Hello everyone, I am sharing this because Andy and Patrick said it may be useful for some younger users. I legitimately believe that WSO helped me get my career started. About me: I grew up in the roughest part of town nearby a big city (think Ferguson Missouri, Flatbush Brooklyn, Baltimore, Detroit, etc). My dad was a substance abuser and my mom found “homes” by finding a new boyfriend to move in with. I had two brothers and sisters. I didn’t finish high school because we got evicted when I was 16 and we couldn’t find any place to stay. I got a GED and worked for a landscaping company. Anyways after doing that for a few years I got mad at my boss one day, quit, and enrolled at a community college. From there I transferred to the closest four year university with the thought “ok ill major in business!” with no other plan. I got interested in banking my sophomore year but too late in the game to be on the right cycle for internship recruiting, so I missed out on any summer analyst roles. I also had to work full time to support myself so I had a job as an overnight stocker at a big retailer from 11pm to 7am, took classes from 9am to 4pm. I also drove for Uber on weekends. My junior and senior years I did a bunch of local internships from my schools on campus recruiting. They all sucked. “Intern - accounting” was my title. I essentially licked stamps, surfed the web, data entry, etc. My big break came when I decided I wanted to network heavily. I made it my goal to contact 10 strangers per day. I had literally zero alumni network in banking. After 6 months of doing this I found a guy who for whatever reason took pity on me and he made an introduction to his buddies who managed a very small hedge fund in NYC. They had me do a crazy long interview which included a case study where I had to build a 3 step model from scratch in under a couple hours and then make an investment pitch. They let me come on as a pseudo intern for a couple months with no chance for a full time offer, but I took it anyway. So I paid for the resume service here and I started applying for jobs in July / August and through that short experience at the hedge fund I got an interview with a very large investment bank, who loved my story and gave me a full time offer on the spot. I’ve been at this role about a year now and I get buy side offers almost every day through LinkedIn and I’m getting ready for business school in case that doesn’t work out. My life literally never would have taken me this far if a kid at school had not told me “you should check out Wall Street oasis.” Anyways, ask me anything.
I don't particularly have any questions but came on here to express that you deserve a lot of respect for your story, a true testament to tenacity.
Thanks! Really appreciate it.
Seriously, inspiring story and really respect the hustle.
What school did you go to? I grew up very similar to you; low income in Newark, NJ; dad was on drugs heavy, mom grew up in Jim Crow and didn't get an education at all. I'll be starting my first job in consulting and did pretty much the same of contacting strangers throughout college. Just happy to see how far you've come. Thank you for sharing.
I’d rather not say as it would immediately identify myself but it was not even a semi target. Just your run of the mill state university. Our football program is all we really care about. Top 100-50 ranking academic ranking. Probably admits 50% of applicants.
UNL?
Damn impressive
No questions, just came here to throw you an SB and say ditto. While not quite as rough a start, I owe a large portion of my success to what I learned here.
Yep I literaly didn’t even know the difference between PWM, S&T, AM, ER, etc before I came to this website. Props to everyone for the help.
nothing to add, but if you ever want to make the jump to PWM, my team could use someone with your hustle. PM me anytime.
bravo sir.
I almost did PWM. I just don’t think I can handle cold calling. I know that once you build your book it can be really cushy. I’ll think about it!
if you met 10 strangers a day, worked 3 jobs to put yourself through school, and ended up where you are, cold calling will seem like doing a 5k after you just got out of Navy SEAL training. you're right, at the beginning, anything new is scary, but that wanes
Great work johndoe2019
& thanks WallStreetOasis.com you have helped so many people, myself included
Thank you!
Given how many in IB come from very affluent backgrounds, how much of a culture shock have you experienced?
It’s insane. The waste and excess - I literally can’t wrap my head around it. Let me share a couple examples.
1
I’ve got an associate who wears $2000 tailored suits, a $6000 Rolex, and $800 ferragamo shoes every day. My first day, he asked me “where do I get my suits done?” The answer was I of course bought them at Goodwill. I couldn’t understand paying more than that. Find a Jos. Bank jacket in my size, then pay a few dollars to have it altered. I apparently looked shabby and was told to fix this. I haven’t, only my associate cared, my director doesn’t. This guy will wear his expensive loafers even when it’s raining, by the way. He also once complimented my watch that I bought at Walmart (it’s a Timex). Backhanded compliments, odd flex but OK.
