IB vs AM
Can anybody share some insight on which industry is more competitive to break into at the entry level? Also how much if any, are the hours and pay difference thoughout the ranks?
Can anybody share some insight on which industry is more competitive to break into at the entry level? Also how much if any, are the hours and pay difference thoughout the ranks?
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Career Resources
Sure let me just pull out a fucking 60 page report on it./
I'll assume you mean straight out of college-
AM/HF- Mostly math/physics/engineering kids for quant type roles. No business/finance kids front office.
IB- Any major
Base salaries will be similar for each (60-70k) with a variable bonus depending on how profitable the firm is/ deal flow on the sell side.
Hours in AM range from 45-60/wk whereas IB 50/60+
I would say the interview process for AM is MUCH more difficult as I was asked ACTUAL technical questions (probabilities etc, not fucking DCF). My IB interviews were mostly fit.
WSJ, diff. between AM/IB salary, diff. between AB/IB interview (Originally Posted: 12/29/2012)
So i think im trying to move into Asset Management, and i just bought a WSJ subscription and im trying to read everyday on investment banking and asset management, but i cant seem to find a particular "section" on WSJ that i should read everyday. like should i go to the business section, market watch, etc? anyone got any good advice on this stuff?
Also, I'm confused on the exact difference between Asset management and investment banking. i know that IB is pretty much raising capital for companies through mergers and acquisitins, and asset management is managing one's equity or stocks/ownership of the company and advising them how to use their $. anything else though? and the cultural differences and salary? AM is more relaxed and requires less hours and makes a little or a lot less money on average? while IB can be big time hours like 120 at most during most busy times, and its just a whole different culture, right?
also, is the ib interview a lot more technical than the AM interview for an intern and/or just in general? im planning to apply for an AM internship this summer and have taken just one business class so far (just moved in) so im short on the technical stuff as of now.
Thanks
60+ hours/week for IB? What kind of firm did you interview at? Every single person I know of in IBD works >80 hours/week.
50/60 hours ib LOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
your clueless stop spreading false information.
First thing is first, you gotta learn how to read the journal as the writers intend for it to be read. That way you'll get the most out of it. I remember having a convo with a lady in HR at Goldman, she said that a lot of kids don't know how to read the WSJ properly. Learn it, like it, love it: http://info.wsj.com/college/guidedtour/index.html
After you learn of to read it things will become much more clearer. For IB NYT Dealbook is a fairly good resource.
In terms of interviewing: IB looks like it would be harder, but in my experience analyst interviews in AM are tougher: Its much easier to run through DCF and statement analysis, than it is to put together an investment pitch, allocation and strategy. I think its also indicative of the type of work you do in both fields. IB is more relationship based, I mead you do some modeling but the higher up you go, the less you do. AM is more hands on, cause a PM is responsible for everything that happens in their fund.
In AM it also depends entirely on the type of position you're applying for and strategy of the fund. E.g. interviews at PIMCO are going to be very different to say, Pictet AM.
Do you mind to share some information about the interviews at Pictet AM? What makes them different to other AM?
Don't want to be a dick bro, but I really think you should go out and read about them. http://www.pictet.com/en/home/tools/disclaimers_pam.DoAck.html has A LOT of information.
WSJ is not going to give you a competitive advantage. It's just a newspaper. Deal Breaker, Deal Book, Financial Times, et al. are also good. But 95% of news is entertainment not education.
Maybe look up some 'day in the life' segments of the different careers or read some of the books out there about people's experiences in the business (e.g. monkey business) so you have some idea. They are two very different businesses.
PM me
http://www.pehub.com/
http://dealbreaker.com/
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/
http://www.ft.com/home/uk
http://www.economist.com/
Prangs, I don't have enough bananas or whatever to pm u since I just got on here. Maybe email? Also what are the cultural differences. Like I can see IB working late hours and I see the Goldman Sachs douchebag personality, which I know is not true at all. But what is it like for AM? Some friends say u don't need to be as smart to do AM.. is that true?
