UBS to actually RESCIND offers
I know UBS has gotten a rather bad rap on this site, and rightfully so. As many of you have heard, they deferred a good majority of thier 2009 FT class. I talked to my buddy, an associate at UBS here in NY, and apparantly, they will be rescinding some U.S. FT IBD offers in the next couple of months. Hopefully this is just a rumor to all of you wanting to get into IBD, but I figured I'd give people a heads up.
As if the deferrals weren't a big enough sign... i guess the rumors were right...
I know a guy who just actually got a call from UBS and said that they decided to ask him to join the board in Jan 2010 rather than this summer. So I guess this is not rumor at all.
I have at least a dozen of friends working in UBS (Stamford, HK ...) got laid off recently.
Wow, that's a bunch. Two friends of mine that I went to school with got asked not to stay for their second year (essentially the same thing as being fired), but at least UBS paid them their bonus (or lack thereof) prior to canning them.
My advice to those holding UBS offers...find a new job ASAP
Credit Suisse is also deferring people. I have a friend who got an FT job with Credit Suisse and he got a call offering him $40,000 to take the year off. He and others were told that if they accepted the $40,000 and took the year off they would be guaranteed a job after that year, whereas if they started working immediately they might not still be employed in a year. He indicated that they seemed to be applying some pressure to get people to defer.
That is completely untrue regarding the CS deferrals. In fact, CS had to put a cap on the number of people deferring, as there was so much interest. No pressure whatsoever was put on analysts who did not defer to change their minds. The company did the same thing back in 2001-2002 time frame and there was no difference in attrition rate between the kids who took a year off vs. the ones who stayed.
Personally, I'd wait and take $40k to travel around the world for a year. What's the harm? That said, those who want to work are not going to get canned for choosing to actually earn their money for that year.
The harm is having this
on your resume instead of an actual job.
I personally think that experience sounds cool, "travelling in South Antarctica for a year", haha
There is another thread on this site where this has been hashed out in some detail.
I am an associate starting this year FT and got my start date pushed back to Sept 14th. Just a 1 month push back and the letter I received said they are honoring all associate offers.
Not sure where these rumors come from but they aren't accurate if they are in regards to IBD NYC.
which site and which dept?
IBD NYC (coverage group) Associate level
HR confirmed that NO offers will be rescinded for FT starting associates in IBD (class size of 35 from pool of 65 summer associates).
the "rumors" sound unreliable and unclear.... unless they're referring strictly to analysts
Yes, I was referring to solely the analyst class. Personally, I don't think the analysts are going to get their offers pulled before they start, I think it will happen within the first 6 months. UBS hired nearly 80% of thier SA class, as all of you know they have the highest SA offer rate on the street.
Either way, its like they say, "There's some truth to every rumor.." Wish everyone luck
That makes more sense because they wouldn't have made all of this communication with the associates lately if it was all BS.
I wouldn't be shocked by layoffs after we start (within the first 6 months or so) but I also think things are getting better with regards to fees in IBD so I think the business will get stronger every month.
Guys, are you keeping your options open at this point? I don't know whether it would be a good idea to line up some back up interviews and keep my ear to the ground job wise? Are they rescinding because of the foreign work force and TARP? Or because the outlook is gloomy?
Lol UBS did not take TARP money. They are a SWISS (referring to the country) bank. TARP was for US banks. Hope you don't say shit like that at in interview
UBS got TARP money?
lol
I have a FT analyst offer from a top MM bank (think Jefferies, Piper Jaffray, Evercore, Thomas Weisel, etc.), and I was told I might be deferred (or even possibly rescinded). The HR person didn't provide any information on potential compensation yet. I'm really not sure what I'll do if I get deferred since I don't have anything lined up and I was just notified only about a month before training was set to start. I'll know for sure next week apparently.
even in MM banks?
piper, twp are top MM banks? even jefferies doesnt belong in the same sentence with evercore...
yeah situation sucks. some ubs ibd offices got deferred till july 1st 2010 with 15k.
CS much better with 40k.....
UBS deferred some in 2008 but offered 40k + 10K sign for the year. Much better than what they are now sticking people with. Holding a deferral is better than nothing though. Might as well take the free option.
Dude what the fuck are you talking about?
