Biden Student Loan Forgivness
Thoughts on Bidens plan to forgive up to $20,000 in student loans. How will this impact inflation and our economy for the next couple of years?
Aug 25, 2022Aug 25, 2022
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Comments (186)
Fucks over the actual working class, contributes to inflation, incentivizes more shitty decision-making on the part of kids who take out loans for school, doesn't do anything to address the moral hazard of the universities continually raising prices without justification (bet they announce a near $10k-20k hike for next year for some mysterious reason), and to top it all off it's a ham-fisted solution to a problem that was created by the government getting into student lending in the first place.
Fuck Biden. Fuck Dems. Fuck the academic failures who chose to waste 2-4 years of their life and now expect people who made good life decisions to bail them out.
This is a blatant bribery attempt to curry favor ahead of the midterms. It's pathetic and it won't work. Only 13% of the population has student loans which they chose to take out (myself included). Everyone else who doesn't is going to look at this as a handout to the (on average) highest wage earners in the country. I would bet this is going to politically backfire wonderfully.
I won't take this just like I didn't take the stupid stimulus checks during Covid. It's wrong.
The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly - Robert A. Wilson
Yep. Sure is. Democrats finally learning to play the game
Finally? Does no one remember Obama phones?
Kidding me? Democrats are the best at the game, they're not just now learning it. They practically wrote the rules.
The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly - Robert A. Wilson
Play the game? What? They invented the game. They literally are the party of "if i win election, I'll pay you more money!"
They have been doing this since the Great Society
based take
If you got hate in your heart let it out brother!!!!!
I totally agree. fuck all of this shit, and anyone dumb enough to vote for this shit is complicit in destroying modern civilization.
I would say anyone that does nothing is complicit. Unfortunately the ones doing most are a a special bunch, but good on them for being involved.
The people to blame are the voters who keep letting it happen. Everyone wants change but nobody does anything about it. It's a race to see who can milk the cow the most until it collapses.
The Republicans do the vast majority of the milking, but none of it goes to the average person. We went 1.7 trillion in debt for tax cuts for the ultra wealthy, and 800 billion in dept for paycheck protection that was almost entirely not used to save jobs. Bush did the same thing the last time a Republican was in charge.
Why is everyone on here deficit hawks for the middle class and the poor but mega spenders for the rich and the military?
Biggest problem IMHO is what it does to the incentive of future borrowers. Being disciplined about your debt load, maybe choosing the cheaper school or the cheaper lifestyle in school . . all starts to feel like a sucker's game when you now wonder if the money you borrow might be forgiven at some point later.
There are many threads on WSO asking whether XYZ school is worth the extra $$$. I've seen some great debates on those threads. Those days are over now. It's always worth the extra money when you might not be paying it back.
Those threads typically talk about 20k-30k in student loan debt at a state college vs 200k+ in debt at a top private school. 10k forgiveness on a 200k+ loan at 8%+ doesn't move the needle.
Agree with these points in contributing to inflation, but didn't the money supply grow 30% during trump era ?
I've called out the reckless economic decisions that resulted in lockdowns and bailouts during the onset of Covid plenty. That has literally nothing to do with this specific issue and tossing it in is a complete non-sequitur. Trump didn't use an executive order to secure those bailouts, Congress pushed them through during what many thought (I don't and never did) was an actual emergency. This student loan fiasco is purely a decree from the President to bribe a specific voting block that already leans towards voting Democrat less than 90 days ahead of midterms where the party is expecting to get flatlined like an amateur who steps into the ring with Deontay Wilder. Inflation is already a given and while you can argue semantics around how much of a needle-mover this specific amount is, you can't deny that this is making it worse.
