NON-TARGET RECRUITING PROCESS
I am a currently a junior at a complete non-target in NY with literally 0 alumni working in Investment Banking. I have done a few boutique IB internships and about to start a PE internship in the spring. I have used the search function a million times to find quality information about non-target recruiting. Obviously, there is no OCR, so there are 2 options: networking and online applications. What I am mostly confused about is that I have heard people on WSO mention phrases like non-core recruiting, non-core superday, non-target superday.... Does that mean that non-targets only are only compared to other non-targets and don't actually directly complete with target students? My initial understanding was that non-targets directly compete with students coming from target schools and it's just that it's super hard to land an interview being at a non-target. Please, shed some light on this issue.
Bump!
Yes, BB/EB banks tend to hold Super Days separately for "core" and "non-core" students. However, the term "non-core" can be misleading because a lot of semi-target schools fall under non-core for a lot of the BB/EB banks.
So while you might not be competing directly with someone from Wharton or Harvard, you might find yourself interviewing with a group of candidates from UC Berkeley, UMich, NYU Stern, etc.
However, if you're on an accelerated recruiting cycle, you'll be more likely to interview with "core" students. At least based off my personal experiences.
Thanks. Do you mind explaining what an accelerated recruiting is?
Accelerated recruiting is where banks recruit students extremely early on in the recruiting cycle (October, November, early December). The idea for target students is to 1) Lock the prime candidates in early to an offer and 2) give students who study abroad their second semester Junior year the opportunity to interview in person.
However, like anonguytoibd said, if you network hard enough, some MD's can place you into the accelerated recruiting process even as a non-core student. Also, offer rates for accelerated recruiting tend to be higher because there are so many open SA slots to fill.
Also, yes non-core recruiting tends to come after core recruiting, but most, if not all banks can't fill their summer analyst class strictly through the core recruiting cycle.
UCB, Stern and UMich are most definitely "target" schools- banks that regularly recruit from Wharton or Harvard also almost always regularly recruit from these schools. That being said I went through non-core recruiting for two bulge brackets and the majority of my competition was from a non-target university (liberal arts schools, random state schools, etc.)
How did you land interviews if you don't mind sharing and what do you wish you knew or should have done before going into recruiting process?
"Target" and "Non-Target" can be very misleading. Just because a school is a good school doesn't make it a target school, a target school is for a bank that formally recruits there in a predictable manner. Even if you are at an Ivy, your school can be considered a non-target to a bank if that doesn't form part of their recruiting core.
This is even more noticeable at EB's where they want kids to hit the ground running so they are more likely to recruit at places like Georgetown or UMich or even Indiana Kelley over Liberal Arts programs.
This also means that just because a school is "non-target" doesn't mean it is a bad school or you will be at a disadvantage if you end up going to a superday for that bank.
Here is an example. Dartmouth is a great school, no one would say Dartmouth is a non-target or even a semi-target in the way many people on these boards throw the term around. However, for Moelis, which does not do OCR at Dartmouth, Dartmouth would be a non-target. Or Harvard, also obviously a "target" school, for whatever that silly term entails, is a non-target for PWP and Yale is a non-target for Evercore.
People use the term target and non-target far too liberally.
Confusion Regarding Recruiting Timeline for Non Targets (Originally Posted: 11/29/2014)
Been going through a bunch of older posts to try to find the answer to this but I am still a bit unclear. It sounds like a lot of people on this site have already been going through interviews and even getting offers at some BB's as well as other banks. A lot of you have said that a lot of this is due to accelerated recruiting, which is only done for specific groups of people, whereas regular recruiting usually picks up in January/February. Are non-targets considered one of these special groups who must go through accelerated recruiting or does our process usually not begin until the new year as well? Maybe some of you who have gone through this process in the past from non-targets could talk about when you first heard back and had your interview process begin.
My understanding is that non-core recruiting occurs because banks were not able to fill in all the spots with candidates from target schools and summer analysts?
gonna try bumping this. Would really appreciate some insight
bump
Things in general are accelerated this year although many places are still following the regular timeline. It is entirely bank dependant. Many places are also doing superdays in January even if they do superdays now because they are keeping spots open.
