Tired of H1B - Indian American
I’m Indian American / was born in Boston with parents who were also born in America, and am honestly super sick of the H1B nonsense. The first major wave of immigration from South & East Asia from the 1950s - 90s was genuinely high skilled and selected for intelligent, hardworking immigrants. Now, it’s gone pretty off the rails and it’s disheartening to see. The majority of H1Bs form ethnic enclaves and get bad reps as a result, which is super frustrating. H1B should absolutely be capped at a much lower total volume and select for intelligent, educated people instead of the mess we have now. I love America and don’t want it to change. Expecting to get the usual racist comments below whenever India is mentioned but oh well.
It's a lottery system, so intelligent people get kicked out all the time.
And it also incentivizes a lot of fraudulent folks and scammers to get the visas through multiple entries (until very recently) or some other unethical/even illegal tactics - which, again, is not pursued by intelligent risk-averse people.
I agree. Also, since you mentioned racism at the bottom of your post, let me say that the racism is not towards Indian Americans. I have plenty of Indian American friends from college and the group is very well represented in finance.
Indians from India (h1b) on the other hand are a very different group. Not saying the racism is ok, but providing a distinction.
yeah i dont think you can really make the racism argument when there are indian americans at the top of every bank, pe firm, hedge fund, etc. unfortunate reality is that the only people who face real discrimination in finance are women and traditional minorities (AA, hispanic), which is why dei programs existed in the first place
Total BS. Most indians at the top got hired in 80-90s in an era when their white bosses mostly cared about hardwork than virtue signalling. Since early 2010s, half of the seats are reserved for DEI which as per audit reports is women, black and hispanics men and LGBTQ. Asian / Arab / Brown men are not part of any DEI streams. In past, once all seats were filled with preferred white men, rest were open competition and often Brown / Asian kids got them. But now 50% of seats in hiring and promotions are not available, they are earmarked for the DEI crowd indicated above. In fact, gender DEI is easiest way for white bosses to push out competition for their favorites. The current world view of white bosses is top leadership should be white and few PoC (nearly all women).
Whats unfortunate is if you're one of the "good" ones as the amount of undesirable ones come in you increasingly get lumped in with them too
I’m conservative and I’ve hired Indian Americans, Chinese Americans, Korean Americans, etc. Children of immigrants are fantastic - hard working and America first (which is what we all want!). The negative perception is towards the current wave of non-American H1B workers. Don’t sweat it.
Indian Americans are great. I’ve noticed that the ethnic nepotism and in group preferences are common only among Asians (all types) who were born and raised in Asia.
As they say, Indians are crabs in a basket
Good job Ravi. Keep sucking up and your time will come. Oh wait, born in US or not, you will always be a Pajeet to white conservative.
The abuse of H1B is primarily by Tech companies for cheap labor. Bankers on H1B are few and far between. Those ethnic enclaves are only possible as spots in tech are multiple times more than high finance.
So easy to hide small dick energy behind an anonymous username on this forum.
Only a certified 304 would say this. Go deliver hawk Tuah to MD Daddy and yell DEI ftw when you swallow that bonus.
.
Funny thing about this post is how it doesn’t dig into how non-integrated / ethnic OPs initial family members entering the US were. No different than Irish, Italian or even whatever German / English tribe the people in Missouri or Kentucky might have been. Give a generation or two - whether it’s Indian, Somalian or Cuban - they’ll get integrated. Look at Marco Rubio or Obama for more recent examples. Or you can even get Vivek R or the FBI guy type.
“He put on a red white and blue outfit, that means he’s just as American as the people on the mayflower!”
No
Agree but disagree as well.
All of those groups assimulated except for their religions. If your family was Irish or Italian, good chance that you're still Roman Catholic even several generations later. And that's fine no big deal.
Problem is when your religion is from the backwoods of Afghanistan. No matter how well you learn the English language etc. you're still going to believe in a worldview radically separate from your neighbors and not a small difference like Protestants vs Catholics. Cultures assimulate well. Religions do not.
Would also note Indian-Americans integrate very well on religious grounds as I've never known any Indians who are super hardcore about Hinduism in the first place.
