Penn state vs OSU vs umich !!!!!! BB IBD plz help!!!

gopadub's picture
Rank: Baboon | 167

Hello I am senior in high school in ohio and am looking at smeal as a prospective college for me.
If I would end of going there I would like to join the PSIA and the nittany lion fund. i was wondering thought the website doesnt state how many people get accepted or rejected there. Does anybody have a clue on exactly how competitive it is to get into??
OSU isnt too good of a college in business but it is good enough to have something called the Fishers Futures program for investment banking and I was wondering how competitve that is?
University of Michigan was my first choice but I am not sure if i will be able to get into Ross, and might end up doing economics. If I dont they also have a club called the MIBC (michigan investment banking club) which is ment for all students at university of michigan.

I am looking at all of these as options but I feel as penn states Nittany lion fund isnt soo competitive if you are a freshman interested but if you are a junior then it becomes really hard.

Penn state's nittany lion fund sends 100% of their seniors to wall street, so does OSU fishers futures program, and so does University of Michigan ( even though it was just made 3 years ago)

and of course I am interested in investment banking and then prolly private equity after being an analyst. I have also read Rosenbaum's book: Investment banking ( recommended by the president of the MIBC), this sparked my interest for this career as well.

Thanks for all responses in advance!!

Comments (149)

Nov 20, 2010

Given the three choices: PSU, OSU, and U-Mich

Go to U-Mich

Nov 20, 2010

The fact that I only clicked on this thread because I thought it was going to be about college football should tell you all you need to know about those schools.

That said, the clear choice is UM, by a mile.

Nov 20, 2010

As a Senior Penn Stater (in the Nittany Lion Fund), I can attest to the immense experience you gain in the fund, as well as to the level of preparedness it gives its students for careers on Wall Street. There is no question Ross is more highly-regarded than either of your other choices in terms of reputation, faculty, and most likely curriculum, but the PSIA and NLF organizations make up for where Penn State lacks in these regards.

You had a few questions pertaining to the specific percentages of who gets accepted into the fund. While it varies on the amount of positions they need to fill, of about 300-500 students in PSIA per semester, about 30 percent of the students are ambitious enough to apply to per semester (we select students for the Spring and Summer) of the 100+ students, anywhere from 30-50 get first round interviews involving both behavioral and technical information. Of that selection, around 20 get second round interviews. We probably average slightly higher than 10 per semester, depending on the talent and amount of vacant positions.

The Fund does not discriminate against freshmen who have no/little experience. If you pick up the materially quickly and display a hunger to learn, you would have no problem being competitive as a freshmen. Please feel free to shoot me an email if you have any other questions regarding the NLF, Penn State, or anything else..

Nov 20, 2010

Seeing as I bleed Blue and White, I am biased against the Maize and Blue (I hate you Lloyd Carr, I hope you rot in hell you worthless fucking douche bag! Fuck you and the 2 seconds you added back onto the clock in order to beat us when we went 11-1. Your replacement is just as bad, but not as evil!) and the Scarlet and Grey (If you thought my comments about Lloyd Carr were bad, don't get me started on Coach Sweater Vest!).

That said, if you get into Ross, go for it hands down. If you get into U-Mich, I would try to transfer into Ross. Hands down, that is your best bet. Between Penn State and Ohio State, I warn you that if you do go to Penn State, you will be hated by every single person you know that goes to Ohio State. I know nothing about the Fisher Futures program, but I know about the Nittany Lion Fund. They are hard to break into at all levels and it's a lot of work. I would recommend joining the PSIA off the get go, as that will definitely help your chances of getting into the fund. It is very hard to get into when I was there and not much has changed since I was at State in terms of the competitive nature of the fund. Plus it's a great networking opportunity, and that goes a long way. Couple the PSIA and Smeal Network with one of the largest networks in the nation, and there is a lot of benefit to be had from it.

And yes, for the record, Joe Paterno is god.

Nov 20, 2010

Drex,

I reiterate my point about Paterno. He is god and not even Sweatervest will reach Paterno's mythical 400 win mark.

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Nov 20, 2010

haha thanks a lot guys your feedback is tons better than the feedback I got before on college confidential I really appreciate it !! Thanks a lot and keep them coming!

Nov 20, 2010

I have to completely agree with what the other Penn Staters have said here. As a senior on the Nittany Lion Fund, I can attest to the fact that Penn State definitely has the resources to make you very competitive for the top jobs on Wall Street, provided that you are willing to do the work and network. Fortunately for PSU, having one of the largest alumni bases in the world, really helps you here and you will find that PSU alums are some of the most willing to help and fight for current students at the school in order to arrange office visits, interviews and offer aid during internships and even when working full time. Much of this recent success is due to the Nittany Lion Fund and the reputation it has developed over the past few years, which has led to some increased on campus recruiting, so here is to hoping that momentum continues.

In terms of difficulty in getting into the NLF, it is definitely a competitive process. That being said if you work hard, pick up the material and show a passion and interest in the markets and finance, it is a matter of being able to interview well and getting people to like you in addition to displaying your technical knowledge. While it is a steep learning curve for freshmen, we typically will have 3-4 freshmen come in every year because they put the work in and are clearly bright and humble students. The experiences that you gain in the NLF are unparalleled to many of the experiences I have seen with many of my friends, including the ones at some top targets.

Having decided between PSU and UM myself, I know it is a tough decision to make. Overall, Michigan is definitely a better school, especially if you can get into Ross. However, that is not to say PSU does not provide you everything you need to be successful on Wall Street. I can also say that games in Beaver Stadium blow the Big House out of the water and JoePa >>> RichRod.

In the end, every experience, is what you make of it. I have never regretted my decision to come to PSU and I am extremely appreciative of everything that it has offered me from an educational perspective, while being able to balance it out with having a ton of fun in college. I'll echo the sentiments of my buddy drs5129, so please feel free to reach out to me with any questions about PSU or NLF/PSIA.

Nov 20, 2010

I went to PSU, was not involved with the NLF, and I'd say go to Mich if you're serious about getting into banking and that's all you care about.

PSU is great because the education is pretty solid, you're a number in the majority of your classes so you have to be self-motivated, and the atmosphere is unbelievable (Seriously, Halloween is the greatest holiday in State College.)

You have your whole life to work, if you want to get to Wall Street, you're going to figure out a way to make it happen from wherever you go.

Nov 20, 2010

THE BIG 10 IS GOOD FOR FOOTBALL NOT ACADEMICS.. how about this 3 way tie? who do yal got? wiscy, osu, sparty?

    • 2
Nov 20, 2010

Umich, Penn State and then OSU. U Mich is a great school and Penn State is closer to Philly and NYC and I feel that it has more alumni on the street. Either way all three schools are well known because of their sports programs and you will be able to bond and network a lot easier.

I went to Syracuse and all I do is talk to people about basketball. I think people on this board discount way too much the value you get when you go to a school with a nationally known sports program.

Nov 20, 2010

OSU has a pipeline to P&G, if youre interested in that sorta mediocre midwestern lifestyle

Nov 20, 2010

If you are serious about investment banking, you need to go to Penn State. People that are good at PSU get the best jobs on Wall Street and the alumni force is growing faster than at any school in the university. I'd say being in the Lion Fund... you are going to have a very very high probability to get any interview you want. After the Ivy Leagues, PSU is fast becoming the #2 option.

"You've got to belong to it."

Nov 20, 2010
Balance:

After the Ivy Leagues, PSU is fast becoming the #2 option.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Dude, I don't dislike Penn State, I have some good friends who went there, but please, try not to fuck up kids' lives with advice like that.

    • 1
Nov 21, 2010
drexelalum11:
Balance:

After the Ivy Leagues, PSU is fast becoming the #2 option.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Dude, I don't dislike Penn State, I have some good friends who went there, but please, try not to fuck up kids' lives with advice like that.

He isn't giving bad advice... if you read the journal then you know that Penn State is an excellent recruiting school... bottom line you need to figure out what you really want to do. I am biased but can certainly echo what some of the other Penn Staters have mentioned about the Fund and PSIA. They are phenomenal organizations and our kids make it to the street. The recruiting pipeline we have is strengthening every year but not doing the Fund or PSIA is not going to be an absolute make or break for you getting to the street. I wasn't involved in either organization but landed a BB banking gig, so it's all about perspective and your work ethic. Go where you want to go to school bud, don't try to plan your life out 100%. If you absolutely know that you want to work in IB at 18 years old then God bless you but you've definitely got time to figure it out and you can get to the street from any of these schools.

In terms of school environment I'd say PSU dominates both schools in terms of culture and party scene but again I'm biased.

Don't listen to people that are trying to tell you that PSU or OSU or UM aren't good schools because people on the street respect the Big 10 work ethic that we bring to the table far more than a lot of the "Target school" kids would like you to believe.

Nov 21, 2010

If you get into Ross, this is an easy decision... Ross is almost a target, semi-target at worst.

If you can't get into Ross right away, I'd probably still choose UM and try to transfer in later. Judging by the posts in this thread, it almost seems like it might be easier to transfer into Ross than get into this Nittany fund or whatever. And no matter how good this fund might be, no way can it beat banks coming directly to your school and interviewing kids (which I don't think PSU gets a lot of, but correct me if I'm wrong).

Nov 20, 2010

I see guys That is very convincing..Another factor would be that Econ at umich i have heard has a some peps that go to wall street through alumni and clubs.............
All in all i love the big 10 horray campus feel but penn state = 7 hours away and umich = 2 hours away which I also have to consider i guess, also my gf is interested in Pre Med and umich is A LOT better than penn state in medicine and so is OSU i am preety sure so I still have to see. By the way if I have said any wrong information then please correct me :D !! Thanks a lot guys and keep them coming!!!

Nov 20, 2010
gopadub:

I see guys That is very convincing..Another factor would be that Econ at umich i have heard has a some peps that go to wall street through alumni and clubs.............
All in all i love the big 10 horray campus feel but penn state = 7 hours away and umich = 2 hours away which I also have to consider i guess, also my gf is interested in Pre Med and umich is A LOT better than penn state in medicine and so is OSU i am preety sure so I still have to see. By the way if I have said any wrong information then please correct me :D !! Thanks a lot guys and keep them coming!!!

Yeah, don't base decisions like this on a high school girlfriend.

    • 1
Nov 20, 2010

UMich is a great school, but if you don't go to Ross you will not have an easy road when it comes to recruiting. Kind of like going to NYU and not being in Stern.

Whatever you do, do not factor your GF into things. You are 18, looking to go to school, that chick is going to be long gone bro.

Mich Ross >>> OSU/PSU

OSU/PSU >>>> Mich general

Nov 21, 2010
Anthony .:

UMich is a great school, but if you don't go to Ross you will not have an easy road when it comes to recruiting. Kind of like going to NYU and not being in Stern.

Whatever you do, do not factor your GF into things. You are 18, looking to go to school, that chick is going to be long gone bro.

Mich Ross >>> OSU/PSU

OSU/PSU >>>> Mich general

But it's not like OSU or PSU are getting much OCR anyway, so aren't they pretty much equal to UM outside of Ross in terms of recruiting? But at least at UM, you to have a much larger alumni network.

Nov 20, 2010
downtown22:
Anthony .:

UMich is a great school, but if you don't go to Ross you will not have an easy road when it comes to recruiting. Kind of like going to NYU and not being in Stern.

Whatever you do, do not factor your GF into things. You are 18, looking to go to school, that chick is going to be long gone bro.

Mich Ross >>> OSU/PSU

OSU/PSU >>>> Mich general

But it's not like OSU or PSU are getting much OCR anyway, so aren't they pretty much equal to UM outside of Ross in terms of recruiting? But at least at UM, you to have a much larger alumni network.