I wouldn't panic, but as a nontarget I would say this month things are really kicking off and to start reaching out to contacts and figure out what's going on for each bank.
People here say Jan/Feb which might be true but the reason OCR happens that late for targets is because the school makes them agree to a recruiting policy and picks the date to protect students. So they might keep a certain amount of spots open every year for a target school and it doesn't matter when they recruit whereas the nontarget pool is just one huge pool and your competing with everyone.
Intel: Jefferies is already done with nontargets, Moelis was accelerated and is over, CS is doing superdays for nontarges next week?, and UBS is in the process of doing screens
Networking is key - shoot those cold-emails, brush up on behavioral's and technical's. You'd be amazed by how helpful some people in the industry really are.
What was recruiting like at your non-target? (Originally Posted: 11/30/2011)
Since someone asked this before in a different forum about UConn, I figured I'd just copypaste and start it off.. what firms recruited at your school and what for?
a LOT of love from the GE FMP.. i was first hire at my firm (which you can deduce from my posts or just PM me) and then puleld in a good chunk of uconn kids(and others) through the years... i guess RBS is now recruiting for front office meanwhile we have some alumni connects at bank of montreal/Credit Suisse(lot of uconn at CS -- all things relative of course haha)/calyon/Morgan Stanley and others too im sure but mostly back office otherwise... United Technologies and the hartford/aetna/cigna/etc insurance companies all recruit for their rotational leadership programs... dowling and partners pull from uconn (well regarded boutique insurance industry ER shop in farmington)... UBS did PWM through UConn, and we have Factset/Bloomberg positions as well as some good IBM Corp fin roles
Not a complete non-target but the school is consistently referred to as a non target on this board: OCI: JPM: S&T, Asset Management, Public finance, tech Barcap: equity research, IBD BOA/ML: S&T, Capital Markets Deutsche Bank: Finance, Risk Goldman: Controllers, Ops MS: BRM Cain Brothers/Leerink Swan: IBD Blackrock: PAG Prudential: Research, PCG Big 4: Basically everything but Deloitte consulting. A few other random firms for S&T A few random PE firms Lots of F500 finance programs (JnJ, JP morgan Chase, Moody's, Merck, NYSE, ...)
Postings & phone interviews but no OCR: Goldman: IBD, S&T, AM, Research Barcap: Operations, Technology MS: Research Blackrock: PMG, RQA, GCG Jefferies: IBD Blackstone: Random BO + real estate positions SIG: Trading, Research, Tech, Operations Credit Suisse: Ops A few random boutiques for IBD
I go on WSO on a daily basis and I've never heard users talk about Lehigh but by looking at your list I'd def say it's a Semi-Target / Borderline Target. How's it a complete non target if you have IBD and S&T? A non-target would be something like:
MS: Ops Citi: Controllers JPMC: Ops, Finance GE: FMP A lot of random no name firms hiring for Ops
(AKA my school...sigh*)
It was worthless.
I'd say I went to something a little more non-target than Uconn (I think we talked about it before).
The only finance related recruiting done @ my campus was Morgan Stanely/Northwestern Mutual PWM. Actually, they didn't even brand it as PWM.. they simply branded it as Insurance sales (which that's what it really is). At least they were honest. Shit bags. Metlife also joined the shit party.
