The Real Estate Job Hunt - How are people doing?
I'm curious to see how other WSOer's job search for CRE is going. Are people seeing a lot of success or struggling?
I'm curious to see how other WSOer's job search for CRE is going. Are people seeing a lot of success or struggling?
Career Resources
I'm not on the hunt, but have observed the market for Analysts/Associates is explosive right now. Can't speak to more senior positions.
I'm seeing similar things as well , sometimes I go on selectleaders and there's like 15+ positions posted in a day for analysts/associates.
Can't say the same about jr roles up in good o'l Canada right now
ya .. exactly dear .. :D
I have no problems getting interviews, competition must be fierce because I make it into finals rounds/case studies/modeling tests and I have missed out on 2-3 jobs I really wanted. For every position I have interviewed they always say wow, you did so well to get here we literally got 100-200 applicants.
From experience I believe most companies require Argus and some end up telling me they have excel templates(which would be no problem anyway). So there you go young guys or anyone looking to break in.
where are you seeing these postings? Or are you going through recruiters/personal network?
I've done cold emailing, personal network, selectleaders, indeed
What level jobs are you looking at that are requiring Argus.. Analysts/Associates?
I recently interviewed for two positions that wanted 3+ years of experience when I only had two years and got offers from both firms.
What part of CRE?
A multifamily equity fund and lifeco lending.
How are certificates viewed in the industry? I know NYU discontinued theirs but I know Fordham just came out with one at their RE center.
Waste of money when you could be spending the same money on credits towards a degree.
If you are trying to break in, it couldn't hurt if you don't have any experience. But if you are coming from undergrad, then a better GPA would be more helpful.
My experience echoes C.R.E. Shervin's in that I'm getting tons of traction but can't seem to lock anything down. It might be too early for the firms, even though it's crunch time for us, so we'll see.
Everyone else - don't get too caught up in analyst vs. associate. It means a whole lot less in real estate, and while some companies follow the analyst -> associate model like in banking, in others an analyst at one firm is the same as an associate at another.
Every firm I have ever interviewed with seemed to have a very informal recruiting process. Are you in an MBA program or MSRE? I would also agree that titles are not as important in RE and add that there seem to be less titles that were created to be "promotions" that go along with a bump in pay.
MSRE. I will say a lot of the big REPE firms have a more formalized recruitment process, but the development firms I'm targeting are anything but formal in recruitment.
Lots of interviews, no offers as of yet.
Have definitely seen an uptick in analyst / associate roles within the past few months. Would be interesting to see if people added more color what types of jobs they are looking for / what their background is.
Going off this topic, since RE is such a relationship based business, what's the stance you all take when going to interviews while taking time off work to do so?
I know of people who have spoken with their firm mentioning they are looking to transition and are open about leaving which could go 50/50 depending on your relationship with your boss, and others who usually say the dentist/doctor apt routine and don't mention anything until they have an offer on hand.
Big no no to rat on someone interviewing with your firm even if you're buddies with his/her boss. That is just ultra shitty. That being said, I would always go doctor/dentist, but I would be upfront about going to grad school and at least talking through that with your boss, again depends on the nature of your relationship.
I'm not really in the market to switch jobs, but I often (twice a month or so) look at the Linkedin, Indeed, SelectLeaders, et al postings in the D.C. area (it's a really good way to gauge the market) and there just isn't much, especially in the more senior levels. Really shows that this industry--really, real estate and finance in general--is a pyramid industry where there are lots of junior-level positions but very few senior-level positions. In other words, you'd better damn well be prepared to be an entrepreneur if you enter this business because the high paid salary jobs are few and far between.
Agree. People get into those top spots and stay there for a long time.
And on the off chance a senior spot does come up (director or above), it is so often an internal or network hire that you almost don't have a chance otherwise.
This may be completely morbid (actually it is) but this is a problem through every industry(banking, medical, real estate) because baby boomers just won't die -_-
Been looking for the past 4-5 months now, its been picking up quite a bit since the start of the year. A lot of places I applied to earlier in the year and at the end of last year are getting back to me now, but still no offers quite yet.
I've been grinding for a while trying to make headway and network (~30 interviews). As of late, I've been passed on at the end for another candidate. Competition is intense.
