What do you actually learn/ gain from investment banking?
I have had conversations with numerous people from upper level buyside that claim they learned nothing from banking. When I say nothing, I mean nothing in terms of actually understanding how businesses work/ operate. They of course mention that the hard work builds character and teaches you how to push through rough situations later on.
I personally have no bias towards banking and think it seems like a pretty great career path that can launch you into some of the best positions in business, but I am curious if anyone in banking agrees with these statements? Outside of modeling and the ability to jump into PE/ HF, what do you gain from banking?
Rare occasion where someone will directly answer your question. Reposted from another thread where I reposted, but I think covers what you want to know:
Reposting from another thread where I laid out the PE/ IB debate. It should answer your questions although it was more targeted. In short, there are very few PE roles where you gain execution experience and IB is pure execution. IB analyst roles often lead to you being a better investor in the long run. I've done both and knowing what I know now, I am incredibly glad I did IB. I think starting in PE is a mistake actually anywhere you go if you have a long term view of your career.
The PE versus IB debate is an interesting one. The truth is college kids don't know what they want to do and it's really hard to say what is actually better for your future. I think the actual answer is it doesn't really matter contrary to what prospects and others will say, with both having pretty solid pros and cons. Also, both likely can lead to the same path down the line. Most the Megafund PE analysts seem to jump to another Megafund PE firm for associate anyway, or go to a HF. WSO will take this as a prestige debate, but I'm going to tell you some differences in what I learned in IB and PE (although growth) and why despite hating IB I'm actually very glad I did it. My personal take really is it's actually less meaningful than people think, with potentially IB teaching you a skill set that is beneficial the rest of your life and undergrad megafund PE potentially being a quite impressive position that gets you to where you want to be sooner. I don't know if there's an obvious choice and both are great places to be. I think it's more a coin flip than people would think based on the benefits of the skill set you get in IBand the ability of both to get to the same end destination.
Background on me, I did IB at a MM and thought when I recruited I was pretty certain I would do PE or broader investing long term. Some of the advice I received from mentors was IB and PE can often times be similar, but there are subtle differences that can teach different skill sets. I also was told to do mm IBspecifically (again really contrary to this website, so hang on!). Doing IB for a little bit could potentially be helpful for making you a better investor in the long run or just an overall more knowledgeable business professional. I sorta knew I would leave IBwhen I did it, but I was surprised by how much I hated my time in IB. There was less critical thinking, more abuse, less interesting work, worse people, and tons of people who just completely lost sight of the bigger picture. That said, There are a few things I learned that were really important:
Now at a megafund pe job, you likely would learn most these. However, a huge part of investing is the 80/20 rule and further most the time in investing your role is looking at potential investments and saying, "yeah, this one isn't for us". So it's very possible to go to a private equity firm and spend a great deal of time not seeing the process of a company getting bought or sold. People refer to this as deal execution. IB your job is literally deal execution, so you will get more reps seeing processes than you would at a private equity firm, the con is you don't evaluate opportunities in IB and are always trying to frame a company as great when many aren't. Further, the reason I say I am glad I did IB is I know how to raise capital and market a business-you wouldn't learn this at a private equity firm outside of hearing from an investment bank that is helping you sell a portfolio company or participating in a process, which isn't the same thing. I have assisted numerous early stage and growth companies in creating materials and preparing them for series A, B, and C raises and it's a skillset that I learned from banking. Had I done PE, I wouldn't have this skill set and really wouldn't know how to prep materials or provide advice on a process like an ex-banker would. Ultimately understanding how to fundraise and market a company as well as deception used by banks to make companies look better than they are is a skill set that is invaluable for 1) running/working for a growing company (entrepreneurship, startup work etc.) 2) assisting growing companies (VC, growth equity) 3) to some degree understanding the deception used can be helpful for evaluating opportunities (large-cap PE, other types of private investing).
