is it even worth it for international students anymore?
hey all, currently working in BB IBD as an international. back when I recruited things were much easier (most banks sponsoring) but I have noticed that firms have become less receptive to sponsoring for buyside recruiting in which it is virtually impossible to get a PE or HF gig without a H1 and the chances of getting a H1 are abysmally low.
Also, it seems like IBD recruiting is becoming virtually impossible with huge banks like JPM and Barclays putting an end to sponsoring. Is it really worth it to come to the US for finance anymore? I know friends at top targets who can't break in for SA 2021 cause it seems that all banks are against sponsoring. Could some current students/ analysts recruiting for IB/PE share their thoughts? Curious as I have friends deciding between which country to come to undergrad for.
While the atmosphere is more difficult than before, many restrictions are also temporary.
immigrant-visa ban: temporary and is not affecting students anyway, they are non-immigrants, at least for the first years while on F1 and then CPT/OPT/H1b (unless they marry someone or family sponsors). this ban will disappear after the pandemic.
non-immigrant ban: again, this is for the time being and I don't think this will last a lifetime. If an employer is willing to sponsor you, you will be fine at some point next year.
WSO makes is look like only the big employers are able to sponsor visas. This is not the case. Any employer can sponsor you (post-ban) if they are willing. Also, who says that the BBs are not going to sponsor for the next couple decades? Situations can and will change, maybe a student who starts in 2021 or 2022 will be sponsored in 2026/2027 with no problems?
At the end of the day studying abroad is more than just getting a visa - it is a conscious choice to be part of a great nation, learn about new cultures/languages and potentially bring this knowledge back home or stay longer. Also, there are many good countries out there.
nb: there is no shame in going back to your home nation either. nb2: People who are graduating imminently are clearly in a very difficult situation as most visas are blocked and they will most likely have to go home. But they may be able to come back in a few years from now.
I understand your point but historically banks that have stopped sponsoring have never really gone back to sponsoring. additionally, a lot of these smaller firms you mentioned don't sponsor at all- Blair, Baird, stifel, Lincoln etc etc. If anything things are going to get worse if not better.
and to your point about learning about culture yeah I agree it's helpful but is it worth a 320K investment if you have to go back home in which salaries are not even close to US salaries?
There is no general answer to these type of questions.
If an Asian dude hates his home nation and has set a goal to live in the USA, then yes, it is worth it. Because the F1 visa is the only (realistic) possibility for this person to ever come to the US and have a chance. So for people who really want to live and work in the US - does it really matter which employer in what industry sponsors them? I would argue no.
If an intl. professional is somewhat happy in their home nation (where they are seen as native, from a middle/upper middle class or even wealthy background and not a "foreigner"), with opportunities for a great career - then no, why would that person want to go through all these difficulties and most likely waste a ton of money just to end up in a worse situation.
Emigration is not black and white, is has many facets that need to be accounted for and only each individual can do that. However, many have "dreams" that are unrealistic and these people will wake up one day and realize they made a huge mistake in going to a Western country. All that glitters is not gold.
Will banks (GS/EVR/Moelis, for example) that are receptive about sponsoring historically still extend ft offers to summer analysts this year?
One thing I always wondered... if a person is willing to put this much money at risk to be in the great West, why not go all-in and marry a US citizen? Most if not all problems Asians have would be solved with this step and most of them at this age are single/unwed anyway. There must be hundreds of Asian women in the US willing to marry them? Am I missing something?
Why risk all of this money, time and effort and then not do everything it takes to stay?
because people dont want to have their marriage decisions be dictated by messed up immigration policies?
also imagine trying to find a partner for the sole reason of immigration. how do you think the other person will feel when he or she figures out.
also you are overrating american asian women's interest in men from asia. they may have same skin color but their life experiences are very different. its not a straight direct match and is kinda stupid to assume that
I don't know anything about this, hence the basic questions.
Also, the marriage should be bona fide, the immigration aspect can be a side effect though.
ok, if Asian women are not a possibility, there are hundreds and thousands of others who are potentially a match.
