PJT Partners v Deutsche Bank London?
If you had to choose between the two which would go for and why?
Not sure which to choose for my summer
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Depends on the group
PJT by a country mile. Despite having some good teams, the DB LDN brand has taken a hit in recent years - HHs aren't as receptive, comp is below market (Analyst base is currently lowest amongst BBs) and heavy senior departures in key teams (TMT and Healthcare).
edit
Bonus this year was better than all EU BBs esp for top performers
Dunno what you're on about but base is in line with most peers.
what are the strong teams in DB London may I ask?
Overall PJT unless you are super keen on levfin.
Genuinely surprised how people on WSO forget that these EBs in America has 0 presence in Europe. Open Bloomberg and check out deals that PJT have been on, pretty sure it's similar to PWP, closing a maximum of 3-4 deals a year with the majority being MM deals. No one in their right mind would pick PJT/PWP over a BB in Europe unless they have an interest in pursuing RX.
Yes they would. DB is a bottom BB with recent brand and talent dilution, probably only good for LevFin (and possibly TMT ? Although not sure). PJT is definitely not as good as in NYC but pay will be higher, exit opps way better (especially to hedge funds, distressed and credit funds but would think in PE/VC as well), you get the boutique opportunity. The only advantage of DB is if you’re in a dead group you may get a good WLB. You can also still have good exits, a friend of mine went to a large cap fund from DB.
Btw these 2 banks are good despite what other people are saying.
Edit: actually to mitigate, this is only what I heard. I think I’ve never seen PJT on any deals I’ve worked on in EMEA (not CW or Evercore either actually, while Roth/Lazard are often there)
DB would be the easy choice for me here.PJT LDN ≠ PJT NYC. It's significantly weaker, and you barely see them on good M&A deals. Generally boutiques in EMEA are typically weaker than US, and BBs are stronger. It would be a whole different story if we were talking about a US office. On the contrary, DB is quite strong in EMEA, and you will have the chance to work on bigger variety of deals (M&A, DCM, LevFin). Also exposure to sponsors will be much better, given that all teams work on sponsor deals, due to deal flow coming from LevFin. If you manage to get on a good team, the experience will be significantly better, as many teams are very strong and win good mandates. Needless to say there are teams at DB that would blow any team at PJT out of the water (LevFin, Industrials, TMT). I've heard from friends that culture and pay in most teams are quite good. Overall DB hands down.
Would second this.
PJT LDN is a MM shop. Just look at the M&A deals they've done recently in EMEA (i.e. none).
PJT Rx is a different story though, but that depends on whether you are keen on Rx.
I think they closed only 4 in 2021 …..
Completely agree. DB LDN is certainly stronger than PJT LDN from every perspective. There are many good teams, and performance has been very good and improving. I'd definitely go with DB on this one, as you do not really see PJT LDN on anything.
Stating "stronger on every perspective" is just wrong. PJT RSSG is a top team out there and no team at DB carries the same brand or quality.
In London Id go for DB. Opinion would change if it were the US.
Also I'm sure you're aware that PJT LDN has a 2-year clawback on analyst bonuses, whereas DB does not. Very relevant consideration if you plan on exiting IB early.
I just want to point out that not a single person I have spoken to (various EU and UK targets and junior IBs) would choose DB over PJT
not a single one.
Momentum, pay and culture are serious considerations here and I'd say PJT wins on all of these metrics
Facts speak louder than words. PJT LDN 4 deals in 2021
someone at DB should come get their analyst
I'd say the same, amazed so many back-up DB here while no one I know would pick them over PJT. Ofc it's not the US, but I believe exits from PJT London are pretty decent
Key word here being "believe"
I would choose PJT just because of it being on Curzon street five blocks away from 5h and right by Berkley square
friend of mine was at CS TMT London last autumn, had a return offer and took PJT over CS
Couple points that seem lost on the “asked-a-friend” crowd here
WORK FOR PJT
thank you prospect.
ah fuck off, wtf do you know about ib? go suck off some hedge fund twat
Sorry to be that guy but a lot of you are letting your ego cloud your judgment. You have literally been shown that they closed 4 deals last year. 4. That’s a joke. Your argument that your “target” friends (that don’t work in ibd) would choose PJT is also a joke.
This is London. Not the US
If you want to do RX thats a different story, but for M&A, the facts are in front of you.
Well, I think this shows a misguided understanding of how boutiques are represented on league tables.
Many deals done by boutiques just aren’t published and so won’t be disclosed or listed by Bloomberg. Example: a boutique will advise an American MF on placing a pipe into a European company in order for that firm to go out and acquire an American company in a strategic growth area. In that case the boutique’s name may or may not be included in the announcement of EU firm buying American firm.