To add insult to injury, this does nothing to actually relieve a meaningful debt burden - no one who is drowning over student debt is going to look at 10k being removed and think "wow this fixes everything". They literally picked an amount that's enough to write a massive check we can't cash while accomplishing nothing of note, it's just enough to get attention with "hey if you vote for us maybe we throw you another tiny bone". It does nothing to address the moral hazard of lending to largely leftist institutions who will just continue to the raise price of admission at a pace higher than nearly any other service/product in existence - I would be amazed if we don't see an announcement within the next year that college tuitions have gone up almost the exact amount as the loan forgiveness. If people are buying a product being promised results that it's not delivering (job opportunities, income above a certain threshold, etc.) then that's fraud, yet no one would ever suggest going after the institutions for false advertising to force them to either stop or improve what they're offering, or the politicians who put these predatory lending practices into place decades ago. It does nothing to address the flat out discrimination on a population level - this is tax money from everyone being directed towards a specific group that on average contains the highest income earners in the country, who elected to take out debt as a legal adult knowing they would be on the hook for paying it back. Why not include a 10k tax cut for everyone else? If we're just printing money to help people why not give everyone 20k? 50k? 100k? It never fucking stops. Republicans make a lot of stupid decisions when they're elected too but watching leftists try to pretend that cutting taxes and letting people keep the money they've earned is equivalent to printing money out of thin air (aka stealing it from future citizen productivity) and handing it to people they expect to vote for them.
The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly - Robert A. Wilson
&
If I may, what do you think is the best path forward for the Republican Party to continue to win elections? You posted this before the 2022 midterms, and it seems the younger generations will vote blue for the foreseeable future. Historically, generations would vote more conservative as they aged, but Gen Y seems to have bucked this trend, and Gen Z is voting at a massive blue to red ratio. I don't believe young folks will compromise on core social issues like abortion access, LGBT rights, police reform, etc... To me it seems the Republican Party needs to massively rebrand itself. Ron DeSantis, while a highly competent politician, seems to be setting up his presidential campaign on tackling social issues, just from a conservative POV. I really think the social issues are a sinking ship in the long run and that if the GOP wishes to win elections, they should drop the social issues and focus solely on economics. Even then, it would be an uphill battle given that Democratic policies are far more appealing to the typical younger individual, regardless of long-term effect. It seems even DeSantis is being pennywise but pound foolish.
That ignores the alt-right's literal Trump card too. It could be that Trump wins the nomination, in which case I really don't believe he could beat anybody. Or DeSantis wins the nomination, and Trump, with his narcissism, can't allow that and decides to sink DeSantis via a 3rd party run, leading to a blue win.
You said student loan forgiveness was pathetic and wouldn't work. We can't really tell because abortion was really the biggest issue on this, but I'm sure the loans played a decent part in 2022.
The United States in general seems to be shifting more left over time. The last time a non-incumbent Republican, such as DeSantis, won the national popular vote was in 1988, during the Cold War. A Republican has only won the popular vote one single time in the lifespan of all of Gen Z. While it's been proven Republicans can win with the Electoral College, such as Bush '00 and Trump '16, the Electoral College can only override the national popular vote for so long before the discrepancy becomes to big to bridge.
I do believe the Republican Party can change. Both parties have changed so much In my lifetime. Barack Obama ran against gay marriage in 2008, but he applauded it being approved by SCOTUS in 2015. John McCain and Mitt Romney, the two most prominent Republicans in 2008 and 2012 respectively, were considered RINOs by 2016. Trump was the Republican in 2016 up until the 2022 midterms, when now it seems all eyes are on Ron DeSantis; even Fox News has dumped Trump (not that they really cared about him as an individual ever anyway).
I guess I'm asking you to imagine yourself as a Republican strategist who could influence the GOP however he wants. What would you do to change the party in order to convince the current younger generations, who will dominate the electorate by 2032, or maybe even 2028, to vote for the Republican Party?
They will vote for "free stuff" until they have to start paying for it. It is really that simple. The stunted transition to adulthood that college and other lifestyle choices have created has built this weird delayed transition of political views. Gen Z is actually the most conservative generation at their age in the past 30 years. The conservatives actually have a pretty good demographics structure as what you call Gen Y continues to mentally mature and take up more of the tax collection responsbilities as Gen X moves up to the prime earning/saving years.
