Elite Boutiques - Any general consensus?
Ok so this topic may have been beaten to death as I have checked other forums on this, but is there any general consensus on which firms fit the definition of an elite boutique (example bank you would consider joining rather than a BB if given the opportunity). The reason I ask is I will be interning at firm which I would rather not name, but is borderline to being considered one. Well I know people hate these posts that deal with prestige and what not, but I think this is a legitimate inquiry into not a ranking, but what boutiques are considered elite.
What I consider the "Elite boutiques": Lazard, Blackstone, Greenhill, Evercore,Rothschild, Centerview, Gleacher, Moelis, Miller Buckfire, HLHZ
Any substractions? additions?
.
Elite Boutique in general refers to advisory firms that will do large deals and compete with the BB. Usually they are started by industry vets who leave the BBs. I would not include HLHZ in there, because they tend to focus on middle market. Perella Weinberg is another name I would add to your list. Peter J. Solomon might be another name to consider, because they tend to show up on a lot of large retail transactions, but also do a lot of middle market.
Miller Buckfire is a great firm, but they are very niche (restructuring). They have done some M&A work, but it is pretty minimal.
What is going to happen is all these "kids" are going to weigh in and argue who is better than who, etc. Ironically a lot of them do not have a job or are basing their arguements on limited knowledge.
I totally agree with goalieman with every point he makes. I'd also be hesitant to keep Rothschild on that list.
And FYI, Gleacher sold itself to Broadpoint just a few weeks ago. Not sure if Broadpoint plans to keep the name or what...
(http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/gleacher-joins-forces-with…)
Citystreet, if you need anonymous posters to tell you that your future bank is elite i.e. validate your insecurity about the job you took, you won't be a very successful analyst. Don't worry so much about the rankings/prestige, these kinds of posts are hated for a reason: they are fucking meaningless.
yeh point well taken MDR and goalieman the whole prestige thing is quite annoying makes sense.
But what can I say sometimes people need validation, I think its human nature especially when you want to go for a firm and not sure about the PE/VC exits ops so you ask around what the general perception is.
anyways thnx for the insight i think i got my question answered.
azwethinkweiz,
Yeah there was a DealBook article on his I believe they are going to call it Gleacher Broadpoint, not sure about the UK operations though which (as you probably know) is called Gleacher Shacklock.
Also Rothschild UK is very strong and I know the restructuring practice in the U.S. is very well known (I believe they just handled the Chicago Sun-Times bankruptcy also maybe Circuit City) so maybe the US Operation can be compared to that of Miller Buckfire's in terms of restructuring.
azwethinkweiz,
Yeah there was a DealBook article on this I believe they are going to call it Gleacher Broadpoint, not sure about the UK operations though which (as you probably know) is called Gleacher Shacklock.
Also Rothschild UK is very strong and I know the restructuring practice in the U.S. is very well known (I believe they just handled the Chicago Sun-Times bankruptcy also maybe Circuit City) so maybe the US Operation can be compared to that of Miller Buckfire's in terms of restructuring.
azwethinkweiz,
Yeah there was a DealBook article on this I believe they are going to call it Gleacher Broadpoint, not sure about the UK operations though which (as you probably know) is called Gleacher Shacklock.
Also Rothschild UK is very strong and I know the restructuring practice in the U.S. is very well known (I believe they just handled the Chicago Sun-Times bankruptcy also maybe Circuit City) so maybe the US Operation can be compared to that of Miller Buckfire's in terms of restructuring.
I think HLHZ is definitely climbing into elite status given the current economy. Their restructuring group is arguably the best on the street, and is absolutely killing it right now. It was definitely in the set of six or seven boutiques that I was looking at after getting laid off from my BB about a month ago - unfortunately I wanted to go into their banking group and they're hiring no one right now.
Peter J Solomon is usually on the big retail deals, though I don't think their really competing with BB/Laz/Greehill types. PJS is more in the boat with Sagent Advisors, HLHZ, etc.
Allen & Co too, right?
I know they are based in D.C. and are really good in the media space (they hold a big media conference that I know Murdoch always goes to). So if you want to work for a media-related PE or VC this would be the place to go I would think like a BB or elite boutique.