Very true.
30 interviews? 30?!! Geesh.
Sounds like you have the nuts and bolts, but might not be seen as a "fit" if you're getting all the way through and then chopped off at the end each time. Could be wrong but I've seen it happen
It is mind blowing to see the competitiveness this industry has especially in NYC. I see maybe ~5 Analysts jobs per day meaning total for whether it's Acquisitions, AM, Credit, etc. Really not much at all. Take those 5 or so jobs and now think of all the candidates ranging from people coming out of UG, MSREs, people from brokerage, lending, MBA, random experiences, etc. fighting for it.
It really is network or die out there.
I just wrapped up my job search in September of 2016. I talked with a few headhunter's and hiring managers about how competitive the process was. One headhunter told me they received 5,000+ applications for a single analyst level job posting at a name brand RE firm......
I'm sure that is on the extremely high side but still.
Effing christ.. lol
LinkedIn tells you amount of apps submitted for jobs if you apply straight from there. I remember seeing a couple Acquisitions Analysts jobs in the 3,500 apps range.
Going for office tenant rep or investment sales, whichever comes first......Declined some small shops, looking to go big. 9+ months en counting.
Still positive.
This thread is extremely sobering....
Yea tell me about...I created the thread hoping to gain some insight and ultimately discovered I'm screwed for my job search lol
Screwed = taking all this food for thought and recalibrating your search and hunting methods. Half full mentality!
Yea bit a knee-jerk comment, definately right on recalibrating - It really is Network or Die as jtl1002 said
Network, one of my more recent job interviews was over lunch instead of in a conference room.
Just wondering, what top shop uses Argus?? Is this mainly a US thing as in europe having seen Oaktree, Blackstone ect. models they are all excel based.
The two usually work hand in hand, where the Argus export is an input in the Excel model
Have you seen people use this in Europe? Aside from red tape Government stuff where they might be required. Also why would you want to use it, excel can do pretty much anything haha?
Actually just landed a job as an analyst to start after I graduate in May.
Just got my first offer today, analyst role at a REIT. MSRE student with one internship under my belt, graduating this May.
congrats!, was the internship during the school year/summer? Was the REIT at your school's OCI or did you apply on your own?
Internship was over the summer, REIT interviewed on campus, but pre-selected interviewees.
Maguire Properties?? NICE!!!
I just had probably the most basic excel/modeling test and I fucked up lol
Was my first I've ever had to do so whatever onto the next one.
Happened to me on my first one. Don't worry, master the basics and you'll get the next one.
I literally fkin blanked. Plus, there was a tab for basic office assumptions and building a 10 year projection and I forgot to include the base rent bump lol. I have never built any excel office model before aside from basic use of Argus in a class.
I shouldn't even had taken a test. This was as entry level as you can get for not even an investor or developer. They are like consultants. Nothing on this test can't be learned in a day on the job and now I won't get a call back most likely because of this. I wasn't that interested anyways but it sucks.
I'm not actively looking. I'm in brokerage and I've had a few firms reaching out to me directly. Have an interview next week for an acquisitions role at a REIT.
I recommend doing CCIM if you can afford it. i just recently graduated college and completed the CCIM 101 and used it to network for positions. I just interviewed for an internship with a local developer , which I have a high chance of getting, because of someone I met in that class. Besides the education, the networking in those classes is worth their weight in gold.
I took it online :/ haha.
Denied from another job today. Still on the grind though.
Also just denied from another job, don't worry happens to the best of us, and also me.
Right there with you both. Yesterday was a bloodbath.
Talked to a developer today who mentioned he does not even hire interns unless they are going/have their MSRE. Well there's that.. lol
I've heard of a few places like this, the fact of the matter is that a lot of the RE industry is "On the Job" training and learning. I studied RE for undergrad and can say that I learned more my first six months in the industry than I did in school. That being said I guess there is some kind of demand for advanced degrees.
It's all part of what @Virginia Tech 4ever" calls the real estate credentials arms race. Y'all don't get the jobs you're qualified for because you don't have my qualifications, and I don't get the jobs I'm qualified for because I don't have a Wharton or Harvard MBA.