SALARY, DIFF BTWN IB AND ASSET MANAGEMENT (Originally Posted: 12/12/2010)
I AM FACED WITH OPPORTUNITIES FOR AN INTERNSHIP AND HOPEFULLY A JOB IN 2 AREAS OF BANKING. INVESTMENT BANKING AND Asset Management - CAN YOU PLEASE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE ON THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO.
STUFF LIKE WORK HOURS, WORK ATMOSPHERE, SALARY, KIND OF WORK THAT YOU WOULD BE DOING.
ANY ADVICE FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED EITHER OR BOTH WOULD BE HELPFUL.
THANKS.
apples:oranges
apples:tangerine
why caps man?
he must be one of dem type A dudes
THIS IS THE WAY I TALK. HAVEN'T YOU SEEN MY MOVIES?
Caps lock key on his kb must be stuck.
he is using the shift key caps lock is for non targets
sorry guys keyboard keys were on caps, but can we focus on the question being asked and try to give a good answer!! lol
Dude, either job requires a lot of research. If you went through the first page of threads on either you would have found the answer. If I hadn't seen multiple different threads answer these questions in the last week I would have answered it for you. Sorry.
Two MM firms. My buddies decided to work there, and yes, they work around 60 /65 a week avg (one in pub fin IB, other in corporate). One is a firm that gets relentlessly bashed on this forum, you figure it out.
Compensation and career development: AM VS IBD (Originally Posted: 12/31/2012)
As an incoming IBD analyst at a BB, I am recently considering where I would be in three years, as, let's fact it, the hours at IBD is just not sustainable. From I have heard, Asset Management is a popular, natural exit option. And yet, it seems that asset management's compensation is on average lower than IBD at the same position level; so save the work-life balance issue, moving up in IBD seems more attractive than transitioning to AM. Anyone could shed some light on the most up-to-date info on AM compensation? Any inputs on the career path between moving up to associate within IBD and transitioning to AM?
On a hourly basis, in-between AM and IBD your probably paid the same. At some top tier AM firms, pay is very comparable.
As someone that recently transitioned from AM to IBD, I can tell you that in MOST cases, IBD will pay more than AM initially and as you move up the ladder. Equity analyst comp is nice, but usually tops out around $500K all-in until you make PM, which may never happen. PM comp can exceed $1MM annually, but alpha is tough to deliver and firms are quick to make a change if a PM is becoming too expensive after riding a nice bull market. Also AM comp is highly correlated to AUM, which is driven primarily by marketing and often is out of your control.
To be clear, I am referring to vanilla asset management/mutual funds in this post, NOT hedge funds.
IM/AM: Don't forget to differentiate between the buy-side and sell-side. At the moment, it will be easier (but still very difficult) to secure a position in IM versus IBD. Asset Management is the "safest" track out of IBD, S&T, and AM in this climate. The pay on the sell-side is maybe 70-75k + bonus, but don't expect a fat bonus like you'd get in IBD. And also, your raises are more flat. On the buy-side, entry-level total packages can reach up to $110k+. It starts raining when you become a junior PM+. As far as profiles go, I don't know what wadtk is talking about. Sure there is a quantitative aspect to AM and thus many quant groups, but there is also the "business" / sales side as well. For example, working in an equity fund where your job is to simply pitch stocks -- no fucking quant can do that.
IBD: If we are talking about BB's, then the pay is nice. Expect to work 80-100 hours. If you are a top performer at a BB, you can make as high as 150k. Very competitive recruitment cycle coming up for IB this year, so it's going to be tough.
Hours- IB vs AM (Originally Posted: 08/09/2014)
I'm interested in the hours required for a 1st year IB analyst and a BB or MM bank. This is in comparison with a first year analyst at a large IM/ mutual fund firm (fidelity, vanguard, templeton, Columbia, BlackRock). Also any more insight in this entry level MF careers?
