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London vs New York Money wise

lifeofpurpose's picture
Rank: Gorilla | 587

I know there has been a lot of discussion about this, but what is the difference in income between both cities after taxes? How about for the long run, do VPs bring in more in London than in NY? Is it hard for someone who studied in a top Uni in the UK to get a job in NY right after finishing a master degree, or is that only possible after having some years of experience?

London vs. New York Cost of Living Differentials

WSO users have strong opinions about the differences between London and NYC including:

  • Payscale is essentially the same
  • London can be more expensive than NYC
  • Rent is expensive in both cities
  • Effective tax rate may be a bit lower in London than in NYC

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Comments (202)

Jun 7, 2007

what extra $$ in London are you referring to ? Far as I know, the payscale is pretty much the same. So is the cost of living .. in fact, from my own experience, London is actually more expensive than NYC (at least in dollar terms).

Jun 7, 2007

Why should anyone be willing to work in NY, if he can a chance to work in London? Definitely, there are places where IBD jobs pay higher than London (after tax), but it is not the case with NY. Given that NY is anyway gradually losing ground to London in terms of being a "world financial center", we have even less reason for such a move or even a consideration. Probably, if you are US citizen, you might be willing to work in your home country, but for everybody else choice of London over NY should be rather natural

Jun 7, 2007

"So is the cost of living "

London is much more expensive than nyc. almost twice.

Jun 7, 2007
Jimbo:

"So is the cost of living "

London is much more expensive than nyc. almost twice.

Like I said, from my own experience London is more expensive.

In terms of London being a bigger financial center than New York, that's going a bit too far .... sure NYC is loosing some ground, but lets not take a yard when given an inch here.

Jun 7, 2007

Twice is a significant overestimation, Jimbo, with all due respect.
Besides, there are plenty of cities in the world (outside USA), where investment banks pay the same gross salary as in New York, or a bit higher. Gross of taxes bonuses are also often higher than in New York due to higher per capita profits investment banks derived in some other countries. And we should notice that in those cities cost of living is lower than in NY (often significantly), and taxes are also lower. Go figure

Jun 7, 2007

sure there are places with lower costs of living...i lived in london and was there for a few weeks recently....my lifestyle would cost me about double there. certainly 1.5 times

Jun 7, 2007

I live in London; the cost of living isn't 2x Manhattan. I'm going to look at a flat in a few days, sharing with 2 other people with 2 balconies, 2 bathrooms and a 10 minute tube ride from work for APS560 per month. I have a friend in Manhattan living a 30 minute commute on the subway to work (East side 90s) paying $1000/month for an apartment sharing with 4 other people, sleeping in a partitioned bedroom. Have another set of friends living in Murray Hill, 5 guys paying $1400/month each. If I were willing to live in a freaking sorority house with 5 girls in London, I'd be paying way less.

With the current exchange rate, I will be making much more money than I would in NYC.

Jun 7, 2007

while we're going with the anecdotes...i went for dinner in london, two of us, mexican place near covent garden had fajitas and a beer and the meal come to 42 pounds...80 bux...same think in nyc would've been 40 bux.

Jun 7, 2007
Jimbo:

while we're going with the anecdotes...i went for dinner in london, two of us, mexican place near covent garden had fajitas and a beer and the meal come to 42 pounds...80 bux...same think in nyc would've been 40 bux.

Covent Garden is an overpriced tourist trap. Rent is by far anyone's largest expenditure for month, and you can take a glance through www.gumtree.com to see what people are paying for flats. It's not more than New York, trust me.

Jun 7, 2007

Ivan, Ivan, Ivan, how you amuse me. London more a "world financial center" than New York? This isn't the 1700's my man. Perhaps what you meant was a "world dental care center"?

Jun 7, 2007
bankerspi314:

Ivan, Ivan, Ivan, how you amuse me. London more a "world financial center" than New York? This isn't the 1700's my man. Perhaps what you meant was a "world dental care center"?

don't rule london out yet.

for FX and for structured business, it is most definitely the center. or maybe that should be centre.

Jun 7, 2007

It may be our European "propaganda", but I've heard many people believe London is becoming (if it isn't already) a larger financial centre than NY. This has been written about in the FT, amongst other sources. But as I'm sure we'll all aware, we can't believe everything we read in the papers.

Jun 7, 2007

Of course, with regards to NY vs London comparison, US or UK forum readers are biased. But those who are neither from US nor from UK are not biased in this particular question.

Jun 7, 2007

Here's a more specific question. For a given level, say 1st yr analyst or 1st yr associate, what are the base salaries in London? So if in the US it's about 60K and 95K, respectively, what is the standard level in London?

Jun 7, 2007

for associates it's 60k pounds...but 95k goes farther in new york.

Jun 7, 2007

Then NY definitely seems like a better deal from a pay perspective. $95k in NYC is quite a bit better than $118k in London.

Although I spent a while in London last summer and I noticed that my main non-rent expenditure (i.e. alcohol) was actually not too badly priced. I thought it would be twice as expensive, but it ended up being fairly close to New York. A number of pubs I went to were charging 3 quid for a beer (both in Central London and in Canary Wharf), which is pretty much what a standard bar in NYC would charge. Then the clubs were charging maybe 4-5 quid, which is about the same or slightly higher than at a club in NYC. That somewhat offset the pain of the more expensive food over there....

Jun 7, 2007

Why is that? I can understand FX but not structured products. Greater growth opportunities abroad pull London into play, but it seems like more of the existing market is in the US. I'm only going on my internship last summer, but our london desk seemed much smaller than our nyc desk and our global desk heads were in nyc. Can you explain further Jimbo?

Jun 7, 2007

Structured product distribution is much stronger in Europe, where the investors are generally more sophisticated (especially in the retail space) and also less constrained by accounting considerations. So corporates can hedge their rate exposure via fairly exotic structures that US corps cant use. And retail will take real risk in their fixed income investments and dont shy away from introducing unusual conditions that US investors wouldn't care for.

The regulatory environment in london is easier in general...

flows off structured desks will be large drivers of the bond and rate market in general. they already dominate in europe. todays massive sell-off was exacerbated by flows from structured desks.

Jun 7, 2007

An additional consideration is that the UK effective tax rate is probably lower than in NY if you take advantage of some of the tax sheltering opportunities available. For example, as a non UK citizen in the UK, the days you work abroad are tax free for the first 3 years as long as your salary is paid offshore. Further, you can contribute up to GBP 215k per year into the UK equivalent of a 401k, providing an enormous tax savings given a top bracket tax rate of 40%. This is compared to a $15-20k limit in the US.

About rents, they are probably higher in London but not by that much. Nice 2 bedroom apartments in nice areas like Notting Hill, Holland Park, Victoria, and even South Kensington can be found for $3000-4500 per month.

Oct 17, 2007

-

Jun 8, 2007

Re: base salaries in London. From some recent recruiting activities I have the following to offer:

An1 - APS36-40k [straight out of uni]
An2 - APS42 - 48k
An3 - APS50 - 55k
Ass1 - APS58 - 60k
Ass2 .....gets a bit blurry from here (less data points)
Ass3 APS65k - 80k

bonuses 100% from An3 for sure.....

