Summer 2025 Carnage: Guggenheim Edition
Word is Guggenheim just made deep cuts across both analyst and associate intern classes. Not just the folks coasting either — people who were buried in live deals, logging long hours, and seemingly tracking well… all cut with little to no explanation.
Hard to tell if this is just a Gugg thing or an early warning sign of what’s coming across the Street. But either way, feels like something’s shifting. The usual cues — busy staffing, decent feedback, solid output — don’t seem to mean much right now.
As someone at another bank waiting on return decisions, this is not reassuring. Makes you wonder if the usual markers of “strong performance” even matter this cycle.
If this is the tone being set for return offers in 2025, we might be looking at a much messier recruiting cycle than anyone expected. Keep your head on a swivel.
markets are fine, it might just be Gugg thing
Not true; I am at a mid-tier bank (Barc, BoFA, Citi) and confirm that we are not giving as many returns as we would've liked to. That's not unique to just my group; other groups are having the same issue. The intern class that was hired was hired with the expectation that 2025 would see a massive boom in all activity, and although deal fees and volume are up, they are nowhere near enough up to justify similar return rates as even last year. Unfortunately, the rough job market extends to IB. Please don't give people false hope; maybe RX is fine, but traditional IB at the BBs isn't. It's also very abundantly clear not fine by the distinct lack of lateral job posts and all the junior-level firings recently.
Congrats on Barclays!
what was the RO compared to last year?
Many of the Bofa groups had 100% return rates with those not getting returns being the people with obvious things that would ding them any year
As a gugg intern that was just cut - can confirm lol
Can I ask what office?
NY
By deep cuts I assume you mean low full-time offer rate? How bad are we talking?
Honestly, not surprising as I’ve heard from some that Guggenheim expanded too quickly
expecting 2025 returns to be brutal, rumours of course but not hearing great things from interns @ other banks.
FT 2026 will be a bloodbath.
I know my bank and a few other BBs are not doing FT recruiting, period. Have heard lots of complaints both in my group and from other fellow analysts across the street that interns they liked aren't getting returns. It's very rough out here. There is seemingly one terrible return rate year every few years, and it seems like c/o 2026 is going to get unlucky.
do you know this for sure?
Was at a top MM (not Gugg.) and ended up not getting a return despite being told I produce top work among SAs. Trying my luck at FT but not sure how hopeful it’s looking.
Gugg intern here too. I got cut as well. Not sure how many were cut so I can’t confirm the rumors.
obviously feel bad but worried for myself too at a different bank.
was you coasting or did good performers actually get cut too?
Received a very positive mid-summer review (enthusiastic, good attitude, wants to learn, follows instructions well, great communication) and had to improve attention to detail (who doesn’t?). I made a strong effort to improve upon this. Checked my work over many many times. Received amazing feedback after the mid-summer review / towards the end as well from all my analysts / associates “thank you, this was excellent and saved me a lot of time” “I just wanted to let you know that you’ve really improved on XYZ” “This is a complex company and you did a great job on this staffing” etc. I got all this feedback without asking so I know they meant it and weren’t just afraid to tell me I was doing badly. I got more and more responsibility as I demonstrated I was competent. I literally feel like there’s nothing else I could’ve done. I know other kids who worked their butts off and got cut too.
Edit: Guggenheim never posted a FT application for associates or analysts (except for the LA and Richmond offices which are brand new) which confirms Gugg overhired and/or is having problems.
Incoming Gugg 2026, should I be worried?
uk or us or both
I was an intern in the US and it wasn’t pretty. Not sure about the UK. Think we have a very small presence there.
Bump
fwiw everyone who didn't receive an offer was egregiously bad
someone apparently would leave at 6 everyday
Intern Class size and return rate?
Return rate for NYC across generalists, product, across the board was 65-75%
tryna hear more on this
Maybe related or not but Jefferies just poached 4 MDs from Guggenheim (post yesterday on LinkedIn). Could also be a reason for the low return rate, especially in the tech/tmt team.
That’s a completely different office / team and not the generalist program discussed here
Ah so turned out to be completely unrelated
MORE md poaching?? wtf jefferies. looks like junior banker bonuses are gonna be disappointing for another few years now
Can confirm most groups had ~65-70% return rates. By no means carnage. Let’s all admit the days of banks offering 95%+ of interns are over. Just because you work hard doesn’t mean you get an offer. Plenty of characteristics and variables are weighed outside of how long you stay in the office or how quickly
You respond to emails as some have referenced . Banks across the street are going to be laser focused on hiring the highest quality talent, not all talent. If you intern anywhere, be prepared not only to work really hard but truly seize every opportunity you have. Hopefully a good lesson for the next wave of interns and analysts.
The program is generalist. Do you mean a 65-70% return offer rate for the overall program? I just mentioned responding fast as an example of trying to do everything. That of course wouldn’t get me a return alone.
There are several regional and product groups at Gugg. Interns are generalist within a product but you’re likely not going to rotate between M&A vs RX vs LevFin, for example.
65-70% return rate for most groups this year is accurate. I.E. Decisions were rolled out by product group, not blanket to all interns.
Predictions for return rates next summer? Better or worse? Presumably large classes as well if the headcount targets were set last fall / early winter
Was ugly. From what I've gathered, Gugg way overestimated the coming dealflow when they recruited this class.
They hired way too many summer analysts and associates and then lost even more business to MD poaching.