I can actually confirm this. I know someone who took 40k for a 1-year deferral.
if you reneg on the deferral offer 1 year later (ex: found a better job), will you still get to keep the sign-on bonus and 15k from the deferral program?
you're suppose to give back the sign-on bonus if you quit within a year, but technically it's ubs that broke the original contract first.
what do you guys think? anyone here had to deal with giving back sign-on/relocation bonus?
What does the contract explicitly state? if it says "within one year of STARTING DATE", then you'll have to pay it back.
Do you know anyone that has undergone the 'repayment' process under anything remotely close to this situation? I'm willing to bet that there may be some leeway considering it's cheaper to let you go.
Bump.
15k sign on + 15k deferral = 30k that needs to be repaid if you find a new job. what will ubs do if you don't repay?
I would suggest you call HR and ask them what UBS's position would be. They have to know the tough situation they are putting you guys in, and therefore should have a position on this. Considering the low offer for the deferral they may actually be looking for some of you to move elsewhere. Let us know what you find out.
Someone I know in risk got her offer rescinded two weeks ago, she was supposed to start in January.
Also if you go into UBS's experienced hire job listing they have entry level IBD analyst openings for the graduate two year program, which is weird if they deferred so many people and still are hiring??
And UBS are sending out their 15K payments now, so I would assume if they were to rescind offers they would do it before they pay you, I mean why go through the hassle of paying then rescinding and making us pay back...as I am a differed.
Did UBS rescind FT offers? (Originally Posted: 10/03/2012)
Someone on this thread (//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/UBS-voyager-program-2012) claimed that UBS rescinded some of the FT offers.
Does any insider on here have any info on that? It'd be good info to know, especially for those of us who are applying for summer 2013 SA positions.
It's happened before along with deferred associate offers to post-MBA students.
It's generally best to just stay away from UBS.
this.
Yes-- reducing headcount meant some had offers rescinded.
UBS still hasn't officially extended all of their FT offers to many SAs they gave verbal offers to in August, anyone have any insights into this?
UBS did give out verbal offers and gave out hard offers in early September. From my knowledge gathered from pool of 7 or so summer associates and 5 summer analysts, UBS has not rescind any offers. And no, reducing head count does not necessarily mean rescinding offers.
Is UBS rescinding offers now? (Originally Posted: 04/15/2009)
In the following dealbreaker post, a couple of the commenters said that UBS has begun making calls to the full-time class and rescinding some offers...has anyone heard anything similar, whether on the inside or part of the full-time class?
http://dealbreaker.com/2009/04/layoffs-watch-09-ubs-2.php
I'm at UBS now, I heard this rumor and quickly called a few people... no one I know either inside or outside of the bank has heard anything of this. I think it is just speculation. The start date for the new classes has not been set in stone yet but thats all from what I understand. I could be wrong, nothing is concrete. If this affects you then I would be on the phone with HR to see whats up.
I would be pissin' my pants if i had an offer there.
I'd punch myself in the face if I went to a college like Wake Forest, lol.
And I'd probably shoot myself if I worked for a joke of a bank like UBS.
what about internship class of 2009?
as far as i know, interns are relatively safe.
interns are safe... summer associates had their internship cut short by 2 weeks to be 8 weeks long. so thats should be the only modification they see.
Interns are safe...they will just be a lot more selective in the number of offers that are handed out at the end of the summer...
ok, back to the original point of starting this thread...has ANYONE heard anything regarding UBS pulling full-time offers?
chelsea.... so good for you that you got an offer from MS... you're still just going to be some grunt analyst making nothing.
lol
Can anyone provide clarity on the aforementioned post? Thanks.
-BST
.....
There is no way they are going to rescind offers now. They have already given us our sign-on bonuses. However, I spoke with HR today and they told me that "All options are on the table" and would be in touch with me in the next week or two. I think that means that they are considering giving us the same deferral option that CS is (half salary for taking a year off).
Comment #30 on Dealbreaker article "Layoffs Watch '09: Tears at UBS":
"I just saw an internal email to staffers saying that the incoming classes will be trimmed back one way or another. they are weighing options to cut offers and they are weighing options like a deferral program."
http://dealbreaker.com/2009/04/layoffs-watch-09-tears-at-ubs.php
Can anyone confirm or deny the existence of this "internal email"? Anyone?
