Which industry group is the most interesting?

I'm currently working in Tech M&A (with a focus on software companies) and thus far it has proven incredibly boring. As if the typical drudgery of banking wasnt enough, I havent managed to get my head round all the technical jargon that gets thrown around in my group (I still have no fucking clue what "optimised systems integration" really means). As you can imagine the hours I spend googling just to work out what a company actually does adds all the more frustration to my job.

So I was just wondering which industry group would you say is the most enjoyable/offers the most interesting work?

 

I actually enjoy tech M&A..and i focus on IDM so far. But I came from an engineering background so I was very used to it.

But it really depends on what you like, consumers/retail shouldn't have that much of the technical jargon if it's something you are concerned about

 

Which industry are you interested in? Go for that. There isn't one that is universally enjoyable - it's a personal preference. If you don't have any industry preferences, try going for a multi-industry product group like M&A, LevFin, etc.

 
Slacker23:
Man... this is like asking "What's the best color?"

There should be some way to assess groups, like Energy & Financials get the most dealflow, and subsequently have to do the most work. All I want to know is which group wont leave me feeling like throwing myself off a tall building?

You know you've been working too hard when you stop dreaming about bottles of champagne and hordes of naked women, and start dreaming about conditional formatting and circular references.
 

What about industrials? The business operations seem fairly intuitive and it has the added benefit of diversity by virtue of the inherent sub-groups (automotive, manufacturing etc).

 

try working in healthcare... that'll teach you to complain about jargons when u're figuring out what kind of lymphoma he company is trying to cure or what form of protein it's trying to formulate... i never took a single biology class in my life. Just be patient and read, talk to people and try to pick it up fast. No 2 ways about it... i don't think switching to another group will help that much, prob needa change the attitude. U're in a dream group many ppl on this forum want...

 

Ha, no kidding ZIRH. Try writing a CIM for a medical technology company that develops and manufactures cerebral ultrasound devices... That'll make software M&A seem like a walk in the park.

I actually work in a software group and have worked on a variety of software deals (financings and M&A) and I really enjoy it. I think it's going to be highly dependent on where your interests lie.

 
walkio:
Defense and Aerospace does sound badass. Surely deal flow must be high?

Eh. It's interesting, but deal flow, as with every group on the Street, is highly dependent on the group. If it's a good A&D group, then deal flow will be plentiful; if the A&D group sucks, then you'll be pitching 24-7.

Commercial aero is the interesting part of A&D (to me at least), but there's not a whole lot going on. Most will fall into defense services, which is essentially government IT. Not always terribly exciting/interesting.

 
jimbrowngoU:
walkio:
Defense and Aerospace does sound badass. Surely deal flow must be high?

Eh. It's interesting, but deal flow, as with every group on the Street, is highly dependent on the group. If it's a good A&D group, then deal flow will be plentiful; if the A&D group sucks, then you'll be pitching 24-7.

Commercial aero is the interesting part of A&D (to me at least), but there's not a whole lot going on. Most will fall into defense services, which is essentially government IT. Not always terribly exciting/interesting.

I recently spoke with an A&D banker who worked with the company that developed the technology that helped to capture Osama Bin Laden. Pretty fucking badass if you ask me.

 
Best Response
jimbrowngoU:
walkio:
Defense and Aerospace does sound badass. Surely deal flow must be high?

Eh. It's interesting, but deal flow, as with every group on the Street, is highly dependent on the group. If it's a good A&D group, then deal flow will be plentiful; if the A&D group sucks, then you'll be pitching 24-7.

Commercial aero is the interesting part of A&D (to me at least), but there's not a whole lot going on. Most will fall into defense services, which is essentially government IT. Not always terribly exciting/interesting.

Agreed, A&D SOUNDS cool but a lot of it is more like who can provide the cheapest chemical toilets for troops in Afghanistan than making smart bombs and Predator drones. A lot of the coolest things I've ever looked at in relation to defense actually are banked by tech groups because they make the circuitry and other tech to enable . I also find the rhythm of the business, as driven by contracting cycles etc, to be super dull compared to a lot of other industries.

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.
 

tech is a very interesting industry, but you are just not qualified to analyze it. people with a background in their group's product area (i.e. EECS for tech) really understand the products they are researching in their respective groups, and they tend to like tir roles a lot more from what i've seen

 

C&R is the easiest group to work in. Whenever you hear about bankers doing some extra shit on the side, like producing a rap album or starting a charity for kids, it's always the C&R guys.

You know you've been working too hard when you stop dreaming about bottles of champagne and hordes of naked women, and start dreaming about conditional formatting and circular references.
 

You also need to consider which group will give you the product experience you want. There are some industry groups that mostly do equity, and others do a mix of stuff. At my bank, healthcare seems to concentrate on equity. So no matter how much I like it, my overall experience would be pretty limited. Whereas telecom at my bank does almost everything the experience there is more rounded.