There might have possible been some corps there recruiting for F500 Corp Finance, but that wasn't something I was remotely interested in at the time
I remember walking out of so many job fairs feeling so pissed that I actually paid over 20k/yr to attend.
howsabout you go ahead and name your school since u only have 14 posts and no ones gonna track you down?> lol
Lehigh
i dont want this to be OH WE HAD THESE COMPANIES LOL but actually names so people who are looking for transfers or who are starting college will have an idea what to target if theyre at the schools
Completely Non-Exisitent...and when you throw in an old woman who ran campus recruiting who didnt even know how to breathe, it was an extreme struggle to do anything
Most of the BBs come to my school for technology analyst positions, and a few alumni at Goldman are doing OCR for S&T internships. They only took one kid from my school last summer, though. Nomura also did FT for their global markets program. Once I start a MSF I feel like I'll stand a chance with BBs or top MM firms...just gotta keep going around official channels and keep building that resume until then
There wasn't even BO recruitment at my school
There was 1 spot for a J.P Morgan personal banking position and a couple of those insurance sales garbage
I posted a screenshot of a job posting a while back. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity of becoming a babysitter
http://i.imgur.com/BwdbZ.png
I wnt to the backoffice of non targets.
Not too sure on the rankings outside of UT, Rice, and A&M, maybe something like
SMU/TCU/Baylor Tech/UH/UTD
I'm not even a top 10 in state school
FUCK
I ended up interviewing for an internship that has a possibility of converting to FT because I still havent had a FT interview
Well from what I have seen
Goldman- S&T, IBD, ER KeyBanc- IBD, ER, S&T Barcap- IBD Morgan Stanley- IBD, S&T Blair- everything Credit S.- IBD JPM- IBD, ER, Back office A bunch of boutiques
Also a lot of F500, Nationwide, Cardinal Health, GE, P&G, Fith Third, JPM (columbus)
^^^Um, so you went to a target then?
nope OSU (we are ranked 11 in finance, but a non-target), , I go there, they pick 1 kid for lots of these positions. Except Goldman(S&T, ER, IBD), JPM (all IBD this year) took 3 kids. Also KeyBanc took like 15 kids.
wat
Where would University of Illinois fall in this list? What is recruiting like there?
What is the point of this if you're not going to name your school.
Seriously
There is no recruiting at Pitt for companies outside of Pittsburgh.
i posted my school and list
We had a posting for a forklift operator position a while back, but they were only recruiting for second (5pm - 1am) and third shift (1am-9am). Rumor has it that you had to go to a target to get an interview for first shift.
we had abercrombie come recruit store managers
what's this recruitment thing all of you speak off?
my school had the "fend off for youself" mentality....i think the starbucks downstairs recruited
Piper Jaffray just posted internships on our OCR system. I'm honestly shocked.
University of Houston
I'm too lazy to look up the OCR. I can tell you that finance wise it's pretty shitty.
JPMorgan just posted some back office internships. Shit's getting crrazzzy up in here
Any advice for a non target with a low (3.0) gpa? I consider my school relatively non target but I know of a handful of people who got SA positions the last couple of years. Thanks!
Non-target recruiting process - full-time (Originally Posted: 05/07/2007)
From what I've read it seems that the top consulting firms are even more selective than the top I-banks - "more selective" in that they will only look at core schools, no if ands or buts. There was one thread touching on the topic way back, but is there ANY recruiting process for non-target schools? There are plenty of examples of non-targets in banking but is there a decent amount in consulting as well? Thanks.
With a GPA like that, you have to have outstanding networking skills to convince banks that you know your stuff and try to get relevant experience through any boutique internships. The formula is the same for everybody. In your case, online applications won't work for sure. Know your story, fairly amount of technicals and hit LinkedIn. That's my advice.
I go to a non-target school. McKinsey & Bain both recruit at my school, in small numbers. They have a very quiet and selective recruiting process.
None of the other firms in the top 10 come to our school. If you go further down the list, we get pretty heavy recruiting from the likes of Deloitte, IBM GS, etc because of our strong engineering program.
I would assume networking would be the way to go. If anyone could shed some more light on this, it would be appreciated.
I go to a non target as well. The top tiers have little or no presence on campus, while the 2nd tier have a large presence. Accenture, Capgemini, Deloitte, IBM, and a host of others on the same level are all over the place. The top levels all do grassroots recruiting, basically getting a list of top candidates from a dean of the business school or a finance/accounting professor, and then contacting those students privately and individually. In my experience that's also generally how the BB's recruit.