Michigan gets great OCR, but Ross kids are going to dominate. I seriously doubt Goldman is coming all the way to Michigan to look at kids who couldn't get into the business school. Hard to shine next to the sun, if you know what I mean.

OSU/PSU have crappy OCR, but strong alumni networks. You can easily network your way into a summer internship if you do well.

I am not saying Michigan sucks at all. What I am saying is that Ross is the true target at Michigan and if you don't get into Ross you will be at a serious disadvantage. Like going to Penn and not being in Wharton.

If you do go to Mich and don't get into Ross make sure you major in something hard. You're going to need to make up for your non Ross-ness.

Nov 23, 2010
Anthony .:

UMich is a great school, but if you don't go to Ross you will not have an easy road when it comes to recruiting. Kind of like going to NYU and not being in Stern.

This is brilliant. I love how hard the kids in CAS try to leverage themselves during our OCR process, knowing full-well that they either didn't know enough about Stern beforehand or chose to apply to an easier school at NYU just to get into NYU.

I clearly don't go to PSU, but I'm from PA and I'd really recommend it if you're looking for a beautiful college experience. Tier 1/top 10 undergrad b-programs are great, but the workload is insane, you're at a similar level of work-life balance you'll experience in IBD, and almost everyone you'll speak to in school shares the common sentiment that we're 'missing out.' If you can't get into Ross, go to PSU. You'll have your whole adult life to work, and if you had the opportunity to couple such tremendous opportunities as PSIA, the NLF, and the single largest alumni network in the country with a tremendous undergrad collegiate experience, why wouldn't you take that?

Nov 21, 2010

As a current Buckeye I can't recommend UM but I can say that IB recruiting at OSU is rough but starting to get better. There is only one BB IBD that recruits on campus and that is for SA only. That being said we are working extremely hard to bring in middle market banks to recruit to try and help make the business school stronger for banking, which has been growing in success recently. PM me if you want some more info.

Nov 21, 2010

Mich by a landslide.

Nov 21, 2010

Ross by 50x.

Nov 20, 2010

Yeah, the girlfriend is only going to ruin your freshman year. If you go to PSU, there's a good chance you'll meet a rich sorority girl anyway.

Nov 21, 2010

What you kids fail to realize is that nothing changes much over the years. Back in 2001 rutgers was talking about a huge move towards getting BB IBD recruiters. Now look where they are. Still ops and back office.

the choice here is obvious. Go to mich and transfer. If you can't do that, you don't have a shot at BB IBD to begin with so don't even worry about it.

Nov 20, 2010

haha thanks idk but I did speak with the president of Michigan's Investment Banking Club and found out that lots of econ majors do get into banking if they network a lot and joining that club might also give me a really nice networking base. I was also thinking about doing the Wall Street Prep progam and becoming certified before college is that possible? I took IB Business and Management and learned some finance and I opened the first investing club in my school district would Ross like that stuff or even Michigan's Investment Banking Club?
Another question I have is that should I minor/double major in psycology at umich or minor/double major in financial math if I also major in econ?
Again guys thanks for all your comments/recommendations I will consider all of them thanks again!!
And keep them coming :D

Nov 21, 2010

Anthony is 100% correct.

Nov 20, 2010

I see so like a double major in like financial math and economics?

Nov 20, 2010

Yeah, Financial Math and Econ sounds good. Engineering, Physics, whatever. Something quant, something challenging. Network hardcore from day 1, try and get a PWM right away to build your resume and when people ask you why you didn't go to Ross tell them you wanted to major in a very quantitative area and felt you could pick up business skills through networking and interning. That will nullify any questions about your non Ross status.

I would probably look into a modeling course after you have an internship or two under your belt. Try and get bloomberg certified from the terminals at Ross. See if you can join Ross clubs, whatever.

This is assuming your can't transfer into Ross. If you can get in I would probably just transfer and get a very high GPA.

Nov 20, 2010

Time to address a great deal of stuff....

nycibd, as to academics, clearly you forget that Northwestern is part of the Big Ten and Minnesota, Wisconsin, Penn State and Ohio State are extremely well funded public research schools and have produced a great deal of research in a wide variety of topics. Oh, and Big Ten sports are always discussed from September to March/April on a regular basis between College Football and College Basketball. As Anthony said, he talks 'Cuse basketball all the time, I talk Penn State Football all the time. Sports programs are a huge common denominator (and now that the Big Ten is entering the Division-1 College Hockey arena, it looks like anyone that went to Harvard, Cornell, Dartmouth and Yale now has a new bunch of non-targets to talk Hockey with) and makes for a great icebreaker. I remember interviewing with a guy who went to USC and he was complaining to me about the same Michigan game I referenced above, before we even got into the bulk of the interview. It definitely helped break the atmosphere a bit since we found commonality in sports. Plus, you never know who you will be working with that knows about college sports or has a kid who is going to a major sports school. One of the MDs I work with, his daughter goes to Michigan State and he and I regularly talk College Football because of this Big Ten commonality.

Balance, I must humbly disagree. It is much harder to get into finance from Penn State than it is if you are at a place like U-Mich. As great of a recruiting base as Penn State has, it hasn't crosses the threshold into mainstream target/semi-target status yet. While there are a few banks that recruit at Penn State, most of the big names don't recruit from Penn State. This is definitely balanced by the alumni network, but from a pure recruitment standpoint, attending Ross or transferring into Ross from another UMich major/school/undeclared status will help more in that regards.

Botique, it's possible to get into IBD from anywhere. I have a friends who I graduated with that work IBDs at places like Stifel, Goldman, JP Morgan and UBS. I've got friends who work for McKinsey, Bain, BCG and Booz Allen. A Well Known school coupled with great academics and a large alumni network can do just as good as coming out from a top school.

Downtown, Penn State has the largest alumni network in the Big Ten and is Top-3 in US by size if I recall correctly, not UMich. Penn State gets a ton of OCR opportunities, although that question is best suited for the guys that currently attend, not an Alumnus like me.

And to the OP, never base your decision on the Girlfriend. You go where you want to and let the rest fall into place accordingly.

Nov 20, 2010

Frieds and anthony thanks for your responses It really helped me understand some things. I hope to do well and I wish you guys all do well too thanks a lot everybody who posted I also understand the Gf portion.I feel like a place like Umich has maybe less alumni base but has a strong quality alumni base. idk. I will work hard regardless to get into Ross or even if not that work on networking and joining those investment banking clubs in UMich or even penn state. Lets just hope some of my amazing activities liek creating business, and the business club in my district helps me get into ross prefered admit that would make life easier lol thanks a lot everybody. and keep them coming !!!!!!!!

Nov 20, 2010

UMich just made a new banking club in 2007 here is the website if u want to check it out

http://www.umich.edu/~mibc/whoAreWe.html

Nov 21, 2010

Randomly seeing a lot of first years coming from PSU. Rumor that GS has penn state as a target school now?

Nov 21, 2010

slowslowquickquick it isn't a rumor GS made us an official target last year i believe... we've placed a bunch of kids at GS both this year and in years prior... all the banks are going to start converting the school to target status in due time... virtually all of our kids who intern get return offers...

Nov 20, 2010

Rufio,

You're missing the point. Having read the journal article already and having graduated from Penn State, I speak from firsthand experience when I say that the article looks at the whole picture and not just banking. Penn State has a major presence in many non-banking fields, however when it comes to recruiting for IBD/Asset Management/PWM Penn State doesn't have the recruiting presence of other schools. I know where I work does not recruit at Penn State for any position and the only Penn Staters I know who work there either had a connection or found a job at my shop by themselves. That's why most of the people here stress it's not what you know but who you know and where you went to school.

Penn State is a phenomenal school, a Top-50 university and a Top-15 public university. I wouldn't trade my four years at University Park (back when Mezzanine was known as The Crowbar and had live bands and great acts 6 nights a week before it was converted to The Cell Block or when the 24 hour late night library used to be on the first floor of Pollock Library and there was an arcade called Playland that is now taken up The Family Clothing Store I believe, or the lingere shop that used to be Omega Bank, or my favorite Pizzeria, Corranados Pizza FKA Goppers Pizza aka The Gop at 114 Hetzel Street, used to be ran by an aging hippy stoner named The Gop and is now ran by his mother since he's in jail, and I can go on with this stuff for ages.) for any other experience in the world. We're not saying that isn't a good place to get an education. What we are saying is that banks tend to be selective in where they recruit, so attending a school that they target would be beneficial for your chances to get the job you want.

We're not saying that work ethic doesn't count for anything. Trust me, I don't discount the Big Ten work ethic and get along better with coworker who come from state schools and major sports schools than I do my Ivy League counterparts. It's not the lower level guys who make the hiring decisions, and as long as you have people at the top who want to keep their selection limited, you have to find your own way regardless of school.

Ultimately it does come down to where the firms target their applicant base. Until Penn State becomes a firm target school, other schools would rank above it if you want to do banking. As I said, I'm a few years out of the undergrad, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but this tends to be the case.

Nov 21, 2010

Frieds, I agree with some of what you said, but I definitely did not miss the point. A lot has changed with the university (as you mentioned) especially in the vein of recruiting. Almost all of the big firms are recruiting at Smeal for internships (FO and BO) and as a current student who just went through the full time recruiting cycle (successfully) I would argue that I have more perspective on this than most.

I didn't say that PSU was a better school for IB recruiting than Ross, though I guarantee our Fund kids smoke candidates from that school in interviews (at least I did and my friends in the Fund who are gainfully employed did). The bottom line is that many people don't want to give our business program the props it deserves for its ability to place kids onto the street. It's getting to a point where firms have are going to have no choice but to actively recruit for all manner of positions from our school because we are that good at what we do. NLF has 100% placement for kids who want street jobs. If you go to PSU and you want to work on the street badly enough you will get an offer somewhere; that's a fact.

Any current student would agree that this is the goal of our business school and one that will be accomplished in the foreseeable future. A paradigm shift is currently being made.

Nov 20, 2010

hmm I see well you both make valid points and I can see both prospectives because this summer I went to Penn state for there stock market madness camp and had fun. Also 3 Nittany lion fund managers where there teaching us things, and they said that the recriuting for the nittany lion fund as a freshman is really interest base and if you communicate that to the recruiters, and also that 3-4 went to goldman and pretty much the rest went to BAC, JPM, and meriil. People tell me that I am ahead but I dont feel like that helps much anywaasy cuz if somebody is even slightly smarter then that takes over interest and passion I feel like. But both are good both have great alumni, great education, great horray big 10 feel, but UMich is 2 hours away and penn state is 7-8 , and penn state costs like 40k a year and umich is 50k, the Investment banking club in UMich is new but still does decently i hear, and I also hear that like 1/2 of the econ students at UMich go into consulting or banking, and JPM likes to recriut some, Citi i hear does and merril and 1 or 2 goldman and some other banks. Guys Please feel free to correct if i am stating my data wrong or agree witht it if i am saying it right. Thanks a lot guys, and keep it coming !!!

Nov 21, 2010

I've never met anyone from PSU or OSU since I've been up here. There are some UM kids though. It has nothing to do with the capability of students because trust me I've worked with people from UM who are much better and more enjoyable than people from Harvard and Yale. It's tough to break into if you dont go to a target. Go to UM it's thr best school of the three academically and I'd imagine socially they are all pretty similar. I don't know anyone who went to Penn State, but have known people who went to the others and had a good time. I also don't understand how kids know they want to do banking before college. My advice is go to the best school that you get into that you would gave a fun time attending. Work hard in school, get good grades, do stupid stuff and don't take yourself too seriously and everything will work out from there.