Feel for you guys and this is not to sound Doushey lol but it feels good to know there's plenty others even with more experience then me getting denied.
Was denied an offer today, office tenant rep position. No where to go but forward though.
Undergrad looking for an internship right now, not really getting much. Continuing to search for companies and send out apps.
Landed a summer gig at a solid development company in Dallas yesterday. I'd put 60-70 apps since the fall, made it deep into interviews w/ a few companies only to get turned down, and wasn't very optimistic.
I've been in touch with this company since I met one of the managing principals at ULI Fall. Networking pays dividends, I doubt I would have gotten the position if I hadn't put myself on their radar for the last 6 months.
Congrats. ULI Fall conferences are fantastic for this reason (not to mention eating and drinking in a new city). These are my favorite types of success stories.
Seems like Cali is on a hiring rampage. Not much though here on East coast specifically NY.
I've seen probably 30-50 job postings on select leaders since January.
Not sure what level you are seeking but for specifically Analyst roles, I see maybe 1 every other day if even. (for NYC).
Sad to be a student at this time then. I got an internship at a brokerage for this summer. Looking to network for a acq/am internship for next summer.
Especially in Canada
Six weeks into the process with mega developer. Had final interview last week with CEO. Hope to hear decision this week. I don't have much hair left to pull out.
Hope it works out! Let us know.
You met with a CEO of a mega developer? Do you mean a really big firm or just guys who do high-profile projects? The former would surprise me
I have to be strategically ambiguous at the moment because its really easy to figure out with one or two google searches, but it's the former. Sorry for lack of info.
I'll follow up if it is a success or failure regardless.
Wait listed as the search for other candidates with more development underwriting experience. Told to hang tight for 3 weeks. 2/10 confidence.
UPDATE: After 4 months, I did not get the job. Internal hire. WTF
delete
Mind me asking what firm ?
I'd rather not say, the firm is rather small. All i can say is it focuses on multi-family with deals ranging from $50MM-$100MM.
Was just let go from my Analyst gig - ALOT of openings but would also assume that there are a lot of applicants.
What was the role and why were you let go?
It's a bloodbath out there. I'm an analyst with a couple years of experience, just a bachelors degree. Seems every lateral analyst or senior analyst role I apply to is a waste of time since they are being targets by Wharton MBA type folks.
Do the Wharton MBAs have experience though? Experience is king unless you're going to a pretftige party.
I don't believe they have any real hands-on experience, just complex case studies, research papers, and summer internships to tout.
I think it depends on where you got that said experience. If a guy has a firm on his resume that no one knows about vs a guy who just graduated from a top MBA (especially if MBA in RE such as Columbia)..the latters resume will probably have a better chance at catching the eye of the manager.
The least fun party I could imagine
I've had a couple of behavioral interviews so far and hopefully I hear back later this week or next for the final rounds. How many of you are able to tell when you've done well in the interview or connected with them? I can usually tell if I've done poorly but it's much harder to gauge if the interview went really well vs fairly well.
Currently in 1 month into the hiring process for an investment analyst position. Started with phone interview with HR and really connected well, then in person interview which lasted 3 hours, I met with 75% of the office. Total office is probably 15 people. Have been waiting 2+ weeks for my second follow up in person interview, the recruiter has stated twice now via email that the MD's at the office want me to know they're very interested.
My only disadvantage is I am still in school (graduating in may) but have very relevant experience to the role/industry, I have been interning at a boutique PERE for a while. I have a feeling the second interview is taking a while because although I felt I did very good on my first round and impressed a lot of people (even followed up with hand written thank you cards to the top dogs a few days after my in person), they are skeptical because I am younger, I feel for the past two weeks they have been shopping the market. Still have my fingers crossed that they lean my way and see my value/potential, this whole process is pure anxiety
Hopefully you get the job, and things are looking up in that regard, but I can't tell you how many times--when I was younger--that I went through a lengthy interview process and was assured that I was the top candidate, only to be left as runner-up to another candidate. In each case, I invariably took my foot off the peddle with sending out applications to other companies, thinking I had the job in the bag.