Non-target recruiting (Originally Posted: 05/07/2007)
This is a reply to the previous thread; for technical reasons it won't let me answer to the thread itself (says I need to log in, then refuses to let me log in) so I'm doing it like this.
Consulting firms will give you much less of a look if you are from a non-target than IB. Part of it is because they take fewer people out of undergrad, partly their intern numbers are much smaller than IB and partly because consulting is about selling the quality of their people directly to clients and name-brand (i.e. target) schools are very important for that. For example, it is much easier to say "oh my analyst went to Harvard" than "oh he was top 10% of honors program at Florida".
From personal experience my class was me and EVERY single other kid was from Columbia. As you can guess I am in the New York office. The Boston office is all Harvard, SF is all Stanford etc. The hiring is extremely local for whatever reason unless you have a compelling reason to go to another office.
My advice if you come from a non-target is network like no other; I know it probably sounds cliched by now but that is your only chance. Not much else to really say.
Yeah I heard consulting is very regional. On the Bain website, you can see alumni from various schools and the offices they're in. It's pretty much all by region, like you said.
How do you guys "network like crazy"?
My circle of friends and family have no links to McKinsey, Bain, or BCG so I use Linkedin, Doostang, and Delta Sigma Pi's networking site to try to get informational interviews.
Results: 1 phone call with an associate consultant at BCG.
I need a more effective way of getting in touch with McKinseyites because I want to interview for their Dubai office internship next summer!
anyone have any ideas on the best way to get to know consultants at McKinsey, Bain, BCG if you don't have any alumni/friend/family connections?
i was really lucky cause a guy on BW Forum could give me some contacts for my country's McK and BCG consultants. the dude is an INSEAD student. well he did not enroll finally, but was accepted. so he gave me 2 BCG and 2 McK emails. i did not know these ppl before but wrote them an email saying that i am reall interested in their firm and i would be really happy if i could meet them for an informal chat. ( i am still undergrad...not even close to graduating)result: 1 dude called me back from BCG and i met him...really nice dude and helpful...have not talked to him after that. 1 guy called me back from McK too and we met also. i occasionally write him a mail for advise and he always writes back the same day. he told me to feel free to bug him. i was really lucky to get another McK contact from a different source. this is a dude from my country working in NYC (McK). he called me from NYC to chat and was also very helpful and we occasionaly email each other. he then gave me another contact of an analyst currently on an MBA in the USA, sponsored by the Firm. surprise, surprise...she was also very helpful and we also met when she was back here this winter break...and we occasionally email each other. she even offered me to help me get an internship for the summer at a bank where she has pals. AGAIN: my family has nothing to do with this, they do not even know what McK is. i wanted to meet ppl so bad and i was very lucky. two components of succes=sweat+luck! good luck!!!
I visited a few consulting firms in San Franciso, 80% Stanford grads, followed by Berkeley, then Ivy grads who were from the West Coast and applied to that office. In the UK it's almost completely Oxford and Cambridge, with a small number of LSE graduates.
Very elitist.
IBwannaB is right, you gotta exhaust every possible outlet. Some ideas-
If the guy is senior enough, a good gambit is to ask him for any one younger in the firm, more recently out of school who can give you a better perspective. This has two benefits 1) it stops wasting his time if he is really senior and 2) the junior person likely won't know the relationship you have with the senior guy, just that he asked him to talk to you. As a result he will treat you well and give you attention because you just might be a close family friend.
Now rinse and repeat for Bain and BCG, expanding your search thru linkedin and doostang. As you can see it is a lot of work, but will be worth it...
fp175- it is not necessarily an issue of elitism; if the best students at the best schools want to work for you, why would you make a conscious effort to expand your net and spend more recruiting dollars? Sure, there might be some hidden gem at Univ. of Iowa but much cheaper/quicker/safer to take the 3.9 Physics major from Stanford.
Yeah I agree with you. I'm not bothered because 1) I don't want to be a consultant and 2) I went to one of those universities. But I was just confirming what you said in your first post--they just fill their offices with students from the best university in the area and don't bother much with going outside of that.
Great advice.
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