Nov 20, 2010

haha I understand that point but I am very mature for my age, I feel like I wanna have fun in college, but I also need a path planned out. I do kinda feel out of place because I read the wall street journal and read books on what investment banking is and private equity and things like that and I feel like that is the career for me. I feel like I would like the work. When I tell my friends this they just look at me like wtf hes crazy..... Some people just are haters I guess so I just brush them off ,but I love the stock market and keeping up with it, I love to talk with people I love math so some adults/teachers told me to look at careers in finance and from there I read books and thats how I came up with liking investment banking then maybe after the analyst years private equity. haha I must seem so weird.......

Nov 21, 2010

Just remember one thing; life is about the journey, not just the destination.

I understand you think you've found your calling already but you have no idea how much your life and your perspective on things will change over the next 4 years. College is a completely transformative experience. You wouldn't believe how many people graduate with a completely different degree or career plan then the one they came expecting to leave with. I'd say that is the norm not the exception.

While it's generally been said already in above posts, I'll add my two cents since I am [a proud] Penn State alum. Even as of a few years ago, the business school was getting plenty of the big names coming to recruit for FO banking/trading SA positions (Goldman, Merrill, Bear, Credit Suisse to name a few). So don't think you've shot yourself in the foot for OCR by not attending a target. Besides, we all know OCR isn't the only way to make it happen. Sure, its nice and helpful having everyone come to you when you're at a target but there are plenty of ways to make yourself standout and catch peoples' attention - even when they aren't constantly throwing themselves in your face with networking and recruiting events. I will say that it was a very gratifying experience having to go down the road less traveled and yet still finding the success I was looking for.

I could easily write you a novel about why to go to Penn State and probably add another layer or two of changes to most of the locations Frieds mentioned but we all know like any good Nittany Lion, I'd just be incredibly biased against Ohio State or Michigan. In all seriousness though, the good thing here is that all of the schools you mentioned will give you a great, well rounded, college experience. If in one, two, four years from now you still want to go into banking, I know it sounds cliche, but you will find a way to make it happen no matter where you end up. Will it be easier doing it at Ross? Most likely. Is that the only thing that matters? I don't think so.

My advice, go visit them all if you haven't already and make sure you don't just consider what the school can help you achieve after you leave, but what type of experience you'll get while there.

Nov 20, 2010

well put WxOnWallStreet I like your advice and I will visit all of them and decide. because if i do get in preferd admit i think i will have it nailed down but that is def somethign to look at when deciding between Umich ( not ross) and Penn state smeal and OSU fisher thanks a lot

Nov 21, 2010

I concur with WxOnWallStreet, make the best decision for you at the present taking into account what your interests are but don't get too caught up early on with long term career plans. College is an exciting time and you should enjoy it, savor the moments with friends at parties and enjoy the overall environment to its fullest. As a senior set to graduate in a few short weeks I am trying to soak up all the best I have left before moving to the next milestone.

You'll meet awesome people at any school so make the best choice for you (all Big 10 competitiveness aside the schools you got into are solid schools and you should feel privileged to attend any of them) and don't let others provide too much pressure one way or another. The advice my brother gave me before going to school was this... "Treat school as your full time job during the week. You never have to miss a party... but don't be the first one there and don't be the last one to leave. Learn from others and have an open mind and you'll do fine kid."

Nov 20, 2010

haha thanks i see

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Nov 20, 2010

Not that I speak for WX or Rufio, but I assume that they are similar to me in that questions would not be turned away, if you have any questions don't hesitate to PM any of us about Penn State.

I say this repeatedly but ask questions and PM the poster if you have any concerns. WE don't bite and we're all good about responding. If you have a knowledge base, don't be shy about using it.

Nov 21, 2010
Frieds:

Not that I speak for WX or Rufio, but I assume that they are similar to me in that questions would not be turned away, if you have any questions don't hesitate to PM any of us about Penn State.

I say this repeatedly but ask questions and PM the poster if you have any concerns. WE don't bite and we're all good about responding. If you have a knowledge base, don't be shy about using it.

I'm definitely open to responding to PMs if you have any other questions... I definitely don't bite

Nov 21, 2010

There is no question that Ross is a target.

This is a ridiculous thread.

Nov 20, 2010

This Forum only has room for one Pokemon! Go back to the pond you came from MagicKarp!

We only support Blastoise here!

Nov 20, 2010

If you want to try hard to get into banking, you'll have your best shot with PSU because you'll have the best alumni network of the three campuses and also the best student org of the three campuses. Need I say more? I'm not arguing that Penn State is a better school academically -- but if you are already gung-ho about banking and couldn't get into an Ivy... I think there's an easy case to make for going to Penn State over the others.

If you are nerd and you just want to get into banking with your high GPA, yeah Ross is your best call. If you are a real person and also want to kill it at a BB... the choice is obviously Penn State

"You've got to belong to it."

Nov 21, 2010
Balance:

If you want to try hard to get into banking, you'll have your best shot with PSU because you'll have the best alumni network of the three campuses and also the best student org of the three campuses. Need I say more? I'm not arguing that Penn State is a better school academically -- but if you are already gung-ho about banking and couldn't get into an Ivy... I think there's an easy case to make for going to Penn State over the others.

If you are nerd and you just want to get into banking with your high GPA, yeah Ross is your best call. If you are a real person and also want to kill it at a BB... the choice is obviously Penn State

Yeah, listen to this guy and go to the school where you'll have to work harder to make it into IB... that makes a lot of sense.

Nov 20, 2010

haha i see lol so UMich is a nerd school ? lol cuz i feel they have good quality alumni base

Nov 21, 2010

lol how many PSU grads are in IB @ a BB from last year's class? I have so many high school friends that went to PSU, graduated with 3.8+ GPAs while in the honors college, and never heard a peep from any BBs wrt recruiting. Shit look at where the people @ the top of the business school there are working now. The one guy I know who is in IB @ GS from Penn St. slaved away his entire 4 years more than anybody I know at any school. He could have alternatively gone to Ross or a target and not killed his soul doing death/sweatshop internships all 3 summers to get into IB.

Michigan (Ross) is going to be your best bet if you want to get into high finance. Otherwise, do well at any of those schools and you will have good prospects for F500/Accenture/Deloitte/etc. type jobs that pay well and can lead to a more relaxing lifestyle.

Nov 29, 2010
Jerome Marrow:

lol how many PSU grads are in IB @ a BB from last year's class? I have so many high school friends that went to PSU, graduated with 3.8+ GPAs while in the honors college, and never heard a peep from any BBs wrt recruiting. Shit look at where the people @ the top of the business school there are working now. The one guy I know who is in IB @ GS from Penn St. slaved away his entire 4 years more than anybody I know at any school. He could have alternatively gone to Ross or a target and not killed his soul doing death/sweatshop internships all 3 summers to get into IB.

Michigan (Ross) is going to be your best bet if you want to get into high finance. Otherwise, do well at any of those schools and you will have good prospects for F500/Accenture/Deloitte/etc. type jobs that pay well and can lead to a more relaxing lifestyle.

disagree 100%

Nov 21, 2010

At this point I can't even tell if Balance is trolling.

Nov 21, 2010
drexelalum11:
Balance:

After the Ivy Leagues, PSU is fast becoming the #2 option.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Dude, I don't dislike Penn State, I have some good friends who went there, but please, try not to fuck up kids' lives with advice like that.

Wow, I'm not one to rag on schools with less prestige, but that is a joke. That being said, you can get into IBD from any school if you are determined enough.

gopadub:

and of course I am interested in investment banking and then prolly private equity after being an analyst. I have also read Rosenbaum's book: Investment banking ( recommended by the president of the MIBC), this sparked my interest for this career as well.

Seriously, you are a senior in high school. You need to learn what investment banking and private equity actually are before you plan the next 10 years of your life. And no, you don't know about them just from reading a book. You are lucky that you've identified this interest early, and now you can network and prepare to get an advantage over other candidates. A lot changes during your 4 years in college. Maybe you decide to be a stay-at-home dad, who knows?

Nov 20, 2010

Hey guys thanks for all the advice. I have alos been networking with the president of the Fishers Futures program for OSU to know better so i might be able to join as a freshman.( i think 2 every year are asked to join as sophmore and 10-12 are chosen to join junior year. I think 1 every 2 years or so is selected to join as frosh.

Here is link
http://fisher.osu.edu/offices/career-management/st...
please tell me what you guys think about this program and if you have heard anyhting about it on the street?

Nov 22, 2010

Are you seriously debating this? Go to Michigan. Don't be a pansy freshman year -- get all 4.0s. Then get into Ross sophomore year and you're golden. See you on Wall Street!

MKballer

Nov 23, 2010

Go to UMich and apply to Ross after your freshman year. The vast majority of Ross (~80%) are NOT preferred admits. It is not hard to get into Ross as a freshman, the acceptance rate is around 40%, average GPA is 3.6. As long as you write a good essay, it's not hard to get in with a 3.4. Regardless, if you can't pull a 3.5+ GPA in UMich's liberal arts college (LSA), then no school will help you get into IB.

Once you're a sophomore in Ross, your freshman GPA is wiped clean, which helps if you're like me and had a terrible GPA going in. As for those that say the workload is "insane", or that it's super competitive, I disagree. That might be true for Stern, Wharton, or Haas, but honestly, that isn't the case here. Aside from a couple of core classes when you start (Accounting), classes are curved to an A-, and the required course load is pretty light.

As far as being a "target" goes, Ross (you can easily get in if you put some effort, as many get in without really trying) is in a whole different league than PSU or OSU. There's a TON of kids going to BBs, at least 50-60 per year, and 50-60 internships All the major banks, plus a lot of boutiques, recruit and interview here.

Don't even think twice about this, go to UMich and then go to Ross. It will give you a huge advantage for IB, not to mention its still a Big 10 party school (if you care about that) in an awesome town.

Nov 20, 2010

So, I think its clear that OSU is the correct answer to this question. I mean Terrelle Pryor has really grown this year and Boom Herron is a true running threat right up the middle. That being said - why no mention of Wisconsin and Michigan State? Wisconsin has put up like 150 the last two weeks. Bret Bilema is one ugly fucker. that is true. - good pt.

Nov 25, 2010

WOW I can't believe some of the comments of these Penn State folk. If the OP is set on investment banking, THE CHOICE IS MICHIGAN HANDS DOWN. You can have fun at any school, but not every school will have most of the top banks interviewing 12-24 students per year for front office positions.

mkballer:

Are you seriously debating this? Go to Michigan. Don't be a pansy freshman year -- get all 4.0s. Then get into Ross sophomore year and you're golden. See you on Wall Street!

Ridiculous comment. The work only BEGINS once you get in.

Nov 20, 2010
giants92:

WOW I can't believe some of the comments of these Penn State folk. If the OP is set on investment banking, THE CHOICE IS MICHIGAN HANDS DOWN. You can have fun at any school, but not every school will have most of the top banks interviewing 12-24 students per year for front office positions.

mkballer:

Are you seriously debating this? Go to Michigan. Don't be a pansy freshman year -- get all 4.0s. Then get into Ross sophomore year and you're golden. See you on Wall Street!

Ridiculous comment. The work only BEGINS once you get in.

The question is not Ross vs Penn St vs OSU. The question is UMich vs Penn St vs OSU. Good luck trying to get the recruiters attention if you do not get into Ross.

Nov 22, 2010
giants92:

WOW I can't believe some of the comments of these Penn State folk. If the OP is set on investment banking, THE CHOICE IS MICHIGAN HANDS DOWN. You can have fun at any school, but not every school will have most of the top banks interviewing 12-24 students per year for front office positions.

mkballer:

Are you seriously debating this? Go to Michigan. Don't be a pansy freshman year -- get all 4.0s. Then get into Ross sophomore year and you're golden. See you on Wall Street!

Ridiculous comment. The work only BEGINS once you get in.

How is this a ridiculous comment? Getting a 4.0 freshman year is certainly attainable -- the "hardest" class you'll be taking is Calc. 1, maybe accounting????