Just like in dating.. there's always that prettier girl you've had your eye on that you would probably drop the other girl you've been talking with to have your one shot at.
If anybody is looking into breaking into the agency lending space, send me a message. I might be looking for an analyst in Orange County.
Recently accepted an offer for a senior financial analyst role with a top investment sales team (think Eastdil/HFF/CBRE) in the market I wanted to be in (top 5 for product type; top 10 overall). Low six figures to get an idea of pay. Actually surfaced this from a cold email about 5 months back.
Is that base salary or all-in comp?
All-in, but skewed heavily towards base first year. After first year have potential to increase bonus upside quite a bit if perform to expectations.
What was your prior experience?
Went straight out of undergrad to a small shop for 2 years.
Recently accepted an offer for an analyst position in SoCal at a botique REPE shop with total comp around 120. Had 1.5 years post-grad experience and multiple real estate internships in college. I was getting calls to almost everything I applied to in SoCal and had to turn down interviews due to lack of time. Eventually received offers from a few shops and ended on this one.
ww93 what kind of post-grad experience do you have?
Similar RE experience
It finally happened. A developer actually asked for my SAT and GMAT/GRE scores.
lmao! If this isn't proof that RE has turned into the usual "prestigious" wall-street careers that this site is focused on (AM/ HF/ PE/ VC/ IB) then idk what is.
A developer asked me what my SAT scores were recently. I laughed at them and told them I don't even know where to start to look for those.
Yeah I'm screwed if I ever have to show my SAT.
Speaking as someone who has broken in and is working with younger contemporaries, this seems ageist. I mean at least looking at the year you graduated you could infer the age of a specific person, and hence be disqualified.
"Higher that yours, fuckstick."
I've been asked for REPE but never for a Development firm. Although a few jobs on Glocap asked for SAT/GMAT/GRE and in one. I think it's an absurd question to ask...but it's just a way to eliminate/screen candidates
were they located in Phoenix?
Big day today. 4 informal interviews where I will inevitably be told I have a great resume but they're not hiring right now. They will then want to be very helpful and generously refer me to three people that I have already met with and have gotten the same response as far as jobs go and three other referrals to companies I have already met with and have gotten the same response as far as jobs go and three other referrals to companies I have already met with and have gotten the same response as far as jobs go and three other referrals to companies I have already met with and have gotten the same response as far as jobs go and three other referrals to companies I have already met with and have gotten the same response as far as jobs go and three other referrals to companies I have already met with and have gotten the same response as far as jobs go and three other referrals to companies I have already met with and have gotten the same response as far as jobs go and three other referrals to companies I have already met with .....
keep on fighting bro. I am trying to leave my current job by May (1 full year) and I'm finding difficulty as well. Kinda regretting rejecting the internship with the publicly traded development firm I had an offer with before this job.
It'll work out. My network is absurd right now. My bank account is what's dwindling. Less than two months until graduation.
Landed an analyst spot in Manhattan at a top 10 shop.
What are the top ten brokerage firms in manhattan?
It's something that isn't hard to break into if you are determined to do so. If you are a normal, social person with decent finance skills, it is easy. That having been said, trying to work for the likes of black stone or certain divisions of Starwood out of undergrad is difficult. Just start out small and build yourself up.
What should I make of an associate inviting me (a senior) to lunch after being passed my resume by the MD/MBroker? He said lunch, discuss career goals, and how he may be able to help. (does he have an entry opp or not?) On LinkedIn, I see the experience levels of other interns turned analysts (them getting recs from this guy) and the churn looks right to get in as a summer intern and then analyst. It's a CB/CW/HFF/JLL
How can I appropriately and effectively offer my assistance?
Solid chance you won't get a job from an associate, @FrankThaTank" , so you should use this lunch to:
Make a friend. Eventually, you will break into this industry, and it is good to have friends your age in the industry.
Get contacts of other people. This associate could recommend or put you in touch with people who will actually hire you.
If he or she seems really sharp, ask about job hunting strategy. You never know what little tip you learn that will make a difference.
Good advice. This lunch is still a week out, so for something to chew on, what do you make of this guy telling me the MD "passed him my resume," after I said I'm "looking for entry opportunities?" Suspenseful wording.... I interned at a top 5 brokerage and they basically created an internship out of thin air for me and two others, when they'd never done one.