Jun 9, 2007
livingthedream:

Re: base salaries in London. From some recent recruiting activities I have the following to offer:

An1 - APS36-40k [straight out of uni]
An2 - APS42 - 48k
An3 - APS50 - 55k
Ass1 - APS58 - 60k
Ass2 .....gets a bit blurry from here (less data points)
Ass3 APS65k - 80k

bonuses 100% from An3 for sure.....

Apparently 1st year analysts were taking home APS55-60K last year all in.

Jun 9, 2007
fp175:
livingthedream:

Re: base salaries in London. From some recent recruiting activities I have the following to offer:

An1 - APS36-40k [straight out of uni]
An2 - APS42 - 48k
An3 - APS50 - 55k
Ass1 - APS58 - 60k
Ass2 .....gets a bit blurry from here (less data points)
Ass3 APS65k - 80k

bonuses 100% from An3 for sure.....

Apparently 1st year analysts were taking home APS55-60K last year all in.

That's including bonus. APS36-40k is just base.

Oct 17, 2007

the universe has no center...

=========================================
We are excited to formally extend to you an offer to join Bank of Ameria

Oct 17, 2007
PiperJaffrayChiang:

the universe has no center...

Why is this guy still here? I thought he was banned.

"Whenever I'm about to do something, I think, 'Would an idiot do that?' And if they would, I do NOT do that thing."
-Dwight Schrute, "The Office"-

Oct 17, 2007

..dubai world baby

I'm making it up as I go along.

Oct 17, 2007

I thought it was Athens

"What we can, we must; and because we can, we must"

Oct 17, 2007

Center > Centre

Oct 17, 2007

I was about to ask everyones 2 cents on that also.

What do you guys think the increase in Bonus tax will do to London in terms of being a global banking center? So far 2 Bankers have moved to Manhattan and one has moved from Manhattan to Chicago. It will be interesting to see how many people will stay in London with their bonuses taking a 20% hit and the city being so much more expensive than NYC.

Oct 17, 2007

Moscow will rule all soon - you will see! :D

Oct 17, 2007

no way. Have you seen whag the uk govt is doing to banks? They won't overtake nyc.

Oct 17, 2007
fhurricane:

no way. Have you seen whag the uk govt is doing to banks? They won't overtake nyc.

Some of the articles I've posted below also touch on the social and cultural differences between the two cities. I love both; the only thing I don't like is New York's dirty Subway. Which city do you prefer? Why?
Clothing Deals

Oct 17, 2007

I think London has many more emerging markets-focused shops, something NY sorely lacks, which should hold them in good stead going forward. As far as lifestyle differences, I'm sure others can chime in but I wouldn't live/work in London to be honest.

Oct 17, 2007

London's burning, London's burning.
Fetch the engines, fetch the engines.
Fire fire, Fire Fire!
Pour on water, pour on water.
London's burning, London's burning.

Oct 17, 2007

hahaha...what a joke. Feasibly, london could never be the center, mainly because of their reluctance to accept the euro currency, and their unfavorable laws and taxes rules. This has made it more and more uninviting for foreign companys and investors. However, London will always be the financial center of the european continent, mainly because of their english language, which makes it the easiest and inviting place for foreigners to do business in the european continent.

Second, as far as what city is best, new york wins without a doubt. New york is center of everything. period. I can't believe there is even a debate. Just take a look at our city skyline if you are wondering how business is doing, regardless of the temporary crisis.

London...bad weather, bad food. overpriced everything....a perfect recipe for unhappiness. need i say more?
however, Brits don't be too sad, because the one thing that London as well as every other european country has is a long rich history. something america can never change or acquire.

Oct 17, 2007
welcome2nyc:

Second, as far as what city is best, new york wins without a doubt. New york is center of everything. period. I can't believe there is even a debate. Just take a look at our city skyline if you are wondering how business is doing, regardless of the temporary crisis.

That may be true, for now. But exactly how long did it take Dubai to have sky-scrappers shoot up ? (I know it is a different situation since there was nothing there and a lot of oil money, my point is it's not exactly hard to get sky scrappers). Plus, if you read the articles I linked you to above, they make reference to the recent sky-scrapper boom in London. These are Sky-scrappers that will be far newer and more modern than their new York counterparts. So that may be a non- argument.

I remember reading somewhere, I cannot remember where exactly at the moment, that London's deal flow recently eclipsed New York's for a year or something. It sounded very fishy and incorrect to me, since it was on some board and all, but you know more about that than I. But if true, couldn't that be indicative of a shift towards England?

Oct 17, 2007
welcome2nyc:

Feasibly, london could never be the center, mainly because of their reluctance to accept the euro currency

Actually, I think thats an enabler. Care to explain why yo think its such a barrier?

Oct 17, 2007
welcome2nyc:

hahaha...what a joke. Feasibly, london could never be the center, mainly because of their reluctance to accept the euro currency, and their unfavorable laws and taxes rules. This has made it more and more uninviting for foreign companys and investors. However, London will always be the financial center of the european continent, mainly because of their english language, which makes it the easiest and inviting place for foreigners to do business in the european continent.

Second, as far as what city is best, new york wins without a doubt. New york is center of everything. period. I can't believe there is even a debate. Just take a look at our city skyline if you are wondering how business is doing, regardless of the temporary crisis.

London...bad weather, bad food. overpriced everything....a perfect recipe for unhappiness. need i say more?
however, Brits don't be too sad, because the one thing that London as well as every other european country has is a long rich history. something america can never change or acquire.

Great argument: "New york is center of everything. period. I can't believe there is even a debate. Just take a look at our city skyline if you are wondering how business is doing, regardless of the temporary crisis."

Bad food in London? Are you kidding me? And why would the UK not belonging to the euro zone affect London's deal throughput?

As another poster said, London has a broader transactional scope (emerging markets: CEE, Africa, Middle East) and is geographically advantaged in cross-continental deals. But I do believe the bonus tax and the UK's general stance on banking will change its relative status in the world, with Asia gaining the financial infrastructure to lead its own deals.

Oct 17, 2007

Why would the UK want to adopt the Euro, an inferior currency to the pound. Look at what the Euro has done to European nations such as Greece and Spain. Last time I checked, the GBP was still superior than the USD.

The USA has a national debt of $17 trillion making it the most indebted country in the world.

Only Manhattan has the glitz and glimmer of NYC, go a little further out from the center and you'll really see the scale of the problem. NYC suburbs have worse slums than most third world countries. You call London overpriced? You have to pay to enter national galleries and museums that re supposed to be free to the public like they are in London. New York is tormented by natural disasters every year whereas London never sees them. The weather in London is much more stable. London has the better shopping district - it has selfridges, the best department store in the world, and John Lewis.London has a much larger variety of foods, Indian, Thai, Chinese, Italian, not to mention a thousand years of British culture and history.