As stated before, if he's set on ibanking and reads these boards, he obviously understands what it takes to break into the industry. A 3.5+ at Ross is definitely doable with a good effort and focus.

MKballer

Nov 25, 2010
Anthony .:
giants92:

WOW I can't believe some of the comments of these Penn State folk. If the OP is set on investment banking, THE CHOICE IS MICHIGAN HANDS DOWN. You can have fun at any school, but not every school will have most of the top banks interviewing 12-24 students per year for front office positions.

mkballer:

Are you seriously debating this? Go to Michigan. Don't be a pansy freshman year -- get all 4.0s. Then get into Ross sophomore year and you're golden. See you on Wall Street!

Ridiculous comment. The work only BEGINS once you get in.

The question is not Ross vs Penn St vs OSU. The question is UMich vs Penn St vs OSU. Good luck trying to get the recruiters attention if you do not get into Ross.

If you're smart and can build a decent resume, it's not impossible to get noticed (I managed alright). It's tougher to get your foot in the door for that first internship, but if you can get one and the rest of your resume is good, you basically just have to email recruiters and they'll grant you 1st rounds along with the Ross kids. Is there even on-campus recruiting at PSU/OSU?

mkballer:
giants92:

WOW I can't believe some of the comments of these Penn State folk. If the OP is set on investment banking, THE CHOICE IS MICHIGAN HANDS DOWN. You can have fun at any school, but not every school will have most of the top banks interviewing 12-24 students per year for front office positions.

mkballer:

Are you seriously debating this? Go to Michigan. Don't be a pansy freshman year -- get all 4.0s. Then get into Ross sophomore year and you're golden. See you on Wall Street!

Ridiculous comment. The work only BEGINS once you get in.

How is this a ridiculous comment? Getting a 4.0 freshman year is certainly attainable -- the "hardest" class you'll be taking is Calc. 1, maybe accounting????

As stated before, if he's set on ibanking and reads these boards, he obviously understands what it takes to break into the industry. A 3.5+ at Ross is definitely doable with a good effort and focus.

It's not as easy as you think, depending on what you're shooting for (BBs/top boutiques vs. Macquarie/Raymond James type places). It's a very competitive school.

Nov 20, 2010

Hey guys thanks alot. I really mean it. I was wondering is the Wall street prep any good for before undergrad finance because I was hoping to do somethign like that too also give me another edge other than my business club. Thanks alot again since I live in Ohio the Fishers Future guy wants to meet me so ill also ask him but I would really appreciate your comments concerning it because you guys are currently in the field. Thanks a ton again and yea I hope to see you guys on Wall street as well!!

Nov 23, 2010

The point is that UMich = Ross. There's no reason he wouldn't be accepted into Ross with his determined mindset; it's certainly easier than getting into IB from PSU or OSU.

Nov 20, 2010

Yea I def have to get in Ross i understand that but i was just comparing umich (non ross) vs the other 2 schools thats all but I know that i have to 100% work and get into Ross my soft year.

Nov 27, 2010

If I were you, I'd gamble for Ross.

That aside, why haven't you looked at Kelley? That's a better option for IB than PSU and OSU.

Nov 20, 2010

Hey yea well kelley is an option and i already got accepted. The only thing is that its gonna cost 42kish and unless its umich ( which i believe will be 50kish) i dont want to pay of 40k penn state is 32kish, and OSU is basically free because my parents work there and i will prolly get academic scholarships to all if i do get my IB diploma ( nebraska called me saying that if i get my IB diploma the will accept me as a mid year junior in college...... thats crazy i mean whats next... its like right when you get accepted they tell u to go straight to the career center lol) But yea and goldman made OSU and Penn state a target recently I heard also merril, BAC, JPM and Barclays recruit students from both schools only diff is that OSU has like 11 people in their Fisher futures club and they all wrok in decent BBs and Penn states NLF has like 30 managers in it which all get BBs for sure penn state is prolly the better option but it is also slightly competitve of course than OSU. And of course UMich (Ross) is a target for all BBs prolly even some private equity firms like Blackstone ( which I heard only recruits like 100 summer interns junior year of the students) but Idk all these colleges have investment banking clubs and trading clubs which place students but I was thinking of making a Private equity club at UMich fi I go there idk I will see. Please keep them coming I appreciate all feed back!!

Nov 27, 2010

Kind of ridiculous. Clear choice to go to Michigan. Even if you don't get into Ross, you still have a shot at banking if you put in the time/effort. I know way more non-Ross kids that got into IBD than bschool PSU/OSU kids.

Nov 27, 2010

PSU and OSU are targets now? Damn should have gone to them instead of Harvard.

Nov 20, 2010

I don't understand how everyone here is acting like the only utility a school generates is the number of recruiters who come on campus. If you want to get in to IBD badly enough, you can do so from fucking Fresno State. It is really pretty simple, and should not be why you choose a college - this is four years of your life you're talking about. You have no idea if some English teacher is going to spark a passion in you and you'll want to go off and join TFA, if you'll find an all-nighter makes you puke the first time you leave a paper until the last minute, or if you'll fall in love with smoking weed. All of those have certainly happened, and you should not be basing this decision off of a remote possibility that you frankly lack the experience to have made correctly. Even if you get in to banking, what then? About a half of your first-year class will flame out; by the time you're four years in, the rate is much higher. What if you're one of those kids? Will you look back on this decision and still be happy you made it based on whether or not a school was a fucking IBD target?

This needs to be a holistic decision, and most of the advice you're getting here is one-dimensional, and fairly shitty at that. I recommended Michigan over PSU and OSU because it is a better school, and the people I know who went to Michigan (both Ross and non-Ross) are significantly smarter than those I know who went to PSU or OSU; I enjoy being around smart people, so I recommended it. I also know that if you have Michigan on your resume ten years from now, people will treat you better than if you have PSU or OSU, ceteris paribus. No one cares if Goldman makes a school a fucking target. Reputations aren't built in a few years; they take decades, and frankly, Michigan has a reputation for being a good school, and PSU and OSU really don't.

Now, that's just one person's opinion, and I didn't go to any of them, or even to a remotely similar school, so if I were you I'd take it with a massive grain of salt. What you should do is ask your friends who go to each what they like about it, what they don't like, etc. It's going to be far more relevant to you if they say the gym is a 19th century stink-hole than anything that's been written here.

Nov 21, 2010
drexelalum11:

I don't understand how everyone here is acting like the only utility a school generates is the number of recruiters who come on campus. If you want to get in to IBD badly enough, you can do so from fucking Fresno State. It is really pretty simple, and should not be why you choose a college - this is four years of your life you're talking about. You have no idea if some English teacher is going to spark a passion in you and you'll want to go off and join TFA, if you'll find an all-nighter makes you puke the first time you leave a paper until the last minute, or if you'll fall in love with smoking weed. All of those have certainly happened, and you should not be basing this decision off of a remote possibility that you frankly lack the experience to have made correctly. Even if you get in to banking, what then? About a half of your first-year class will flame out; by the time you're four years in, the rate is much higher. What if you're one of those kids? Will you look back on this decision and still be happy you made it based on whether or not a school was a fucking IBD target?

This needs to be a holistic decision, and most of the advice you're getting here is one-dimensional, and fairly shitty at that. I recommended Michigan over PSU and OSU because it is a better school, and the people I know who went to Michigan (both Ross and non-Ross) are significantly smarter than those I know who went to PSU or OSU; I enjoy being around smart people, so I recommended it. I also know that if you have Michigan on your resume ten years from now, people will treat you better than if you have PSU or OSU, ceteris paribus. No one cares if Goldman makes a school a fucking target. Reputations aren't built in a few years; they take decades, and frankly, Michigan has a reputation for being a good school, and PSU and OSU really don't.

Now, that's just one person's opinion, and I didn't go to any of them, or even to a remotely similar school, so if I were you I'd take it with a massive grain of salt. What you should do is ask your friends who go to each what they like about it, what they don't like, etc. It's going to be far more relevant to you if they say the gym is a 19th century stink-hole than anything that's been written here.

So you went through that whole rant to repeat the same shit everybody else said? Are you not aware enough to see how full circle it all is? Michigan has overall smarter students because it is a better school and, in part of its good academics, it gets recruiters to visit the school and make it a semi-target to target for various banks. PSU and OSU are not known to be bastions of academic excellence in comparison to every single target and on top of that, have not generated a large number of alumni that go to work on the street.

Your reasoning is really no different than anybody else's here. The advice about asking people what they like about it is equally worthless--they don't really have a good comparison do they? Look at all these PSU kids talking about how excellent and rigorous their academics are.... I mean that is about as laughable as it gets.

Nov 20, 2010

What's your point dude? I gave an opinion earlier in this thread; I clarified why I gave that opinion, and also stated that mine wasn't necessarily very good advice. I read a bunch of bullshit, and I stated why it was bullshit. I'm sure my reasoning is bullshit as well - I can't tell you how to choose a college, and I certainly can't tell you which is right for you if I don't know you. The only reasonable advice I could think of was to speak with people you know at the various schools, so that's what I suggested. It might not be the best approach either, but it's significantly more useful than 80+ posts on how PSU sent ten kids to BBs this year.

Nov 21, 2010

My point was that you used the exact same logic to come to the exact same conclusion.... and yes, the PSU kids that have posted here are dumbasses and likely don't know the difference between BO/MO/FO.

Nov 21, 2010
Jerome Marrow:

My point was that you used the exact same logic to come to the exact same conclusion.... and yes, the PSU kids that have posted here are dumbasses and likely don't know the difference between BO/MO/FO.

You're right all PSU kids are too stupid to understand the difference between back and front office... When you speak in generalities with regard to the quality of a school you clearly know nothing about, you end up sounding like a total jackass... You clearly know nothing about the how successful the recruiting is at the university so you shouldn't just blindly make blanket insults towards prior posters, like myself, who gave solid unbiased advice... You know not of what you speak

Nov 21, 2010
rufiolove:
Jerome Marrow:

My point was that you used the exact same logic to come to the exact same conclusion.... and yes, the PSU kids that have posted here are dumbasses and likely don't know the difference between BO/MO/FO.

You're right all PSU kids are too stupid to understand the difference between back and front office... When you speak in generalities with regard to the quality of a school you clearly know nothing about, you end up sounding like a total jackass... You clearly know nothing about the how successful the recruiting is at the university so you shouldn't just blindly make blanket insults towards prior posters, like myself, who gave solid unbiased advice... You know not of what you speak

How about this--where did the girl at the top of your class in 2010 end up? You have nearly 6000 kids in your undergrad b-school. Sorry brah, but that is pretty fucking shitty placement. The fact is that if somebody of equal intelligence/drive/etc. goes to PSU versus any target (including Ross), they are taking many giant steps back in the recruiting process because the placement and recruiting for finance at PSU is garbage in relation to any target or semi-target.

Nov 29, 2010
Jerome Marrow:

My point was that you used the exact same logic to come to the exact same conclusion.... and yes, the PSU kids that have posted here are dumbasses and likely don't know the difference between BO/MO/FO.

this is funny.. the penn st person on this post i know has maybe one of the best jobs right now on the street.

Nov 21, 2010
monty09:
Jerome Marrow:

My point was that you used the exact same logic to come to the exact same conclusion.... and yes, the PSU kids that have posted here are dumbasses and likely don't know the difference between BO/MO/FO.

this is funny.. the penn st person on this post i know has maybe one of the best jobs right now on the street.

n=1, sweet. Look at the overall numbers and what the point of my posts has been. PSU = shitty placement and uphill battle. I know that they don't really teach you how to understand the context of comments, but it is important here.