 
Solidarity:
Every industry group has its ups/downs

In terms of subject matter, TMT is probably the coolest

Healthcare is great if you like doing research haha

FIG will give you the best modelling skills

TMT might be interesting in the U.S. but in Europe it is pretty boring (I have worked there). The reason is that TMT is 70% Telecoms in Europe, because there is few tech companies. Telecoms are not that exciting, it is a very dull and slow-growth business. Also telecoms are headed for a long decline given Skype & co. Media is another declining business, because you have all these newspaper companies, which just suck. Technology can be pretty cool, but who believes that these companies are worth a dime in the first place. Most of them are pretty ridiculous internet start ups. Of course you are not allowed to say that you are IPOing the next pets.com.

 

C&R is the easiest, but it is pretty boring in my opinion. I like O&G, but of course I'm a bit biased. Also, Consumer sucks because there is always a seemingly infinite list of companies you could be pitching even if you are executing quite a bit. Most of the people I know in Consumer are both miserable and bored, though I will say it would be pretty sweet to work on an M&A deal for some foreign beverage companies... that would be one transaction I would like to be a part of...

 

Kenny is spot-on with above... A&D growth mirrors the government defense budget. It's cool when you're talking about cruise missiles and F22's but it operates more so like your average industrials company.

 

You should know that infra and RE aren't really in the same buckets as other types of PE. Infra funds tend to look for more stable but lower yielding investments, so the risk profile is different. For that reason there is a bit of a stigma against it, but if you like it, screw what others think. RE can vary all over the board in terms of risk appetite and cost of capital, but most RE funds look for guys with RE experience (similar to how energy PE looks for guys with energy experience - they're just relatively specialized industries. That being said, I don't know any guys who work for RE funds who didn't do RE before, but I can think of a few who are in energy PE now that didn't do energy banking. Anecdotal evidence so YMMV). Also regarding tech, unicorns right now are getting their valuations destroyed (as it will happen when cycles turn).

Probably a bigger question outside of "which industry?" is "which job type?" Are you a people person who enjoys taking tons of initiative and building a network? Then VC/Growth Equity might be for you because the job is very sourcing driven. Are you more analytical and thrive in places where your role and responsibilities are more clearly defined? Then traditional buyout PE might be better.

 

That's a very good way to look at things. Yes, I am aware that there is some sort of stigma associated with REPE. But I didn't know there was that same stigma against Infra/power/energy?

The reason I'm here asking this ridiculously open ended question is quite frankly, I am both of those types. Now I just need information on what the market will look like for these two jobs (professionally). All else being equal, I want to be in an area where there is relatively sustained upside in market demand in the future, good compensation, and global opportunity (I may want to hop around the globe a bit).

It's tough at this juncture because I guess I want to keep all my options open, but once you go down the infra/re path I guess it'd be tough to crawl out without B-school. Infra mainly attracts me not on the basis of the asset class (although I do find it interesting) but in the sense that I can feel like I am actually building something, and everyday people will rely on the things invest in for everyday life as we know it.

 

Infrastructure/real assets has grown tremendously and will continue to do so- though I blame part of that recently on low yields. Institutional investors want cash yield and are buying infrastructure assets directly, creating competition and high valuations.

Long term - there's a growing need for major improvements/innovations in infrastructure. The question is how this need will be met - and that's the side of the table I'd want to be on. Regardless, funds who are good and participate in the space will grow and do well I believe. Just make sure your interested in it, because once you've gotten into that space it can be tough to move out of it.

 

FIG is most interesting in that it is most different. You care about different metrics covering FIG companies. Even within FIG, banks are very different from asset managers, which are very different from insurance companies, and so forth.

 
Deal Toy:
FIG is most interesting in that it is most different. You care about different metrics covering FIG companies. Even within FIG, banks are very different from asset managers, which are very different from insurance companies, and so forth.

I work at a Life Insurer as an actuarial... how do you evaluate an insurance company, Embedded Value? i think it is impossible for a banker to calculate that , they lack the brain power hahaha just kidding, but seriously, it is impossible for them, assuming they know how, they lack the flows which are not public information..

 
JulianWells:
Aerospace?

Not too fond of Industrials but damn, Aerospace and Defense is a great sector to work in. Fortunately for some of us here, associates and analysts can unofficially silo themselves into these sub-verticals right off the bat.

 

This is an interesting question and, in my opinion, driven by 2 factors: 1. Where is activity in the economy occurring? 2. What does your particular bank do well and not so well?

  1. Banking is purely a function of the broader corporate activity. Here is who is working and who is browsing ESPN: Hot Areas: a. Restructuring b. Bankruptcy c. Divestitures d. Healthcare e. Energy (solar consolidation later this year?)

Colds Areas: a. Commercial Real Estate b. Lodging/Gaming c. PE Sponsors ("Dry powder") d. TMT (yes, I disagree with Big Bucks and SF and happy to elaborate) e. Sales and Trading (Volcker rule anybody? Try finding a big prop desk these days)

  1. This all needs to be digested in the context of what your bank does good and what it does bad. Sure, there are probably some CRE people are who swamped and business is booming but this is not the norm. At the same time, there are definitely traders who are cashing in...
 

He's an idiot. No other industry has supported so many boutiques as tech has (Donald Lufkin Jenrette, Thomas Weissel, etc.) not to mention legendary groups GS TMT. Kid obviously works in bankruptcy or restructuring. Also its Oil > Energy.

 

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