Response when Yelled At
I know this may not happen to everyone but what would be you guys' response when getting yelled at by VP/MD?
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It's totally unprofessional and rude, and unfortunately not unusual in investment banks. Two things to consider. 1) did you really screw something up; and 2) how the VP/MD handled it
You've got to address both. Show your maturity if it happens, and when he/she is done yelling, apologize for getting them so upset, tell them what you will do to address the immediate problem, and go do it.
Later that day or the next day you can address the question of fault and how it was handled. Depending on the relationship you have with the person, you can let them know that being yelled at in front of your co-workers was quite shocking and demotivating. If you don't have enough history with that person, better to use a more senior intermediary who can tell him/her who can deliver that message.
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I'm making it up as I go along.
This job is full of so many pussies now. I understand if it is a girl, but if you actually do something wrong you should take it like a man, apologize and go on. Maybe I am the only one, but getting yelled at lights a fire under my ass whereas getting told "you did a great job, but you need to make sure X doesn't happen again" just makes you think you did a good job when you didn't
thats interesting because it actually fits into the male paradigm. we actually need to get yelled at to do work.
scientifically proven
Additionally, this advice only applies to VP/MD's. I will yell right back at an associate as typically the inept ones yell when they know they are really at fault. As long as you know your standing in the group is better than the associate, never worry about going toe to toe with them.
"This job is full of so many pussies now..."
"Take it like a man..."
What the hell are you guys talking? Since when is apologizing and moving on called "taking it like a man".? You guys are the ones without balls.
If my (or any other) associate/VP/MD were to yell at me, I would tell him to go f*ck himself. Ain't no one gonna yell at me at work for any reason.
I'm making it up as I go along.
Here's what you do:
http://www.microsoft.com/enable/training/windowsxp/keyboardlayout.aspx
This will change his keyboard layout to this:
He'll probably burn a couple hours trying to figure out whats up and hauling IT in to fix it.
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Formermd – you have once again shown how worthless you are. A 23 year old kid telling an md that he isn’t “comfortable” being yelled at? Give me a fucking break.
YES MASSA
Depends on the situation.
ie. I used to work with a SR VP who was very very alpha. He went off on me one day and at first I was like WTF, this is bullshit, unprofessional etc... then when I really thought about it, the SRVP expects alot from himself and alot from the people he works with. What he expected from me was not too far off from what he expects from himself. I didn't take it to heart and just worked harder. I actually enjoyed whenever I worked with him because he always expects alot out of you, and obviously sometimes thats a double edged sword... and you either deal with it or you don't work with one of the rock stars in the firm.
On another instance, a MD bitched me out in an internal meeting. This MD was pretty abrasive and often times would have verbal altercations with others. Not only that, but he was a real shit fuck. He would take a jab at you, and keep going back and forth and at the end, he'd just laugh at you and be like "ok ok, what are you getting so worked up about?" I saw him do this countless times with other people. One could interpret it as just being playful, but more often than not it was condescending. When he called me out, I said "dont talk to me like that. You may butt heads with X and Y from time to time, but I dont want to be spoken to like that nor do I speak to you like that."
End of story. He did his same "woah woah, why is everyone getting so heated in here" kind of thing. It helped that I knew how he was and already knew how I would deal with him if he ever came at me. I think it also got me some points with seniors and to see me stick up for myself. An obvious reason this didn't end badly was because #1- his criticism was clearly not a valid point, if I were in the wrong, I would have had to more or less take any shit he flung at me. Additionally, he tries making light of the altercation to make you seem petty. If the other person has a huge ego, you're not going to want to counter-call him out in front of everyone.
Its more specific to the person. You have to know how to manage relationships, and its important to demonstrate that you're not going to set a precedent for being disrespected. That being said... I know for a fact there is an MD I work with, when and if he ever loses his temper on me, Ill just sit there and take it and I won't be able to say shit to him unless its worth losing my job over.
Haha dude, MD's like it when you jab back at them a little bit...