There are 6000 kids in their undergrad bschool and probably more outside of that who have interests involving finance. The fact that a tiny number of kids get in, many of whom are likely athletes or have strong connections to the street to begin with, doesn't make it a good school for recruiting. As I said, the people I know personally who went to PSU, did well, and ended up at good places (ie top tier IB analyst program) slaved away all year and during their 3 college summers. On the other hand, I know dozens of people from my school who ended up in similar positions without having ever even done an internship in finance.... good luck doing that from PSU. Shit there are hundreds of kids from my high school graduating class who went to PSU, are plenty smart, and did great, but have had dreadful times getting top tier finance interviews, let alone jobs.

Nov 28, 2010

come to Ann Arbor. we have a strong school culture (football town), 500,000 alum around the world, and a solid business school. im bleeding maize and blue.

Nov 20, 2010

Thanks everybody I have spent lots of my life thinking about what I would like to do,by read books, and many things. I also understand that that might be absurd to you guys....... and are prolly laughing at me but I am super mature and all 3 are preety much have the same big ten feel but I also like having smart people around me and so ill also consider that. Also its not like I will use this to make 100% of my decison I just want to see what current bankers think..........Also (this may sound crazy) I was thinking that I could contact some BB ibanks and ask some recriuters if they would let me do a summer internship type thing for a high school senior in new york or something. Or even like a shadow or training (don't judge me) I know normally juniors in college do wall street internships but I hope they will be impressed and give it shot what y'all think.. thanks again keep them coming

Nov 28, 2010
gopadub:

Thanks everybody I have spent lots of my life thinking about what I would like to do,by read books, and many things. I also understand that that might be absurd to you guys....... and are prolly laughing at me but I am super mature and all 3 are preety much have the same big ten feel but I also like having smart people around me and so ill also consider that. Also its not like I will use this to make 100% of my decison I just want to see what current bankers think..........Also (this may sound crazy) I was thinking that I could contact some BB ibanks and ask some recriuters if they would let me do a summer internship type thing for a high school senior in new york or something. Or even like a shadow or training (don't judge me) I know normally juniors in college do wall street internships but I hope they will be impressed and give it shot what y'all think.. thanks again keep them coming

i had the same dream in high school. but that aint gonna happen. GS has a program targeted for high school girls. so if u r a girl, u are certainly in luck.

Nov 29, 2010
gopadub:

University of Michigan was my first choice but I am not sure if i will be able to get into Ross, and might end up doing economics.

This is absolutely no offense - and I'm personally not a super-competitive prodigy analyst at Blackstone or anything like that - BUT..... If you're not sure that you'll be able to get into a MAJOR at a SCHOOL, how are you going to be sure that you'll get into the investment banking industry? I'll be honest with you - it doesn't get any easier from the time you sign your first offer letter.

Pick U-Mich and try your best to get into Ross, as it'll be the most logical step to success, as opposed to "networking" through the backdoor at OSU. Now, shit happens to people and sometimes they don't succeed initially and have to learn from mistakes - but you'll still be glad you've given it your best shot. And Econ at U-Mich is still not that bad of a second choice.

Separately, Penn State places decently on Wall Street, by the way, but I've mostly seen star athletes get the best positions at BBs. Every BB's got a "star athlete" allocation in the analyst class ;) - so that obviously helps.

Nov 20, 2010

Haha yea I guess I just don understand the difficulty of the school yet so i am kinda of making a generalization. ( I had 2 friends from my school last year one got in regular admit and one didnt get in at all and at school the student that didnt get in ross was a lot smarter in high school, but the other guy prolly worked a lot hard in college so idk how hard is it there to get a A how mny hours u put in aveerage per class freshman year things like that. thanks.......and yea that idea of cold calling a major BB bank to ask for a shadow/intern/training program for me a high schooler is prolly crazy but idk wht do i got to lose i figure?? if it is way to crazy tell me lol i wont mind lol thanks again guys and keep them coming

Nov 20, 2010

PSU, OSU, UMich, UVA, UCLA, etc are all really huge and well known state schools. UMich just happens to have a better business school. I don't think that translates to every area.

Calling or insinuating that every student at a state school is somehow less intelligent than someone at another state school is simply foolish. You also are not factoring in the different campuses. Not everyone goes to Penn States main campus, just as not everyone goes to Ann Arbor. A lot of those large numbers are because of the spread out campuses.

Ross has better recruiting than all the schools. If you live in PA and have a choice between Non Ross and PSU , you might want to consider PSU simply to save money.

PSU has an epic network and well known brand. If a kid is smart and networks he will get interviews. Ross has much better on campus recruiting so it will be easier. Once you get the interview you will be on level ground.

Nov 21, 2010

Anthony,

There are 6000 kids at Smeal. And before you presume I insulted every person that goes to the school, how about you read my posts.

I guess they really don't teach you non-target folks how to read.... :D

That epic network sure doesn't do shit for finance because you don't even need one full hand to count the number of BBs that recruit there for FO positions in IB or S&T.

Nov 21, 2010

And really, dude? You threw monkey shit at me when you couldn't even read my post and somehow assumed that me saying the undergrad bschool has 6000 kids meant that I don't know there are multiple campuses for PSU in general? You're a moron.

Nov 20, 2010
Jerome Marrow:

And really, dude? You threw monkey shit at me when you couldn't even read my post and somehow assumed that me saying the undergrad bschool has 6000 kids meant that I don't know there are multiple campuses for PSU in general? You're a moron.

Believe me dude, I am not the only one with credits who disagrees with your posts.

Nov 29, 2010
Anthony .:
Jerome Marrow:

And really, dude? You threw monkey shit at me when you couldn't even read my post and somehow assumed that me saying the undergrad bschool has 6000 kids meant that I don't know there are multiple campuses for PSU in general? You're a moron.

Believe me dude, I am not the only one with credits who disagrees with your posts.

Far from it, in fact

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Nov 20, 2010

Jerome,

Everyone knows the schools I went to. Why don't you man up and reveal your UG institution and major.

Nov 21, 2010
Anthony .:

Jerome,

Everyone knows the schools I went to. Why don't you man up and reveal your UG institution and major.

It shouldn't be hard to figure out--I alluded to it in plenty of posts. Not really relevant to the topic either since I didn't ask you where you went to school nor do I give a shit about Syracuse and wherever you're getting your MSF. If you can't respond to my points logically and actually understand what I was saying (you literally just went off on a random rant that had 0 to do with what I said), then you shouldn't say a thing.

Nov 29, 2010

whats the difference in target or non target? a job is a job

Nov 21, 2010
monty09:

whats the difference in target or non target? a job is a job

durrrrrrrrrrrr at one place it is much harder to get the same job, even if you are equally smart and did equally well in school. Seriously, is that so fucking hard to understand? Has that been lost on all of you?

Nov 29, 2010
Jerome Marrow:
monty09:

whats the difference in target or non target? a job is a job

durrrrrrrrrrrr at one place it is much harder to get the same job, even if you are equally smart and did equally well in school. Seriously, is that so fucking hard to understand? Has that been lost on all of you?

whats hard to understand is why does it matter? end game to end game.. you didnt go to any of the above.. who cares

Nov 29, 2010

end game is all that counts... who cares... i have ivy league and junior college on my trading desk.. end of day its all about end game.. more penn st folks then ross but i am not in chicago.. shit load of ross folks in chicago...

Nov 29, 2010

Jerome, you are exactly right, it is much harder to get the same job if you are equally or more intelligent than those that attend 'targets' to that end, maybe you should not shit on the people that did EXACTLY what 90% of the people here are trying to do through a more difficult and demanding road. You're making yourself look like an ass...

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Nov 21, 2010
happypantsmcgee:

Jerome, you are exactly right, it is much harder to get the same job if you are equally or more intelligent than those that attend 'targets' to that end, maybe you should not shit on the people that did EXACTLY what 90% of the people here are trying to do through a more difficult and demanding road. You're making yourself look like an ass...

Where did I demean them? I have done nothing of the kind. Please go read my posts before making stupid fucking comments. I initially, in jest, called the posters here from PSU dumbasses because they were going on about the great recruiting at PSU, which is absolute horseshit and you even acknowledge here.

Nov 21, 2010

It is funny here that none of you can even disagree with my points and go on irrational rants about shit I never even said.

My point(s):

-PSU is not a target, meaning there is extremely little to no on campus recruiting for FO positions in IB or S&T.
-It has relatively poor placement in finance compared to Ross and even UIndiana (perhaps even Wisconsin). This is related to above.
-People that do end up making it into a good finance gig from PSU, if not already having some intangible (ie good D1 athlete) or a strong connection to the street, have to work much harder than those of equal status at a different school (like Ross or somewhere else).
-There are nearly 6000 people at the undergrad business school--even if 10 or even 20 kids do make it into a FO high finance position (not true, but let's pretend that many did make it), that is quite poor placement relative to many other schools and those individuals likely would have made it from another more targeted school with substantially less hardship.

If your goal is finance, choosing PSU is like running a 100m race, but setting your blocks up 5m behind everyone else. It doesn't mean the end of the race, but it is sure a substantial handicap.

Your point(s):

-Nothing intelligible

Nov 29, 2010
Jerome Marrow:

It is funny here that none of you can even disagree with my points and go on irrational rants about shit I never even said.

My point(s):

-PSU is not a target, meaning there is extremely little to no on campus recruiting for FO positions in IB or S&T.
-It has relatively poor placement in finance compared to Ross and even UIndiana (perhaps even Wisconsin). This is related to above.
-People that do end up making it into a good finance gig from PSU, if not already having some intangible (ie good D1 athlete) or a strong connection to the street, have to work much harder than those of equal status at a different school (like Ross or somewhere else).
-There are nearly 6000 people at the undergrad business school--even if 10 or even 20 kids do make it into a FO high finance position (not true, but let's pretend that many did make it), that is quite poor placement relative to many other schools and those individuals likely would have made it from another more targeted school with substantially less hardship.

If your goal is finance, choosing PSU is like running a 100m race, but setting your blocks up 5m behind everyone else. It doesn't mean the end of the race, but it is sure a substantial handicap.

Your point(s):

-Nothing intelligible

every trader i know from penn st was an regular student with decent grades... no d1 sports ( I was and agree its a huge leg up) and most just made good grades and OCR... nothing special..

my first job out of college was in chicago and I went to each of these schools for fresh analyst... none were that different..

Nov 21, 2010
monty09:
Jerome Marrow:

It is funny here that none of you can even disagree with my points and go on irrational rants about shit I never even said.

My point(s):

-PSU is not a target, meaning there is extremely little to no on campus recruiting for FO positions in IB or S&T.
-It has relatively poor placement in finance compared to Ross and even UIndiana (perhaps even Wisconsin). This is related to above.
-People that do end up making it into a good finance gig from PSU, if not already having some intangible (ie good D1 athlete) or a strong connection to the street, have to work much harder than those of equal status at a different school (like Ross or somewhere else).
-There are nearly 6000 people at the undergrad business school--even if 10 or even 20 kids do make it into a FO high finance position (not true, but let's pretend that many did make it), that is quite poor placement relative to many other schools and those individuals likely would have made it from another more targeted school with substantially less hardship.

If your goal is finance, choosing PSU is like running a 100m race, but setting your blocks up 5m behind everyone else. It doesn't mean the end of the race, but it is sure a substantial handicap.

Your point(s):

-Nothing intelligible

every trader i know from penn st was an regular student with decent grades... no d1 sports ( I was and agree its a huge leg up) and most just made good grades and OCR... nothing special..

my first job out of college was in chicago and I went to each of these schools for fresh analyst... none were that different..

monty thanks for being a voice of reason on this thread... it's becoming increasingly clear that Jerome, here, is simply poorly informed... he clearly knows nothing about our OCR recruiting (which is in no way insubstantial) and just because there are 5800 students in our business school doesn't mean they are all finance majors

We only accept 300 kids per year into the finance major at our b school so being that of the total program only 1 in 5 students is a finance major with only 300 per class per year and we place 30-40 plus per year into front office jobs on the street that means that if you get into the finance major at Smeal you have a 1 in 10 shot at getting a job on the street... I think the odds are fairly similar to what you would see many places after you consider that many students do not want street jobs...

