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If you want the banking experience, do Guggenheim. GCM isn't even banking.
Guggenheim if you want banking.
MS - there is plenty of opportunity to move for good performers (if IBD is your goal)
21830 and animalz,
Really appreciate your response. I have noticed that some GCM analysts move to IBD in their third year. What's your take on that? What are some pros and cons of doing that over going to Guggenheim IBD?
not sure because you are talking about US but since it is only a SA position, maybe you could start in IBD fresh as a FT
just speculating tho, but I've heard that it is definitely possible
MS LevFin, otherwise Guggenheim
Sav,
Appreciate your response. Why LevFin though?
Guggenheim has been pulling in good dealflow but has 0 demonstrated track record of good lateral opportunities and PE placement.
Gugg for sure
goblan,
Thanks! Can you please elaborate on that? What's your thought on the sentiment that Guggenheim is a one-hit wonder? I am referring to Verizon deal. Do you have any contacts at the firm? Really appreciate your help.
Not a one hit wonder. If you want to do advisory work, Guggenheim is a strong contender.
I have a few friends on the 4th floor of MS. They say that its not as easy to switch to IBD as people say (you still have to interview with IBD) and that GCM is where you want to only if you want to consider a long term career in capital markets. I would go with Guggenheim. Great elite and reputation and would set you up with better modeling experience. If you go to MS GCM, its more coverage and marketing based and conversely you will not have as much modeling experience compared to analysts in IBD. Thus if buyside is part of your consideration you will have a tough time moving there.
kidflash and Powa23 - Thanks! I really appreciate your time and will keep in mind what you just said. trader07 - Thanks! You raised a very interesting point about being able to spin capital markets for IBD, S&T, and IMD.
Any other thoughts?
-
If you want to do investment banking pick Guggenheim. It sounds like you have little interest in capital markets and are only considering MS for the associated prestige.
Yes. As I mentioned in my original post, I have always wanted to do advisory work over capital markets.
If you want to do banking, go to Gugg. GCM doesn't have a good culture, terrible hours (market hours...you wish), and weak exit ops. It is also very hard to move internally from gcm to banking I've heard. However, if you want to build a long term career in capital markets, go to GCM.
I agree that GCM doesn't necessarily have good hours and attractive exit opportunities. However, I am interested in knowing what you meant by the division not having a good culture. Thanks for your help.
I am not very bullish around BB banking over the next few years. I think there is reason to believe that the elite talent, especially at the senior levels, will continue to leave the BB platforms in search of compensation. The boutiques have a distinct advantage there in that they are not regulated/politically targeted. I don't know how quickly it will happen, but my view is that the real advisory work will be done increasingly by boutiques. The BB may be given a co-advisory role in order to secure access to the balance sheet, but the real advisory work will be done by the boutiques.
Implicit in that shift is the eventual shift in perception. Perception is more "sticky" than reality, so it may take some time for the people in F500 finance to recognize what has happened. The people closer to IB (PE, hedge funds, etc) will recognize more quickly (and many already have).
Long way to say: even if you had a real banking offer from MS, I think that a place like Gugg or EVR is a better choice.
Highly respected (and certified) users of WSO will tell you that:
If you want to be in investment banking, then take a job in investment banking.
The myth of the easy BB lateral is exactly that, a myth.
Personally, I'm a little sick of these "BB Janitor or Boutique M&A" type posts that always come up.
I think I have enough responses to make a decision. Thank you for your advice. Apologies to those who think my post came across as redundant. Have a great weekend!
Forreal wtf is the point of this thread. How many times do you need to hear the same thing from complete strangers to finally allow yourself to do what you wanted to do all along?
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