Oct 17, 2007

Say what you like about London, but one thing London certainly does have is an abundance of great tasting food. I'm fat, I should know. Thanks to the large number of Indian, Pakistani, Turkish, and other immigrants, London's food scene is extremely metropolitan. I grew up in Asia so I think I have a good sense of what real Indian and other ethnic food should taste like; the Indian food in London far outstrips anything I've tasted in America. Plus there is the whole, Paris-is-right-next-door, thing: some of the best restaurants in the world are only a train ride away.

Culturally, in London you're surrounded by history, that may or may not be your cup-of-tea. I find it rather fascinating but that's just me. To me though, the main attraction of London is its cleanliness; that's not something I can say about New York. I have an obsession with cleanliness, which is why I love Singapore so much, and I just feel that Londoners take care of their city more than New Yorkers do. Again, most people don't care about something that minor. But I really do feel like the Subway is a stain on New York's reputation. It's dirty and seemingly lacks any of the technological innovations of the past decade. For instance, it would be nice to have one of those clock things that told you how long you have to wait until the next train arrived.

But on the other side of the coin, New York seems so much more lively. From Broadway to the Bronx, you can just feel the energy of the place. I love the go-getter, Type-A personalities that seem to dominate New York. Though these type of people also exist in London, I just feel it is more intense in New York. The clubbing and dinning scene in New York also seems to trump London. Nothing annoys me more than fake-ass British, "gangsters" thinking that their little pocket knives intimidate me, or anyone else for that matter. British street culture seems to be a carbon copy of American culture in some respects, with a slight British tang to everything.

Finally, New York seems less racist. As an African American, this matters to me. Yes, I cannot get taxis to stop for me in New York just like any other black guy (even though they do stop for me in London); I still feel that, on the whole, race is less of an issue in New York than it is in London. I am less conscious of being black in New York than I am when I am in London, mostly due to the recent immigrants bringing their racist garbage along with them from wherever they came from. Londoners who have lived there for a while seem like completely decent people. While most Londoners may pretend race is not an issue and smile to your face, I still get this odd sense of their being an undercurrent of racism in England that is far greater than that in the US. Just look at the British National Parties meteoric rise if you're looking for proof of the silent minorities deep seated racism. Remember, England never had a civil rights movement in the way we did.

    • 1
Oct 17, 2007
monyet:

For instance, it would be nice to have one of those clock things that told you how long you have to wait until the next train arrived.
.

Completely agree with you here. NYC's subways system is pathetic compared to the Tube.

Oct 17, 2007

I beg to differ, as I have lived in London, and in the US.In Race isn't that big of a deal from my experience, but there are always going to be exceptions. London is great for EMEA ops, but as a European citizen, I wouldn't not like to live in London due to the taxes and such, I guess its just from my bad experience in the past (My father, was a senior exec in the netherlands, i saw him fall into a 60 - 52% income tax bracket). EU is tough when it comes to taxes

Oct 17, 2007

Watch out for Shanghai.

Oct 17, 2007

Love the profile pic

Reality hits you hard, bro...

Oct 17, 2007
monyet:

But I'm curios, do you guys believe that this is, or will be, the case? Does New York have any other competitors? Could Beijing be the new big thing? Singapore? Shanghai? Hong Kong? Has excessive regulation, as Mr. Bloomberg suggests, been the primary cause of New York's decline?

I have no doubt Asian economies will drive economic growth globally for some time to come. But if "excessive regulation" is the cause of the problem I cant see how Asian countries are going to be a better environment for a financial epicentre?

Also, I dont see Asia as driving innovation in financial services. I see Asian economies as very active, but generally followers of the west when it comes to corporate finance.

Oct 17, 2007

Just to be clear, how many of you have lived and worked in both London and New York?

How many of you have lived and worked in either city?

And more to the point, how many of you have been to both cities?

I have lived and worked in both cities, and there isn't much of a difference. Both London and New York are fantastic cities--probably the best the world has to offer. London is more cosmopolitan than New York (which has a far larger percentage of Americans in the city than London has of Brits).

I have a hard time believing that New York is LESS RACIST than London. Some native Londoners (quickly becoming a minority in the city) dislike the fact that their city is so heavily populated by foreigners that British culture is smothered into nothing. In London, it's not a racist thing--it's a (justifiably) xenophobic thing. Brits dislike the French and Germans far more than they have a problem with West African migrants.

I don't give a shit about shows, but London has just as many as New York if that's your thing.

And anyone that says London has 'bad food' and that it's 'so expensive' has clearly only ever been there as a tourist. I am in New York today, but am flying back to London this weekend. London probably has cheaper rent for a better quality apartment. When the exchange rate is around here (about 1.60 against the USD), London is cheaper than New York.

If cable is trading at 2, then London is expensive for American tourists. And here's a newsflash: all major cities are going to be 'expensive' on a student's budget. If your only experience in Europe was a backpacking trip that took you from London to Prague, of course Prague is going to seem cheap. That would be like going from New York to Cleveland (except Cleveland sucks).

Anyway, the point is: most of you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Oct 17, 2007
brotherbear:

Anyway, the point is: most of you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Amen!!!

I also lived in both cities, and I agree with all the points that have been raised by the poster above. Both cities have their advantages/disadvantages...

Oct 17, 2007

Great thread.
For a more 'scientific' look at the issue, check out this website: http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/world2008t.html
I actually think London could have made a stronger case for center of the universe back before things hit the fan in 07-08. If you look at S&T salaries over there during the boom period, things got absolutely ridiculous, particularly in exotic credit. Things are looking pretty grim for banks over there now and the bonus tax just makes things worse.

However, from a purely cultural standpoint, I don't think either city can step with Paris. As far as food goes, Paris beats NY and absolutely buries London. Paris is still the fashion capital of the world and it doesn't take much more than a walk down a busy street in all three cities to figure that one out. And when it comes to art, I don't even know where to begin.

Oct 17, 2007

British women can't cook to save their lives.

Question answered.

Oct 17, 2007

Meh, as long as they are good in bed, I don't really care.
I grew up in Italy, I can cook for myself perfectly fine.

Oct 17, 2007
AssociateGuerilla:

British women can't cook to save their lives.

Question answered.

best answer in all of WSO

Oct 17, 2007

And there's no question London chicks are hotter on average than their NY counterparts.

Oct 17, 2007
maxc:

And there's no question London chicks are hotter on average than their NY counterparts.

Is this a joke? Britain has the ugliest women in Europe, hands down. Among the worst in the western world I'd say.

I'll add I've lived and worked in both NYC and London.

Oct 17, 2007

Go in to all the banks websites and read where their respective head quarters are located.....
In NEW YORK until that is changed NYC will always be the investment banking hub of this world.

And who ever said Russia, please do yourself a favor and get a life!

Oct 17, 2007

NYC weather >>>> London weather

American football + baseball + basketball >>>>> cricket + soccer

American TV >>>> UK TV

Otherwise its about the same if you can get used to the accent.