In terms of trying to get a job/internship with them they don't have a website if I am not mistaken so you pretty much have to mail an application to their office unless of course you go to a target of theirs.
I've heard that Allen & Co doesn't really hire interns unless you are related to a senior guy/have killer connects
Yeah drexelalum you are probably right they probably don't hire interns. I was mistaken they are based in NY and the conference's name is SunValley. Also according to Wikipedia they were involved in the Google IPO and list Basketball Play/Senator Bill Bradley and Ex-CIA Director George Tenet as former employees, not bad.
Allen & Co is very legit, far beyond having Bill Bradley and George Tenet as former employees. In addition to technology and media, Allen & Co are the investment bankers for Berkshire and Coca Cola. Here's a decent article on the firm:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2004/06/28/37437…
They are a very good bank, but I'm not sure if junior roles, and thus exit ops, would be as defined there. I'm presuming anyone who turns them down for an internship has a killer offer elsewhere though.
I know a guy who got an internship offer there - and I'd say my school doesn't have "killer" connections. Most likely just massive amounts of luck. Either way, he turned it down.
^^ HE probably had good connections, that's about 95% of the game...they seem to be a whole different entity from other boutiques. from what i've read, the only have about 100 employees, so i doubt they actively recruit ANY schools
GameTheory wrote something on Allen & Co a while back. Search for it.
Elitism on Wall Street died when Goldman became a retail bank.
Official: these are all decent MM/boutiques...
Moelis Lazard Evercore Greenhill Cowen & Co HLHZ Lincoln International Piper Jaffray Financo Centerview Partners Miller Buckfire Macquarie Jefferies Sandler O'Neill Keefe Bruyette & Woods Rothschild Fox-Pitt, Kelton Edgeview Partners Perella Weinberg Partners William Blair Harris Williams Allen Gleacher Peter J Solomon
I would add Robert W. Baird
Allen Centerview Partners Cowen & Co Edgeview Partners Evercore Financo Fox-Pitt, Kelton Gleacher Greenhill Harris Williams HLHZ Jefferies Keefe Bruyette & Woods Lazard Lincoln International Macquarie Miller Buckfire Moelis Perella Weinberg Partners Peter J Solomon Piper Jaffray Rothschild Sandler O'Neill William Blair
lol. nice
Is your list better because you alphabetized?
LondonE1, sometimes you be slippin cuz...
I know a lot of people have mentioned Gleacher (soon to be Broadpoint Gleacher), but I noticed that they haven't done a lot of deals recently. (Huntsman/Hexion and General Dynamics/Jet Aviation being their most recent involved negotiations).
They were last on the top 25 Americas M&A League tables (http://thomsonreuters.com/business_units/financial/league_tables/) in 2005. Yet I've heard all about Eric Gleacher as a legend on the Street, a lot of it having to do with his previous jobs at MS and LEH. What's the deal with this firm? And are they getting a lot of deal flow right now?
Gleacher is considered impressive from a junior perspective because of 1) PER CAPITA deal flow (they have ~25 people total I think, 2) their pay, and 3) their excellent PE/HF placement.
Analysts there have no associates looking over them (because there are none), and it is pretty normal for an analyst to make something and then have it sent directly to the MD and taken to a meeting without even more than a basic proofread. Analysts as a result become incredibly anal-retentive about detail and on top of their shit and do very well during recruiting. The fact that Gleacher even ever showed up in the Top 50 M&A profiles considering its headcount is a testament to how good they are.
Another useless thread. How does Macquarie make the list? What cracks me up is people associate boutique and middle market as one in the same. They are two completely different animals.
I said that these are decent MM/boutique firms...and Macquarie is decent enough to be on the list. i am confused, isn't this your dream company?
Yep, totally different animals. But then again why would a bunch of college juniors understand that when they can spend their time bitching at each other over which bank is more 'elite' just like they bitched at each other about which school is better when they were in high school. Some things never change.