2
We get seamless every day if we stay past 6. We get a cab every day if we stay past 9. On seamless orders, I make sure not to be excessive, because I don’t want to be wasteful. All of my coworkers think I am insane and spend the maximum dollars they can spend every time. Similarly, an Uber home would cost upwards of $50-70 depending on surge. I think this is super wasteful and I still take the subway.
3
I once made an analogy to a different associate where I said “it’s like lay-away.” He looked at me like I was crazy. “What the fuck is that?” “You know, where you set the merchandise aside and you make payments on it until you take it home later? I did this at Kmart for Christmas gifts all of the time.” He has literaly never heard of this before.
4
The summer interns asked me “Where are you from?” I say “Home State.” They say “No, where? I’m from [small town] in Connecticut.” Like I would fucking know where this was. Their whole world view was so ego centric they just assumed everyone would know every suburb of Stamford like “oh yeah! I leave my yacht there. Nice place!”
5
Last summer my portfolio managers would go out for drinks once a week. They regularly ran up $5000 tabs doing shots of Casamigos. This is the tequila for people who think they know what classy tequila is based on cost. I mean duh, it’s got George Clooney on the commercial, it has to be good right? Five fucking thousand dollars to reserve a section at Mr. Purple. That was literally all I had to live on for a semester. The view is nice but everyone there were your stereotypical Instagram wannabes. I’d much rather go to a place like Blue and Yellow.
6
One of my Vice Presidents asked me if I had ever been to Buenos Ares. I had not. In fact, I’ve only ever been to Canada and this was by accident taking the wrong exit on the freeway. He was shocked - told me how “tickets are so cheap! You absolutely must go.”
7
On three separate occasions I bought a bus ticket to New York that left on a Wednesday. The greyhound was more expensive so I bought from the Lucky Star Lines. Instead of spring break or winter break, I instead spent the week going out for coffee with random bankers I found on Bloomberg at the library. This led to my interviews at the hedge fund last year. At my current job they still talk about this (much to my embarrassment)
I’ll post some more as I can think of them. I’ve got loads more stories.
You remind me of the situation I am in now. Good to hear you made it.
I just spit my coffee out... This...so much this.
great response!
Being wasteful and rewarding yourself for becoming successful are very different, with that being said, how do you draw that line between luxuries that aren't necessary but are a nice reward for all of your hard work, resulting in being able to financially afford splurging on yourself every now and then?
Props on the come up, I had to make something out of nothing too so I respect it and know the struggle.
That said, are you really from the hood? Where I grew up (think drug-infested, violent little ghetto hell), every time someone gets a little money he/she spends it on designer shit he/she can't afford, watches, chains, etc. Conspicuous consumption/wastefulness is hardly limited to the banking world.
I feel you on the fact that it's such a small, self-contained world of privilege. Everyone is a frat brother of this one or that one, they "summered" in the same place, can't imagine another way of life. It is what it is though, we don't get into this to make friends. We make friends to get into this.
You should at least take the UBER home. Your time is very valuable, to yourself and to the company, and by taking the UBER you are making sure to save yourself time so that you are more rested and able to be more productive at work. Considering how much clients are probably paying for your work, its more wasteful to take the subway and not maximize an opportunity to get rest.
If you stick it out in IB, these examples demonstrate what your kids will likely be like. Your parents didn't do IB or some other high paying profession (no shame there, just pointing it out), so you were raised differently. Gives you some perspective, doesn't it.
Funny what you mentioned regarding the associate. Now that I have restarted a new career the younger folks banter around me and given my now lack of seniority I am in on the conversation. They have an obsession with clothing - something that no one gives a fuck about past the age of 27+. As long as you look presentable (read a suit that has been altered so it fits and clean and irons shirt, you are good...)
Liked your story OP
Thanks for sharing your story!
Did you do anything special for yourself once you finally made it and starting bringing home the IB pay?
No problem!
I do not do anything special for myself. I actually don’t think I make enough money to live in NYC. I’m told it’s going to be better at year two but I don’t have anything in writing. Bonuses haven’t been paid yet. I have a suspicion I am being underpaid relative to my peers because I wasn’t exactly in a situation where I could negotiate on an offer.
