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Fucks over the actual working class, contributes to inflation, incentivizes more shitty decision-making on the part of kids who take out loans for school, doesn't do anything to address the moral hazard of the universities continually raising prices without justification (bet they announce a near $10k-20k hike for next year for some mysterious reason), and to top it all off it's a ham-fisted solution to a problem that was created by the government getting into student lending in the first place. 

Fuck Biden. Fuck Dems. Fuck the academic failures who chose to waste 2-4 years of their life and now expect people who made good life decisions to bail them out. 

This is a blatant bribery attempt to curry favor ahead of the midterms. It's pathetic and it won't work. Only 13% of the population has student loans which they chose to take out (myself included). Everyone else who doesn't is going to look at this as a handout to the (on average) highest wage earners in the country. I would bet this is going to politically backfire wonderfully. 

I won't take this just like I didn't take the stupid stimulus checks during Covid. It's wrong. 

"The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly" - Robert A. Wilson | "If you don't have any enemies in life you have never stood up for anything" - Winston Churchill | "It's a testament to the sheer belligerence of the profession that people would rather argue about the 'risk-adjusted returns' of using inferior tooth cleaning methods." - kellycriterion
 

Kidding me? Democrats are the best at the game, they're not just now learning it. They practically wrote the rules.

"The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly" - Robert A. Wilson | "If you don't have any enemies in life you have never stood up for anything" - Winston Churchill | "It's a testament to the sheer belligerence of the profession that people would rather argue about the 'risk-adjusted returns' of using inferior tooth cleaning methods." - kellycriterion
 

The Republicans do the vast majority of the milking, but none of it goes to the average person.  We went 1.7 trillion in debt for tax cuts for the ultra wealthy, and 800 billion in dept for paycheck protection that was almost entirely not used to save jobs.  Bush did the same thing the last time a Republican was in charge.

Why is everyone on here deficit hawks for the middle class and the poor but mega spenders for the rich and the military?

 

Biggest problem IMHO is what it does to the incentive of future borrowers.  Being disciplined about your debt load, maybe choosing the cheaper school or the cheaper lifestyle in school . . all starts to feel like a sucker’s game when you now wonder if the money you borrow might be forgiven at some point later. 

There are many threads on WSO asking whether XYZ school is worth the extra $$$.  I’ve seen some great debates on those threads.   Those days are over now.  It’s always worth the extra money when you might not be paying it back.  

 

Laser44

Agree with these points in contributing to inflation, but didn't the money supply grow 30% during trump era ? 

I've called out the reckless economic decisions that resulted in lockdowns and bailouts during the onset of Covid plenty. That has literally nothing to do with this specific issue and tossing it in is a complete non-sequitur. Trump didn't use an executive order to secure those bailouts, Congress pushed them through during what many thought (I don't and never did) was an actual emergency. This student loan fiasco is purely a decree from the President to bribe a specific voting block that already leans towards voting Democrat less than 90 days ahead of midterms where the party is expecting to get flatlined like an amateur who steps into the ring with Deontay Wilder. Inflation is already a given and while you can argue semantics around how much of a needle-mover this specific amount is, you can't deny that this is making it worse.

To add insult to injury, this does nothing to actually relieve a meaningful debt burden - no one who is drowning over student debt is going to look at 10k being removed and think "wow this fixes everything". They literally picked an amount that's enough to write a massive check we can't cash while accomplishing nothing of note, it's just enough to get attention with "hey if you vote for us maybe we throw you another tiny bone". It does nothing to address the moral hazard of lending to largely leftist institutions who will just continue to the raise price of admission at a pace higher than nearly any other service/product in existence - I would be amazed if we don't see an announcement within the next year that college tuitions have gone up almost the exact amount as the loan forgiveness. If people are buying a product being promised results that it's not delivering (job opportunities, income above a certain threshold, etc.) then that's fraud, yet no one would ever suggest going after the institutions for false advertising to force them to either stop or improve what they're offering, or the politicians who put these predatory lending practices into place decades ago. It does nothing to address the flat out discrimination on a population level - this is tax money from everyone being directed towards a specific group that on average contains the highest income earners in the country, who elected to take out debt as a legal adult knowing they would be on the hook for paying it back. Why not include a 10k tax cut for everyone else? If we're just printing money to help people why not give everyone 20k? 50k? 100k? It never fucking stops. Republicans make a lot of stupid decisions when they're elected too but watching leftists try to pretend that cutting taxes and letting people keep the money they've earned is equivalent to printing money out of thin air (aka stealing it from future citizen productivity) and handing it to people they expect to vote for them. 