Oct 17, 2007

I think it's a tug of war thing. But, lets remember this, those English guys initiated the capital markets game. They are seasoned, well experienced players too. NYC without a doubt took the game to a larger playing field. .Let's see what the future holds.
www.moneyhawker.com

Oct 17, 2007

well i think the best way to resolve this argument is simple.....weather. something you can't change or doesn't alter. weather in london is absolutely horrible, not to mention due to its northern locale it experiences much shorter days especially in the winter, when the sun sets around 4pm!! combine this with lack of sunshine and tons and tons of rain. Who wants to go out to a bar, restaurant, museum, or even the office when the weather is bad???? not new yorkers!

in new york, when it rains, or its a shitty day, I sit inside all day. Londoners don't have this luxury, or else they would be prisoners of their homes. Go to a bar/restaurant in new york on a rainy or shitty night, it will be almost empty, because days like this don't happen often. My friend had is birthday party planned at a bar in new york on this one night, it oddly started to pouring rain...so he canceled and rescheduled the party! This is because even though we do receive rain, it is usually very brief and not very often. The sun comes back out quickly, when its cold in the winter....its always still sunny. I was in london for an extended period of time and it was the most depressing time ever, I never wanted to leave my bed.

New yorkers get four distinct seasons, ask anyone what fall is like in new york, or the hot summer nights where we go to roof top lounges overlooking the skylines or outdoor concerts, or seeing central park covered in snow in winter. But regardless of the season the sun shines all year long, the days in the winter get shorter, but not nearly as short as uk. I've been to london in both winter and summer, both times were cold, dreary, with no sunshine. Most brits don't even have air-conditioners.

bottom line, weather = happiness, it doesn't matter what restaurant, museum you have, or how much you earn. Weather changes your mood, motivation, and optimism in everything you do. Maybe british people don't think sunshine is necessary to enjoy the city life, but when they start waking up every morning to sunshine, i think their opinion and outlook on their lifestyle will change really quick! sorry brits, but this battle isn't one you stand a chance at winning.

Oct 17, 2007
welcome2nyc:

well i think the best way to resolve this argument is simple.....weather. something you can't change or doesn't alter. weather in london is absolutely horrible, not to mention due to its northern locale it experiences much shorter days especially in the winter, when the sun sets around 4pm!! combine this with lack of sunshine and tons and tons of rain. Who wants to go out to a bar, restaurant, museum, or even the office when the weather is bad???? not new yorkers!

in new york, when it rains, or its a shitty day, I sit inside all day. Londoners don't have this luxury, or else they would be prisoners of their homes. Go to a bar/restaurant in new york on a rainy or shitty night, it will be almost empty, because days like this don't happen often. My friend had is birthday party planned at a bar in new york on this one night, it oddly started to pouring rain...so he canceled and rescheduled the party! This is because even though we do receive rain, it is usually very brief and not very often. The sun comes back out quickly, when its cold in the winter....its always still sunny. I was in london for an extended period of time and it was the most depressing time ever, I never wanted to leave my bed.

New yorkers get four distinct seasons, ask anyone what fall is like in new york, or the hot summer nights where we go to roof top lounges overlooking the skylines or outdoor concerts, or seeing central park covered in snow in winter. But regardless of the season the sun shines all year long, the days in the winter get shorter, but not nearly as short as uk. I've been to london in both winter and summer, both times were cold, dreary, with no sunshine. Most brits don't even have air-conditioners.

bottom line, weather = happiness, it doesn't matter what restaurant, museum you have, or how much you earn. Weather changes your mood, motivation, and optimism in everything you do. Maybe british people don't think sunshine is necessary to enjoy the city life, but when they start waking up every morning to sunshine, i think their opinion and outlook on their lifestyle will change really quick! sorry brits, but this battle isn't one you stand a chance at winning.

If weather is the most important criteria, then L.A. and San Diego would be the best cities to live in.

Oct 17, 2007

also....
london and new york differ much in the their mentalities. Londoners like to embrace their past and history. While new yorkers embrace change and reinvention. This makes it very adaptable to the changing world.

This can be easily recognized by our architecture, new yorkers have no hard feelings about tearing down buildings to build something new. People live in ultra-modern glass houses, that are right next door to a 1920's cast iron building. Many old buildings have incredibly different interiors.

...Restaurants/bars will close down their businesses often when their business is still doing well, just because they want to be remembered for being great, not for their slow decline and bancruptcy, this has been the case for many famous new york restaurants such as le cirque, lounges, such as bungalow 8. There is a different sense of pride in the art of running a restaurant/bar/lounge/or any other business, its not just about the money, its about reinventing something or someplace, somebody.
and speaking of food, such as london's indian restaurants, brits have created a whole new version of indian food which can't be compared to authentic indian food (i am indian and would know). Very much like New york pizza can't be compared to authentic italian pizza you would find in naples. both are good, but they aren't meant for comparison.
.....but I will add that new york is known for reinventing food, the restaurants and lounges/bars that become popular are ones that complete change peoples knowledge of food/atmosphere. fusion restaurants, and chefs that take a traditional food and completely reinvent it. While there are places where you can get authentic this or that, that is not what makes food great in new york. Nobody in new york brags about authenticity, that is another way of saying old and boring to us. My opinion of london is that there are alot of restaurants, but they all compete to serve very similar food....something that just isn't done in new york. In london you can walk down a street of indian restaurants, and they all have the same ten dishes on their menu....that would never happen in nyc. For example, the past indian restaurants in new york that have become wildly popular are ones that completely surprised even me, where you leave the restaurants amazed at how the chef could imagine combining such ingredients,....like pineapple tandoori, or whatever. A popular club called BED, was among the first to serve drinks in "bedrooms" with sheets and blankets, this is an example what new yorkers love.
Nightclubs/lounges only stay in business for a year, sometimes two. A club that was popular 4 months ago, will be old news today. .....its constant reinvention.

As far as diversity, american citizens are a population of immigrants. (less than 1-2% are native americans). So essential we are a nation of internationals. Most americans you will meet in new york may be american citizens, but their roots & culture to their home country is still strongly represented, and the culture of new york embraces the diversity.

moral of the story, new york is a city of change, we don't pride ourselves on the oldest this or that, quite the opposite than london. this is why it is the most opportune place for all things in the world, where people can come and not be afraid to do/create something new, great, unique, world-changing.

Oct 17, 2007

Great post Welcome2NYC,

I just wish New York would take some of that innovative spirit you were talking about and apply it to their damn old, grimy, and technologically deficient subway system. For all of its archaic architecture above ground, London is the more modern city below it.

Does anyone know why NYC has such a crappy subway? Aren't taxes in Manhattan high enough already? I'd assume the city could afford to reform their subway like just about every single other modern city in Europe. If Bloomberg is the stud-of-a-mayor that everyone says he is, then why hasn't he managed to fix the subway system?

Oct 17, 2007
monyet:

Great post Welcome2NYC,

I just wish New York would take some of that innovative spirit you were talking about and apply it to their damn old, grimy, and technologically deficient subway system. For all of its archaic architecture above ground, London is the more modern city below it.