My portion of rent is $1500 (I have a roommate). Plus student loans, tax withholding, metro card, food, etc, I honestly have very little left over each month. I also have a monthly medical expense that I absolutely must have in order to live which costs me about $350 a month (that’s with insurance). I went without this for many years by the way, I actually used to ration my medication because it was so expensive.
Are any of you able to save money? I’m not really.
Your rent sounds pretty good by NYC standards especially with just one roommate.
At a BB, you should be making $85k as a first year analyst. If it's below that, you're underpaid. Are you part of the first year analyst class or more of a junior analyst?
I’m rooting for your success. One day, you’ll be wearing the ’Gamos and the nice watch. It will pain you a bit to buy them, but then you’ll realize what an insanely small percent of your income it is and you’ll pull the trigger. Maybe I’m wrong. I didn’t grow up in as rough a spot as you did, but was the first in my family to graduate from college and grew up nowhere near Manhattan (physically, but more important, psychically). Everything was a shock to me as well, but like everything in life, you become accustomed to your environment.
That being said, save as much money as you reasonably can and invest it. Twenty years from now, you will have what you consider a shockingly large amount of money to you right now. It likely won’t feel like as much as you would like twenty years from now, because expectations change over time (if that makes any sense).
The quickest way to burn through cash is to pay for all the bills for your family members. If they have an inkling that you’re making anywhere near the kind of money you will be making in 5-10 years, they will likely be all over you for ‘loans’ or ‘investments’. Do not do it. That’s the death spiral of your cash flow. Your best course of action is to never tell a family member or friend how much you earn or have banked. Never. Nothing good can possibly come out of it, other than your momentary ego boost. Repeat: do not brag about your success to family, even to your parents (often, especially your parents).
Thanks for the kind words.
I actually don’t talk to my parents at all. They were pretty toxic and I cut them out of my life when I turned 18. I have friends back home who constantly ask me to hook them up with references or a to help them get interviews. I want to help but they only ever put in a fraction of the effort I did. I’m torn. I don’t want to stick my neck out for somebody who will make me look bad, but I also want to help them a lot.
As far as investments go, I just max my 401k in a target date fund. I don’t have the cash to put away more than that at the moment.
Do NOT stick your neck out for friends like that. Social capital is one of your most precious resources. Do NOT burn it carelessly for people who do not have your same level of dedication. I know you might feel like a prick at first, but trust me, you'll regret it 10.0x if you do.
Sounds like you have a story
Why’d this get MS?
The part about family is sooo true. I make nowhere near most of you guys and might as well be Bill Gates when I go around the extended family.
Nothing to ask, but just wanted to say much respect to you bro. Your perseverance and pushing yourself against all odds is incredibly inspiring. Wish you the best of luck
Thanks for doing this AMA. Your story is really inspiring.
There's no doubt that WSO is a great resource, especially for people with limited exposure and resources to finance. However, the accelerated recruitment process has undoubtedly narrowed the timeframe and the odds for an inner-city student to learn about and prepare for the recruitment process for junior year IB SA internships. How often have you run into other peers from working-class backgrounds, both during the recruitment process and now? Are their stories about recruiting and breaking in generally similar to yours, and do you stay connected with them?
Did you find it difficult to initially network with representatives due to your atypical background? I have some friends from upbringings similar to yours, and they feel out of place sometimes at events like networking lunches. Aside from general advice, they still struggle with how to bring up and highlight the strengths of their background (first-gen, low-income, immigrant, etc) without invoking pity or awkwardness.
I know you discussed the culture shock in detail in a previous response, but have you at any point felt disconnected from your family and friends (who might still be struggling to get by) ever since breaking into IB?
1
I have never run into people who were formerly working class. I have, however, run into people who were from Brooklyn or the Midwest who were closer to “normal.” Some of them are similar to my story. I know two individuals in particular that both went way over the top to get noticed; one started a club on campus and the other started a trading company (with student loans for startup cash!). I’ve tried to stay connected with them - I’d say we speak about once a month still.
I also met two people from a rural area in another continent. Their hometown was exactly what Trump was alluding to when he said “why do we have to take people from these shithole countries?” They both had scholarships to wayyy better schools than I went to. They were so smart! I felt entirely inadequate around them. They told me how they networked - both coincidentally got in the same way; by attending every XYZ Society meeting they could find and shaking hands with people.