.
the deferral program with pay sounds pretty good right now
Check out the career mentoring website Gotta Mentor... it has a huge library of advice and people to meet! www.gottamentor.com
What does gotta mentor have to do with this thread?
Agree. That site is not very well formatted and it is not very helpful to just spam any post you can with a link
bump
bump
No news is good news. And if you're an incoming associate I wouldn't worry too much- pretty thin class as is from what I've heard.
...
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They're pushing the start date back by only 2-3 weeks as a result of shortening the NYC training program. Other banks have also cut down the training program. I honestly wouldn't worry too much and enjoy your last qtr/semester at bschool.
We SHOULD be hearing SOMETHING by next week (HR quote: "we will communicate something to you guys before the end of April")
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
ht.
It's kind of ironic how UBS and CS have completely switched positions.
Q1 results: UBS: $-2billion CS: $+2billion
CS also has a larger marketcap.
Anyone think this switch will be permanent? Funny how a couple of years ago CS was the ugly stepchild of Swiss banking compared to UBS.
.
Can someone also tell me if, given the fact that it was rainy the day before, and sunny today, whether it will be sunny permanently?
haha - no offence, ibh, but finance is too volatile to make predictions about "permanency" - especially in this climate.
UBS is going through a big round of layoffs (maybe today). When the dust settles they'll let the new classes know.
i didn't see anything on dealbreaker
UBS healthcare has been ripping shit up lately. I see their associates working some ridiculous hours... I know they don't have any mega deals going on - wtf are they doing over there? Any chance of cuts on the associate level?
^^ UBS - Healthcare is always ripping shit up.
W
It's funny the guy who interviewed me at UBS is not working no more.
Start dates have been deferred until October in many cases...bad news for those trying to pay of student loans...good news for those who want to party longer
Big Unit
They had layoffs in IBD today. I've heard that its been between 5 to 10 percent in each group from the people I've talked to.
Some first year associates were let go and I know a few third years who were cut.
Incoming summers from '08 that I'm friends with have informed me they aren't starting until after the summer is over. They are in IBD, all NYC. All from target (knew them when I was at school a couple of years ago).
Keep in mind this is a sample size of 3.
Analyst/Associate start date has been pushed back from July to September (2 months).
...///
Wingman, the start date IS being pushed back to "sometime in September"...it is all but official at this point.
,
Wingman - I would recommend making plans for the summer. I have.
What do you mean?
UBS : still top notch. No more grunch !
Dan
Proprietary Finance Ventures
I think he means make plans to do something fun this summer instead of starting a job. Since the job will start at the end of the summer (after labor day).
I mean that I believe that both Analyst and Associate classes will be pushed back until sometime in September
ok, wingman...again...start date in September, and we will get to our groups in October (to start actual work).
....
[quote=rightplacewrongtime]In the following dealbreaker post, a couple of the commenters said that UBS has begun making calls to the full-time class and rescinding some offers...has anyone heard anything similar, whether on the inside or part of the full-time class?
http://dealbreaker.com/2009/04/layoffs-watch-09-ubs-2.php[/quote]
I haven't heard anything from UBSers that I know or colleagues starting in '09. I did hear that the start date would be pushed back.
!
You ought to give them a call and let us know what they say.
*
?
Yep. It's HR we are talking about here.
Nothing over here either. I think they can't be bothered any more with us. Probably worried about their own jobs.
Just my 2c.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
A lot of people have the problem of too much annoying contact with HR...I guess its a good problem to have these days...sign of the times
HR is pretty homogeneous in every bank. Well, HR I've spoken to seemed to me to have come out of same the toilet. I doubt UBS itself is that bad and when this economy turns around, considering their US IBD doesn't get crushed, you'll be one of the few assocs there facing a lot of opportunity. Imo a very enviable position to be in.
Just my 2c.
.
UBS just called...
what did they say?
and...? Don't leave us hanging! =)
Sorry guys.
Offers rescinded?
If that's the case, sorry guys. Bad timing. But if you were good enough to get it the first time around, you can always do it again.
....... rescinded?
?
Yeah i think we should stop speculating.
I'm not sure what to make of the lack of UBS people posting right now.
.