Any updates from you after things have dried up, CRE ?
Hi Guys, Well come to forum site.We have no problems getting interviews, Competition we must be fierce because I make it into finals rounds/case studies/modeling tests. We have missed out on 2-3 jobs I really wanted. For every position. We have interviewed they always say wow, We did so well to get here we literally got 100-200 applicants. We experience believe most companies require Argus and some end up telling me they have excel templates(which would be no problem anyway
Currently deciding between two internship opportunities for this summer:
Option 1 is with a small regional bank ($5B in assets) where I interned last summer in mortgage. This summer would be commercial lending focused on CRE. In a top 5 CRE market.
Option 2 is with a big commercial brokerage (CBRE/JLL/C&W), not totally sure what all this internship would entail though. Figuring that out real soon. However, this position is in a much smaller market and obviously taking this internship would be kissing any FT offer from the bank goodbye.
Conflicted because I think the brokerage would be a better name and give me some better experience, but it’s not in as good of a market and I don’t really know if brokerage is what I want to do long-term (not that commercial lending is, either). I plan on doing an MBA/MSRE within 4 years of graduating though so switching markets or jobs might not be that big of an issue for now. Any advice would be appreciated.
So I actually had the same situation where I interned in lending and was deciding whether to return for another internship. I ultimately choose to gain difference experience which I am EXTREMELY glad I did.
I think the brokerage gige is the better option given what you have said for the following reasons:
If you knew you wanted to enter lending then returning would be the no-brainer but this isn't the case.
Doing the brokerage internship will allow you gain different experience ultimately making you MUCH more marketable as a FT candidate in the future. Having both on your resume will allow for more experiences to talk about and allow you to spin yourself as more of a well-rounded candidate. If you decide you want to do Brokerage/Investment Sales then you can spin that experience. If you do so happen to want to enter lending eventually you can spin the lending experience. If you want to enter acquisitions at a REIT or a REPE you can spin that you've have multiple experiences related to real estate.
Who knows...you could end up loving brokerage. But you won't know unless you try it. Undergrad is as much about gaining relevant experience as it is about figuring out what you want to do. Doing a different internship will equip you with a broader understanding of commercial real estate and will ultimately allow you to make more informed decisions as you weigh potential FT options in CRE.
Taking the brokerage internship will allow you to build a reputation with another company and can lead to two references as opposed to only having one which is only a positive.
Taking another internship at the same place has upside only in the case you know you want to get a FT offer from that company which isn't the case currently. Taking the same internship again can also have a slight-pigeonhole affect. I say slight because internships by their nature don't usual pigeonhole someone as they are temporary in nature but it will make it harder to convince a broker or acquisitions firm in the future that you're actually interested in that and might give off a sense that lending is your actual interest given you spent two summers there.
Having (CBRE/JLL/C&W) on your resume, even in a tertiary market, is definitely a huge positive.
I also wouldn't assume you're burning your bridges with the bank completely. Obviously it changes the path for a FT offer dramatically but....approach it respectively and tell the group you previously interned with that you think it would be beneficial for you to gain different experience and see another facet of the commercial real estate industry. 9 times out of 10 your previous group would completely understand and likely support you, obviously this indicates a lessened desire in lending but it doesn't necessarily burn the bridge, if you approach it right, your previous group will likely understand. You a college kid after all, you job is too gain various experiences during your undergrad.
Ultimately the brokerage in my opinion seems to have more upside. Hope this was helpful and congrats on the offers! Many people don't even have the luxury of needing to choose so you're already on the right path!
Thanks for the thorough response! I was leaning toward brokerage but I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything stupid.
.
Well when it rains it pours. I have 4 interviews scheduled over the next two weeks: two with REPE firms, one with a developer/operator, and one with a debt/equity team. All are multifamily focused, which is where most of my experience is despite my username. Also, all were sourced through job postings, not cold calling/networking. I dont know if its a beginning of the year thing or what, but I have a positive outlook of the job market for entry/mid level positions.