I do think DB is a fantastic firm and gives a ton of opportunity to work on large public deals in Europe. In contrast, it’s my experience that the smaller American boutiques in London tend to work in more exotic type situations and closely with Sponsors.
Whilst I agree with your points, the guys who are claiming exits and deal flow are superior at PJT are blinded by the US prestige.
DB analysts in this thread weren't around when Sewing laid off hundreds in 2018/19, it was the last place anyone wanted to be
Clocks must be off.. Didn't realize we were still in 2018...
DB for LevFin or if you have a genuine interest in a sector, otherwise PJT. Although even for credit PJT places well.
Of course there are good exits from DB, but their analyst class is large while PJT took maybe 5 and more recently 10+ analysts, so I'm not sure what you guys want to prove listing selected DB exits here.
Putting aside whether you would want to work at DB which has had its fair share of issues, a couple of posters earlier raise a very good point around PJT in London. It’s nothing like the US business. I’ve barely come across them on any deals and neither have other friends across a number of other banks. no two ways about it, they are a pretty weak shop in Europe. No doubt they pay well, but you should go in eyes wide open that you will come out of it with a pretty mediocre deal sheet. At some point in your career you won’t be able to hide from the fact you haven’t done many deals. I have nothing against the firm and think the US franchise is fantastic, but the UK business is a shadow of that.
It's questionable whether PJT can even afford to continue paying so well. LDN office has been losing millions every single year - one can easily verify this through their public filings. Also to the poster above who said they take ~10 analysts - their most recent classes have had ~20 analysts, assuming ~4-5 go into Rx that leaves ~15-16 working in M&A. Not looking great for a shop that closes 4 deals per year. What's 4 divided by 16?
PJT Analyst programme is generalist, so its not 16/4, but 20/4+the deals that RX brings in+whatever is undisclosed.
Trust me when I say that nobody at PJT complains about lack of dealflow..
i don’t know much about PJT london but when i went on exchange to the US to a top target school, people would literally trade in a pound of flesh to work for PJT (especially RSSG)
completely understand that it a completely different market here tho
PJT in the states is literally a top firm. PJT in London closed like 4 deals in M&A and their RSSG group is a shadow of the US one. Kinda like how rothschild is extremely weak in the states but very dominant in EMEA/London
Had a friend who interned in PJT LDN, it's better pay, better location and better culture. Heard they converted ~80% of interns last year and those who didn't were offered off-cycles or to come back following summer for a 2nd chance to convert, pretty good deal I'd say (they are also free to recruit elsewhere while having a free option). It's also a generalist programme, exit opps are also wider and relative to class size, place very well because of RX exposure.
Downside is the 2-year bonus claw back and weaker deal flow on M&A side is weaker but if that's a concern the RX group blows it out the water
Would go with PJT for the following reasons:
Having said this, DB has obv a very strong franchise too, especially in certain geographies, despite the recent troubles
do you know if PJT LDN fills any of the FT roles outside of their summer pipeline?
They have had off cycles interns recently. I’m aware of one that converted to FT
they did in the past - usually quite strong ppl and/or diversity. Not sure this year
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The way I see it, coming from the discussion in the forum, there are literally very few arguments in favor of PJT, mainly stemming from the US image. Given strength of both firms in the European market, the better choice would probably be DB. Pay differences at analyst level are immaterial and cannot justify in this case the large difference in deal flow and exposure you will get. Also, DB traditionally pays well.It all comes down to what are your priorities. If you prefer slightly better culture, slightly higher pay and more responsibility as analyst go with PJT.If you prefer stronger deal flow/teams, stronger presence in the market and brand and slightly better exit opps go with DB.
Totally off topic: does anyone know what’s the gpa cutoff for PJT and DB in London?
2:1
DB is based in Europe, so DB
Would personally take PJT because of the comp premium
I'll give my, biased, two cents.
Positive aspects of PJT:
- Unique analyst program in both Restructuring and M&A. It is true that PJT M&A group is not top-notch, but it has been hiring senior partners from all the major banks and the current dealflow is very high. Furthermore, in the past year M&A has been booming, but it will start cooling sooner or later. At the same time, with rates and inflation rising, restructuring activity is likely to pick up and PJT is among the strongest firms in that sector. Whether you are keen on the technicalities of rx is another story
- PJT london works closely with all the major funds, expecially in distressed situations, hence the incredible amount of people (in % terms) having offers from Apollo, Oaktree etc. Even heard of people refusing Apollo to stay as associates / VPs
- Pay can go up to 120k or more pounds as a first year analyst
Downsides:
- Everyone in Europe, even outside finance, knows Deutsche Bank. The same does not apply to PJT, which outside finance is not so well known (but you can always include "former Blackstone advisory" on your CV
- As said before, M&A dealfow has been historically not very high, although many deals could not be announced publicly
PJT doesn't have a good M&A deal flow. As you mentioned, M&A has been booming and they close 3-4 deals a year which majority are MM, when the economy starts cooling down then the M&A deal flow should also cool of using your logic. Likewise, many senior have also left in recent times, so poaching the poaching argument I am not buying.