Guess previous poster about "bad news" could be flame.
.
?
I haven't heard anything either. I know of at least 3 classmates that also haven't heard a peep
yo
Sorry to interrupt your intense conversation here, but WTF can HR be busy with? I am surprised they treat their future associates like that.
Dude with all the layoffs going on, it involves a ton of paperwork, a ton of emails back and forth, in IB terms "lot on the pipeline". Plus they are worried about their own jobs, which means....they could care less about you.
some international office analysts are forced to take a delay until sometime in 2010. NOT an optional deferral like CS
/
PMed you
Unusually Big Suckers called... they said due to wingman's endless worrying his offer is in danger, everyone else is fine.
Sorry guys... too much of a temptation not to.. My buddies haven't heard anything either. I won't cry wolf again, I swear it.
^
.... ha.
Not sure how your fellow first-years will feel about this.
good one
Alright bitches, I have tried to not be too much a smart ass on this but I can't help it anymore.
Look, your jobs are safe. Maybe you'll get deferred or something, but most likely not unless you just accept some optional deferral. So just chill the fuck out and relax. You have a job. You are entering this market at the point where it is over-fired (like 2003) and you're going to be fine.
Think about it, if I'm wrong, and this market isn't close to bottom then we are all in way deeper shit than if your offer gets pulled. If I'm right, then you have a chance to come in at the bottom, get on some cool transactions when the market heats up and have your pick of exit ops on the back side.
With that said... you don't start work until what, september or something? Jesus Christ... go get fucked up, bang some hookers and be a retard for the next 4 months. Otherwise, you suck and won't make it in banking because you're just too much of a pussy.
I'll probably get banned from this site for this post, but its the best advice you'll get all year.
http://dealbreaker.com/2009/05/ubs-encouraging-incoming-class.php
one year deferral for s&t, not optional. 15k pretax.
if you take ibnutz' advice though, just remember one year (instead of an optional 4 months) of banging hookers never leads to anything good.
the deferral is not an optional for ibd at some locations...
This is so f***ed up, sorry about that guys.
What in God's name are people going to do for a year with 15k pre-tax?
Of course, someone will say find another job....um where?
quick qusetion for anyone who was an incoming S&T at UBS since I am at another bank (you can PM me if you feel uncomfortable answering in public)...
Were you given your signing bonus already? Did you do all your online registering shit (updating profile, etc.)? Did you already take your drug test?
any info would be great-sorry about the year deferral
Yes, we were given our signing bonus. No, we did not do anything online, but they have all of our background information. No, we have not taken a drug test. So all in all, we have gotten 25k before taxes to spend until next July. It kinda sucks, but I am now gonna try and do some pretty crazy shit over the next 12 months.
Anyone want to make a market on how many S&T analyst offers UBS will give out this upcoming recruiting cycle?
bid 80 offer 85
You could always teach english in korea. Work as a part-time Sat tutor etc. or something. It's not too hard either to get offers to work as a host boy for rich Korean women if u want as well. I remember thinking it would be a pretty entertaining job to do if I needed some extra cash while taking a vacation there. Apparently the hours are as bad as IBD though if a specific woman decides to "retain" you, LOL.
Start date pushed back to September 14th no compensation. Part of incoming class pushed back until February 15k pretax.
This is exactly right. It would suck to be deferred though.
.
.....
did anyone (analyst or associate) in nyc get the deferral?
almost all of the analysts in hk got it. and there were no associates hired in hk
A portion of analysts in New York got the deferred until February 1st, 2010, 15k pretax compensation...
I think what he meant was that it's 15k compensation + 10k sign on. So it's 25k for both IBD and S&T. But I wouldn't be surprised if they would prorate the IBD comp.
Just my 2c.
I am in NYC and I got differed to July 2010. Yeah its 15k + your 10k signing. But it sucks. Everyone in UBS is getting deferred, no offers has been rescinded to my knowledge. What the heck are they doing next year not hire anyone for 2010. They can't keep on deferring? Right?
Are you in IBD? All I have heard is September 09 start date, or deferral until February 2010...not sure how July 2010 is in their...
starting at a BB this summer FT. is there anyway i can ask them to defer me?
sure, it will just be an indefinite deferral
Is this S&T only or all FT?
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