Does anyone know why NYC has such a crappy subway? Aren't taxes in Manhattan high enough already? I'd assume the city could afford to reform their subway like just about every single other modern city in Europe. If Bloomberg is the stud-of-a-mayor that everyone says he is, then why hasn't he managed to fix the subway system?

the costs of running a mass transit system are huge. They're incredibly capital intensive. In fact every single mass transit system in the country is subsisdized heavily--- they're money losing operations. take a peek at the NYS and NYC budget and you'll see why they aren't dumping cash into a system that's actually on time, relatively clean, and relatively cheap vs other sytems.

The green line that services wall street and the UES is actually not bad at all.. Not sure if you're looking for a bar car and a masseuse but it fits me just fine. If you're jumping on the train to the BX or deep bklyn then I see your complaints.

Oct 17, 2007

you know. i used to complain about nyc's subways too when in london, but after you live there or visited enough you realize that the tube has its faults as well - no bloody a/c in th the miserable heat of summer and its frequently shut down on the w/e when you least expect it for "maintenance", forcibly rearranging your schedule. and lets not forget how the tube hijacks visitors wallets on ticket pricing vs nyc. quite frankly, a/c trumps a time schedule in my book. it would be nice to have the boards in nyc, but youre often not waiting too long for the subway anyway. and the only time the subway is infrequent is in the dead of night after you get back from the bar when, oh look at that, the tube is shut down and you have to get a black cab that costs like 5 pounds before you even leave the dang block. hmmm.

Oct 17, 2007

From a European standpoint, many analysts think that it will be the end of the London supremacy over NYC on the financial scene. London may quickly bear the brunt of many taxes which will deeply affect the attractiveness of the place, even though it'll remain the most attratictive place in Europe far from Paris or Milan.

Whether it's wrong or not, for us, NYC remains a kind of utopia and we think that's in fact quite normal that this place is getting its first place back. There, we are talking in terms of prestige, but it seems that if you want to earn big bucks, you should definitely fly away from London and NYC to settle in HK and Singapore, above all for S&T.

As far as I'm concerned, I see around me many people thinking about going to Asia to protect their assets and to avoid the taxes implemented in Europe, all the more since bank confidentiality may not last long even for HWNI. I really think that our future is no longer in the western world.

Oct 17, 2007

People often talk about Asia being the next big thing, but how long do you think it will take for it to actually make the to become the center of the financial world? I suppose what I'm asking is: how long will it take until the top target kids consider a HK BB job as more prestigious than a BB New York or London gig? Will China always remain the middle kingdom: taking resources from Africa and other places, turning them into goods, and selling them in the West, or will it become something more and actually begin to drive innovation?

I wish Thomas Friedman secretly had a WSO account and commented on this stuff.

Oct 17, 2007

I think Chinese market is also a competitive economy in the world. But UK have better chances over other. expanding in UK or doing business in UK is just going wider and broader in terms of profitability. It doesn't matter that it is new york or Landon. The fact is that UK is the leading economic power and has better chances to expand business even in other European countries. Thanks for this raising this nice discussion question. For help regarding business locations and investing in UK. you can visit:
Choosing a business location

Oct 17, 2007

I see no reason for this thread when it's filled with such immense ignorance and prejudice.

Oct 17, 2007
PorcineAviation:

I see no reason for this thread when it's filled with such immense ignorance and prejudice.

Then educate us if we are ignorant, and chide us if we are prejudiced. But add something to the conversation instead of writing a one-liner when no one even knows who or what are you talking about precisely.

I, for one, think that this topic is very relevant. Furthermore, I feel that there have been some very constructive comments on this thread; some were frivolous, but this is a thread on the Internet, such things are to be expected. You're entitled to your opinions though, but that doesn't mean that we will respect them.

Oct 17, 2007

I've heard a lot of people say that London will soon be the center of the trading universe. That's because the time difference between London, the US, and Asia, allows London to interact with both the Asian and American markets. NY is almost exactly 12 hours apart from Asia and so that makes it unfeasible. Do you think there is any merit to any of this?

Oct 17, 2007

Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.----William Shakespeare

Oct 17, 2007

^ thats just stupid.... take a look at the skyline of shanghai or hk u moron

Oct 17, 2007
Oct 17, 2007

What time do the bars close in London ?

Oct 17, 2007

Good thing about London is you could go dining in Paris for a weekend, or clubbing in Munich or Amsterdam. That's got to be a huge plus.

Plus, in London the buildings are either very new or very old (both of which make for a very classy city), New York seems to have too little of both, it is stuffed with the crap in the middle (though they are a lot of exceptions).

Just my 2 cents.

Oct 17, 2007

more expensive cars on the streets of london

Oct 17, 2007

I can't believe that a place as civilized as England still has royalty. Like, how do you justify such a massive expense for... nothing in return? Fucking barbarians...

Oct 17, 2007
bic:

I can't believe that a place as civilized as England still has royalty. Like, how do you justify such a massive expense for... nothing in return? Fucking barbarians...

I've always wondered the same thing. These are the most expensive people on welfare anywhere.

Oct 17, 2007

You can't even technically own land in England unless you've been knighted. Your family can just rent it for like 199 years.

What is that shit?

And what the hell is knighting? Queen thinks you're a swell chap, taps you on the shoulder with the sword (how does she even lift one), and now you're a fucking demigod? Who gives a shit if the queen thinks you're a swell lad? She's just some spoiled old bitch.

And what's up with going by a handful of names, England? Pick a fucking name.

Oct 17, 2007

Neither, we all know deep down that bankers create no real value. If you want to name a city that will be the center of the world for the foreseeable future. Look no further than the San Fran metro.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Oct 17, 2007
heister:

Neither, we all know deep down that bankers create no real value. If you want to name a city that will be the center of the world for the foreseeable future. Look no further than the San Fran metro.

Until it sinks or breaks off along the San Andreas Fault and floats off into the sunset lolol

Oct 17, 2007

Not that I'm defending feudalism, but all that stuff made sense back then. And stripping everything the monarchy had away the way the French did isn't necessarily fairer. Those kings fought for that stuff the way anyone would if property rights weren't better defined. Not all land of French nobility was confiscated, most of it was sold because they couldn't make money off peasants anymore.

It blows my mind the whole leasehold thing is still allowed but it's really an extension of big landlords never having sold their property.

Jun 9, 2007

How are the taxes in London and Hong Kong, for U.S. Citizens, compared to NY?

Oct 17, 2007

i guess u will be taxed by uk AND by us

    • 1
Oct 17, 2007

You'll only be taxed by Uncle Sam if your pay goes above a certain limit... I think it's around 90k? Can't remember offhand. Anything above that will be doubly taxed.

Get a return offer for London, then either ask to transfer to NYC. If they can't make that fly, then use your offer as leverage to get another NYC offer.

Oct 17, 2007
yourdreamtheater:

You'll only be taxed by Uncle Sam if your pay goes above a certain limit... I think it's around 90k? Can't remember offhand. Anything above that will be doubly taxed.