I assumed that college kids are in the best situation in their lives to meet someone else, it will be much more difficult after they start their professional careers. So assuming that one might be able to meet someone at university is not that unheard of, I think.
nb: my colleagues who have been working for a few years and are single can attest that dating in your 30s or even 40s is not for the faint of heart. It can be almost impossible once some men gain weight, become bald or other stuff that happens.
Why go through the entire immigration process that takes years, will cost you jobs and money to end up with a forced job (just because they sponsored and you got lucky on the H1b) and then look for a date? Why not look for the right girl when it is the easiest - in college? Are intl. students really willing to leave the country just because they didn't ask someone out?
Lol- are you suggesting that they get married at 22 when they are looking for a job?
I thought 19/20+4 years of undergrad ? 23-24?
Sit this one out chief you're talking out of your ass
How do you know Barclays doesn't sponsor?
I dont know if anything has changed for certain this year, but it's not that Barclays doesn't sponsor at all, it's just very difficult to convince them that you're worth sponsoring if that makes sense. Although I'd imagine given the current political and economical climate this is indeed a very difficult sell.
Related topic: why did banks stop sponsoring?
One reason is the anti-immigrant stance and the significant increase in RFEs and denials. This is money and time down the drain that an employer could have used on a candidate who doesn't require any sponsoring. Second reason is the current ban which will last until the end of the year, but could be extended - there is only so much time you can wait on a candidate. Third, there are plenty of local candidates available now, the pool is much larger than before. Without going into the political aspects of this, would you spend more time, money and effort if enough adequate applicants are already applying?
Is the increase in local candidates due to more people attending college than in the years or decades prior?
C8 is a dumbass. Period. Sorry C8
Very constructive feedback. What exactly is your problem?
Allow me to jump in C8
The current wait time for the marriage green card is about one and a half years. Once the process starts, it could take about 13 months. Both these times are probably significantly longer because of COVID and even after COVID because nothing's happening right now.
So that's about 31 months - say 2 and a half years for simplicity. Even if you meet the love of your life first semester of your freshman year, that's still not enough time to have the green card by the time you have to apply for SA and highly unlikely that you will have it by FT recruiting either. So you'll have to be applying as an international anyway buddy.
Oh btw your spouse also must have an income above a certain threshold - not very likely if you're both college students eh?
This, by the way, is assuming you manage to find your future spouse during college years, which is probably the biggest obstacle out of all. Now maybe you can consider why you're getting all this monkey shit man.
Class of 2020 here. Even with an Ivy degree and an incoming FT role, I think my path was borderline worth it. The stress, anti-immigration policies, and tuition fees you face is getting ridiculous. The number of firms you can realistically recruit at is far lower than before and I expect this number to only decrease in coming years.
Even having made it to IB, I don't know how many years I can stay in the US for or how long I even want to stay for. The general US sentiment is anti-immigration and I'm not sure what Biden can do about it. Also, it's not that easy to recruit/lateral back to your home country, so you may end up shooting yourself in the foot there compared with going to a regional university. Overall, I'd say unless your friends are going to HYPWS and are absolutely loaded, coming to the US may very soon become not such a good idea.
completely agreed
even people from HYPSW won't really be getting these IB gigs given the current trend of banks as strong as JPM and Barclays not sponsoring tbh.
True. I just meant that with those schools you would still get decent brownie points if you decided to go back home, or anywhere else in the world. Obviously the same would apply to other Ivies etc. but maybe to a slightly lesser degree. The 'cut-off' is debatable but you get the idea
Idt it's worth it. Rising junior at a decent school, top 50, have several banks that do OCR for both IBD and S&T. Firms that I can realistically recruit at is fewer than 10 (JPM, UBS, Barclays are no-no now). Although the Exec Order is temporary, it most likely will only get harder from here on. Too much uncertainty. Banks are moving towards trend of anti-F-1, not reversing anytime soon.
I thought Barclays sponsors for s&t?
Maybe, but they don't for IBD I heard.
graduated from a top 10 school and had the identical experience. it's such an uphill battle. I think only CS and SWE are pretty open to sponsoring still.
And to the above poster when from HYPSW it's getting borderline impossible
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