Oh your wit astounds me. I did not realize that your prestigious school taught you how to be a comedian. I do not see how a large bank can be considered a boutique or a middle market firm. They just hired a bunch of ex Lehman and Bear guys in the U.S. If anything I would classify them as a Tier 2 or 3 bank (similar to an HSBC, BNP, etc.) You really must get your rocks off having heated debates about places that you do not work.
The list is too long. Most of them are decent, but the elite ones are: Lazard, Greenhill, Evercore, Perella Weinberg, Moelis and Blackstone
George Tenet and Bill Bradley are current employees at Allen & Co. They do not hire interns (all interns are referred through MDs at the firm)
How are MBA placement and exit opportunities to PE at the "decent" boutiques?
What's a "decent" boutique?
a notch below the mentioned list?
out of your "decent" (for lack of a better word) boutiques, harris williams and william blair send tons of analysts to very good PE shops
Does anyone have thoughts on Qatalyst?
You should probably throw Sagent Advisors on there as well.
Sagent is not elite. Good but not elite. Lazard, Greenhill, Evercore, Perella Weinberg, Moelis LA and Blackstone are "elite".
Interesting. So Moelis NY is not as highly regarded? Obviously the LA office would be front and center, but is there a significant disparity between offices?
I'd be curious to hear other opinions.
Were any elite boutiques on this recent Pepsi deal? Anyone know?
perella and centerview
What about Stephens Inc. IBD?
stephens is a piece of shit rofl u work there
This thread is so Piper Jaffray-ish.
You have a Mortal Combat symbol as an icon... I'll take Piper Jaffray-ish as a complement then.
Thanks,
-Andrew
You spelled Mortal Kombat wrong. GET OVER HERE!
the only elite boutiques are blackstone, moelis, lazard, evercore, greenhill.
Wow. You're so clever. Can you please come up with another line? Twice in one week? Come on, now!
Come up with another line??? haha, no he just knows how to regurgitate LSO
brown brothers is a HORRIBLE BANK.
someone added a comment about Qatalyst. Frank Quattrone is the best in the business.
Are all these boutiques/MM's stepping stones to a top 5 MBA program provided you perform well on the job?
Elite Boutiques - Any sort of credible list? (Originally Posted: 10/30/2013)
I had a conversation with a colleague today about whether Miller Buckfire was considered an elite boutique, and how valuable its exit opps would be in comparison to BBs and EBs..
Was wondering if there was any sort of comprehensive/credible list of elite boutiques?
Thanks for any input.
evr/laz/centerview/Greenhill/Moelis/pwp are the usual suspects
Right, I am trying to understand the basis for qualification to be EB. If there was any sort of established ranking.
EB status can vary year to year. E.g. Gleacher used to be up there years ago. Now look what happened. Miller Buckfire was more of an EB back in 08-10 when Rx business was booming. Now that Rx has slowed down a lot and they've been acquired by Stifel, that prestige has taken a real hit.
I understand the general consensus, but who determines these statuses? Is there something more official like a bloomberg list or league table or something?
Didn't all the rainmakers get poached from Miller Buckfire? Word around town it's a ghost town now.
Nouveau Richie posted this in another thread:
Bulge Bracket: GS, MS, JPM, Barclays, CS, DB, Citi, BAML, UBS Tier-2 Balance Sheet Shops: Wells Fargo, HSBC, Nomura, SocGen, BNP, etc. Global Independent Advisory Firms: Evercore, Lazard (Frères), Blackstone, Rothschild, Greenhill, Moelis, etc. Elite Boutiques: Centerview, Allen, Qatalyst, PWP, Guggenheim (yes, really), etc. Full-Services Middle Market: Jefferies, HLHZ, Stifel, RBC, William Blair, Baird, Piper Jaffray, etc. Middle Market Independent Advisory: Harris Williams, Sagent, Lazard (Middle Market), etc. Fake Banks/Valuation Shops: Duff & Phelps, KPMG Advisory, PwC M&A, etc. Specialists: Financial Technology Partners, Greentech Capital Partners, etc. True Boutiques: (Places with a few offices or less, 100 employees or less, etc.)
As someone at an "elite boutique" working in restructuring, I can tell you Miller Buckfire is a great shop that still wins some great mandates. Would imagine analysts have solid exit opps.
You can't be an EB if you've been acquired by Stifel.