"The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly" - Robert A. Wilson | "If you don't have any enemies in life you have never stood up for anything" - Winston Churchill | "It's a testament to the sheer belligerence of the profession that people would rather argue about the 'risk-adjusted returns' of using inferior tooth cleaning methods." - kellycriterion
 

This is a blatant bribery attempt to curry favor ahead of the midterms. It's pathetic and it won't work.

I would bet this is going to politically backfire wonderfully. 

If I may, what do you think is the best path forward for the Republican Party to continue to win elections? You posted this before the 2022 midterms, and it seems the younger generations will vote blue for the foreseeable future. Historically, generations would vote more conservative as they aged, but Gen Y seems to have bucked this trend, and Gen Z is voting at a massive blue to red ratio. I don't believe young folks will compromise on core social issues like abortion access, LGBT rights, police reform, etc... To me it seems the Republican Party needs to massively rebrand itself. Ron DeSantis, while a highly competent politician, seems to be setting up his presidential campaign on tackling social issues, just from a conservative POV. I really think the social issues are a sinking ship in the long run and that if the GOP wishes to win elections, they should drop the social issues and focus solely on economics. Even then, it would be an uphill battle given that Democratic policies are far more appealing to the typical younger individual, regardless of long-term effect. It seems even DeSantis is being pennywise but pound foolish. 

That ignores the alt-right's literal Trump card too. It could be that Trump wins the nomination, in which case I really don't believe he could beat anybody. Or DeSantis wins the nomination, and Trump, with his narcissism, can't allow that and decides to sink DeSantis via a 3rd party run, leading to a blue win. 

You said student loan forgiveness was pathetic and wouldn't work. We can't really tell because abortion was really the biggest issue on this, but I'm sure the loans played a decent part in 2022. 

The United States in general seems to be shifting more left over time. The last time a non-incumbent Republican, such as DeSantis, won the national popular vote was in 1988, during the Cold War. A Republican has only won the popular vote one single time in the lifespan of all of Gen Z. While it's been proven Republicans can win with the Electoral College, such as Bush '00 and Trump '16, the Electoral College can only override the national popular vote for so long before the discrepancy becomes to big to bridge.

I do believe the Republican Party can change. Both parties have changed so much In my lifetime. Barack Obama ran against gay marriage in 2008, but he applauded it being approved by SCOTUS in 2015. John McCain and Mitt Romney, the two most prominent Republicans in 2008 and 2012 respectively, were considered RINOs by 2016. Trump was the Republican in 2016 up until the 2022 midterms, when now it seems all eyes are on Ron DeSantis; even Fox News has dumped Trump (not that they really cared about him as an individual ever anyway). 

I guess I'm asking you to imagine yourself as a Republican strategist who could influence the GOP however he wants. What would you do to change the party in order to convince the current younger generations, who will dominate the electorate by 2032, or maybe even 2028, to vote for the Republican Party?

 

They will vote for "free stuff" until they have to start paying for it.  It is really that simple.  The stunted transition to adulthood that college and other lifestyle choices have created has built this weird delayed transition of political views.  Gen Z is actually the most conservative generation at their age in the past 30 years.   The conservatives actually have a pretty good demographics structure as what you call Gen Y continues to mentally mature and take up more of the tax collection responsbilities as Gen X moves up to the prime earning/saving years.  

 

As many have said, this doesn’t address the problem. I’m somewhat happy for my friends back home in debt, I guess? It’s cool to see them get some relief. At the same time, I busted my ass to not take on debt, so having to now pay for their mistakes in tax dollars is frustrating.

For the record, most of the people I know in high levels of student loan debt are lazy/and or stupid. I know people who took out thousands to go abroad. I also know people who did a fifth year and then got a job at Walmart because they are lazy and not driven. The driven people I know bust their ass to get into better positions and pay back the loans they took out. Why should I feel sorry for people who were dumb enough to sign the line and put themselves in this position?

 

Live my life. Play the game as it's presented to me. Vote for whomever seems to be the lesser of two evils at the time.

It's like when Chrissy said "you ever feel like nothin' good was ever gonna happen to you?" And Paulie said "yeah. And nothing did. So what?"

 
Controversial

I think we have to start openly stating things that we know are true. Stop censoring ourselves. 