As many have said, this doesn't address the problem. I'm somewhat happy for my friends back home in debt, I guess? It's cool to see them get some relief. At the same time, I busted my ass to not take on debt, so having to now pay for their mistakes in tax dollars is frustrating.
For the record, most of the people I know in high levels of student loan debt are lazy/and or stupid. I know people who took out thousands to go abroad. I also know people who did a fifth year and then got a job at Walmart because they are lazy and not driven. The driven people I know bust their ass to get into better positions and pay back the loans they took out. Why should I feel sorry for people who were dumb enough to sign the line and put themselves in this position?
Fuck them. Seriously this is complete bullshit. Punish responsible people because people who are actually stupid and have been told they are smart their entire lives fucked up. Equity at its finest.
What are you going to do about it though? Continue to vote red/blue?
Live my life. Play the game as it's presented to me. Vote for whomever seems to be the lesser of two evils at the time.
It's like when Chrissy said "you ever feel like nothin' good was ever gonna happen to you?" And Paulie said "yeah. And nothing did. So what?"
As much as I want to be pissed about it, I am going to continue to work hard and try and make smart career moves. I still believe that the people that are best off are the ones that stay in their lane and keep grinding hard. If you needed the $10-$20,000 to get ahead, you probably weren't going to make it that far anyways.
I think we have to start openly stating things that we know are true. Stop censoring ourselves.
The 2020 election was stolen
Illegal immigrants have no place in our country
American culture needs to be preserved, not diluted
Paying politicians more money will not change the weather
Alternative energy is an inefficient scam used by politicians to control energy and therefore everything
Abortion is morally evil
Guns don't wake up and kill people, governments that ban guns do so with evil intent
Public school systems are a complete failure and nothing more than daycare programs but 10x the cost
The healthcare system proved that its just another corrupt, profit-seeking industry over the past decade
Vaccines have side effects
Masks dont work
Its okay to be white, politicians use racial differences as a vehicle to sow division in our communities where they take advantage
Don't forget about the frogs turning gay!!
All of your point are valid and true, although I would add "non-Europeans have no place in our country"
Every time I want to vote red because of policies like student loan forgiveness, it's dumb fuckers like you that make me rethink that decision.
Right, because Europe is doing so well right now.
It's trash like this that make one realize that although your friends and general entourage may be sufficiently cultured and experienced, there's always a fringe part of society that remains minuscule in thought and experience. It's sad to see folks so incapable of thought beyond their own resentful emotions and angry biases, ignorant based on their lack of exposure to the other 99% of the world they haven't seen and make uneducated assumptions about, and insecure as they continue to live in their small ever-deepening spiral of self-confirmation and intellectual denialism. You do realize that there are in fact people next door, across the ocean, and around the world that do things better than you and from whom you can learn from?
At least non-Europeans know how to work.
Fuck off back to Europe if you think that. Go be with your people.
This would include me lol
Really bad take.
The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly - Robert A. Wilson
This is a joke right? right?
Heres a key piece. This is another move from the government that will divide the populace even further. Shit is getting bad
Our parents should get a $10-20K handout to match the money they put into 529 plans (forced to tie it up for education-eligible expenses) like responsible people. Like others said, what they're doing is just incentivizing moral hazard, instead of addressing the actual costs, which there's a lot of great discussion on here with many people providing very good ideas.
Quant (ˈkwänt) n: An expert, someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.
You know one thing I never understood and quite frankly it seems like a great solution is why not make every dollar used to pay down federal student loans tax deductible. I mean it seems like a no brainer to me.
that is a really good point, I've thought about that too but never understood either. It should be tied in and streamlined with the Lifetime Learning Credit/American Opportunity Tax Credit.
Quant (ˈkwänt) n: An expert, someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.
There's already a deduction for tuition, and student loan interest. If the loan principal payment is deductible, you're essentially double counting the tax benefit.
I think this plan may be a positive in the long run.
Please keep passing legislation which is clearly unfair to hard workers and in particular the working class who did not go to college and people will begin to wake up! Please pass more bills like this and make it even more obvious on how dumb the Left has become.