Rumors were out there would be a deliberate move to reduce the class size, so this was not entirely unexpected. Any singular badish reviews were likely immediate cuts. After that you probably didn't want to have made your best relationships in TMT (lost some MDs and had a bunch of layoffs a few months back, just lost 4 MDs to Jefferies, is apparently being shuffled around).
Also it was not a good year to be from a shitter school lol. Sucks for those guys but the bank has relationships with its target schools and they are damaging those relationships with every cut.
Overall seems like some kids that didn't deserve returns got axed as usual, but a whole ton of kids that were grinders got passed over without any explanation. Seems like more of a Gugg issue than a larger trend but we'll see as returns at other banks roll out
I assume product specific - any insight on this summers RX class?
all received returns (summer assos included)
All cuts were for performance or fit reasons. There were spots for all of you (yours truly, Gugg banker)
Can you elaborate on the reasons you cut people. Thanks.
You should reach out to the HR team and they will share what they can. The intern perception of “a good intern”has a lot of potential to be different than current employees definition of “a good intern”
Long hours does not equal good intern, just to be clear
Related Side Point:
A while back a senior mentor of mine shared her opinion on how the quality of interns has steadily declined for 3ish years. Deal flow aside, does anyone else think banks might be struggling to identify (or at least offer) the best quality candidates in time when anyone can make their resume and experiences appear perfectly tailored with AI. Not to mention how the majority of SA spots are taken by DEI programs and nepotism before the formal application process kicks off. We live in an imperfect system, but maybe banks are simply re-evaluating how they build out their junior classes.
I saw Guggenheim is hiring for LA & NYC which contradicts the assumption they’re simply over staffed. Maybe it’s a ghost offering, but I hope you enjoyed my Ted talk.
Well DEI is dying with the advent of Trump (and many diversity SA internships are axed and SEO and other diversity programs are losing power) and nepotism brings benefits to the firm via new connections, driving deals. I predict the next three years will have better interns.
It's because of how early we recruit now. Ppl just dick around for 2 years after extremely intense grinding to get the offer. It is hard to pick up the intensitiy again outside of a few select hardos. Also the recruiting process has been figured out, and people have gamed it to perfection. The actual job is very different than the recruiting process.
interns get dumber and whinier each year. AI is rotting these kids brains
Haven’t IB fees been up in 2025 vs 2024? Doesn’t make sense that lack of deal flow is the factor. Maybe over-optimism.
Also, echoing the above that a 70-80% offer rate does not constitute “carnage”. People anchor too much to the 2020-2022 COVID era when as long as an intern showed up and had a pulse they received an offer. That’s more of an aberration than the norm in this industry unfortunately.
Unfortunately? Dont you want to work with equally skilled and well-prepared peers when hitting the desk? This is not charity, its natural, that not everyone gets an offer.
Gugg Intern with a return offer here. I wouldn’t call it carnage by any means. Just notably lower than last year. I do know of some people that grinded very hard this summer and did not receive offers. Believe it has something to do with the consolidation of coverage groups resulting in lower need for generalists.
80%+ is simply not accurate. Across multiple groups, return rates were closer to ~60%, with some groups well below that. This isn’t hearsay, it’s coming straight from people in the mix.
It’s fine to defend the firm if you had / are having a good experience, but let’s not rewrite the numbers. The reality is, even strong interns with solid feedback were cut, and the bar shifted in ways that had nothing to do with competence or work ethic. Sugarcoating it helps no one, especially those trying to get a read on what the market is actually like right now
For what it's worth, when I Interned pre-covid in 2019 at a BB, anecdotally a number of BB's extended low return offers, I think JPM was ~50%. Don't think it's a new concept of not offering everyone a return back or even a majority
To be fair this was well known at the time and people would make decisions partially based on return offers given. If you look at some of the 2016/17 threads at least there were people debating whether to take JPM or say BofA, as the former had terrible return rates and they didn’t think they could hack it - or just wanted the security of having AN offer as back up and then try again. Not sure how many of these interns had options to go elsewhere but that is a bit of a kick in the nuts / bad luck if everywhere else is still a total walk in the park
cowen was 50% across the board
wow you think they will rerecruit or due to lack of deal flow
know some groups are re recruiting, others not sure. bank is in shambles internally and has reflected tha through materially lower bonuses relative to prior years
Also an SA at TD Cowen that got cut. Not sure about your experience, but I felt the firm was very political and gave inadequate feedback. They took 2/3 interns in my group (1 of which was extremely sped but they still asked her back). And the HR team was a complete joke.
rip gugg
What groups at TD Cowen had the worst return rates?
worst was healthcare - all others were in the 50-60% range
As another data point, I’d been interviewing at Gugg for a lateral but looks like that process got paused
Capital Markets. Process was going well then just dropped off. Not sure what happened.
Gugg just posted hiring positions for MBA associates so seems like it was more a performance issue than a headcount issue
That’s for next summer class, not ft 2026 which is what would replace the current cuts. Regardless ghost job postings are also a thing. Such a reduction in offers seems more indicative of the market than a firm recruiting more unqualified talent than usual. But to that point standards also may have changed and needed to be more cut throat. Since it’s typically yours to lose def sounds like something is up
I guess we’ll continue to see what happens at other firms
Gugg simply went from giving out near 100% offers, to you actually had to be competent and show potential to be a good analyst to get an offer.
Working hard and being responsive and have good attitude are table stakes.
COVID period really changed perceptions of what it takes to earn a return offer.
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