In Canada, a lot of people will say that landing a role at the B5 (RBC/TD/BMO/CIBC/Scotia) is as difficult as landing a role at a BB in the US. Their logic is that when each bank only has about 15 summer analyst spots across Toronto+other cities, competition is super fierce.
Is this the general consensus? I'm a university student, and so I'm wondering if this is just something Canadians say.
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No. The ppl recruiting for Big 5 are left overs who failed US recruiting
How many Canadians do you think successfully go to the States?
10-20 depending on year.
Ok that makes sense. So if we consider going to the States for Canadians equivalent difficulty to GS/MS/JPM for US Students, I'm assuming the ratio would match?
Cdn going to big 5 will be harder than American going to BB. But cdn going to US will be much harder than cdn going to big 5. Maybe this is a better way to put it.
This is worded exceptionally harshly.
It’d be like saying every aspiring lawyer in the US who didn’t get a SC internship “failed out” when there are just so few positions available (and a ton of incredible talent who will do other, equally good things).
Ye i realized that too lol I reworded it in the above thread. Moreso debunking that US recruiting being easier for Cdns. Landing GS/EBs in the US is much harder than B5 in Toronto but I def couldve worded it in a better way.
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Bay Street gate keeps far more than Wall Street. Part of the reason is that wall street sees everyone in Canada as a non-target so the playing field is leveled.
5 in Toronto, 2 Calgary, 1 Montreal, 1 Vancouver?
I should’ve specified I was only talking about Toronto
40 global seats across Bay Street per summer or 40 total…?
No fucking way there are 40 seats at globals in Canada per year. Maybe 15 tops.
Yea 40 total
+1’ed for nepotism.
Even worse for global seats here. You will not get an interview firing an application into the portal.
Aren’t the big-5 Toronto IB analyst classes larger than that? Your numbers would imply that not every group has 1st year analysts
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do these numbers include spots filled through diversity programs? I know they all slashed intern numbers for 2025 but still seems a bit low
Yes, it was that competitive. I don’t n is the exact numbers but I’d guess 2-3 non diversity slots per bank. I don’t think there was a single non-diverse non-nepo placement in big 5 this year.
RBC had 15 SAs alone …
Del
It's really a function of too many candidates fighting for a much smaller pool of seats than in the US. Not because any of these firms are "elite".Like who in their right mind would recruit for Scotia otherwise lol
Unless it's Scotia Calgary; they are widely regarded as the crème de la crème in banking.
This is hilarious for those who get it
Spill the beans, I'm very not plugged into Calgary drama outside of what happened at RBC
Yeup- way too many people fighting for not enough spots in Canada. Breaking into IB in NYC as an American is vastly easier than breaking into IB in Canada as a Canadian.
worked on both sides of border for several years - getting a big 5 seat is way tougher than getting a BB seat. Recruiting anywhere but the US is tougher, frankly. many people who weren't at big 5s and have managed to make a move to the US during an upmarket have done very well.
Weren’t at B5 and made move to US BB? How?
Are you saying even Cormark mother fuckers made it there?
my friend was a non-target in Canada, had a sub 3 GPA. Couldn’t even get into a masters program to re-recruit in Canada let alone find a job. He’s working as an IB associate at a good boutique in the US. Not an elite one but he has a job and the team has offices across the US so he has optionality to lateral.
If you’re really dead set on the US, just go to school there and make your magic happen. Private equity probably won’t be in the cards for you, but you can work in IB..
People below are somehow agreeing with but refusing to acknowledge the point.
No one is arguing that BB NYC >>> B5 TO prestige-wise. However, Canada has 1/10th the population of the US and sends a much smaller fraction of students to Wall Street each year.
The kids who get to Wall Street from Canada are absolutely cracked and put most US analysts to shame, and that leaves a ton of extremely talented people fighting for very limited IB spots in Canada (which have low turnover).
The seat to applicant ratio in Canada is retarded and as others have said, there’s a ton of nepotism, so breaking in is VERY hard and as competitive IMO as US BB seats in NYC. It sucks to fight as hard if not harder for a worse seat.
I’ll also argue for B5 bankers in TO (incoming Canada’s gay / no one cares about Canada), they are strong analysts, and the program in Canada is quite good. B5 banks get a bad wrap because absolute retards go to the US offices but the Canadian divisions are much better.
Most accurate comment
What makes Canadian interns so much better than the U.S. counterparts? Are they technically better than maybe Wharton or Stern kids?
They actually have business undergrad programs and they’re well prepared to do on the job work through their investment clubs. It’s also way harder to get a seat in Canada because there’s barely any banks let alone good boutiques so you’re left with being nothing short of exceptional to work at a big five or work at a bucket shop. It’s just way harder to break in. We also don’t really have a lot of private equitY jobs so turnover is extremely low in Canadian IB. That’s why Canadians who don’t end up in IB in Canada end up in the US. They’re good there’s just not enough spots available.