Get a return offer for London, then either ask to transfer to NYC. If they can't make that fly, then use your offer as leverage to get another NYC offer.

That's correct..it's 90k on april 15th exchange rate

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

    • 1
Oct 17, 2007

No double taxation. If you pay more in UK taxes than your US federal tax rate would indicate, then you don't pay any US taxes. If US taxes are higher (unlikely, for someone in the UK) then you can deduct foreign taxes as a tax credit against your US taxes payable.

Oct 17, 2007

Don't let an offer slip through your fingers because you don't like the location. Especially in this market.

Oct 17, 2007

Choosing NY v London over pay is pretty silly brother. If that's really the biggest factor driving your choice, then I feel sorry for you my aspie bro.

Oct 17, 2007

The top tax rate in the UK is 40% right now (50% rate was suspended for now), you would be getting taxed more in NYC (fed + state + city). As far as the 90k thing, even if you were to make more there are plenty of ways to offset that and not have to pay.

Oct 17, 2007
GoodBread:

The top tax rate in the UK is 40% right now (50% rate was suspended for now), you would be getting taxed more in NYC (fed + state + city). As far as the 90k thing, even if you were to make more there are plenty of ways to offset that and not have to pay.

It's 45%

Oct 17, 2007
GoodBread:

The top tax rate in the UK is 40% right now (50% rate was suspended for now), you would be getting taxed more in NYC (fed + state + city). As far as the 90k thing, even if you were to make more there are plenty of ways to offset that and not have to pay.

I think London tax rate is higher post tax and NI contributions

Oct 17, 2007

The 45% will be in force in 2013 for those making over 150k. I guess the difference when taking NI into consideration depends on whether you would get health insurance in the US.

Oct 17, 2007

One significant difference I've heard is that London has more of a direct-promote culture (Analyst to Associate) than the US, which relies heavily on business-school for career advancement, for the most part. Keep that in mind; if you're set on banking, there may be an additional benefit to working in London; people seem to view it as more of a career than in the US -- where it's just a "job" and people often leave after two years.

(Granted, this may only be anecdotal from people I met at my bank, but take it for what it's worth).

Oct 17, 2007
twp392:

One significant difference I've heard is that London has more of a direct-promote culture (Analyst to Associate) than the US, which relies heavily on business-school for career advancement, for the most part. Keep that in mind; if you're set on banking, there may be an additional benefit to working in London; people seem to view it as more of a career than in the US -- where it's just a "job" and people often leave after two years.

(Granted, this may only be anecdotal from people I met at my bank, but take it for what it's worth).

this is correct, a decent amt of ppl tend leave banking as well but its alot less structured (people tend to leave to buyside anytime between finishing their 2nd analyst year and their 2nd associate year)

Oct 17, 2007

Thanks folks. I appreciate all the input. After reading your comments, I would happily accept an offer from DB (London), where I am due to intern this summer. Last year they had a 100% conversion rate, hope it works out for me this year too.

Jun 9, 2007

ETR in London is more like 27%

First yr all-in at BB was 73K last yr and this was not top of the range

Oct 17, 2007

Theoretically, yes, but London ibanking does have its differences. However:

  1. London cost of living
  2. London cost of living
  3. Furtehr prospects after analyst level are not as good for someone from the US in London - whilst there are senior US bankers, as an American, you won't be covring clients in say, italy, germany, scandinavia, etc, which at many banks are covered out of London. Also, it will be hard to cover the brits as they like to work with their own. So, the opportunities will be in pure product focus (and thus high cyclicality risk) or industry.

"Living the dream 24/7 on http://theallnighter.blogspot.com"

"LIVING THE DREAM 24/7 ON http://THEALLNIGHTER.BLOGSPOT.COM"

Oct 17, 2007
AllNighter:

Theoretically, yes, but London ibanking does have its differences. However:

  1. London cost of living
  2. London cost of living
  3. Furtehr prospects after analyst level are not as good for someone from the US in London - whilst there are senior US bankers, as an American, you won't be covring clients in say, italy, germany, scandinavia, etc, which at many banks are covered out of London. Also, it will be hard to cover the brits as they like to work with their own. So, the opportunities will be in pure product focus (and thus high cyclicality risk) or industry.

"Living the dream 24/7 on http://theallnighter.blogspot.com"

This is absolute horseshit.

Oct 17, 2007

If you're American, you'll find it damn near impossible to get in on a grad programme in London, as EU citizens have priority in hiring decisions. It's not impossible, but I don't believe there are any Americans in my analyst programme.

London's cost of living is not higher, or at least not when total compensation is considered. #3 is, as ratul says, absolute horseshit.

Oct 17, 2007

it all comes down to the bank/team you are in. It's not like ldn bankers finish at 8. Somewhat agree with point 3 from above; it's not impossible, an MD in my old team was Canadian, but you need to buy into the lifestyle here which some people (not only Americans) are unwilling to do.

Oct 17, 2007

There's a lot of it here.

  1. The cost of rent is not significantly higher in London than it is in New York--at the level of income you'll have as an analyst. I'm considering a place in a 3-bed flat in one of the most expensive areas of London, paying APS680/month. If you do the calculation of 30% of post-tax income as a standard for rent, I'm well under.
  2. I think I'm the only American in my analyst class, but that's just because I went to a British university for a masters. If you do that, there is no barrier to getting an offer; the Visa rules make sure that international students in the UK don't get screwed like they do in the US.
  3. There are definitely Americans at the MD level an above at a number of offices in London, including at European banks. Don't think there's any discrimination except for language skills--but an American with fluent French would be fine obviously.
  4. I don't get why prospective bankers are so bad at price comparison. Do you not compare the prices of Polo in the US to the UK. Polo is an AMERICAN company; it's an import here so obviously it costs more.

I do my groceries in London and get a loaf of bread for 45p; I wouldn't even trust a loaf of bread under $1.20 in the States. Box of cereal here: APS1.50. You know it's pretty much $4.50 for a box of cereal in the States unless you get that shit in a bag. A Chinese takeaway is APS5; that's $10-12 in Manhattan.

Oct 17, 2007
fp175:

1. The cost of rent is not significantly higher in London than it is in New York--at the level of income you'll have as an analyst. I'm considering a place in a 3-bed flat in one of the most expensive areas of London, paying APS680/month. If you do the calculation of 30% of post-tax income as a standard for rent, I'm well under.

Which area is this? Mayfair? I'm looking at a 1-bedroom flat right now and am having trouble finding anything bigger than 500 sq. ft. in Marylebone/ St. John's Wood/ Mayfair for less than GBP 300 per week. That's GBP 1,300 per month for a 1-bedroom. Most of the ppl I know are paying simmilar or more for very small places. You must be meaning GBP 680 per week for a 3 bedroom, not per month, right? Head of our London office currently rents a 3-bedroom townhouse (approx. 2,300 sq. ft.) for GBP 3,000 per week (that's GBP 13,000 per month). It's in Mayfair.

