What kind of person should stay in banking?
There’s been quite a bit of discussion on WSO about the objective pros and cons of career’s in PE vs HF vs IB etc. I feel like this is missing the more immediately applicable factor when deciding whether to exit IB or not - what your skill set best aligns with.
As a senior going FT into IB, I wanted to get some perspective from people in the industry about the common personalities/skill sets of great MD’s in IB versus other career paths in finance. What kind of person should build a career in IB? Thanks.
Based on the most helpful WSO content, a career in investment banking (IB) is best suited for individuals with the following traits and skill sets:
Resilience and Work Ethic: Investment banking demands long hours and high-pressure situations. Those who thrive in this environment are resilient, hardworking, and capable of maintaining a strong work ethic even during challenging times.
Strong Interpersonal Skills: Great Managing Directors (MDs) in IB often possess a "salesman's personality." This means they excel at building relationships, managing client expectations, and leading teams effectively. Compatibility, adaptability, and a positive attitude are key traits.
Strategic Thinking: Successful bankers think beyond the immediate task. They understand the broader context of their work, such as the client's strategic objectives and how deals align with those goals. This mindset is crucial for long-term success.
Leadership and Teamwork: Natural leaders who can shape discussions, inspire teams, and think innovatively are highly valued. Leadership roles in organizations or entrepreneurial ventures can be strong indicators of this quality.
Competitiveness and Drive: Many bankers have a Type A personality, characterized by competitiveness and a drive to excel. This is essential for navigating the steep learning curve and advancing in the industry.
Adaptability and Learning Agility: The ability to quickly learn, adapt, and grow in a fast-paced environment is critical. The learning curve in IB is steep, and those who embrace it tend to succeed.
Long-Term Commitment: Building a career in IB requires a willingness to dedicate significant time and energy. Those who enjoy the challenge and find fulfillment in the work are more likely to stay and thrive.
Ultimately, the decision to stay in IB or transition to another path like private equity (PE) or hedge funds (HF) depends on personal preferences and goals. As one WSO thread highlights, "The only race you're running in is your own." If you value the people you work with, the learning opportunities, and the unique challenges of IB, it might be the right fit for you.
Sources: Top 3 Skills Needed for Investment Banking, Q&A: Investment Banking Associate, Personality just doesn't fit I-Banking/Finance? Is there a Finance "type"?, How important is it one come from a rich family and be younger with regard to being hired as an Investment Banker?, Q&A: Senior VP in BB M&A (London)
I started my IB career 100% convinced that I would jump to PE as soon as possible, since everybody else seemingly talked about PE being the "holy land". So I commend you for having the self-awareness to ask this question in the first place.
In my experience, the people who stay in IB do so because they like the sales-y part of the job. That's where you spend more of your time and effort as you get more senior, and it can be very interesting. By "sales-y", though, I don't just mean that the job becomes all phone calls and hand shakes. As an advisor, you're a professional storyteller on behalf of your clients, and you're tasked with selling counterparties on acquisition/investment opportunities. How you craft those stories will require a lot of creativity and critical thinking; to me, that's the most fun and rewarding aspect of the IB career path. You get to be optimistic.
I changed my mind about jumping to PE because it seemed much more analytical and modeling-intensive; not that I necessarily disliked that aspect of the work in IB, but the idea of foregoing most of the other stuff I just mentioned in favor of basing every investment decision on an over-engineered model didn't sound exciting. This might sound like a myopic view of what PE is to those with direct experience, but at the very least, most would agree that the buy-side often requires an almost unhealthy level of skepticism. That just isn't as fun; we'd all rather talk about growth and upside than "What if the global economy collapses tomorrow and the only acceptable universal currency is topographically protected real estate with self-sustaining access to clean drinking water? Has your forecast properly accounted for that?"
Very helpful thank you
Lmao very helpful? You’re getting perspective from a guy who never worked in PE and reducing it to being an optimist vs. a pessimist.
From someone who did both IB and PE, plainly IB is for people who like to follow orders and listen to their clients. IB is a resource for a seller or buyer to process a transaction, you’re not a salesman coming up with creativity - no one hires you for creativity (unless lmm). You are there to admin the process and provide bodies as support to do analyses. You are there to what the client says.
PE are the people hiring IB to do work. PE is for people who like truly understanding a business and investing, and yes that also means considering downside cases and doing actual thinking instead of increasing revenue 10% each year in IB and calling it a day. There’s a reason no one uses IB sell side assumptions. PE is all about being an informed optimist, you don’t make 20% returns by being a pessimist ;)
At the end of the day people in IB are who cannot make it to PE or have the critical thinking skills to stay in PE, nothing wrong with it tho. If you just like to follow orders and not have to think independently too much, stay in IB.