2
Yes, very. I initially tended to really emphasize my background and this really made people uncomfortable. I remember talking to this guy who was a director at Morgan Stanley. Nice guy but he asked me why I wanted to do banking and I told him it’s because I wanted respect. He goes “you know the left thinks we’re fucking cockroaches right? Nobody will give you a job to make you feel better.” I thought this was great advice. I don’t even bring up my background anymore or if asked I downplay it a lot. I think this has actually helped. These guys have absolutely no way to relate or understand and I’m not looking for a pity party.
3
Yes, all of the time. I’ve lost touch with some people and I think some of them have me pegged as “the banking guy” and that’s all I am to them now. Some examples:
I have one close friend who was probably smarter than me. Except he’s working at some warehouse because he got arrested twice in the past year for having pot on him.
There is also this culture of failure back home. I say how I worked hard for something and they say “what’s wrong with working someplace back home?” I tell my friends who are also interested in banking to do this and that and they say “ok!” and then they never do it.
One guy in my schools’ MBA program called me one day and asked if I would forward his resume. I asked him why he wanted to do banking and he said essentially “it seems cool.” I then asked him “what do investment banks do?” and he goes “they buy and sell stocks right?” Dude was in the mba program and still had no idea what an investment bank even does. And you know what? I was exactly the same way three years ago. Because my school just never taught this stuff. Nobody ever dreamed of doing this and the school never bothered to try getting banks to recruit. They had plenty of life insurance salesmen at the career fair though.
Love the story, and as someone from a very middle class neighborhood in the Midwest, I can vouch that even after 10 years in the industry, you never get used to (or respect) your co-workers who come from unimaginable coastal wealth and can't fathom that everyone didn't look and grow up like them. Best of luck for as long as you're able to tolerate your environment and stay in the industry.
Spoiler alert - we are.
Thanks for sharing your story! Truly inspirational
Recognising that you spent some time off the "normal path", how old were you when you entered IB? Are you older by a couple of years compared to the other analyst?
A few years older. I definitely feel like I wasted a lot of time in previous years and I am very conscious of this. I do know of a few analysts that were older than me but typically you would expect somebody to have a graduate degree to enter banking at my age.
Was wondering the same thing. Any chance you can share your exact age? I know it may be the wrong mindset, but I feel like I'm too old to break into IB (without an MBA at least). Your story is really inspiring. Obviously you worked hard, but how much of your success would you attribute to luck? What if you didn't get a shot at that small HF for example?
Love it! You definitely deserve it! How did you go about meeting strangers? LinkedIn or just on the street? How did you keep the contacts alive? And especially how do you manage to get so many buyside offers coming in?
So for meeting strangers, I leveraged public networks. On a Bloomberg terminal (which yr NYC public library has for free in some locations) you can type PEOP and it has a really large database. You can filter by all sorts of things. Similarly, you can make a free trial CapIQ account or FactSet account with a student email and they have people searches. In addition, I used LinkedIn a lot, but people weren’t as responsive on this. I’d also go to every CFA society event I could manage. Basically I’d just find something I have in common and run with that. One guy had on his public profile that he’s a sponsor in Alcoholics Anonymous. I had a lot of experience with this so I mentioned that in my email, and he was kind enough to push my resume to HR who actually called me back. Didn’t get that job though.
Another thing is I looked up funds that I was interested in. I’m partiuparly interested in lev fin and securitizations so I looked up lev fin funds on google, found their personnel bios, and just emailed or called them out of the blue. A surprisingly high number of people were sympathetic to this.
You can get very creative here. LinkedIn isn’t the only way. For example, on one of my NYC trips I literally just walked down 6th Avenue, walked in to buildings wearing my nicest suit and a folder with a hundred resumes. I’d go to the security guard and say “oh I’m sorry I’m not on the list, can you buzz me up to floor whatever?” Surprisingly this worked a non zero number of times. Once I got in there was always somebody at the elevator room who’d let me in, then I would literally hand my resume to the person at the front desk! You’re going to think I’m making this up but in occasion I bumped in to a guy who was a senior VP who sat with me and told me what I needed to do. He appreciated the hustle and gave me a great reference.
Another example - during one of my internships I used to see a lot of trades go through the treasury department. The internship had zero technical application but we did process transactions. I wrote down the names of the bond traders on the trade tickets and looked up their emails, then contacted them later. Again, they were actually surprisingly nice and gave me advice or actually forwarded me in the right direction.