Now PE will help you be a better critical thinker when IB actively discourages critical thinking. That said, in IB you can look at each deal you are on and think critically about whether you think a company is worth what a buyer is paying for it and what you would pay.
Finally, something that also is very relevant: your first year on the job, you are very useless anywhere and likely won't really learn about an industry. Notice how some of the biggest skills I listed were outlook/ excel/ ppt proficiency? The truth is no matter how smart a person is, out of undergrad they just need reps writing emails and doing tasks to become effective in a working environment. This takes time, and really makes the first 6 months of a job in any IB firm or PE firm virtually the same.
You know Megafund PE is arguably the most prestigious position an undergrad can get, which provides superb optionality. There's some pros to IB and switching as I listed. IB really does suck though and I think would be a more miserable experience than a megafund PE role. Ultimately both are great options and you can't choose wrong. I think that's the weirdest part about being an adult-for the first time in your life you need to make a decision that will close doors. Up until the end of college, most your decisions just open doors, but post, you start needing to make choices that will close opportunities. My advice, pro con the paths of each, call people who have had to make that decision before and ask them how they handled it, and trust your gut. The one thing I would caution you on-getting advice from people who are ignorant. This thread will likely have 10+ college undergrads saying "megafund PE for sure" without any idea of the pros and cons. Weight knowledgeable peoples opinions heavier than random ignorant peoples views. Good luck!
Edit: the one other thing I would say is to be careful about maximizing optionality above all else. My favorite type of person is the IB-> buyout PE -> HBS person who has no idea what they want to do with their life despite being almost 30 because they have never listened to their heart and pursued "optionality" above all else. Have a spine and take a chance at some point otherwise you will just be a wondering corporate shell continuously using other peoples definition of success to define your own, which from what I see is the best way to be unhappy and unfulfilled.
"My favorite type of person is the IB-> buyout PE -> HBS person who has no idea what they want to do with their life despite being almost 30 because they have never listened to their heart and pursued "optionality" above all else"
this is like everyone on this forum lol
This is actually super helpful, thank you. That is some super valuable insight and that make sense as to why IB can be important for building a skillset used later on in investing. I appreciate that you contributed that post to WSO, definitely a very valuable perspective/ experience.
Another soapbox comment on two things:
Ignore title, current ASO 1 in PE. I’d say I’ve gotten more deal execution so far in PE than my entire 2 years at a low BB. So much of banking for me was just memos and pitching. Didn’t really learn much at all besides how to grind late into the night.
People’s experience can really differ based on their group and bank
If you don't mind me asking, why did your mentors push for MM banking specifically? Was it the growthy aspect, focus on reps, or something else I'm missing?
Why do you have to learn or gain anything? It's a job. You learn how to do your job and you gain a salary. Like every other job. I don't understand why people make banking out to be this pinnacle of learning and enrichment and then get disappointed when it's not... You want to learn and be "intellectually stimulated" so bad, go become an academic.
Who hurt you lol? You do know it is possible to be paid well and find your work intellectually stimulating right?
Yeah well I don't want to.
I agree with the sentiment. Most people in the west don't find any deep intellectual satisfaction from their job. I think that even though you may think corporate finance is dull, it's certainly more stimulating than 90% of other jobs and equally as stimulating as most alternatives.
facts
Valuation and how to build pitchbooks. That's it. Everything else its just pure perspective about what you really did there (corporate Navy SEAL vs. slave) or too generic (valid to other 1000+ jobs).
you learn how to work in excel and make slides. every other answer is a stretch.
you gain money and valuable experience on your CV.
if you wanna learn, better stay in school. if you wanna learn about business, try to start a business.
super underrated skill (trait) that I've taken with me in every aspect of life: the patience and the ability to deal with an immense amount of bullshit from your clients/associates/VPs while pretending to be happy.
also, someone else mentioned in a different thread - the ability to take very vague email instructions / sometimes literally just a scribble on a blank sheet of paper and turn it into a nice looking deck
The real treasure is the friends we made along the way
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