However, if you fucked up...you fucked up...and you probably deserve it
Quick story:
I knew a kid who worked in Lev Fin (he left, but not for this reason, and it was his choice, but moving on). As he told it to me, one of his VPs (who wasn't even a VP that frequently staffed him, but rather one that came over when his analysts were way too jammed and the staffer said go elsewhere) bitched him out quite openly and quite loudly almost every time they worked on a project together. My friend was actually a strong analyst in the group and after being reamed really hard in front of a number of other LF bankers, who decided he had enough. He went to talk to the staffer not to bitch and whine, but to say that he just didn't want to work with X - he chewed him out unnecessarily and frequently in front of others. The staffer politely apologized for the rudeness of the VP but continued by saying something along the lines of, "this is banking, X is under a LOT of pressure and you are going to have to deal with it - is it always the right way to handle the situation, probably not, but it is what it is. You will work with him if he needs an analyst and if you are the one available for staffing and that will be that - if you don't like it, I'm sorry, but you are an analyst - he is a VP and brings in business." And that was the end of that convo.
Sorry for the lengthy story, and I know this is not always the case, but listen, if you want to be a banker, you have to be ready to deal with a lot of type A personalities that like things done their way and like it done ASAP, and correctly. If you don't like the stress, pressure, and, when you screw up (or when sh*t rolls downhill and lands at your feet) sometimes getting reamed, this may not be the business for you. Is every senior banker like this, absolutely not, but you do run into them from time to time - even the nicer ones snap if under enough pressure at different points in the year. My advice: bitch to anyone who will listen, keep your head in the game, buckle down, and rock the next assignments or the corrections. If you have an MD that likes some back and forth ribbing, that's different, but if you are in the wrong place, or just wrong, deal with it - it's one project, one day.
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One of my friends almost lost his job because of a bad first project with a dickish VP.
But really, it all comes down to getting your work perfect the first time.
If you know you made a mistake say you're sorry and it won't happen again. If there's another reason then speak up.
read 'How to Win Friends and Influence People'....I'm dead serious. This book is 80 years old and still proves that common sense is never common. Anybody who wants to make it far in business should study it.
^^ great recommendation, yesman. It should be required reading.
I worked with an MD at my firm exclusively and ended up quitting because of his abusive nature. It didn't help that the Associate would throw me under the bus any time he could, and I was still given top bucket in both of my years at the firm.
Basically, it comes down to who you work for. I could have never told my MD to "go fuck himself" - he would have freaked out. During the times I got chewed out, I just had to sit there and take it. One time I spoke up and tried to defend myself and a typical 2 minute chew out turned into a 30 minute heated debate.
I'd recommend just keeping your mouth shut and saying you are sorry and let your work speak for itself. If you consistently produce solid work and you are still treated like dirt, talk to your staffer or group head about changing your situation. And if they can't help you - quit. Life is too short to waste away your life in a cubicle thinking about how much you hate your life.
I remember a Summer Intern from a target last year who almost cry after my MD yelled at him (and me) during an internal meeting. The intern played it like "what? I don't get your point of view?"...BAD TRY...My MD was so pissed I thought he was going to punch him in the face! He didn't...
Easy to say, hard to do but sometimes you just have to be patient and if you continually produce good work, sooner or later, you will earn some respect.
First of all, there is no ONE right answer to this question.
It all depends on so many factors like the specific circumstance, who the VP/MD is, what your own rank at the bank is, which bank you work for, the group culture, and what the normal relationship between the person yelling and yourself is.
Everyone responds differently to criticism and not all criticism is created equal.
Second, if you do your job right (i.e., DON'T SCREW UP), there is no reason anyone will yell at you.
Wow, I can't believe that you people think that getting yelled at work is a normal course of business. No one should yell at you at work for any reason; it's just a fucking job.
The only time you may deserve to be yelled at is if you fuck up so badly that you deserve to be fired, and even then you shouldn't be yelled at but simply fired.
But if you are getting yelled at for making a typo in a pitchbook or some other stupid shit like that then you should stand up for yourself and not just simply apologize and sit quiet.
I pity you fools!
Somehow, in all the industries in America, only investment banking accepts bosses who treat people like sht, as if it's the only way to make money or succeed at business. I had a boss like that, took her bullsht for 14 months, found a new job and quit. I agree with stk123, if you're yelling at someone because of a typo in a pitchbook, then you are a TOOL and probably aren't an effective manager or business associate.
That being said, yeah, you have to learn to accept criticism, often condescending, unfair criticism, especially when you're under 25. It's very difficult to get any kind of respect when you look like a "young person." And often times, middle and senior level people will throw their analysts under the bus because they believe their own careers are more important than how the analyst looks in front of everyone else. It's a fact of life. But the best solution: don't be that person when you're the Associate/VP/MD.
Have only properly gotten yelled at once by an MD and that was over the phone so it did limit the impact. I was very pissed off though but the guy (who is normally pretty chilled out) realised himself that he shouldn't have shouted and started trying to be friendly towards the end of the conversation.