EDIT: So will the wave of Venezuelans Americanize within a generation? Absolutely. Muslims from Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Somalia...not so much.
Del
Gotta love the punching down here
“ABC group is fine, but XYZ isn’t because of this reason I just pulled out of my ass and applied to the entire group”
Very empirical
Considering the many wars of Europe fought over which Christian religion was true, I believe your comment to be inaccurate.
If you honestly think Somali people are integrating you are delusional beyond belief.
Tech - yes. IB - never seen an H1B hire from India, most come from UK/EU satellite offices. So not sure what you are talking about here.
You have a cap of 85k H-1B visas a year, in a country of 350 million people.
This is the definition of missing the forest for the trees, and I think it’s because it’s become some boogeyman all-encompassing term for general fear of immigration. Sure, there’s probably some abuse of the H-1B system, but it is immaterial in the grand scheme of things. Your bigger problem is illegal immigration. Energy should be heavily directed towards sorting that out first, before worrying about a minuscule volume of H-1B migrants.
Yeah this is the ultimate definition of a virtual non-issue. There are a total of ~730k H1B holders in the U.S. compared to an adult non-senior population (18-65) of ~250ml. That is 0.2% of the adults who can work, absolutely miniscule
The FAR bigger issue is outsourcing, particularly in tech. H1Bs do exist in finance but at a tiny scale compared to Tech. The issue is that Tech companies outsource all of these jobs to EM countries, if even a quarter of those jobs came back to the U.S. you wouldn't have anywhere near as much competition for jobs and H1B-driven competition would not even be on anyone's radar. Sadly outsourcing trend will continue, barring regulations
100%
Dude most of them are exceptionally intelligent and honestly way better than general population. Yes there are very concrete issues but a lot of the criticism stems from deep rooted racism. I know as an Indian American, it’s very tempting to want to distance yourself from this but ultimately don’t put down your own people to impress others and I promise it will bite you down the line. Look at the way Vivek was just disposed lol.
Anybody who has gone to a school with high-volume corporate recruiting has seen the nonsense that goes on
Tons and tons of internationals on OPT taking entry-level career building roles that don't require special skills, while American grads go empty handed
I helped an American grad of my M7 MBA who had been unemployed for a full year post grad get a job at my company. Same title as he had pre-MBA (and he had 4 years of pre-MBA experience at a name-brand company you've all heard of).
Its not racism to say this shouldn't be happening
There must be something wrong with that guy if he couldn't land a gig for a year from an M7 MBA when other internationals who clearly have different hurdles to go through are able to. Not sure why the government should raise standards for internationals that already have it tough and lower for americans who already have it easy just to ensure that american jobs are for americans. Companies at the end care about max productivity at low costs. Try to check this criteria instead of whining
i obviously know him, theres nothing wrong with him, he just got unlucky in a very tough job market
companies do not actually have to try to hire an American first, so they just default to hiring everyone who worked at Bain India before taking Americans with less prestigious experience
As I said in another post, you’ve got 85k H-1Bs a year.
A % of those are *returning* H-1Bs. That is to say, they’re already here and they’re just getting a new H-1B visa.
A further % of those are people with multiple years of experience.
A small remainder are people with little-to-no experience, which are the ones you’re referring to. I’ve done work in this space and we’ve previously estimated it to be between 7-12k.
Now keep in mind that only a % of that 7-12k is going to be applying for the same corporate role as you.
In a country of 350 million, if you’re claiming that a fraction of 7k people is preventing you from getting a role post-graduation, you need to do some introspection. It’s just not true.
For the record, I am very much in favour of extensive reductions in immigration across the board. But I also just don’t like weakness, and anyone complaining that H-1Bs are the reason they’re not landing their MBA Associate role is just weak.
theres literally 0 cap on OPT which lasts for 3 years (every school including MBAs has changed their program to make it "STEM" to qualify for the 3 years)
OPT doesn't pay FICA taxes, so the employer gets a 15% tax break on every OPT hire (half from the employee but the company can just lower the salaries for these jobs to capture the surplus)
OPT is also targeted specifically to fresh college/masters hires.