I hope this is how it goes, but I already know so many midwits that are so happy to have a free 10k
Problem is people forget too quickly. Left massively overdid it on shutdowns, masks, vaxx mandates and it hurt them politically for only a brief moment (VA governor election was the test case). That's forgotten already. Now they outrage everyone with this student loan nonsense. We'll be lucky if it even lasts long enough to effect this November. Forget '24.
Eh....I think people still remember the mask BS. That may be longer lasting.
But to your point, I think the benefit of loan repayment will be forgotten much much quicker. Suppose your loan balance goes from $60K to $50K on your student loan. You're super excited at first. 3 months later your life is exactly the same as it was before the payment. You still have a fuckload to pay with no end in sight with your $45K per year job.
The only people who will be super appreciative a year or two from now are those who already beat down their balances and had may $10K or $20K on their loan. For them, it'll be life changing very soon.....but guess what, they were the ones who didn't have much of a problem paying in the first place!
Why would anyone shift to the Republicans because of "unfair" policies. Biden passed a bill where 75% of the benefits go to those making under 88k, squarely in the middle class. Meanwhile Trump passed a tax cut that allows the 400 richest families in America to pay a lower tax rate than you or me. One is much more unfair than the other.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/08/26/politics/biden-student-loans-middle-class-penn-wharton-budget-model/index.html
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/09/23/americas-richest-400-families-pay-a-lower-tax-rate-than-average-taxpayer.html
Making under $88K and with college degrees. Didn't go to electricians and people cooking your food. Yup, unfair and dumb for a party that's supposed to be for the working class rather than over-priviledged kids who chose degrees that couldn't pay off the debt after 4 years of keg stands.
Philosophically, agree it's a trash decision, but it seems like it's pretty in line with both parties in the past couple decades. Is it that different from TARP? At this point, I just expect my vote to be meaningless, my frugal lifestyle / dedication to investing and saving to be punished, and my tax dollars to be completely misused.
TARP was wrong too, but at least it made more sense as saving critical employers in our country. This is just a bailout of people who refused to make smart choices and/or sacrifice, and punishing those that worked hard and made sacrifices
TARP was based on a theory that the system just needs liquidity so it doesn't jam up. Put in the money today, daily operations continue, commercial paper gets processed, trades settle, creditworthy borrowers get loans, etc etc etc. Then once things stabilize you can take that money back out. Like jump starting a car.
And that's what happened. TARP was paid back with a decent return on top.
Was it just good luck, maybe. Not saying it was definitely the right theory. But very different from today's plan of gifting $300 billion to a select group of pretty undeserving citizens, at the expense of everyone else.
I like finance too, but don't drink the Kool-Aid so hard. TARP was a handout too, just like PPP, just like so many other government programs that funnel tax dollars to corporations who can't manage their books.
Looks like the price of Bitcoin is going up $10k
While it will buy votes for the left in the NT, I have growing conviction that this will destroy them in the long run. Why? Couple hard facts that many people are not aware of that will be ENORMOUSLY influential in the shifting electoral climate over next few years:
1. College enrollment has been in decline since 2011, largely a result of the massive sticker prices which have been long growing at MSD-HSD per year vs. LSD inflation. Holistically we know this to be true, even at my college (Top 20 University) I remember when I started my freshman year in mid-2010s the tuition alone was $41k. By the time I was a senior, it was $47k. Recently checked and it's $56-58k, WTF? This is not isolated to my university, the liberal policies of allowing students to take on as much debt as they need (even for useless liberal arts majors like Victorian Literature) have resulted in this massive inflation which will not slow down. If we assume 5% annual inflation (in line with historical avg), a T20 school will cost $100k per year in a mere 10-12yrs. If I have college aged children in say 25 years, it will literally cost $200k per year for each of them to attent a school of the caliber that I did. You tell me in what world that's tenable. This is not limited to private universities, what blue collar / middle class family can even afford to pay $50k a year for each kid to attent school? Less people educated at alt left colleges = less voters for Dems