Bueller...
Hours in IB are significantly worse (80 to 110) compared with maybe 50-70 at a big AM. Pay will be better at IB in junior roles though, just like exit opps are much broader for IB analysts than for AM analysts.
Btw, a quick search would have given you the same answer. That search bar in the top right corner is there for a reason.
With all the hiring freezes at the major BBs, anyone should be glad that they got an offer for IBD.
AM vs. I-Banking Pay (Originally Posted: 04/10/2007)
How does the pay in asset management compare to I-banking both in internships and full time? Do the bonuses work out similarly or is it based on different sets of guidelines?
Im getting about 1120-1200 a week for my AM internship at BB. Curious about FT full compensation though. Anyone?
as far as analyst positions go at BBs, the base is the basically the same whether it be banking, s&t, IT, AM, etc...but the bonus structure is just not the same. S&T and Banking analysts get much larger bonuses.
By how much? My SA position is a prorated 60k salary. I would assume the FT would at least match that salary... plus what? a 10-15k bonus? Am I being too wishful?
Is trading more respected than solid AM experience? I know a few people moving onto hedge funds post-AM stints.
they would match base. by next year salary for 1st yr analyst salary will be around 65 most likely. I don't think you are being to wishful with bonus. obv depends on performance of the group, and the bank. could be more than 15, IMO. As far as exit opps...dont know much about AM, but as far as trading goes it really depends. If you are at a BB just trading flow, not taking much risk, etc, exit opps are not the greatest. If you are doing prop, or trading more complex products, there are better exit opps.
Thanks tekno. Are you in IB? Anyone else with $ figures/exit ops compared to trading? Not to be trite, just curious.
hey im a newbie wats SA and FT btw??
SA = Summer Analyst
FT = Full Time
i gotcha thx alex
what are the hours and bonus like in am?
Hours are chill. like everything, it depends on your immediate group (mid cap equities, real estate acquisitions, etc), but hours are usually great... 830-630. Give or take an hour for some groups.
Rumors I grabbed for first year bonus was about 10-20 at my BB. Roughly 20% increase in bonus the next two years with about 5k added onto to base each year too.
AM vs IB for PE (Originally Posted: 07/24/2014)
Hi,
I'm a rising Junior and I have the opportunity to intern at a decent AM company my junior year (think AllianceBernstein). Would it be a good move to accept the buy side internship if my end goal is to work in PE? And if so, what role would best position me for a job in PE? Or should I take the traditional route and try to snag an SA at an IB?
If PE is the goal then get modeling/transaction experience.
If the AM is during the year I don't think there is a problem with you doing that and then going for SA recruiting.
Both internships are during the summer of my junior year. Which one do you guys think would best position me for P/E and which one would best position me for an MBA from an IVY league?
IB. There's a reason it's the traditional route. Go to some PE funds you might want to work at and check the associate bios. I doubt you'll see any AM alum, or if you do very few. Don't get too caught up in the "buy-side" label--it's more about the similarity of the work
The Ivy qualification is strange since it eliminates many of the very best business schools but regardless the business school route is far more ambiguous. At most schools finance careers are still quite over-represented. Still, large AM is still likely impressive to AdComs, but I cannot say for sure. I know much less about that area.
AM vs. IB Business Development (Originally Posted: 08/30/2011)
I'm a junior at a top 15 school and I was just offered two internships for the Fall semester. One is with a relatively small Asset Management team that is part of a much larger international bank (not BB or anything). The other is working with a middle-market IB with offices across the country. The problem is, the work I'd be doing here is mostly business development (researching "buyable" small private companies and submitting them to my supervisor to send to the bankers). The NYC office doesn't have any bankers there, but the team is one of the more reputable in Boston. The AM work would be actual, real work in asset management and I would get the chance to attend meetings with hedge fund managers and stuff like that.
