RBS IBD Full Time vs. GS Research (conditional offer, Start as an PT intern). Both entry level based HK.
Firstly, it is IBD vs. Research. My long term goal is PE or HF.
Secondly, it is Full time vs. Unsecured conditional offer.
Falling into trouble picking up. Any thoughts? Any Strategy I could adopt? How to negociate?
Thanks!!!
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RBS is doing pretty bad recently but I'd still go for it since its guaranteed and IBD.
what if GS is a full time offer, what would u pick up?
Correct if I am wrong, but aren't RBS pulling out of Asia? I think I've read somewhere that they are focusing on core markets (EU and US) and are selling something or other in Asia.
GS isn't renowned for its research, but also, RBS isn't renouned for its IBD (bar DCM)
I've seen people going into HFs with Research backgrounds, but at the end of the day it depends on what you want to do: Research or IBD.
Lorican, you are wrong on this.
RBS is NOT pulling out of Asia. RBS is getting rid of its retail banking branches in Asia (which came with the ABN Amro acquisition) and strengthening its Global Markets & Banking division instead. With that said, the M&A team in HK is very good. They advised on some of the biggest deals in the region such as Rio Tinto and etc.
RBS is not known for its IBD, yes. But ABN Amro was a strong M&A adviser in emerging markets and it was especially strong in Eastern and Central Europe, Asia, Middle East and Australia. Despite what you may hear in news and etc., RBS and ABN Amro synergies seem to be working well. I say go for RBS (HK) IBD. You really won't regret it.
But still, I've had a look at TR and for M&A RBS are 21st for Any Asia (ex-Japan) Involvement Announced, and 21st for completed. They are not in top 10 for Asian debt and neither for Asia ECM.
So other than RBS being a FT offer, I'm not exactly sure what you are basing your recommendation on.
As a side-point, with regards to ABN M&A, after the merger in '07 BarCap poached 40 senior ABM M&A bankers to run it's own division.
Don't think there is a high chance for FT placement for the GS position - I assume you've noticed that - it's explicitly stated in the ad. Are you sure there's a conditional offer? As far as I am concerned the position is just a PT position, with FT placement possible "subjected to business needs".
So why don't treat that as a pure PT internship and take both - of course you better give HR a heads-up..
Just fyi, RBS IBD certainly has not been doing great - my sources suggested they just had another round of cuts in Nov last year. But it'd still be great for you as a new hire - they are somewhat expanding the analyst class. Deal flow might not be comparable to other BBs but you would def be kept busy. Btw, RBS IBD's not gonna pull out from their Asia core markets (except for their retail/commercial banking businesses), which are and will be their core growth engines..They are also non-existent in the US.
P.S. I'm from one of the HK Unis.
Seems you know quite a lot on GS internship, but must not all the ER full time applicants in HK need to go through a pt first? it's true that "depends on the business needs" but how likely?
For the rbs pull out, i'm afraid you're bit of upside down since rbs is pulling our its commercial/retail banking except others instead... the core of rbs in asia is really abn in fact...
are you doing ib in a BB in hk?
"rbs is pulling our its commercial/retail banking except others instead" - I am afraid that's what I meant...
am not...but going to. Anyways congrats and goodluck!
rbs is far from BB.
rbs doesn't pay bonuses i hear but then again ER bonus not so high either
RBS (USA) paid $40K (mid bucket) to its analysts.
RBS (UK) paid 20-40K pounds to its analysts.
I know this for sure. Stop giving away misinformation.
GS obviously has a great name, but when it comes to research, I've gotten the impression they're not quite as strong as in other areas, on a relative basis Little-known Oppenheimer research, for example, is extremely strong in the energy sector (Fadel Gheit) and Barclays has a lot of strengths in fixed income.
Figure out if you like putting together deals or if you like poring over 10Ks and Qs to try and find hidden land-mines or upside. Personally, I would have more fun poring over 10Ks and other financial statements, but I'm a bit of a geek. One other advantage of research (at most banks) is that you work a few less hours than the IBD guys. That said, I'm guessing the workload between GS Research and RBS IBD will be about even- I had a roommate in GS Capital Markets who worked longer hours than one of my friends in IBD at Merrill.
Why does ER work so long hours?
To the original question, I'd prob go with GS since RBS is hurting pretty bad.
It normally doesn't. But everyone at GS works crazy hours. Frankly, if you want any semblance of a life, you probably don't want to work at GS.
I know a guy who did GS research for 2 years and was able to work afterwards at two very large/prestigious HFs in the US - the jump is possible. But he was based in NY.
Tough choice in my opinion.
appreciated your feedback, a director from a HF told me to go to GS ER if full time possible.
I'd rather try my luck with GS first. GS research aint that bad: they were the ones who coined the word brics and honestly, GS is good in almost evthg
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