2. College demographics are massively different now vs. what people appreciate. Colleges today are nearly 60% female / 40% male. What's more, in terms of actual graduation it's closer to 62-64% female / 36-38% male --> this means in just a few more years, there will be 2 females graduating for every male. Every college is aware of this but their hands are tied because who wants to support men on campus anymore? The left have nuked themselves by crapping all over masculinity, now no liberal college wants to even try to pick up the issue given the raging reaction this will provoke from the alt left. Why did this demographic shift happen? Function of a couple things incl: a) absurd sticker prices that grow every year, b) demonization of men & positive masculinity on college campuses, and c) trades are stuff that men are willing to do (electricians, plumbers, etc) but women are not. So in the long run, you have huge groups of men who have been left behind by elite liberals with no prospects AND a large group of blue-collar men who are being burdened by the federal gov by other people's problems. SK offers some parallels where >2/3 of men (and an even greater share of that in men 35< despite liberal attempts at brainwashing them) vote convservative
3. Hispanic pop is massively shifting towards the right. Why? They don't identify with the identify politics of the left (less than 5% of Latino people buy into the Latinx stuff as per survey data), URM has meant black & nothing else in the past 5yrs so Hispanics never really identified with that either, they despise socialism as a whole and believe in hard work / independence (which precludes the big gov of the left). Given Hispanics are the largest minority, politically they are the most important as well (and lower levels of college education as they're willing to go into the trades & other careers that do not necessitate college). This sort of tax relief to elites is a slap in their faces
4. Economic stagnation has been hitting the U.S. in a big way for past decade post-GFS, indirectly increasing the federal tax burden via these relief measures to elites will only lead to higher taxes on the middle class in the long run...which will be easy fodder for the Republicans LT. The stagnation at this point -- given how much our systems have ossified (political, education, etc) -- is pretty much inevitable (remote work has not done any favors here as more labor will now be hired overseas which reduces gains for Americans). So higher taxes are inevitable at this point anyway, the Dems have accelerated this path via measures like these & the climate bill
So cancelling the debt basically a) only pleases the current liberal elites which is a LT shrinking share of the pop in % terms, b) college-education people in general will only continue to decline, c) you're pissing off regular blue collar folks (less than 1/3 of the pop has a college degree), and d) you're pissing off Hispanics. So while this desperate move by Biden & the left might buy them votes NT, in the LT they will face judgment at the voting booths. So while I'm annoyed by this, in some ways I'm also relieved as the Democratic voting block will crumble. It's a thesis I've been weighing for a while but have stronger than ever conviction on it given structural forces above
Bruh no one will remember this shit long term. You are massively confused if you think otherwise.
Array
Especially in the context of broader political discourse around Roe v Wade and the GOP's endless culture wars - nobody has the attention span for this lol.
I don't recall ever saying this would be the equivalent of Franz Ferdinand being shot? All 4 factors above are structural and very unlikely to reverse. Something like debt forgiveness weaponized as a tool will be one of several transgressions over time that will hurt the Democrats. Especially if it's used like this on election years, you really think this is the last college debt relief that the Dems are going to implement?
You are massively confused if you don't realize these important shifts, they'll have enormous impacts at the voting booth over time. May not show up big in a single election but over time it will
Kind of laughable seeing how hard Biden is working to stave off the inevitable with these inane proposals. Please keep alienating all the people without college degrees and even those who do have them but dutifully paid off their loans
Libs have lost all touch with reality
This plan is stupid af, but I find it laughable how the young college republicans here think big spending is somehow isolated to team democrat. You guys already forget about trump bucks and PPP? .. actually I know the answer nvm
why can't both be bad policies?
Bro that's what I've been saying forever
One is heavy spending that helps the middle class
The other is heavy spending that helps the ultra rich
There is very clearly a lesser of two evils.
Exactly, if individuals so outraged against college loan forgiveness displayed the same contempt for businesses/wealthy individuals who got their loans forgave then they would at least look consistent. But they didn't care yet suddenly do now on college loans lol.