So do I go with the better experience or the "Investment Banking Intern" line on my resume? I eventually want to leverage this job into an SA position in 2012. I think the obvious answer is work for the Asset Management Company where I'll enjoy the work more and actually learn a thing or two, but I just wanted to get a second opinion.
AM
Ibanking vs. AM (Originally Posted: 04/26/2010)
Hello people,
I know this not exactly the right forum. I've tried posting this on the AM forum, but sadly there doesn't seem to much activity on AM forum. So hear me out. I need some serious advice on pursuing a career in AM. First, let me give a brief intro. I'm looking to make a switch into AM, after working for at a start up for a little less than a year after finishing my undergrad in 2008 (perhaps breaking in rather than switching is more appropriate). To make a long story short, basically I was initially interested in entrepreneurship, but at some point realized that it wasn't what i wanted in a career in the long run. I had always had an interest in finance, mainly developed through relevant coursework during my undergrad study, so decided to explore that front. I completed my CFA Level I because I wanted to get a proper introduction to finance. I am looking to take the CFA level II in June. Although time consuming and at times cumbersome, I'd say I am enjoying learning the material, and am glad I chose to pursue the CFA track. I've researched Investment banking quite extensively solely because it seems to be more of a hot topic in comparison to AM. But it doesn't really appeal to me. My interests seem to be more aligned with CFA centric areas, mainly AM and research based roles. I will be going back to school for a Master Finance program (BC, Cass, Bocconi, Rotterdam are among my top choices), which i hope to use to break into the industry.
Now I don't know much about AM industry as I am just beginning to familiarize myself, so what are possible entry level routes for AM? Does my plan to go back to school seem feasible? I would appreciate any kind of input or general thoughts, so please feel free to comment.
Thanks people!!
Congrats on passing level I. I am studying for Level I right now actually.
Banking is a very client oriented business where you are at their mercy, therefore leading to long hours/no life, but you become very proficient at excel, PP, building models and basically learn almost everything about financial statement analysis. It is usually the starting point for someone in finance where you decide on the career path, whether HF's, PE, B-school, AM or even realizing finance is not at all your thing.
Since your interests lie in AM and research I would suggest you do what makes you happy. If you go into banking half hearted, most likely you will not get through even 1 year without breaking down. Also, the CFA is most relevant to AM, Research and HF's. A master degree will put you ahead of the pack, but I suggest getting a prestigious experience on your resume and doing an MBA from a top 10, which is a bigger plus than just a masters. Think about it this way...whats the point of having the CFA and a master in Finance...doesn't really make any sense, but a CFA and MBA would be a deadly combination. I am going to quote from investopedia, "CFA is a mile deep and a foot wide, while an MBA is a mile wide and a foot deep"
I would get an MBA like the above poster suggests. From a practical perspective, you will be exposed to more recruiters for AM firms earning an MBA. Also, your CFA will make you stand out as most MBAs don't have that distinction.
Also, I would look at the big AM firms, like Fidelity, T Rowe, Wellington Management, out there that recruit from undergraduate colleges. They might find you an interesting candidate and all have research associate/rotational programs. The programs are highly selective. Good luck!
I would get an MBA like non-target suggests. From a practical perspective, you will be exposed to more recruiters for AM firms earning an MBA. Also, your CFA will make you stand out as most MBAs don't have that distinction.
Also, I would look at the big AM firms, like Fidelity, T Rowe, Wellington Management, out there that recruit from undergraduate colleges. They might find you an interesting candidate and all have research associate/rotational programs. The programs are highly selective. Good luck!
i would get an MSc Finance at a top euro school, work for several years, and then decide whether or not getting an MBA is necessary. for most asset management positions, an MBA isn't required for promotion.