Good stuff, I share your enthusiasm about the job market. Good luck on your interviews man
When people say REPE firms on here, do they mean one of the REPE 50? Or anything ranging from that to a small shop that invests using private money? I've heard people say "real estate investment firms" and then real estate private equity- is there a difference?
Good question, in my case it's a firm that manages/is currently raising multiple private equity funds. Not sure of the correct nomenclature.
As far as REPE and "real estate investment firms", I suppose they are one of the same?
My firm is looking for analysts/underwriters in multifamily underwriting in Texas. This is for a DUS lender. PM me for details.
Talked with most of the big brokerages in town, all the T1 shops aren't looking for anyone right now, one of the T2 shops that I met with let me know they probably have a spot or two I could fill. Still on the grind.
Darcy Stacom is looking for fill an Analyst or Associate roll
I don't live in New York but I would if it meant I got to sell sky scrapers. I'm a huge fan of large buildings.
Is this a joke? If not, every monkey here that's halfway interested in IS should jump at this.
Question:
I am not going to be searching for jobs until after Dec., but I am just curious:
Is the job prospecting process for Real Estate solely based on networking? And if so, how exactly do you go about networking?
So far, I have only interned with bulge bracket banks, but I want to do more development. This summer, my internship is with Wells Fargo CRE. After that, I'm unsure what to do/if I want to corner myself only to full time with Wells.
Is there a thread already about the process on this?
There are many. I'd read through this thread as a start. Then search the RE forum for "networking" and a few other keywords associated with job hunting.
Send emails to connect for advice, say you're looking for entry opportunities, and say, "attached is my resume for more background." They might pass it along and at least have it on file.
I think there's an aspect of "networking" to any job, but the degree to which it matters differs depending on the role and the firm. I had no interest in working in CRE during undergrad but landed a research role at a reputable REIT research shop through Indeed. Ironically, my warm leads at other AM/ER shops didn't pan out.
You'll have heightened success applying to a firm with an analyst class/formal campus recruiting. Btw, I don't think working for Wells CRE for your first full-time job is "cornering" yourself. Just be hungry, always be learning and networking, and more opportunities will come your way if you become unsatisfied.
Right. Thanks.
And I mean cornering myself with no other options. Wells is a great option, but I don't want it to be my only option. I'm hungry =) And yes there is an aspect of networking in every job, but the degree that it is important to Real Estate is completely different than most other jobs. ( the only similarity I can see is the entertainment industry) Especially for entry level.
Thanks for the advice.
Real Estate Analyst position in SoCal just posted on SelectLeaders. Not to knowledgeable about the company but they look credible. Just thought I would pass it along, cheers.
https://www.selectleaders.com/candidate/viewjobdetails.do?jid=51034&eid…
Don't know anything about the position, or culture, but very reputable company. They own some fantastic real estate and have done some really cool/innovative things. Reading the job description this seems like a really good opportunity.
ARE is a very reputable lab space REIT. They've got the best stuff in the best lab space/biotech cities of the US (ex: San Diego). Looks like a lot of their veterans have actual lab space/science backgrounds, so that may be some experience they are looking for in candidates. Lab space is probably as specialized a property type as it gets.
I certainly wouldn't hesitate to apply because you lack a scientific background. They will certainly have lab experts on staff (development and leasing in particular need to be familiar with tenant requirements) but from an acquisition/underwriting perspective I can't imagine it would be a prerequisite (especially not at the analyst level).
I had a final interview on Tues and the hiring manager told me right after they are going to make an offer and I should hear back in next few days.
Let me say this is by far the most anxious I have ever been lol. Still waiting.
any updates yanks?
Nothing yet.
Starting to get bit nervous, but I'm sure there's some hold up whether it's HR or something.
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Velit et non veritatis sint non minima velit repellendus. Repellat quae officia dolore et fuga impedit distinctio sunt. Veritatis laudantium fugit debitis ducimus.
Modi fuga perferendis animi possimus. Recusandae tempore quis voluptatum voluptatum sint odio quo tempore. Molestiae sunt quidem esse ea autem minus.
Aliquam odit eius et repudiandae. Ea voluptatem enim et. Amet odio quia dolores sed explicabo ipsum. Ipsa sit officia sit sunt aliquid.