I also emailed Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein. That didn’t go anywhere though. I figured I had nothing to lose. Lloyd, in case you’re reading this, I’d love to chat about your time being a hot dog vendor at yankee stadium.
For staying in touch - there were a lot of posts on that on WSO. I’d keep a spreadsheet and keep track of all communication. Also I wouldn’t email people for no reason, I’d always have something.
I get the general sense that bankers want to help people (specifically the right people who show dedication), they’re just too busy most of the time. All it really takes is a well written two sentence email.
hey, anyone who told me I'm crazy for saying you should be going into buldings and cold calling people asking for advice, READ THIS
respect the hustle kit, well done
I love your replies as much as your original post, you're a pretty cool guy! I might bump into you in an elevator maybe ;)
Hey,
Great story, I appreciate it. This is powerful especially since poverty is often looked down upon and the poor despised. Mercy rejoices over judgement.
In the Bible King David went from sheep herder to a big name on earth.
I took you from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: And I was with you wherever you went, and have cut off all your enemies out of your sight, and have made you a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. - 2 Sam 7:8
This might seem like a stupid question, but how are you supposed to network? Do you just reach out to people on LinkedIn? Find people's email addresses online and email them? And when you do, what do you say in those messages without sounding like you just want a job? I'm pretty clueless about how to network so any tips here would be greatly appreciated!!
I would first talk about what you have in common, maybe same school or love of a sport. I have been doing some emailing with some cousins of cousins of cousins before I go to college next year. I started with and intro and then basically asked for advice or if we could set up a call. My email in a nutshell: Hi my name is Carson Wentz and I am planning to attend NDSU next year. I am very interested in Finance and Real Estate, and have a particular interest in investment banking. I had a few questions and I was wondering if you could set up a time to talk. and then add on some polite stuff, talk about it being quick etc. I am not the most experienced with this but it worked both times for me, take it for what you will.
flyeaglesfly
Seriously just call them or email them. Calls work better. It’s harder for them to blow you off if you’ve literally got them on the phone - but be respectful of their time and thy might be in the middle of something. Contact analysts or associates and not directors.
I wouldn’t do what the guy below you said. Too much buildup. Plus, you’ll sound interested in too many things and the guy won’t be able to help you. If somebody emailed me and said “hey I’m interested in lev fin, equity research, and sales and trading” I probably wouldn’t even respond since it’s clear this guy has no idea what he wants to do.
Just do this:
“John,
I’m a student at [YOUR SCHOOL (or if you’re at a non target, just say your major and omit your school!)] and I’m really interested in a career in [WHATEVER IT IS THAT THE GUY YOURE EMAILING DOES]. I was wondering if you had five minutes to share how you got there and maybe offer me some advice?
Thanks a lot for your time. I know you’re busy so I am free for a call at [LATE PM (>5pm)] or [EARLY AM (
John,
Truly inspiring. I as well started at a community college and am now at a non-target. In the same fashion you found yourself a little late to the recruiting game, I believe I may be on the same boat. I have strong leadership positions on campus and have always been in these roles. Unfortunately, as a result of burning out working 35-40 hours a week to stay afloat and support myself in New York, my GPA suffered last semester. I am graduating fall 2020 so I have this summer and next summer left for internship opportunities. I am still seeking opportunities out for this summer but have accepted that I won't be getting a position at a BB for IB. I am now looking at MM shops. So my question to you is, how do I navigate around a GPA that has been hurt and coming to the recruiting cycle late in the game?
Just don’t mention your gpa. Is your “major gpa” better? Just list that. What about consolidating your community college and university gpa? I took a bunch of cupcake courses at community college which, if combined, will boost my gpa.
Also you could retake a class. My university allowed up to four retakes. I got one C and I retook it and got an A, which helped my GPA.
In terms of middle markets ... I wouldn’t restrict yourself at all. Why just middle markets? Do you have something against smaller shops? You realize that middle market is still a fucking huge bank right? Once you’re in the industry it doesn’t matter where you do the work, so long as you’re getting relevant deal experience. I would cast as wide a net as possible. I personally was targeting New York but I applied at banks in other cities ... and not just Chicago and LA but going pretty far down the list of major cities ... I was willing to go to Mobile Alabama if it meant I got to do IB ...