As people said it does depend on the situation and who the person is. In my case even though it wasn't actually fully justified the fact that it was late at night, the person was travelling and it was out of character for them I just took it and moved on. If it happened again though I would certainly bring it up afterwards.
In general though shouting at a single person isn't deemed acceptable (vs an MD shouting at the vp assoc. and analyst that the book sucks for example), HR comes down hard on that stuff due to all the court cases there have been - I have heard of people supposedly having had to have talks with HR over their reputation. Also heard a story of an MD who got fired for throwing something at somebody.
I've been trading for a couple years. It's a demanding job where if I fuck up, I can cost the desk real money.
A lot is demanded of you, which is why they pay you more than other jobs. You aren't allowed to make mistakes - so when you do, you will get crushed. Take it, then go back to work, no use seething quitely. If you fucked something up, take responsibility and tell them exactly how you are going to fix it. "I'm sorry" doesn't mean shit, take care of the problem.
Guys, guys, Even summer interns get yelled at. I seriously don't understand how any of you guys have been in front office at a BB without seeing people absolutely getting yelled at once in a while.
Its even worse in trading where people yell at each other. Seeing researchers and traders yell at salespeople is really funny too.
Since we're on this topic, I'm kind of curious, how profane does the workplace tend to be? eg can you talk to an associate+ and refer to the fucking XYZ? I imagine the trading floor might be on the crazier side
Yes people do got yelled at a lot in banking. Does this mean that it's justifiable and junior people should just take it? No. MD once yelled at me because he's in a bad mood. I told him that there's no reason for him to treat me this way and I left the room immediately. I told staffer and he took my side.
Getting Yelled At (Originally Posted: 02/28/2010)
It hasn't happened to me yet (from my experience so far), but what's the worst anyones been yelled at work by a senior person; and for what?
Did you used to work at BAML....or PipperJeffray?
I was told by my MD that I wasn't "solid, like Stelco steel" and that I was more like "shitty Chinese steel."
tell him Chinese steel is good, lol
double posted
^^ u work at GS?
I wish,
double post, bleh screwin up chain
I was blamed for an incorrect booking which showed a loss of a couple hundred grand in the trader's book - it was the freaking product control guy who didn't match up the trades, there wasn't actually any loss. The trader came up to me, put his finger in my face, and told me if I didn't sort it out ASAP I would end up in "dangerous territory."
I'm a girl BTW
^^ did he proceed to PIITB?
^^ Tell him chinese steel is probably what's holding up that office building you're in
Yelled at 24/7 for things they didn't teach me/tell me to do but say they did? (Originally Posted: 10/09/2015)
Is this the norm?
I just started as a junior trader on the desk 3 months ago but have been increasingly yelled at and reprimanded for things that nobody even told me to do / taught me to do in the first place?
The intern was in charge of getting me up to speed with end of day processes and reporting and I have been doing exactly as he has taught me. But recently the senior traders have repeatedly found problems in how I have been doing it and given me absolutely sht for it, even though they acknowledge that the intern wasn't told to do some of these things and that I learnt everything from him? They just tell me that I should have known anyway? Certain things they just tell me they have told me about it before but honestly never happened.
When the intern became part-time (2 days a week), I took over around 2 hours worth of daily work from him. And when the MA changed rotations, I took over around another 2 hours worth of daily work from him. The desk is pretty much in love with the intern because he does projects for individual traders. I spend 80% of my time doing e-pricing + e platform projects/reporting for the boss and really have close to zero time to do projects for the traders. I did a pricer from scratch for a new currency for one of the traders and she didn't even bother taking a look at it (as been 2 months since I built it for her)?
I am by no means retarded and even the head of trading for the region (along with all the traders) have said that my understanding and view of the markets are very on point. They (obviously) haven't let me have a book yet but I've been papertrading with tiny SL limits given by a trader and have been making decent paper PnL (300-400k a month).
They tell me that they likely won't be keeping me past my contract because I'm not detail-oriented enough due to the issues with end of day processes. But I feel like that is complete bs?
Am so frustrated - where am I going wrong and how do I fix it?!
Why don't you just talk to one of the senior traders about this? Maybe ask if they have a few minutes at end of the day or something? I feel like if you take the time to explain this the way you did to us, they would try and help you out.
Good luck
How long is the contract for? They're already telling you that you won't be converted into a FTE?
Traders hate when you're not detail oriented like messing up a lunch order and you'll get shit for it
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