Bottom line, Jerome, virtually no one on this thread has derived any value from the blind (and unjustified) school bashing you've brought to the table, and all you've really done is present yourself as an insufferable jackass... certainly the original poster has not learned anything from what you've said... you don't even know anything about our school (by the way Jim Cramer visited our fund managers and paid us one of the highest compliments we ever could have hoped to receive http://wallst.smeal.psu.edu/nittany-lion-fund)... I guarantee you monty has a better job and more perspective on this issue than you have... you are literally too stupid to insult, and your analogies, like your candor, leave much to be desired... how about you tell everyone where you went to school and stop hating on a legitimate business program with strong placement...

Nov 20, 2010
Jerome Marrow:

It is funny here that none of you can even disagree with my points and go on irrational rants about shit I never even said.

My point(s):

-PSU is not a target, meaning there is extremely little to no on campus recruiting for FO positions in IB or S&T.
-It has relatively poor placement in finance compared to Ross and even UIndiana (perhaps even Wisconsin). This is related to above.
-People that do end up making it into a good finance gig from PSU, if not already having some intangible (ie good D1 athlete) or a strong connection to the street, have to work much harder than those of equal status at a different school (like Ross or somewhere else).
-There are nearly 6000 people at the undergrad business school--even if 10 or even 20 kids do make it into a FO high finance position (not true, but let's pretend that many did make it), that is quite poor placement relative to many other schools and those individuals likely would have made it from another more targeted school with substantially less hardship.

If your goal is finance, choosing PSU is like running a 100m race, but setting your blocks up 5m behind everyone else. It doesn't mean the end of the race, but it is sure a substantial handicap.

Your point(s):

-Nothing intelligible

In response to the 6,000 students in Smeal, the placement of students into high finance roles, is definitely not great, especially when compared to the likes of Ross. That being said, you also have to consider the number of students who actually WANT to work on Wall Street. As a student here, there are a good chunk of finance majors that do not even want to come close to Wall Street. The lifestyle, type of work, etc. is just not intriguing or appealing enough even given the pay. Finance is a controlled major at Penn State and only about 300-350 will even get into finance, based on a person's GPA in his/her first semester. Out of those 300, I would say anywhere from 30-50 actually want FO jobs on Wall St. and about 15-25 are actually qualified for those roles. This past year we had around 15 receive and accept full time offers in front office roles at BB's. That tremendously narrows down the field of applicants. If you can stand out, and simply based on the posters seeming determination, it seems as though he would work hard and get into that upper echelon.

In terms of the amount of work you have to put in, do you have to put in a lot of work? Definitely, you are going to have to put in a lot of work no matter what school you go to. I can guarantee you the course workload at PSU is much less rigorous than at most targets (at least from my interaction with my many friends who have gone to targets and have had similar aspirations). This leaves a lot more time to get involved with other things, which is where you get the marginal education that the average Penn State student may not get, but that probably means he or she is not involved in the correct things to ensure placement onto Wall Street. Particularly in relation to kids in the honors college you knew that did not get a sniff from Wall St., getting involved in the right things and standing out are the most important things to landing a gig, my guess is that they just did not do that. With the lack of OCR, you have to talk to people to get noticed, but that is more than possible at PSU. I know plenty of kids in the honors college who have gotten great jobs on the street in the past few years.

You do not need prior connections or be a D1 athlete to get into this category either. There are plenty of alumni at nearly every major bank willing to help out PSU students and will fight tooth and nail to help kids they like.

In terms of the education I received here, I am not going to sit here and tell you that the classes here are extremely rigorous or can compare in anyway to what you will receive at a Wharton, NYU, MIT etc., but the things you do outside of class (getting involved in things like the PSIA and NLF) are what set us apart when we do interview against candidates from those schools. Some of the things I have learned here are above and beyond what some of my peers at some of those schools have received because of the things I got involved with. The best way I like to explain PSU and Smeal to people is that there is a world of opportunity here, no one is going to hand you anything (you can turn into a number very quickly), but if you work hard and seek opportunities in the things that you are interested in, especially if it is Wall St, PSU will provide adequate resources to allow you to do so.

Slaving away 3 years of your life for the job like the one example you cited (I think I might even know who you are referring to here) is one case and not the experience of everyone here. Let's face it, if you want a job on Wall St, you are going to have to work hard no matter what school you are at, target or non target. So to me this is somewhat of a moot point. The people I know at targets, at least in my conversations with them, still seemed to work harder than me in most cases in relation to their classes, while kids here will work hard networking and getting involved with things outside the classroom to make up for the fact that we are not a target school.

Recruiting wise, no we are not a target at many banks. We just became a target at GS and have had some placement at many BB's, maybe not 5 or 10 kids, but getting 1 or 2 people in places is a start. Like you said, it takes many years to become a target school. If alumni keep sticking their head out for the students here, hopefully we eventually be, but time will tell with that one. That being said there is definitely heightened interest with some of our students here at a couple of different BB's that we have not seen before.

To sum up, PSU will offer the resources to gain placement onto Wall St. The recruiting may not be as robust, but you can definitely help control that situation here if you network, which is more than possible because we have placed enough people who are willing to help out in the past few years. In the end, it still comes down to the individual, if you are smart, work hard, know what you have to do to get a job on the street and people like you, your school will not be the biggest determinant of whether you land a FO job on Wall St. To the original poster, all else equal, go to UMich, but don't be discouraged in anyway in coming to PSU, should you decide to do so.

Who knows, maybe everything I wrote here is discredited because I do not know the difference between a FO/MO/BO job on the Street....but last I checked many of my peers and I got FO jobs on Wall St very early in our senior years, much of which is due to everything I received here at PSU.

Nov 29, 2010

At least if he goes to Penn State he knows he won't have to associate with your obnoxious ass

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Nov 21, 2010
happypantsmcgee:

At least if he goes to Penn State he knows he won't have to associate with your obnoxious ass

+1 happy, for making me laugh out loud in a full computer lab... too bad my shitty non-target school can't afford more compuders... now everyone is laffing at me... sighs...

Nov 29, 2010

case to case buddy...

Nov 20, 2010

Jerome, you are correct, you did not directly insult everyone at PSU. I apologize. My mistake stemmed from the fact that just about all of your posts in this thread were insulting, flippant, and generalizations. You attack one person for posting his personal experience and then you turn around and post your own personal experiences. I skimmed your posts and disagreed with you.

Next time, act like an adult and address my error. Throwing out "non target" as if it is some sort of an insult is laughable. There are plenty of top schools that do not get IB recruiting. Even within top schools you can still be non target.

This thread is about Mich vs OSU vs PSU. My posts have always said that if you can get into Ross you should go. Everyone knows Ross is a better ranked and better recruited school. That being said, PSU has a huge network, with many on Wall Street. If you can get into Ross, do it. If not then go to PSU/OSU and do well.

Nov 29, 2010
Anthony .:

Next time, act like an adult and address my error. Throwing out "non target" as if it is some sort of an insult is laughable. There are plenty of top schools that do not get IB recruiting. Even within top schools you can still be non target.

+1.

At a lot of firms, non-target is actually a bit of a compliment- assuming nobody with the same last name as you works at the firm.

To the OP, all three schools that you mentioned are excellent flagship land grant schools, but I would lean towards Michigan-Ross, all things being equal. If PSU is in-state and you don't want to go into debt, I wouldn't rule it out either.

Nov 23, 2010

Jerome is spot on. The thread starter obviously is EXTREMELY intent on getting into investment banking - what other high school kid would come on to this forum? Clearly, he places a school's ability to place him into investment banking firms at or near the top of his reasons to go somewhere.

With that fact in mind, the answer to his question is clear. Ross is FAR superior to the alternatives. Period. Even the other schools within UMich are superior to PSU and OSU. UMich is a internationally renowned school, with top 10 programs across nearly all academic fields, including economics and engineering. Even the econ and engineering departments in UMich certainly have better placement than PSU. Furthermore, it has the largest alumni network in the world.

To the people saying why does it matter, "end game to end game": Can you guys even read? It matters because the thread starter asked what school is best for IB.

Even if you don't end up wanting to pursue finance, UMich is a superior school. Even though it is a large public school, It is just simply at another level than PSU and OSU. On average, the kids are far smarter. Evidence: average SAT, ACT, High School GPA are all higher at UMich, and astronomically higher in Ross. At UMich, you will surrounded by more intelligent peers, recieve a better education, and have better job prospects. These facts are irrefutable. The ONLY reason to go to PSU is if you get a full ride there. Even still, if you want IB, its worth it to take out loans. The majority of people in Ross who want to get IB jobs get them. (Overall, placement is around 20-25%, but there are a ton of people here who do Marketing or some other bs, or take top consulting/corporate finance jobs. When you throw out all the people with under 3.5 (they clearly did not try very hard to maximize their job prospects), many of those who are left get IB jobs.)

Nov 29, 2010
latitude4310:

Jerome is spot on. The thread starter obviously is EXTREMELY intent on getting into investment banking - what other high school kid would come on to this forum? Clearly, he places a school's ability to place him into investment banking firms at or near the top of his reasons to go somewhere.

With that fact in mind, the answer to his question is clear. Ross is FAR superior to the alternatives. Period. Even the other schools within UMich are superior to PSU and OSU. UMich is a internationally renowned school, with top 10 programs across nearly all academic fields, including economics and engineering. Even the econ and engineering departments in UMich certainly have better placement than PSU. Furthermore, it has the largest alumni network in the world.

To the people saying why does it matter, "end game to end game": Can you guys even read? It matters because the thread starter asked what school is best for IB.

Even if you don't end up wanting to pursue finance, UMich is a superior school. Even though it is a large public school, It is just simply at another level than PSU and OSU. On average, the kids are far smarter. Evidence: average SAT, ACT, High School GPA are all higher at UMich, and astronomically higher in Ross. At UMich, you will surrounded by more intelligent peers, recieve a better education, and have better job prospects. These facts are irrefutable. The ONLY reason to go to PSU is if you get a full ride there. Even still, if you want IB, its worth it to take out loans. The majority of people in Ross who want to get IB jobs get them. (Overall, placement is around 20-25%, but there are a ton of people here who do Marketing or some other bs, or take top consulting/corporate finance jobs. When you throw out all the people with under 3.5 (they clearly did not try very hard to maximize their job prospects), many of those who are left get IB jobs.)

so you like the school huh? how long you been there? a year? two?

Nov 23, 2010

Great response. Any real points to make? What is one thing I said that is not true or not relevant?

Nov 23, 2010

Great response. Any real points to make? What is one thing I said that is not true or not relevant?

Nov 29, 2010

I didnt go to school there.. you did..

Nov 23, 2010

I sense some bitterness on your part towards the posts promoting UMich (i.e., giving the original poster the best and most relevant advice). Perhaps you are insecure about your school?

Look, no one is saying PSU is a bad school. Or that, ultimately, your school is the be all end all of where you end up in life. But a better school DOES give you advantages in certain things. Job recruitment is one of these. Wharton has better placement than Ross. Ross has better placement than PSU. PSU has better placement than community college.

Nov 29, 2010

i dont care dude.. your in school.. i am in the real world.. schools dont mean shit.. my bonus is not determined by my college or how many of my peers work in finance. end of the day is this kid is focused and willing to work hard he will get a job in finance and be fine. the only exp i have with a ross grad that stands out is someone who lied about missing work only to catch a foul ball at the cubs/cards game... fired next morning and it was pretty funny.