That has nothing to with our man here failing to understand the difference between TARP (a loan program designed to be paid back, which was paid back) and these other programs (PPP and student loan forgiveness, which were designed with the expectation that they would not be repaid).
Yes PPP is technically a loan but they always knew 99% of the money would be forgiven, so I'm putting it more in the student loan bucket. These are giveaways, and the bill obviously accrues to the future taxpayer.
TARP is totally different from that . . in design and in result.
One key similarity: In both cases, it's government trying to solve problems that government caused
Can we stop with the politics plz
There's a nifty function on the home page where you get to choose the thread you want to read.
whoa
Still have student loans and am not in favor of this.
Why hasn't the administration focused on offering a government stimulus of $10,000 for future students (perhaps as a family tax credit) as opposed to a forgiveness of $10,000 for current debt holders? Or maybe a federal subsidy for future students to attend state universities at lower costs?
I can make an argument for many alternatives however I think this underscores the point that fixing the underlying issues isn't the purpose of these payments regardless of your political affiliation.
Maybe that's a tad better? I agree - how about reforming the higher education model as to slow down or lower tuition rates? That would be the actual answer. Instead this is just a lazy money dump that increases inflation, passes the buck to the tax payer, enables higher education to continue on their crooked ways, and pisses a lot of people off.
This would only work if you limited the amount that schools could charge. You give students $10k then schools will just up prices by that much (see electric car response to their tax credits)
Because Republicans wouldn't vote for it. Democrats have been pushing for free community college since Obama's time, and this has been ignored.
This is so unfair for people like my fiance that lived very modesty after graduation so they could aggressively pay down loans.
Massive moral hazard, and just means schools will increase prices.
Also, some of the racist clowns in here need a hard ban.
I'm pretty left leaning too. Wouldn't mind something that fixes the affordability problem/out of control cost of school...but WTF if this? Here's $$$ for picking a shit degree because you went off feelz instead of a logical decision?
If I had to believe one conspiracy theory, the USA seems to be set up to reward perpetual indebtedness. Go in debt for school, a car, a home, furniture, medical bills, and even your phone. Getting close to paying your debts off? FOMO, ad bombardment, planned obsolescence, cash out refi!
Everything as a subscription service, you own nothing without the monthly payments flowing.
This forgiveness (alongside the corporate bailouts) creates insanely perverse incentives - a nation of hungry baby birds, individuals and companies alike, chirping loudly for their mom to drop the worm into their mouth.
If you are a high school senior considering college, why would you ever consider paying off loans? Just lobby until you can get someone else to pay for it. Same concept as not letting failing companies who made critical strategic errors die.
Thinking like that is what leads towards where we are as a country. Everyone is trying to get what they can out of the system, and out of their neighbors. If a policy doesn't benefit them then it shouldn't benefit anyone else.
You make good arguments, but you led your post with saying how unfair it was. Is your fiance really in dire need of 10k at this moment will 10k really make that big of a difference to her in 5 years? I just want to point out that we need to compromise and we need to think about others too.
He extended the payment pause right? Expect another extension and then another and another...
Array
Govt hands out corporate welfare like candy. About time they hand some out to citizens.
Array
I don't mind the idea of helping these people out in theory. I will graduate with some private loans (so they don't count to be forgiven), though nothing crazy, and my loans were totally unnecessary.
I did comment here months ago saying how if this happened, it would probably happen closer to midterms, which did end up being the case. Was it a political move? Sure, but I don't think that in and of itself makes it bad as it will still help many people. Though it really feels like beating someone up then giving them a single Advil for the pain.
College tuition has increased at a rate FAR surpassing CPI and most other inflationary metrics, so college today simply is harder to pay for than in past generations. Many colleges will continue to raise prices regardless. Congress recently passed an EV tax credit of $7,500. Ford almost immediately raised the prices of their EVs by ~$8,000. So such actions, like debt forgiveness, need to come with other legislation that prevents actors from just raising prices or else it defeats the whole purpose. Some public schools are under laws to not raise tuition but will raise other things like room and board to make up for it. It's a complex issue which no single piece of legislation will solve. I hope more action will be take, but the cost of college just seems like an issue many politicians want to campaign on but never actually solve.