The 2020 election was stolen 

Illegal immigrants have no place in our country

American culture needs to be preserved, not diluted 

Paying politicians more money will not change the weather

Alternative energy is an inefficient scam used by politicians to control energy and therefore everything

Abortion is morally evil 

Guns don't wake up and kill people, governments that ban guns do so with evil intent

Public school systems are a complete failure and nothing more than daycare programs but 10x the cost

The healthcare system proved that its just another corrupt, profit-seeking industry over the past decade

Vaccines have side effects

Masks dont work 

Its okay to be white, politicians use racial differences as a vehicle to sow division in our communities where they take advantage

 

It’s trash like this that make one realize that although your friends and general entourage may be sufficiently cultured and experienced, there’s always a fringe part of society that remains minuscule in thought and experience. It’s sad to see folks so incapable of thought beyond their own resentful emotions and angry biases, ignorant based on their lack of exposure to the other 99% of the world they haven’t seen and make uneducated assumptions about, and insecure as they continue to live in their small ever-deepening spiral of self-confirmation and intellectual denialism. You do realize that there are in fact people next door, across the ocean, and around the world that do things better than you and from whom you can learn from?

 

This would include me lol

Really bad take.

"The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly" - Robert A. Wilson | "If you don't have any enemies in life you have never stood up for anything" - Winston Churchill | "It's a testament to the sheer belligerence of the profession that people would rather argue about the 'risk-adjusted returns' of using inferior tooth cleaning methods." - kellycriterion
 

Our parents should get a $10-20K handout to match the money they put into 529 plans (forced to tie it up for education-eligible expenses) like responsible people. Like others said, what they're doing is just incentivizing moral hazard, instead of addressing the actual costs, which there's a lot of great discussion on here with many people providing very good ideas.

Quant (ˈkwänt) n: An expert, someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.
 

that is a really good point, I've thought about that too but never understood either. It should be tied in and streamlined with the Lifetime Learning Credit/American Opportunity Tax Credit.

Quant (ˈkwänt) n: An expert, someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.
 

Problem is people forget too quickly.  Left massively overdid it on shutdowns, masks, vaxx mandates and it hurt them politically for only a brief moment (VA governor election was the test case).  That’s forgotten already. Now they outrage everyone with this student loan nonsense.  We’ll be lucky if it even lasts long enough to effect this November.  Forget ‘24.  

 

Eh....I think people still remember the mask BS. That may be longer lasting.

But to your point, I think the benefit of loan repayment will be forgotten much much quicker. Suppose your loan balance goes from $60K to $50K on your student loan. You're super excited at first. 3 months later your life is exactly the same as it was before the payment.  You still have a fuckload to pay with no end in sight with your $45K per year job.

The only people who will be super appreciative a year or two from now are those who already beat down their balances and had may $10K or $20K on their loan. For them, it'll be life changing very soon.....but guess what, they were the ones who didn't have much of a problem paying in the first place!

 

Why would anyone shift to the Republicans because of “unfair” policies.  Biden passed a bill where 75% of the benefits go to those making under 88k, squarely in the middle class.  Meanwhile Trump passed a tax cut that allows the 400 richest families in America to pay a lower tax rate than you or me. One is much more unfair than the other.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/08/26/politics/biden-student-loans-middle-…

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/09/23/americas-richest-400-families-pay-a…

 

Making under $88K and with college degrees. Didn't go to electricians and people cooking your food. Yup, unfair and dumb for a party that's supposed to be for the working class rather than over-priviledged kids who chose degrees that couldn't pay off the debt after 4 years of keg stands.

 

Philosophically, agree it's a trash decision, but it seems like it's pretty in line with both parties in the past couple decades.  Is it that different from TARP?  At this point, I just expect my vote to be meaningless, my frugal lifestyle / dedication to investing and saving to be punished, and my tax dollars to be completely misused.  

 

TARP was based on a theory that the system just needs liquidity so it doesn’t jam up.  Put in the money today, daily operations continue, commercial paper gets processed, trades settle, creditworthy borrowers get loans, etc etc etc.  Then once things stabilize you can take that money back out.  Like jump starting a car.  

And that’s what happened. TARP was paid back with a decent return on top.  

Was it just good luck, maybe.  Not saying it was definitely the right theory.  But very different from today’s plan of gifting $300 billion to a select group of pretty undeserving citizens, at the expense of everyone else.