Nov 20, 2010

You wall streeters really like to quarrel. Haha well anyways I was wondering if my idea of doing an internship/ shadow/ training type thing with an investment bank in New York is a reasonable idea? I am willing to sacrfice some of my summer this year because I figure hey 3 summers are gone but ill be set the next 50 summers of my life when I work at a firm and doing the job I want. How should I network with them? just cold call? I am also asking the fishers future guy since he prolly has all the recruiting contacts. i figure wherever i go having that experience and contact will last a long time. Thanks a lot for the responses !! Lets keep them rolling in !!

please answer this question I would appreciate it again thanks to all !!!!

Nov 29, 2010
gopadub:

You wall streeters really like to quarrel. Haha well anyways I was wondering if my idea of doing an internship/ shadow/ training type thing with an investment bank in New York is a reasonable idea? I am willing to sacrfice some of my summer this year because I figure hey 3 summers are gone but ill be set the next 50 summers of my life when I work at a firm and doing the job I want. How should I network with them? just cold call? I am also asking the fishers future guy since he prolly has all the recruiting contacts. i figure wherever i go having that experience and contact will last a long time. Thanks a lot for the responses !! Lets keep them rolling in !!

please answer this question I would appreciate it again thanks to all !!!!

There's definitely official channels for this if you're a woman or a minority. Otherwise, it will be tough without connections before your junior year.

In the meantime, between your frosh and soph years and sophomore and junior years, see if you can line up a summer internship at a financial consulting firm, the US Treasury, or something that says finance.

Nov 21, 2010

LMAO

Everybody.... STOP!

Jim Motherfucking Cramer has put his stamp of approval on a fucking student run investment club..... End of discussion.

Seriously, referencing him to validate your club... That should tell everybody here the value of a PSU finance education. I am not kidding.

Nov 29, 2010
Jerome Marrow:

LMAO

Everybody.... STOP!

Jim Motherfucking Cramer has put his stamp of approval on a fucking student run investment club..... End of discussion.

Seriously, referencing him to validate your club... That should tell everybody here the value of a PSU finance education. I am not kidding.

Remember how you bitched and moaned because people "didn't read your post"? You took one fucking line out of rufio's straight up ownage of your pissy, whiny, choad stroking ass and used it to make a farcical and stupid joke. Jim Cramer worked at Goldman and did well enough that you (whiny bitch that you are) knows who he is. Why don't you just go the fuck away, you non contributing zero.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Nov 21, 2010
happypantsmcgee:
Jerome Marrow:

LMAO

Everybody.... STOP!

Jim Motherfucking Cramer has put his stamp of approval on a fucking student run investment club..... End of discussion.

Seriously, referencing him to validate your club... That should tell everybody here the value of a PSU finance education. I am not kidding.

Remember how you bitched and moaned because people "didn't read your post"? You took one fucking line out of rufio's straight up ownage of your pissy, whiny, choad stroking ass and used it to make a farcical and stupid joke. Jim Cramer worked at Goldman and did well enough that you (whiny bitch that you are) knows who he is. Why don't you just go the fuck away, you non contributing zero.

First off, you/Anthony/monty didn't read my posts before babbling. Fact. Even Anthony acknowledged this in this. Second, Rufio's post was so illogical and factually incorrect, that it didn't even warrant a response. I almost pissed myself reading his Cramer reference, which really does tell you a lot about the type of education you're going to get and how well your logic and reasoning will be developed. If one's justification of the Penn St. education and finance club is that a guy with a history of unethical practices, that is a net loser in investment advice outside of the dot-com bubble and raising funds, and acts obnoxiously on TV says it is good, then you're fucked.

If your justification of the Cramer-stamp-of-approval is that he 'worked at Goldman' and is well known, then you are not a very logical, rational, or even educated person.

Nov 21, 2010
Jerome Marrow:

LMAO

Everybody.... STOP!

Jim Motherfucking Cramer has put his stamp of approval on a fucking student run investment club..... End of discussion.

Seriously, referencing him to validate your club... That should tell everybody here the value of a PSU finance education. I am not kidding.

Last time I checked you never started a hedge fund... regardless of what you think of him as a person, you can't argue that the man has considerably (understatement) more knowledge of everything in finance than you ever will... bottom line, I know I have a better job than you and I bet that really pisses you off... especially because I went to the school I went to... Cheers mate, let that bitterness eat away at you like a cancer

Nov 21, 2010
rufiolove:
Jerome Marrow:

LMAO

Everybody.... STOP!

Jim Motherfucking Cramer has put his stamp of approval on a fucking student run investment club..... End of discussion.

Seriously, referencing him to validate your club... That should tell everybody here the value of a PSU finance education. I am not kidding.

Last time I checked you never started a hedge fund... regardless of what you think of him as a person, you can't argue that the man has considerably (understatement) more knowledge of everything in finance than you ever will... bottom line, I know I have a better job than you and I bet that really pisses you off... especially because I went to the school I went to... Cheers mate, let that bitterness eat away at you like a cancer

lol you think Cramer is a bastion of financial wisdom.... because he started a hedge fund.....

Please read Fooled By Randomness. It will be an eye opener to you.

And re: a better job, if that is the justification you make in your head, that is pretty pathetic. With that said, I have great doubts that you have a 'better' job and are likely not in the same industry to begin with....

Nov 20, 2010

Listen, Penn State is what it is: a big state school with it's real claim to fame being the football team. Are there ups and downs to it? Absolutely. It's going to be harder to get to Wall St: you'll have to work your sack off to get a shot, but there are opportunities. You just need to work a little harder to prove yourself, and don't get it confused: you will be a number.

Jerome is entitled to his opinion and it certainly has some merit: Penn State is a modest semi-target if anything, and that's the trade-off. At the same time, I'm happy I went there because once you've graduated, that's it, there's no going back. I've had some unbelievable times there, between the football, the parties, and nickel night at the Saloon, I would never trade those experiences for anything.

Nov 29, 2010

Jerome is desperately trying to stop the troll train he's locked himself into, but it just keeps careening along faster and faster as he tries to stop it by hitting the accelerator.

Just let it go man. You don't have to win every debate.

PSU is ranked #1 in recruiting among F500 qualities as having the largest supply of high quality candidates. We can debate whether it's in the same league as the targets or not, but a lot of successful firms (certainly moreso than most finance firms over the past three years) think the school graduates some pretty darned smart folks. We've got several folks here on the equities trading floor who hail from PSU and we do some informal on-campus recruiting there, too.

OP- why the heck do you want to go into investment banking? It's like someone studying engineering back in 1975 saying that they want to go work for Chrysler. The industry is an overpriced junk heap. What you really want to do is go work in aerospace, energy, or utilities.

Nov 29, 2010

art history, gender studies,music or phy and Gibsons on me...

Nov 20, 2010

Fooled and Black Swan are two of my favorite books. Nassim has a 3rd out right now.

http://www.amazon.com/nassimtalebfavo/dp/1400069971/

Nov 29, 2010

IP's bottom line:

1.) PSU and Michigan are both excellent schools. The smartest kid to graduate Michigan is probably going to be smarter than the smartest kid at Harvard in a little more than 1 out of every 2 years. (Mind you Michigan is bigger so that helps it.)

2.) You'd have to be crazy to want to go into investment banking at this point. The industry is cannibalizing itself and we need smart people to go off and work at Fortune 500 companies and become the country's next crop of CEOs in 15-20 years. Sitting in front of a computer and working on Excel every day when you could be in the field figuring out which oil fields to explore or where to site the next solar plant or nuclear reactor doesn't seem all that cool. Finance isn't just about mergers- it's also about building new things and creating the energy foundation for the economy for the next fifty years. Not to mention space-based solar arrays if we ever get carbon nanotubes strong enough to build a space elevator. I think all of that could be a lot more exciting than mergers or even trading if you ask me.

3.) PSU is ranked #1 in WSJ's survey of Fortune 500 companies as to where to find the best applicants. They also get their fair share of placements into sales/trading on Wall Street. (I am not sure about IBD)

Nov 29, 2010
IlliniProgrammer:

IP's bottom line:

1.) PSU and Michigan are both excellent schools. The smartest kid to graduate Michigan is probably going to be smarter than the smartest kid at Harvard in a little more than 1 out of every 2 years. (Mind you Michigan is bigger so that helps it.)

2.) You'd have to be crazy to want to go into investment banking at this point. The industry is cannibalizing itself and we need smart people to go off and work at Fortune 500 companies and become the country's next crop of CEOs in 15-20 years. Sitting in front of a computer and working on Excel every day when you could be in the field figuring out which oil fields to explore or where to site the next solar plant or nuclear reactor doesn't seem all that cool. Finance isn't just about mergers- it's also about building new things and creating the energy foundation for the economy for the next fifty years. Not to mention space-based solar arrays if we ever get carbon nanotubes strong enough to build a space elevator. I think all of that could be a lot more exciting than mergers or even trading if you ask me.

3.) PSU is ranked #1 in WSJ's survey of Fortune 500 companies as to where to find the best applicants. They also get their fair share of placements into sales/trading on Wall Street. (I am not sure about IBD)

PGE is hiring like crazy for their alt energy group... going to all the major b schools... has not been like that since the enron days

Nov 29, 2010

i am sure the biz majors are sitting with you too..... well not the ross ones..

Nov 29, 2010

i am leaving trading within the year.... cheese has def moved

Nov 29, 2010

think Jerome Marrow come on...use that soft major.... dont let me down.... catchy come back...

Nov 21, 2010

? What is your question? How many beers have you downed at this pt? I can barely understand your last 4-5 posts.

Nov 29, 2010

thats the best you got.. come on.. i like a kid with some fight in him...

Best Response
Nov 20, 2010

Anthony,

While he didn't insult everyone fro Penn State, he certainly did insult me without actively giving me a "Fuck You." Having already admitted that I am one of many Penn State graduates working on the street, his belief that we are a bunch of backwater hicks with no understanding of even the most basic distinctions within the financial world definitely angered me. He has implied that Penn State grads have found their way onto Wall Street by sheer luck and don't deserve it. His incompetence towards anything that isn't a target is insulting enough and shows a lack of understanding that life is not where you went to school, but the hunger and drive you have to succeed regardless of where you graduate. I highly doubt he went to the precious target school in the target program that he so lovingly covets. And poor, poor, pitiful me, a Penn State graduate who, in Marrow's mind, took a job away from a kid from a target school.

As to you, Mr. Marrow,

You know where I went for my UG career and you know where Anthony went, yet we are both part of the Street. Time to come clean and let us know about your major and your undergraduate alma mater. Otherwise, I'll just assume that you couldn't get into whatever business school you applied to and were unable to transfer into it futher down the road, forcing you to get a non-business related degree, like art history. I'm fine with that assumption.

Now, to be blunt, I do not like you. Quite frankly, I find you to be a rather inane, childish fool with illusions of grandeur who will crash and burn before you realize it. You do not strike me as the kind of person who likes the idea that there are kids out there who go to "non-targets", as you so aptly describe it, that will do far more than you ever will. I find you to be an annoyance with no concept of reality. I find you to be the type of person whose opinion is extremely biased, the likes of which can only be compared to some of the worst trolls on WSO. Simply put, you sir, are just like Van Owen.

However, being a gentleman and a scholar, I will not let that interfere with my response to your outright dislike of Penn State and any school that isn't a target of Wall Street. I will simply state this, wherever you went to school, whatever you think, at the end of the day, you live and die by your ability to produce, no matter what role you are in. It doesn't matter whether you had a 4.0 from Harvard or a 4.0 from a complete non-target, the real world is completely different from the Ivory Tower ideology that you so clearly cling to.

Lets look at what you said and dissect it down.

So you went through that whole rant to repeat the same shit everybody else said? Are you not aware enough to see how full circle it all is? Michigan has overall smarter students because it is a better school and, in part of its good academics, it gets recruiters to visit the school and make it a semi-target to target for various banks. PSU and OSU are not known to be bastions of academic excellence in comparison to every single target and on top of that, have not generated a large number of alumni that go to work on the street.