London is more expensive than NYC...100%. Just look at the Mercer cost-of-living report. According to this report, London is 26.3% more expensive, on average. London was #5 last year and Mercer says "steep property rental costs, together with the strengthening of the GBP compared to USD, have contributed to the city's high ranking". London is most certainly more expensive than NYC.

Oct 17, 2007

But I said at an analysts income and standard of living, it's not. At least not in my experience (and I'm from the NYC area).

Oct 17, 2007

i believe your APS680 number, given that it's around two grand for all three of you a month before utilities (i assume). Cheap, but believable. What I've GOT to call you on is the APS5 chinese takeaway?!! Not going to happen, even if it is from the always frightening "meat" section

Oct 17, 2007

So are you guys saying that its not wise for an American to go to LSE MSc Acc&Fin (for example) in hopes of getting recruited for an Analyst position because they prefer EU over US?

Would it be better to do something like MSF vanderbilt / villanova?

Obviously LSE is better for London and the us universities for NYC, but assuming you don't care where you are placed as long as you get the job, which gives you better chances?

Oct 17, 2007

If you're speaking about masters, regardless of LSE v Vanderbilt program disparity, in Europe in general masters are more typical, so it will be easier to recruit out of one.

Jun 11, 2007

I imagine the hours are better in London than NYC. The hussle hear is worst in the world.

Jun 12, 2007

you imagine wrong...

Oct 17, 2007

London is the source of financial nonsense:

-JPM Whale Loss
-UBS Rogue Trader
-Barclays LIBOR Scandal

'Merica fuck yeah!

-Pip Pip Cheerio

    • 1
Oct 17, 2007

Love me my 'Murica but also love me my England

Oct 17, 2007

^ KingHasReturned??? patriotsfan1??? What is going on here?????

Oct 17, 2007
turtles:

^ KingHasReturned??? patriotsfan1??? What is going on here?????

Obviously referring to the one and only real king...The King...Elvis

Oct 17, 2007

^Were you knighted by Her Majesty?

Oct 17, 2007

But really, does anyone know the differences between the two?

Oct 17, 2007

NYC is slightly higher all-in at both at my previous bank and my current fund (for analysts / pre-MBA associates respectively) at the current exchange rate, and having lived in both places London probably has a slightly higher cost of living, however the difference isn't big enough for it to be a deciding factor in choosing between the two

Oct 17, 2007

Alright thanks! As far as vacation time goes Europe usually gets a little more right?

Oct 17, 2007

Yeah there seems to be more flex on holidays in Europe - at my previous bank (top 3 BB) you generally were only able to take a week or max two a year + possibly a day or two around Thanksgiving/Christmas in the NY office, whereas in Europe you might be able to take two weeks in summer, a week and a bit over Christmas, a week over Easter, the UK bank holiday weekends, and so on

One other consideration though is that NYC is a 24-hour city whereas London is definitely not. You're going to want to be able to do something when you get out of work at 2am on a Thursday - NYC is much better suited to the IB analyst lifestyle in my opinion

If you want to to the buyside thing you're also much better off doing your analyst stint in NYC - the industry is more mature and there are more junior roles, the recruiting process is more structured and predictable (in London/Europe language plays a huge part and some funds prefer 3-5 years of experience rather than just the two), and it seems to be much easier to go from banking in NYC to PE in London than vice versa

Oct 17, 2007

And would the abroad US income tax make it pointless to work in London? But thanks for your help guys!

Oct 17, 2007

If you work abroad you can be exempt up to $96k from US income taxes. Taxing earnings while working abroad is still shit but that's another story.

Anyway,adding to the vacation thing. 20 government mandated holidays (most companies give 25) + 8 public holidays + bullshit days made up that year (Queen's Jubilee, Royal Wedding, etc.). When I tell my friends back home this, they feel like tards for working like a dog. You often get paid a bit less on average compared to US in return. But at least you're in a prime location and HAVE TIME to visit the rest of Europe.

Downside, this places closes shop at like 12AM and its a bitch to find a gym that stays open past 10PM. Good luck doing fuck all after 6PM on Sunday. Though the club scene is pretty good and stays open pretty late.

I would personally choose London over NYC for the most part. Hence why I'm here.

But honestly,

LA > London
Fuck both cites.

Oct 17, 2007

London higher rent costs which feeds into making stuff at retail stores more expensive. + all american brands are at least 20% more expensive, someone along the chain just ignores the currency rate.

London has less crime,better schools and no tea party.

Oct 17, 2007

Thanks so much this has really helped. One more question- whats recruiting like for London firms from top ten US undergrad universities?

Oct 17, 2007

I have seen several US grads and experienced professionals in London, some say they just applied via the corp. website, others went through recruiters ie MorganMcKinley and such.

Overall I have lived in both places and I think it is slightly more expensive in London, depending on individual lifestyle. Rent is a joke in both places but I think you get better quality/more value in NYC.

however if you have spent your entire life in the US so far an overseas experience will add a lot to your life, so you should try that.

Oct 17, 2007

Alright cool you guys have really helped. Any suggestions on where to look for some sort of finance internship in London for after freshman year in a US college (pretty elite university). I realize it probably won't be in IB, but if its something in the finance/business field it sounds good to me.

Oct 17, 2007

I just did some more research and found that most EU/London banks do Spring->SA->Full Time. Kind of getting ahead of myself here I guess but I won't really be able to do a spring internship because I'd still be in school (get out in mid May) but any ideas on where to look for some sorta London finance internship for after freshman year?

Jun 11, 2007

I have worked at both places. Stay in NY, if you are serious about learning something. London is way too slow. If you want a good work-life balance (and poorer on a net-net basis), London is the way to go.

Oct 17, 2007

I've heard both hours and pay (mostly due to exchange rate) are better in London vs. NYC...any comments?

Oct 17, 2007

Pay is never better in the UK than in the US, due to their socialistic govts and their laziness. The same goes for France, etc.

However, that article makes a strong point. Oh well, every Rome has its downfall.

Oct 17, 2007
danbush is a XXX:

Pay is never better in the UK than in the US, due to their socialistic govts and their laziness. The same goes for France, etc.

Have you ever been to London??

Their "socialism" does not fix your wages (it can however affect to your disposable income)

Oct 17, 2007
danbush is a XXX:

Pay is never better in the UK than in the US, due to their socialistic govts and their laziness. The same goes for France, etc.

danbush is a XXX:

i'm pretty uneducated.

Big surprise there mate

CRE NERD

Oct 17, 2007

The question remains though, "who is our nero that fiddled while Rome burned...?"

Oct 17, 2007
wallstwhiz:

The question remains though, "who is our nero that fiddled while Rome burned...?"

i'm pretty uneducated. What does that mean?

Oct 17, 2007
wallstwhiz:

The question remains though, "who is our nero that fiddled while Rome burned...?"

Most likely "G is for W." Our darling George Bush

Oct 17, 2007

I blame Sarbanes & Oxley

CRE NERD

Oct 17, 2007
Swede:

I blame Sarbanes & Oxley

Circle gets the square. Couldn't agree more with this point.