That being said, I am happy for the people that this helps for the most part.
Do you mean Democrats looking to get re-elected come November?
Not sure why the MS. They are the most clear beneficiaries. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.
Dems gotta economically retard out like fish gotta swim
I come from down in the valley, where mister when you're young, they bring you up to do like your daddy done
2 trillion war in Afghanistan with fuck all to show for = ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1/2 trillion in forgiven PPP loans = ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
trillions in corporate welfare over the years = ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
student debt forgiveness = (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
If you compared student loans with pretty much any GOP policy since Reagan you will find they are much much more centered and less "unfair" on the middle class. For example, PPP loans, Trump tax cuts, Bush tax cuts, Reagan tax cuts, the military buildup, etc.
Providing further subsidies (whether upfront or forgiveness) will incentivize schools to continue raising tuition costs knowing they're subsidized. Why not reduce the availability of subsidies to reduce schools' admissions and put downwards pressure on absurd tuition costs
It's not the best solution, but we have to remember that Republicans control 50 seats in the Senate which pretty much dooms any meaningful educational bill getting passed. Ideally we would have something that cut down on the outrageous price spiral that is college tuition nowadays. Goldman Sachs ran the numbers on Biden's student loan forgiveness and showed that it would be a modest boost to the middle class and would not impact inflation.
Republicans will tell you "don't focus on the loans focus on keeping the costs of college down!" but what did we get out of eight years of Bush and four years of Trump? Massive deregulation of for-profit schools leading to hundreds of thousands getting scammed. Hell, Trump even ran a scam school called Trump University for a short time, and he even allowed for-profit lobbyists run the Department of Education they once lobbied in. Once again, I'd much rather have a band-aid solution than purposely making the problem worse.
The worst part is that many of the high profile opponents of this plan (McConnell, McCarthy, etc.) went to college before the Reagan Era when state governments paid most of the tuition, took advantage of those cheap prices, and are kicking down the ladder for future generations. They got state college for 330 dollars, and now we get a seminars at Trump University for 35,000 dollars.
https://fortune.com/2022/08/25/goldman-bank-of-america-student-loan-forgiveness-biden-inflation/
Edit: wrong reply
Ah, the rich commenting on the poor. "Let them eat cake", they said.
WASHINGTON - President Biden announced a plan on Wednesday to wipe out significant amounts of student loan debt for tens of millions of Americans, saying he would cancel $10,000 in debt for those earning less than $125,000 per year and $20,000 for those who had received Pell grants for low-income families.
The debt forgiveness, although less than what some Democrats had been pushing for, comes after months of deliberations in the White House over fairness and fears that it could exacerbate inflation before the midterm elections.
"All of this means people can start finally to climb out from under that mountain of debt," Mr. Biden said in remarks from the White House. "To finally think about buying a home or starting a family or starting a business. And by the way, when this happens, the whole economy is better off."
Mr. Biden also announced that a pandemic-era pause on student loan payments, which has been in effect since March 2020, would expire at the end of the year. The timing for the debt relief is uncertain; the Department of Education said it would set up an application process by the end of the year.
Across the United States, 45 million people owe $1.6 trillion for federal loans taken out for college - more than they owe on car loans, credit cards or any consumer debt other than mortgages.
Susan Rice, the White House domestic policy adviser, said the administration had not yet determined how much the student debt relief will cost because it will depend on the number of people who apply for it. By some estimates, however, it could cost $300 billion or more.
A small price to pay to keep the masses happy. We all know what happens when the lower class feels hopeless... but no, let them eat cake. The amount of hate for people getting one small break is crazy to me. Hate that I work in an industry with such selfish people who will shit on lower classes for getting a break. No complaints about tax breaks for corporations or the wealthy... but give people crippled with debt a break? Unpalatable for you all. Disgusting, especially from conservatives who tout the whole "jesus paid it all" loll. Also, for all those shitting on the arts majors, I hope that you yourselves don't consume any film/music/go to museums because that education is so worthless to you...