In the US, the end goal is private equity or other by side jobs so people tend to leave so you have the option to try again. There’s also so many good banks available and even if you don’t break into a bulge bracket, there are hundreds of really good regional boutiques or global boutiques that don’t happen to be in the US. There’s just so many opportunities in the US.
Canadian IB is paradise
Not sure why people say b5 and not b6, which includes national. It's not as if bmo /cibc / Scotia are harder to get into than national
I think consensus states that, from now on, people should say "B5 + National" when discussing Canadian IB.
Not really following the need for sarcasm here
All B6 provide nearly the same exit opportunities here in Canada. And if you want to do ib or pe in the US, nearly all B6 will be perceived at the same rung - I.e. a notch below the GS/MS/JPM/Citi/BAML and the likes
having work both sides of the border, can attest that canada big5 is much much harder to break in. fewer jobs, high levels of racism and nepotism, and lack of growth are additional barriers to overcome even if you do get a spot
Unfortunately, based on my observations, if you are not white male or DEI (female / lgbtq), you will have a tough time climbing Canadian IB ranks. Racism in Canadian IB is subtle but far more potent than US
lol literally every reply you have is about white males and DEI, asian male cope
You are right, good luck getting any kind of front office employment in Canada if you don't have an anglo accent.
Canadian IB is a liberal cesspool. Paradise for underperforming white Beckys’ from affluent households filling up majority of diversity quotas. Beyond being incompetent, they have a chip on their shoulder given ho*n dog MDs provide them unwarranted attention / favors in the name mentorship. This gravy train will continue till there are sufficient number of competent juniors whose hard work will continue to subsidize these Becky’s and the MDs will continue to collect diversity cookie points from HR.
How are you doing? 😳
Getting a job at BMO Metals & Mining is actually quite easy if you are a homophobic bully
Tbh, nobody in the pit cares about your orientation unless you make it your sole personality trait
It was a joke about how the Metals & Mining group's culture is horrendous. 5 associate-director level people were fired recently for bullying juniors
Someone do the per capita analysis. Also was reading about Canadian mortgages recently. Y’all might be the dumbest people alive for that shit.
Someone do the per capita analysis. Also was reading about Canadian mortgages recently. Y’all might be the dumbest people alive for that shit.
What's going on with canadian mortgages?
Canadian mortgages dont offer fixed 30yr rates, you have to renew it every 1/2/3/5/10 years at the then current rate. So people who got mortgages in 2021 during 0% environment are now refinancing at 4/5/6 %, which is causing sudden jump in monthly payments upon renewal. Also, an abnormally large proportion of mortgages issued post-COVID were fixed payment but variable rate mortgages and now since rates have gone up, many borrowers are seeing that almost all of the payment is going towards interest and none towards principal, and in some cases, the fixed monthly doesn't even cover the total interest, which is leading to the negative amortization mortgage chaos.
To make it worse, I'm noticing that Canadian banks are putting government insurers (CMHC) and private insured mortgages under one basket of insured mortgages on their books, and recently 2 private mortgage insurers have taken market share from CMHC. The private insurers do not have the capital to absorb the losses if real estate prices go down 30-40% in Canada and its creating a false illusion of insured mortgages being safe on the bank's books.
I didn’t catch u the first time bro do u mind repeating that
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Thanks for the motivation (busting my cdn ib dream)
I disagree.
In the USA it seems to me that University/College choice matters a lot more for getting into High Finance.
In Canada, due to low population statistics, there is less competition to get into Canadian Undergraduate Business Schools to begin with (excluding International Students). I also feel that the CFA is more helpful in Canada for people generally and for career changers.
Quite the contrary. In Canada we have only like two targets that get you to where you want to be. There are less schools, less jobs so going to a non target is a lot harder to overcome than the US. In addition, there’s just way less banks, jobs are all centred in Toronto where in the US you can work anywhere across the states.
Bro everyone ik (at least 60+) got into Queens Commerce/Ivey. The idea of target schools doesn't exist in Canada. It's more like target clubs at these two schools. Everyone gets into these schools, but not everyone places in the clubs.
CFA is not helpful whatsoever to IB lol
Yeah this is not a great take. There's only like 2 target schools in Canada and a total of 2.5 cities you can have a finance job
On a per capita basis, the other posters are right that its harder to get a role in Canada than the equivalent kid in the US
As for CFA - no that's basically useless
Canadian job market has not been good for many years and from my conversation with similarly aged relatives, the job market in the late 2010s wasn't nearly as good as it was in the US. One of them tried breaking into Big 5 but ended up pursuing entrepreneurship. Have a younger cousin who graduated recently and is now working within the financial services division at one of the Big 4 accounting firms, I'm sure it was very competitive to get that role.
The only time I think where Canada may have been in better shape was around 2008-2012. Apparently, the GFC didn't hit them nearly as bad as it hit the US. The problem is, the job market never got significantly better beyond 2012 for the remainder of the 2010s when the US economy and quality of jobs for college grads were growing rapidly.
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