I was speaking about current dealflow still in the process, not historical. I see it is like the 7th time you comment this post saying the same thing, but except for the data you posted on 2021 dealflow (with many deals not announced) I do not see any additional contribution. Please add a comment only if you have something new to say. People seriously take into consideration this forum.As someone mentioned earlier I hope your DB VP will soon staff you on something, as it is clear you have nothing to do.
This conversation is also reminding me of something else to consider when choosing your firm: the analyst class. I know as a matter of fact that many people at PJT declined offers from GS or MS, mostly because of the generalist experience. I do not know of any single guy who would pick DB over PJT tbh. Hence you ll probably find a stronger analyst class at PJT, and you can check this on Linkedin.
In terms of seniors leaving, could you please provide me some examples? Just curious
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Do 3 years at PJT you will end up with 100k more than after 3 years at DB. Regarding league tables, it does not mean there is no deal flow. You can be working on 2-3 buyside that just dont close but at analyst level it does not really matter if the deal closes or not - if you reach Biding offer stage and client does not win, you would have got the same experience as if your client had won the bid and still can put it on your CV.
Also, I do not think there has ever been a kid who went from PJT to any BB but you can see BB guys joining PJT.
If unsure, talk to any HH and you will see but honestly if you were smart enough to get an offer from PJT, im not sure why you are overthinking here.
This is the most full of shit post I've read so far. DB promotes assoc after 2 years. 100k more is extremely off how much more you will make (if any after pay hikes expected). FYI those 100k after tax are like 50-55? And still it's gonna be far from that. For Europe many many people would go to any BB instead of PJT. Literally haven't heard any of my friends at BBs in London considering moving to EBs at junior level (senior is different) so not sure who you are chatting with at your Uni. This comment is just full of false info
Not talking about analyst program. I said do 3 years ie A1, A2, Asso1 (they both have 2 years Analyst program) - Not even sure how much DB pays as promotion bonus/Asso sign on, if any.
Is DB analyst program 3 years?
2 yrs
If someone is wanting to exit after 1/2 years isn't DB the better option from comp perspective then? PJT bonuses have that clawback clause after all.
Omg! I am quite shocked someone is even comparing PJT vs DB...
PJT because:
1) Payment is much higher
2) Gentle reminder that PJT is the carve out of Blackstone Advisory. These guys are killing it
3) Culture at PJT >>>>>>>>> Culture at DB
4) M&A has not been great at PJT, but you definitely see them getting mandates on some nice buy-sides and as a junior you will learn a lot
5) PJT picks like 20 smart kids per year vs DB has like 200 grads, so you would be in a much better crop (i.e. your peers will probably be good)
6) PJT has poached many bankers from the different BBs and there is a reason for that. Payment / Culture / Career opportunities / etc
7) If you are not sure about that, you can certainly find a guy moved from DB at PJT and he will tell you 313,214x reasons why you should choose PJT over DB lol
8) Prestige!!!! You will be one more kid from DB vs one of the few guys who ve got the chance to try PJT
9) Exits. As an intern at PJT you will already get HH sending you multiple messages to recruit for MFs, let alone once you become analyst/associate vs DB does not get looks from HHs unless LevFin
10) Cmon kid! This comparison does not make sense... Personally, I would never go for DB over PJT, but good luck with your choice!
Can confirm that previous interns at PJT LDN have gone to MFs and targeted by HHs
Can confirm too
There's no way this post wasn't written by a high schooler or college kid. Some of these points are valid though.
"Prestige" - rando European asks where you work:
>"PJT",
>"what?"
If OP wants to leave finance as an exit opp DB is the clear winner here. If they want rx experience then PJT is the winner. Stuff in between is subjective.
You should probably remove that guy's name from your post, don't think he would appreciate getting doxxed on a public message board.
I guess PJT hires high schoolers now
Lmao
Thanks for all the opinions. I actually have another offer from JP too and would appreciate any opinions. (JP v PJT v DB)
Before you consider JPM, I would read up on the thread about the bank rescinding signed offers due to the fact they “hired more people than needed for SA”
Could you link the thread please?
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