I'll happily take whatever the government gives me. I pay so much in taxes that I deserve to have all of my loans "forgiven." The problem is that the vast majority of Americans pay almost zero in taxes. There are tens of millions that "work" in the underground economy (sex trade, drugs, social media influencing, etc.) that pay nothing at all. It's not the middle, upper-middle and upper classes that have to pay more. It's the lower-middle and those that declare no income that have to start paying.
How do other countries manage to get good low cost education to happen?
Several reasons - key ones are greater govt. subsidies and lower focus on amenities/college as a lifestyle in most Euro countries. There isn't as big of a culture of going "away" to school and it being some life changing experience. The amount of $ spent on student facilities in the US that have very little to do with actual education is astounding. Higher % of European students tend to commute as well so no fancy dorms.
School rankings are much more important in the US as well and you have students taking on massive amounts of debt for just incrementally higher ranked schools. High schoolers and their families view the higher ranked schools as a golden ticket without actually doing a real cost-benefit analysis.
At the end of the day, this is a cultural problem, same way that the housing crash was precipitated (everyone should own a home, everyone should have the college experience you see in movies).
Don't know about other people's experience, but my high school tried to push everyone to a 4 year uni even if it clearly wasn't the best path for them. Even if you're an adult at 18, you're still not that mature, and I think a lot of people can feel like going to college and taking debt is the only path for them based on how HS counselors push them.
It probably won't come to pass, SCOTUS is going to have something to say.
https://www.courthousenews.com/student-loan-forgiveness-plan-has-a-scotus-problem/
Kinda dumb but I suppose helpful to a small demographic of retards. Not an issue worth getting pissed about given the police state with food shortages Biden is building, so yeah.
Would rather see medical debt forgiveness but pharma companies would probably assassinate anyone who advocated for it.
"Work ethic, work ethic" - Vince Vaughn
Biden's not building a police state. He's just having the feds get corrupt politicians, which is what they should be doing in the first place.
I think the military especially during peacetime is an amazing way for a young person to get tuition aid etc (or free college all together) + amazing job opportunities after…. A lot of people don't want to do that though and would rather take out loans…. Many who can't pay end up doing this though.
No, that's an even bigger drain for the average taxpayer, who has to support them for four years and then pay entirely for college after.
Haha fair enough - but tough to get people to do it otherwise, I think it will always be there.
American tax payers still pay for it that way, that tuition and housing stipend isn't free money.
More than 15% of federal spending goes towards defense. If you're mad about taxes you should complain that the military continues paying for multibillion dollars projects that never materialize.
I used to feel this way, and there is truth that there is bloat in the military budget. But this left/libertarian talking point is a really, really bad one. The U.S. military--through its firepower--fills a power vacuum in the world and prevents a major outbreak in war and allows for the free trade of goods globally. That's all worth way more annually than the cost of our military budget, as annoying as it is to spend so much money while the rest of the free world contributes so little.
Something like 45% of ALL taxation goes to pay for education.
Sorry for those who paid all their debt recently :)
So, MSN news had said that this will most likely win in the Supreme Court after oral arguments.
Ehhh, that's not really true. Some are saying that the liberal justices made a compelling case about the plaintiff's lack of standing. But the conservative majority did not take the bait and pursue this line of questioning.
More pressing is the sheer fact that there has never been a single use case of the underlying law that the administration is using to shoehorn this in. I think that will actually play a far greater speed bump in the survival of this executive overreach than anything else. The law is pretty clear about who and what this was intended for. Also a big headache for the administraion is the fact that they claimed victory over Covid publically before they released this plan, which takes away any claim to an emergency.
People haven't paid on loans in three years, the effect has already been felt. The delay in payments was really just another form of stimulus to consumers during covid. When borrowers start repayments, even if they're at a lower amount they will likely have to cut discretionary spending in other areas or increase their use of credit/debt for other purchases.
College costs will continue to go up exponentially.
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