So we have an unlimited number of visas for anyone with a "STEM" degree, with a 15% tax discount to the employer
you're crazy if you think that isn't driving higher unemployment rates for new grads
Don't get me wrong, I find many FOBs just as annoying as you do, but when they come for the "jeets" our American accents aren't gonna save us
I also find it odd that H1B Indians live rent-free in the heads of people here on WSO; it's not like they're that big of a presence in the industry. If this was a tech forum, sure, but all of this is so obviously astroturfed
Out of curiosity, why do you find them annoying?
inb4 insert "you've clearly internalized white supremacy and are self-hating" leftist talking point
This is 100% accurate, couldn't say it better myself
OP no matter how much you try to 'join in' and hate yourself & those like you, you will never be considered one of them. Just look at Vivek Ramaswamy, who 1) is a massive capitalist, 2) is very successful in the business sphere, 3) wrote actual BOOKS deriding DEI, and 4) went full MAGA. The same guy was attacked relentlessly with racist abuse
At the end of the day, the white supremacists you are seeking approval from (while destroying your own soul & self esteem in an attempt to fit in) will never truly accept you. It's sad to see this
bro vivek made his $ in a scam, and people were willing to overlook that until he said American culture was stupid because of sleep overs. That's not assimilating. That's saying the host nation culture is dumb, which is what ticked people off.
it's also incredibly wrong because at a top down level, "sleep over" societies are more productive than test grinding cultures.
I get not wanting the existing culture that works to change to something worse.
Zero connection with Indians or Asian heritage here but this’s embarrassing. Discrediting your own people who went through countless hurdles to get a job in the US, just for the sake of getting reps from a bunch of narrow minded rednecks who will always stay on the losing side of history.
Problem is the need for international talent was a lot higher when our population was 200 million and our GDP growth was 7%. These days with our population at 350m and GDP growth at 3%, the value add of foreign talent is highly questionable.
There's this narrative that we're stealing the world's best scientists and engineers to build something here that would otherwise be built overseas . . but what we're really doing is replacing the $200k American with a foreigner who will do the same work (not better, just the same) for $100k while the taxpayer picks up the bill for the displaced American worker.
Most programs run their course and H1B is no exception.
Yeah OP’s transparent attempts to win approval from a bunch of mostly unsuccessful sad rednecks is so pathetic
OP in their eyes you are not American, and you never will be. Your accent and knowing American culture and having white friends doesn’t matter. They will always find a way to bash you
Wake up dude, Jesus. You don’t have to love H1B or even support mass immigration. But making a post to bash on it to try and fit in is ludicrously pathetic
dont redeem it
sorry, meant to say "Don redimut"
Vhut do you mean
The old "pull up the ladder after you" trick. Nice!
Do you have a single shred of evidence that immigrants used to be more skilled or educated than they are now?
Can you read? Did op say they were taking finance jobs?
Also wdym trying to fit in with broccoli hair cuts and a fake frat accent lmfao. I didnt know that certain people were born with a frat accent and broccoli hair cuts. Trying to bash people (that were born in america) for getting a certain haircut and speaking without the accent of an international is very weird.
Do you not see this is a finance forum? have you also never heard of insecured teenagers and college kids trying to emulate popular edgy styles (certain haircuts) trying to fit in?
OP this is exactly the type of racist you are trying to pander to and will never win approval from. His own hatred will destroy him, don’t try to join in and tie yourself to the same anchor
hahaha spot on
they're from boston it explains everything. imagine growing up in boston and wanting to be a transplant finance person. i'd be very surprised if they don't work at solomon brothers or something.
Blame the democrats who wanted to shift the system from merit to what we have now.
USA is still better off than Canada. There are areas of Canada like Brampton Mississaga that look like Patiala/Jhalandar gullies. Sikh uncles just sitting there like pigeons on a power line. I think Canada is a Punjabi ghetto.
Respectfully, who cares about Canada? Many parts of the U.S and other western countries were ghettos with other ethnic groups before Indians started to get targeted. I wonder which group will be scrutinized 10-15 years from now.
punjabi truck "drivers" without legit licenses. There is some claim adjuster guy on an excel somewhere in insurance companies across the Anglosphere discussing how the famous turban people are disrupting the industry.