Most humble PE associate on WSO
Semi-helpful, thank you
cool story bro, IB pays more than PE nowadays. enjoy the same hours for less pay buddy
You do realize there are groups out there that don't generate 100% of their deal flow from PE, right? Also, some people just like working with clients and being in the trenches with them / providing a service. Increasing revenue by 10% each year? What?
This is a hilariously arrogant response. Do you know what you're doing in PE as an associate and VP (and often as a principal)? You're backsolving to a 20% IRR that the partner already decided he wants to do.
And do you know what you're doing as a junior partner? You're backsolving to a deal that you know you can get through IC, and you've had to spend weeks backroom haggling with sr partners ahead of what is often a performative IC meeting.
Is there more critical thinking in PE vs IB.. sure of course there is, but please don't act like it's some holy land. Good bankers often make more than good PE professionals these days, unless the PE professional owns a piece of the GP. And believe it or not, top lawyers often make more than both.
lol in a world where the global economy collapses so bad we start using environmentally insulated homes as currency there probably wouldn't be a rule of law helping those investors enforce their ownership... but I am curious if any investors exist who actually go that far with DD
Semi-autistic, only cares about money and prestige, willing to marry someone who may only care about their money, doesn’t care about family time, etc. Have fun!
I believe that senior levels are more representative of the nature of each role, so
PE - you're an investor , you focus on the outside world and try to find opportunities and you're rewarded when you find those opportunities that play well
IB - you're a manager, your focus is on both running the department/firm smoothly and also keep the department/business line competitive enough in the market/lower costs/figure out how to grow or sell more products/etc.
so it's all about what fits your character better in the long-term: investor vs. manager
you might be able to do both well, but it also depends on your interests. If you like to read about developing sale skills/building great teams, maybe manager might be your path, if you like reading more about businesses/developments in different industries, maybe you should be an investor
and it might sound that I somehow put investor above manager, but Jamie Dimon was a manager all his career. His entire background is about sitting in different sides of the bank and figuring out what works/what doesn't/what needs to change/etc. he might have been a good PE investor, but maybe he didn't care as much about meeting new management and talking about their businesses
An incredibly risk averse person who realizes that for the first 10 years or so the only requirement of the job is a willingness to punch him/herself in the face +-80hrs/wk. on a risk adjusted basis, making VP or even director in banking does not require heroics and while PE/HF/tech whatever certainly has a higher earnings potential, making $500k at 30 appeals to many.
Or, as Joris Luyendijk argued…Banking is about conformity: make these hours, be predictable. Narcissists have no self-worth, so they need a status symbol outside themselves. That can be a job, and they lose their existential validation without it.” Banks excel at “sucking in” narcissists. “They approach them at university and tell them they need never feel insecure again.”
Are you aware that most junior level finance jobs pay significantly lower than banking? I’m doing this job simply because of money. I happen to inherit nothing from my family so regardless of the validation or insecurity BS that you enumerated, I’m here primarily to make money.
I stayed in banking because when I was a sr analyst / junior associate, I was in a great group working for a really strong partner and getting paid pretty well. Moving to PE felt like starting again even though I had a couple decent offers.
Fast forward 20+ years, I’ve had opportunities in the past year to join a MF as a partner and to run a $2.5bn family office of one of my clients amongst others, and that’s just people approaching me. I stayed in banking because a) my cash comp significantly outweighs the alternatives, b) the carry in the PE job wasn’t exactly great. Felt like the house kept a lot more money than my current situation and c) the autonomy of my present role where I’m a group head and accountable for nothing but my P&L and good behavior is hard to replicate.
There is real money in PE these days but only if you own the GP. Something I’ve considered in the future with some of my friends in the PE business but that’s only worth if you can raise 3bn+ first fund.
Interesting thank you
100% agree with your point about the real money only comes if you own part of the GP.
Which group would you prefer in IBD?
I might ruffle some feathers but.....
You can make more money long term on buyside with carried interest... There's really no question.
People stay in IB for a few reasons:
Do people who become really baller MD’s like this have some existing strong connections even when they’re young that would predict that they’d be that good? Or are some people just built for it and have an exceptional ability to develop those kinds of relationships?
Some people are super good at connecting with people and sound very intelligent and build those relationships over time yeah
I can give a real life data point. I’m probably paid in the 80th-90th percentile of banking MDs and the partner offer in PE was about half my current cash comp.
With a base case carry, I’d say flat on a total comp basis on a non discounted basis. The NOV still a decent amount higher in banking.
What does compensation look like at the MD level vs PE partner? Wouldn't pe partners clip the same amount of cash comp as an MD but also have carry as well?
I’d say a decent performing mid level to senior level partner at a top brand name fund will clip 2-5mm in annual cash comp plus carry. So yes that’s better than most MDs in banking but not better than the 90-95% outcomes they should comp themselves with.
Very helpful thanks. So you're saying a 90th percentile md or the equivalent to that Buyside partner is making more than 5mm a year (to account for lack of carry)? I was under the impression only the top 1% made over 5mm on sell side.
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