Hey guys, Thanks for the comments. An MBA at this point wouldn't work for me because of lack of work ex. Getting a good gig is difficult for someone like me with little resource, so I hope to use a MSc Finance degree to break into the industry. I was hoping to learn more about possible entry level routes to AM or research based roles and ways to make myself a better candidate. Please share your inputs or general thoughts on this matter.
Thanks people!!!
Three things get you a job; experience, good education or connections. Sometimes even with the exp. & edu. its almost impossible to break in without connections. See you have to understand people need to trust you and if they don't know you, no ones going to hire you. People need to know they could trust you with the work because you are dealing with a lot of money and work under pressure. You just need to be persistent without being annoying and work on your CFA in the meanwhile and apply to colleges for advanced degrees while looking for a job.
Trust me on this because I am trying to break into HF/AM as well.
IBD > am
No one has really asked.. AM is pretty broad. What do you want to get into? PB, PWM, IM/HFs?
I am interested in Portfolio management or equity research type roles. But at this point, I don't think I'm qualified or knowledgeable enough to narrow down too much. I am just hoping to learn more about different entry level routes into AM or research based roles as this will give me a better idea of whats out there, what to expect, do further research and prepare myself as best as possible. So people appreciate the inputs, so please continue to share your constructive thoughts.
Thanks
AM or MM IB Internship if the Goal is PE? (Originally Posted: 07/17/2015)
Hi fellow monkeys,
I am a rising sophomore BBA at a target school. Given the opportunity (of which there is a high likelihood), should I intern at Fortress Investment Group in its PE/alternative Asset Management division, or should I go for a MM IB internship if my final goal is to be in PE after two years of IB post-college?
Thanks everyone!
Why reveal the asset manager but not the MM IB? Help us help you. Regardless, find out what exit opps happened for past junior folks that worked in the Fortress group. If they consistently exit well, then it might not matter what you decide to do. IB is a no-brainer. Everyone knows that's the primary role before PE. My guess is that IB is the better decision here.
Thanks. How would IB interviewers view a PE internship? Would it be more prestigious and help me stand out more?
Road to PE: AM or IB? (Originally Posted: 09/25/2015)
Hi all, looking for advice on if it's better to start in Asset Management or IBD right after graduation if the goal is to get into a good PE firm.
I have offers at 2nd-tier asset management (LA, debt products) and 2nd tier bid (NY, lev fin). 2nd tier meaning ranked #10-#25, depending on how companies are ranked
Is it better to start on buy-side to get to buy-side PE, or go from IBD to PE?
IBD.
Yeah unfortunately those skillsets are somewhat different. While I think the AM job is going to be more exciting for you right out of undergrad (better lifestyle, more impactful work, steeper learning curve etc), i don't think it sets you up particularly well to recruit for PE. There's a pretty clear path from banking into PE after a couple years given those guys really want to see live deal experience.
Accidentally gave this a banana, was mean to MS. Questions this obvious warrant offers being withdrawn
AM vs. IB - which would you take? (FT) (Originally Posted: 06/29/2013)
You want to become a successful and happy financier. You also want to get into MBA at Harvard Business School.
Now, you have two offers: - Investment Banking Analyst (in your dream area) position at a bulge bracket investment bank.
What would you choose?
Sacrifice your first two years of life balance for the Wall Street's top bonus and best exit options? OR Work only 60 hours a week at an AM but with lesser exit options and lower bonus?
If your goal is to become a good, independent investor, and your AM firms are on the level of something like Third Ave / Ruane, Cunniff & Goldfarb, it is an easy choice.
Given that your not sure, IB > AM. Asset management is a good entry to....asset management and has no practical application other then other forms of asset management i.e. PWM, fundraising, etc. As an IB analyst you can always get into investment management at a fundamentally driven manager and can sell your expirence effectively for consulting, corporates and most other ocupacions.
If it was a career choice rather then a 2 year choice then it is slightly more complex given relative market positions going forward
what if your goal is to go to Harvard or Stanford MBA?
anyone?
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