It’s probably not even the real issue in finance. As many pointed out, there are not “that” many with H-1B to start with in finance relative to tech. Indian IT companies like Infosys, Cognizant are the ones abusing H-1B systems that led to a poor reputations
I love how there are a subset of conservatives who are extremely pro merit in the workplace until they have to compete with someone on an H1B.
The H1B system is a lottery today - that’s stupid. It should be merit driven so we have the best people in the country adding value. It would be stupid and ridiculous to have no path for internationals to work in high finance when we know they’re accretive long term. How do you think Coatue / Viking were founded?
We need to get rid of useless programs like the diversity greencard program and the refugee program and focus entirely on a points-based system. What do we need? AI talent, plumbers, electricians, doctors, scientists, etc. Those are the folks that should be given massive priority. Stop messing around, quantify how much we need of each, and have an immigration pipeline for those and no one else
We are headed towards a dark and cold universe, and you idiots are race baiting. We need a billion Americans and yes that means more immigration. Poorly integrated areas should be allowed to fail and vice versa. There's room for white-majority communities in Alabama AND hugely diverse neighborhoods in NYC/LA/SF/CHI.
Sorry to @OP but there will always be people who hate you -- if not for the color of your skin, or place of ethnic heritage, for another reason such as your favorite sports team, the car you drive, etc. While I don't wish to demean racism, what matters in your experience is how you deal with it. Best of luck.
Let me question your premise here, do we really need a billion Americans or even 500ml? AI and Automation can eventually automate away large swaths of blue & white collar jobs over time. I agree that today these technologies are still in early days, but in 30yrs I have little doubt that much of this will happen. That's only 1-2 generations away, in that case we will be cursing ourselves for having so many more unproductive people to support
I agree to get there, we need to have the right talent but that's on the order of millions of more people added via immigration over the next decade (not tens or hundreds of millions), mostly sourced from India / China / Europe (if we are looking at where that specific talent is and will be over the next 10yrs)
(1) Very little of the tasks medieval peasants were doing have evolved into the tasks that we do today. Technological changes break the old paradigm and create new types of tasks. Similarly, very few of the tasks we do today are tasks we will be doing as an intergalactic species…
(2) human civilization has been around for 10-12k years. You think we peaked now? White skin color became dominant through Europe barely 3-3.3k years ago… after Egypt built the Giza pyramids. Every region is dominated by genes that 1-2k years ago was significantly far away — the human story is one of migration.
(3) a unique trait among humans (but not just humans, some other animals have this ability too) is that we can accelerate evolution through the learning of strategies and adoption of tools. This drives the human ingenuity flywheel — the more people you have interacting the faster the creation of new strategies and tools. An increase in population density is correlated with an increase in productivity.
(4) the largest and most successful human empires stretched across many regions and populations (Roman empire, Persian empire, etc.) and controlled 25-45% of global population (~2-4bn people in today’s terms). We can too. I'm not saying we need a billion immigrants today but that we should have a very pro-immigration stance -- something like 1-2% inflow per year seems doable (3-6mn per year). It makes sense to prioritize for jobs we need (e.g. doctors, nurses, etc.), but "talent" as a cutoff is a dumb idea. The vast, vast majority of people can be trained/taught to do almost anything. "genius" is spontaneous and is a byproduct of agglomeration.
In short, ai/automation/etc. if real will only spur the creation of new tasks. Regions with greater population densities will see faster productivity gains and development of better tools and strategies. Human civilization is just getting going, seems dumb to throw in the towel and just live a small life.
Unfortunately, I do not believe the world needs billions of people either. I disliked the conspiracy theories about population reduction, but when one looks at the impact of humankind on the planet...it looks bad. The waste in the ocean from China, the garbage cities of India and Philippines, rampant disease and squalor in overcrowded cities. Imagine the whole world living at US standards...lifetime phones = 8 phones * 10 billion = 80 billion phones, one consumer item.
Never gonna happen. Feel free to reverse immigrate back to Kenya though!
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