KBW? And yeah FIG is different whatever.
Haha, thank you to everyone for their input, I guess it's pretty subjective?
Guess I'll weigh in quickly, having worked for an elite boutique in the past. It's subjective to a point. As in, it's subjective in that from year to year, the general amorphous industry decides who is considered an elite boutique. There's no official criteria, vote or list anywhere, you just know who is and who isn't.
Therefore, it's not subjective (in my opinion) in that a firm might be considered one or might not. If you're having the debate, it probably is not one. Miller Buckfire, for instance, is not an elite boutique. It is a boutique firm that is very good at restructuring. In general, exit ops will not be on par with other top tier restructuring firms. Like I said though, they are very well respected in the restructuring world.
The list referenced by goblan is more or less accurate. The firms listed in the "global independent advisory firms", especially Lazard and Blackstone, were traditionally counted as an elite boutique, and still kind of are mostly out of history and tradition, but are so large these days they kind of fall in a weird spot.
Elite Boutiques around the world (Originally Posted: 02/09/2014)
It's the time of the year when multiple threads of "Bank X vs. Bank Y. for SA" are emerging on this forum and by reading through these topics as well as older comparable posts, I realized that lots of folks on here suggest joining smaller firms (commonly named elite boutiques) such as GHL, EVR, PWP, Moelis, BX rather than BBs. I guess it's basically due to a combination of higher pay, prestige, better culture, and nice exits as well as a few other reasons, yet, that's not the topic of this post.
So, how's the perception / reputation of these banks in EMEA (London, Frankfurt, Paris) or in the APAC region (Hong Kong, Singapore, Tokyo, Sydney)? When browsing through their recent transactions pages, it quickly catches the eye that the majority of transactions were completed in the US and that deals in Europe usually involve BBs (+ Lazard and Rothschild) rather than the likes of Greenhill, Evercore, or Perella.
So my question is basically how are these boutique banks regarded outside of the US and how are the exits coming from Greenhill London or Evercore Hong Kong? Would you still suggest joining one of these banks in Europe or Asia or should you stick to bulge brackets and LAZ / RS?
No opinions concerning Blackstone/Evercore/Greenhill/Moelis/Perella 's reputation outside the US?
I've generally heard that EB's don't do as in Asia at least, perhaps because IB is more capital markets driven.
I see, that makes sense. I think they are already more established in Europe than in Asia but they still aren't mandated as often on large deals (+1bn) as they are in the US, so I was wondering how that might affect exits in the region..
Btw, how easy is it for a European without US work permit to change offices to the US? I know that it's possible at the Associate level, but does anyone know if it can be done after a year?
Comparing the newer elite boutiques with the more established ones (Originally Posted: 07/06/2015)
It's already been discussed - at length - that the elite boutiques have grabbed more of the M&A share from the traditional BB players. But I am curious to hear what you guys think of the relatively new elite boutiques (i.e. Raine, Liontree, PJT, etc.)
Liontree is at 14 in the global M&A rankings for the first half of 2015. PJT (Blackstone M&A) is sure to be very active based on what Paul Taubman has been able to do as an independent this year. At what point do we start considering young banks of this caliber on par with banks like Evercore, Greenhill, and Centerview?
Furthermore, what does this mean for exit ops at these places? How long will it take the younger elite boutiques to have exit ops comparable with those of older elite boutiques if they keep up this pace?
? BX M&A, BX R&R are on another planet if youre talking exits. none of those shops compare for placements.
I think it is worth distinguishing between those EBs that have founders that are making a genuine attempt to create an enduring company, vs. those that are shops for the founders to operate from until they retire.
Elite Boutiques - What do many consider to be in this category? (Originally Posted: 11/16/2009)
I was wondering what GPA a firm like Rothschild was looking for. I've heard that some "elite" boutiques like Lazard and Evercore often have really high GPA requirements, and was wondering if there weas a common factor (I've heard 3.65 +)
Also what do many consider to bein this category, Lazard, Evercore, Greenhill, Rothschild, ...? and is the GPA usually the same for all boutiques of this nature?
3.8-3.9 is what ive heard for top boutiques
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