Oct 17, 2007

danbush, re ur comment on UK, France etc, see your post above: "i'm pretty uneducated"

Oct 17, 2007

At a 40% marginal rate, taxes in London are in line with NY and can actually be lower than NY if you're not a UK citizen and you travel. Days worked outside the UK are tax free for your first 3 years provided you are paid into an offshore account.

Oct 17, 2007

I think the biggest question we're all wondering is if London wins the smackdown, are we Americans going to lose our banking jobs.

Oct 17, 2007

It's not so much about who wins or if NYers will lose their jobs. NY will remain stable, London is booming (on the back of non-Americas growth).

Oct 17, 2007

With such a weak dollar, any pay is better than NYC.

Oct 17, 2007

To the OP, I read that Fortune article a while back :)

New York always has the US market behind it, even though right now it isn't the hottest thing on earth, I still have strong faith in it.
However, the rest of the world is booming, and it seems that they prefer to IPO in the City as opposed to the Street.
The UK has less restriction (as somebody mentioned with S&O), and danbush the UK is in no way as retarded as France when it comes to taxes (I am originally from France, I would know ;)
So London vs New York? London will experience tremendous growth I believe. I read an article about MS moving all their main guys to the London office. New York won't grow as much but will stay just as strong.

I like to think of London as Microsoft in the 90s, and New York as Microsoft in the 00s.

I want to work now! No, really. I want those 100+ hours/week.

Jun 12, 2007

That's bullshit about London being too slow and not being able to learn as much as NY. You must be joking.

Oct 17, 2007

Maldives

Oct 17, 2007

I don't know what it is, but the women there are much more attractive.

"Cut the burger into thirds, place it on the fries, roll one up homey..." - Epic Meal Time

Oct 17, 2007

When me was a yoot me used to smoke the weed in a rizla....

now me is a man me lick a cocaine in a pipe ya'.....

Hardcore....

London is the financial centre of the world....

NYC doesn't have the history and is always going to be nouveau riche

From the ghetto....

Oct 17, 2007

What ghetto might that be?

Oct 17, 2007

i agree with vadremc wholeheartedly.

Oct 17, 2007

Even with my citizenship, nationality, and family, I'd still choose London. One of my hopes for the future will is to be wealthy enough to live in other countries for a few years (and not need to work as a waiter to get by). It would be nice to start this dream at 21 instead of 45.

Oct 17, 2007
  1. New York
  2. Paris
  3. San Francisco/Berlin
  4. Tokyo/Hong Kong
Oct 17, 2007
MisterXYZ:

2. New York
3. Paris
4. San Francisco/Berlin
5. Tokyo/Hong Kong

question was too imprecise, so I ranked them ;-)

Oct 17, 2007

NYC, without a doubt.

Oct 17, 2007

NYC hands down

Oct 17, 2007

london

Oct 17, 2007

but it depends what you like.

In NYC on average compared to London, your deals will be much more US based. In London almost all of the deals are international.

London as a banking community is much more diverse with people from all over the planet.

What kind of travel do you like to do? Do you prefer a weekend in Vegas or skiing in Vermont, or do you prefer Stockholm and skiing in Switzerland?

In regards to the women, since someone brought it up. English women are on average UGLY! I'd take the New York girls over them. BUT London has a saving grace: TONS of Eastern Europeans, TONS of them! And they blow New York out of the water.

I am American, but I can't imagine living anywhere but Europe. But that's just me. Other people prefer life in NYC, which is fine too.

Oct 17, 2007

They are both large metro cities that offer everything and smell like urine.

Oct 17, 2007

I would probably take London, but being an American that's not an option. The foreign accents make it great.

Oct 17, 2007

What kind of taxes do you pay as an American working/living in London?

Oct 17, 2007

I need to figure that out, as thanks to the crappy dollar, I'll be making way over the $80,000 minimum for paying for US taxes as an expat :(

Oct 17, 2007

NYC without a doubt

Oct 17, 2007

I'd think this would have to be a pretty large part of the decision.

Oct 17, 2007

new york has much better food, women, is more affordable, and of course, american football.

london has better....summer weather, is close to europe, and has better indian food. can't think of any other areas where london beats nyc as a city.

Oct 17, 2007

I've lived in both cities, New York by far. London is a great place to spend a good 6months but New York is the best place to LIVE.

Oct 17, 2007

By the way, aren't the salary levels in London significantly higher than those in a New York (in IBs, that is)?

Oct 17, 2007
Ivan:

By the way, aren't the salary levels in London significantly higher than those in a New York (in IBs, that is)?

Not really. Many of the BB's give out bonuses globally in dollar terms.

But that's really not the point anyway. London salaries seem higher because of the wacky exchange rate, but in terms of cost of living it's fairly comparable, if not worse in London.

London is by far the most expensive city in the world.

Oct 17, 2007

I think if you're american, it would be good to spend your first few years in Europe - international experience is highly prized these days, and can be a welcome change. For the europeans, new york would be a great experience.

Oct 17, 2007

I'll be looking at APS700-800 per month in rent for a flat to share with 2-3 people. My banker friends in Manhattan are paying $1400/month and sharing with 5 people. If I was willing to live in a sorority house with 5 other girls here, I'd be paying max APS500/month.

Oct 17, 2007

what kind of ghetto lives are you guys living. seriously, unless you are swimming in debt or have dependents you shouldn't live with 3-5 people who are not related to you!

you are adults, not children!

Oct 17, 2007

haha they're living in a huge Murray Hill apartment

But would you agree that a 2 bedroom in Midtown for less than $2000/month per person, furnished, and brand new, is tough to find? And with the current exchange rate, London analysts are starting on $80K base.

Oct 17, 2007

i don't care how big it is. don't you guys like your privacy? i mean, imagine trying to sit down with your girlfriend and have a private conversation in an apartment with 5 guys. its just not on.

Oct 17, 2007

nyc definitely. london's great for international experience. but don't be surprised if you don't get picked for those client meetings/projects because you didn't have the language skills. some clients still prefer having meetings in their own language.

Jun 12, 2007

Very simple.

If you wanna hang out with douchebag arrogant pricks, then go to London. If you wanna hang out with douchebag arrogant pricks who also happen to like the Yankees, then move to New York

London
Curry
skanky women
booze everywhere and anywhere (I like the nearby bar that is in the basement of a church)
Every girl loves the American accent
You don't have to live in Jersey

New York
Not so fucking poncy
not so much emphasis on shining your shoes
Real sports and television (5 channels unless you get 'sky' - fuck sky. I want 300 channels stretch.

Oct 17, 2007
Oct 17, 2007
Comment

"The Chinese use two brush strokes to write the word 'crisis.' One brush stroke stands for danger; the other for opportunity. In a crisis, be aware of the danger--but recognize the opportunity."

Oct 17, 2007
Oct 17, 2007
Comment

"The Chinese use two brush strokes to write the word 'crisis.' One brush stroke stands for danger; the other for opportunity. In a crisis, be aware of the danger--but recognize the opportunity."

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