Your reasoning is really no different than anybody else's here. The advice about asking people what they like about it is equally worthless--they don't really have a good comparison do they? Look at all these PSU kids talking about how excellent and rigorous their academics are.... I mean that is about as laughable as it gets.

So, let me get this straight. If I understand you correctly, you seem to solely focus on targets schools. I guess that means that unless you go to the premier Tier 1 Schools in the Tier 1 Target programs, it doesn't matter what Non-Target or Semi-Target you go to, you won't get a job on Wall Street. Am I understanding that right?

Now, lets look at the smarter student comment. Again, blind bias that indicates you know nothing about the student body makeup of Penn State, nor are you even attempting to compare apples to apples by comparing both the Penn State's University Park campus, instead of the entire 20+ campus system, to UMich's Ann Arbor Campus, instead of its 3 campus system. Clearly, Penn State has a much larger student base to compare against. This also doesn't reflect that 80% of Penn State's students are from Pennsylvania versus the 66% from Michigan that attend UMich. Find a way to compare apples to apples and you come off a bit smarter than you actually are.

n=1, sweet. Look at the overall numbers and what the point of my posts has been. PSU = shitty placement and uphill battle. I know that they don't really teach you how to understand the context of comments, but it is important here.

There are 6000 kids in their undergrad bschool and probably more outside of that who have interests involving finance. The fact that a tiny number of kids get in, many of whom are likely athletes or have strong connections to the street to begin with, doesn't make it a good school for recruiting. As I said, the people I know personally who went to PSU, did well, and ended up at good places (ie top tier IB analyst program) slaved away all year and during their 3 college summers. On the other hand, I know dozens of people from my school who ended up in similar positions without having ever even done an internship in finance.... good luck doing that from PSU. Shit there are hundreds of kids from my high school graduating class who went to PSU, are plenty smart, and did great, but have had dreadful times getting top tier finance interviews, let alone jobs.

Again, way to assume that the entire population has the desire to work on Wall Street or is unable to get into any firm by their own merit and strengths. Of the 6,000 that are in Smeal, do you realistically think that every single student has a desire to be in finance? The answer is no. And once you finally acknowledge the branch system, you again fail to make an apt comparison. Your sample size at Ross, given its smaller size, does not make a fair comparison against a larger state school. You can skew the statistics from a smaller school to bend to your will than you can the statistics from a larger school. IF you are going to make such baseless statements, at least be considerate of the realities of what the entire student base are looking for. So... give me a good set of statistics before you make any baseless statements. Try that one on for size.

On to the second point you made, good for your friends. I know Penn Staters that ended up on Wall Street without having any finance related internships in Front Office positions. Oh, and I just learned something about you. By your own statement, it sounds as though you are from Pennsylvania. It sounds like either you are seriously exaggerating about your graduating class or you grew up in either the Philadelphia, Pittsburgh or Harrisburg areas, and would be extremely amused if you went to Red Land High School or Franklin Regional. So, clearly there is a bit of hidden anger and bias that you are presenting, most likely because you have a deep seeded regret about not enjoying life instead of slaving away at it at a "target school" in a non-target major. I know people that got 3.8s at Penn State without having to slave away, had fulfilling social lives and are content to work on Wall Street, in consulting or wherever they got work, and others that slaved away, sold their souls and got nothing for it. You're talking about the natural order of things, with no real differentiation between some jackalope from Harvard or a genius that went to a state school. Again, your clear bias becomes more apparent without any proof given your small worldview.

And on to your famous list of points... oh, your points...

My point(s):

-PSU is not a target, meaning there is extremely little to no on campus recruiting for FO positions in IB or S&T.
-It has relatively poor placement in finance compared to Ross and even UIndiana (perhaps even Wisconsin). This is related to above.
-People that do end up making it into a good finance gig from PSU, if not already having some intangible (ie good D1 athlete) or a strong connection to the street, have to work much harder than those of equal status at a different school (like Ross or somewhere else).
-There are nearly 6000 people at the undergrad business school--even if 10 or even 20 kids do make it into a FO high finance position (not true, but let's pretend that many did make it), that is quite poor placement relative to many other schools and those individuals likely would have made it from another more targeted school with substantially less hardship.

The first point, I would disagree with. So would the Wall Street Journal.
The second and third points, again I refer to the misconception of the statistics you use. Please enlighten me what the difference between 20 kids from Ross getting into FO positions and 20 kids from Penn State getting positions?

Oh wait, you can't without quoting me an inflated statistic. Let me refer you to something called the absolute. It doesn't matter what the total acceptance ratio is if only 20 FO positions were taken by kids that went to Ross versus 20 FO positions that were taken by kids that went to Smeal. At the end of the day, while the ration may be lower, the absolute number of jobs taken is still the same. Percentages are only descriptive until you look past them at the underlying values. Never trust the percentages until you can firmly back up your numbers with accurate statistics for the entirety of a given population. This is basic research 101, or do you not learn that in Art History?

LMAO

Everybody.... STOP!

Jim Motherfucking Cramer has put his stamp of approval on a fucking student run investment club..... End of discussion.

Seriously, referencing him to validate your club... That should tell everybody here the value of a PSU finance education. I am not kidding.

I'm not even sure how I should approach that statement. What does Cramer have to do with anything? However, his validation is surprisingly good to have. This is the validation from an Ex-Goldman Partner who ran a successful hedge fun, managed a major financial website, runs his own charitable foundation, and is worth more than 50 Million. I don't see what the problem is with it? Yes, he's a douchebag that does individual investors wrong, but this is a man who grew up in Pennsylvania, graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard and went on to get his J.D. from Harvard Law. Your attempt at discrediting Penn State just further reinforces our school's ability to stand with the big dogs. Clearly you are just as uninformed as Cramer is good at losing investors money. This has the same equivalence of a guy like Kravis giving $100MM to his Alma Mater. It's support by a major figure in the industry, and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's quite a nice accolade for a bunch of undergraduates to receive.

And re: a better job, if that is the justification you make in your head, that is pretty pathetic. With that said, I have great doubts that you have a 'better' job and are likely not in the same industry to begin with....

No offense to Rufio, but I am quite certain that Monty was referring to another WSO user. Who it may be is only for Monty to know. If I recall, Rufio is currently ending his career at Penn State, so it makes no sense to even assume that it's Rufio we are discussing.

Seeing as you are a trader with a BS degree from a "Target" school, I guess I should be bowing down to you for advice on what I do since I went to a "non-target" school. I'm sure you can give me the absolute best advice on how to manage portfolios and effectively make sure I properly manage risk. Poor, poor, pitiful me, poor, poor pitiful me. It seems as though I reduced to asking an Art History Major for career advice. Wait, no... ultimately, you keep digging your hole and burying yourself deeper into the mud. Until you can present an unbiased opinion that doesn't resort to some of the classless comments you have made and are not an asshole about it, you'll just end up ignored like poorly behaving child.

Latitude,

Well, we did give the OP our honest opinion. If you also saw, I was vocal to say that I wouldn't trade my four years at Penn State for anything. I would not get rid of any experience I had, be it studying all night at Pollock, seeing the RZA and ODB at The Crowbar or enjoying my nights out carousing with friends. While it is important to consider what you want to do for the rest of your life, college is also meant to be enjoyed. I have stories that reflect that. I also have the grades to prove I worked my ass off. Consider

I'm just going to point this out only once. Look at the respective sizes of the two schools, and you do the math. Stop proving that you are less intelligent than a mentally handicapped orangutan tripping face on acid. Now, assuming you are right in implying your 20% of the graduating class, that means, 55 people in a class of ~275 work on Wall Street. Assuming that the same number of people work on the street from Penn State, you are looking at ~4% of a total graduation class of 1,500. See how statistics can create a clearly misguided view of the world?

Seeing as all you care about is academics, if I were to discuss with a potential UMich grad, since I happen to find it as a good ice breaker, how would you handle these interview questions? Now let me ask you this, how is life at UMich going? How is the Maize and Blue doing? Are you guys looking forward to firing another coach and proving you can't really hang with the big dogs in the Big Ten? How's the 3-5 conference record treating you? Just because you go to Ross doesn't mean you are not excused from being a well rounded, well educated student.

To the OP,

The best piece of advice I can give you about college is to go where you feel most comfortable. You have four years to live your life, so enjoy it. Work hard for the future, but make sure you have time to enjoy life.

Nov 21, 2010

TL;DR all that shit---though seriously? You say I either grew up in Philly, Pittsburgh, or Harrisburgh? lol yep, one of the 3 biggest cities in the state the encompass prob 90-95% of the population, really sticking your neck out there with that guess. Yes, I grew up in one of those areas and my high school had 3000-5000 kids to give you a nice wide number.

How is this an opinion thing? Either Wall St firms go and recruit on campus or they don't. In this case, they don't. The fact you reference that extremely poor WSJ article just shows that you really don't know what you are talking about because it has been ripped to shreds already for poor journalism.

I am from Pennsylvania and, outside of trolling you idiots when you have your panties in a bunch, I have numerous times said that Penn St. is not a bad school by any means and I know extremely intelligent and capable people that go there. The OP asked which school is best for IB. Morons have been irrationally defending PSU for whatever reason. Is it a top state school? Sure. It is not comparable to Ross or even Michigan as a whole though and the recruitment certainly isn't close to the best for the Big Ten WITH REGARDS TO FINANCE.

And I'll say it again because I can, I never insulted the Penn State campus, but rather, the moron posters in this thread (2-3 of them), that don't have any reading comprehension skills to begin with to understand what this original poster was even asking.

Someone's value as a person is not based on where they went to school by any means. I have never said anything of the kind even though people in this thread continue to harp on it irrationally and baselessly. My 'target vs non-target' comments (outside of trolling anthony for being a fool who didn't read) have been with regards to the quality of the schools themselves and the recruitment. Target schools are targets in large part because of better academics to begin with and objectively have more firms come for serious OCR. This is an objective, non-opinionated fact. If you work hard, you can succeed anywhere, but you sure as shit are setting yourself far back and are going to need to work a lot harder in the recruitment process even compared to peer (other Big Ten) schools.

Nov 29, 2010

Someone's value as a person is not based on where they went to school by any means. I have never said anything of the kind even though people in this thread continue to harp on it irrationally and baselessly. My 'target vs non-target' comments (outside of trolling anthony for being a fool who didn't read) have been with regards to the quality of the schools themselves and the recruitment. Target schools are targets in large part because of better academics to begin with and objectively have more firms come for serious OCR. This is an objective, non-opinionated fact. If you work hard, you can succeed anywhere, but you sure as shit are setting yourself far back and are going to need to work a lot harder in the recruitment process even compared to peer (other Big Ten) schools.

If it's a Big Ten school, it's got pretty darned good academics. Particularly PSU.

Penn State and Michigan both give you roughly the same shot at getting onto Wall Street. However, Michigan has a stronger national reputation than Penn State particularly when it comes to finance and business. It's also the frigging Harvard of Chicago, hence your view on it.

How is this an opinion thing? Either Wall St firms go and recruit on campus or they don't. In this case, they don't. The fact you reference that extremely poor WSJ article just shows that you really don't know what you are talking about because it has been ripped to shreds already for poor journalism.

Largely by undergrads from target schools who post on this forum. In North Korea, I'm sure Obama's assertions that NK has nukes have gotten ripped to shreds, too.

And I'll say it again because I can, I never insulted the Penn State campus, but rather, the moron posters in this thread (2-3 of them), that don't have any reading comprehension skills to begin with to understand what this original poster was even asking.
....
TL;DR all that shit---though seriously?

For someone with a liberal arts degree, you don't come off as all that qualified to judge folks on reading comprehension.

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