If you are graduating in 4 years without relevant internships....why would you?
I don't know who started this weird misconception that college is supposed to be done within 4 years, but that person has imo single handedly fcked your chance at high-finance.
The ENTIRE purpose of going to a college is by definition to best prepare yourself for the future, and the largest part of that equation is getting a job that you truly want (because probably that job pays well and has good prestige like high-finance).
I am graduating college this December (that will be me graduating in 4 and a half years; if I could I would honestly graduate next year December). I am majoring in a useless degree (think social sciences) because I thought I wanted to be a lawyer (I now think becoming a lawyer is quite literally the worst career path you can take; can share why if you want). So anyways, I realized this towards the end of my 2nd year, and I didn't want to do anything related to law, so I began my "corporate recruiting journey" on April 2024, and miraculously got into a short-notice tech consulting internship at a Big 4. Then did AM Ops for the next, then did finance-focused ESG strategy consulting the next, now I am interning at a boutique PE firm in SF, which I leveraged and now I have 2 potential offers from VC firms.
If I were to have done this after I graduated, that career transition that I just explained would have taken 6~8 years to accomplish. But just because I am still in college, it was possible in less than 2. The point I am trying to make is, college is lowkey a fake real-world simulator that people in the real world have created. Use it, abuse it, and do whatever you can during those years to break into any industry you want. I have seen many people take 6~7 years to graduate, and leave with incredible offers because they have 4-5 internships they can show off during interviews. Take me for example, I broke into PE & VC as a social sciences major at a non-target.
But I am curious. Why would people graduate when they know they don't have the internships necessary to get the job they want?
Engineering grad here, finished in 4. The math is field specific.
In IB and MBB the offer bar is so high that an extra year for two more recruiting cycles probably pays back. In most other fields it does not. Lost wages are real and recruiters stop reading you as a student around year 5.
So the OP is right for finance and consulting and wrong for almost everywhere else.
Yeah maybe I am being too field specific. But I didn't know recruiters stopped reading you as a student around year 5? That definitely isn't the case in finance and consulting.
Your experience reminded me of me, and some advice I got that changed my trajectory. I was in college for 6 years.
I considered myself a late bloomer. Through out high school, I was one of the youngest in my grade - I attended an academically rigorous private school and I was average despite trying hard. I went to our in state school and majored in pre-med. I knew that I did not have the grades to become a doctor.
So, between sophomore and junior year, I decided to switch majors to something I liked. Similar to you, social sciences. I lot of my friends were in undergrad business. I thought about Law or working in law enforcement.
Until then, my whole life, I was just a student. I was just trying to survive the curriculum.
Takeaway #1: The real world simulator of college, works best if your major isn’t hard enough that you’re just struggling to keep up.
My junior year, I observed my friends in the business school (student clubs, internships, scholarships, and just a culture that if you go with the flow, you’ll come out ahead) and founded a club to try to bring career planning resources to social science majors. It was the first time I did anything for other people and got out of my comfort zone. I thrived because I had the mental bandwidth to do these things. I saw a niche opportunity, and convinced the faculty to support me. And, I had more mental maturity compared to my first two years.
Despite being behind in credits to graduate due to pre-med, I loaded up on classes my junior and senior year and managed to graduate in 4 years.
What I did next changed my trajectory.
After graduating, I enrolled in my university’s Masters of Accounting program. My study partner in my Japanese 101 class was an older guy and at the end of the semester I asked him, what he did, and he was a partner of a law firm of 13 attorneys trying to learn Japanese (I attended the University of Hawaii, there is a lot of Japan related business in Hawaii). He was a civil engineer turned land use lawyer. He told me to try to get a technical skill set. I didn’t enjoy pre-med. I sure a heck would not like engineering. Accounting? CPA? So I took an intro to financial accounting class and liked it. I was going to pursue a MAcc graduate degree right after undergrad.
I thought about double majoring in social science and accounting which would have taken 6 years (since I would have to take business core classes). Or, getting a bachelor’s and a masters in 6 years; I chose that.
However, I kept thinking I need to hurry up and get out of college. So, the summer before the MAcc, I enrolled in an accelerated accounting certificate at the University of Washington. Basically, it did nothing to help me graduate faster since the credits didn’t transfer; however, it did cover almost 70% of the course materials of the MAcc in an accelerated summer program. It made my MAcc experience a lot easier academically. The MAcc was evening classes, and I worked some great internships during the day. I joined the accounting club and beta alpha psi and became the president. I led a team that won the school’s business plan competition. I got scholarships and eventually the best job I could get.
I think being older, more mature, wiser and more sure of what I wanted to do, played a big part. I was older than 80% of my peers whereas most of my life prior, I was younger.
Earlier in my MAcc, I met with the Dean of accountancy and he said to me, “why are you rushing to graduate? Take advantage of all the resources at the school.” He couldn’t have been more right.
Takeaway #2: use the resources of college and personal growth environment to be more than just a student; everyone grows up at their own pace.
I positioned myself as someone who graduated undergrad in 4 years and got a masters degree. I eventually got a MBA, so two masters (my wife joked she will divorce if I get another). I needed 6 years to grow up and it was worth it. But I did little life hacks along the way with the summer certificate to make the academics easier and for once being a little older and mature than my peers, for student clubs leadership positions (having started my own club on another part of campus turned out to be great qualifications). I stacked up on good internships. And I worked during the day, but had flexibility for school extracurriculars.
Sometimes you’re just a late bloomer and 4 years is just an arbitrary number, just like age. I think a masters degree right after undergrad could help you in a similar way but also help you craft a narrative and experience that is the best of both worlds.
That is an experience and a half. Yes, I agree with everything you are saying. I would consider MAs as an extension of college, so yes, you can do that as well (and a lot of people actually are doing that due to the terrible job market). I just don't really understand the people going out into the real-world without the preparation (ex. having right internships) ready to become successful, so hats off to you for making a decision and sticking to it.
Thank you very much
As someone doing a masters to pivot out of undergrad and feels useless/driftless/late in these times, this was helpful to read. What did you do after your MAcc and MBA? Also are you from Hawaii? I’m not but I almost went to UH Manoa myself.
Thank you for reading. Yes, I’m from Hawaii! So, after my MAcc, I got a job in Big 4 audit in San Francisco in 2005. Passed my CPA exams.
Then, got a job at a commercial real estate private equity firm as an acquisitions analyst. My job was to evaluate equity LP investments into joint venture real estate developments. Think about your local RE developer building a Safeway anchored shopping center or a 200 unit apartment building. As an analyst, I created a financial model and wrote an Investment Committee memo that detailed the risks and rewards of the contemplated investment.
As a social science major, I felt the research, synthesis of information, big picture perspectives, trends, and prose writing to create a convincing argument was really helpful. Even today. After all, we studied the behavior of groups, and in my work career, we sell to groups of people and service them.
The accounting background made me very comfortable with understanding the cause and effect of money.
I later became unemployed during a big recession and worked at senior living facility in SF. I had been interested in caring for the elderly since undergrad. I really like talking to old people.
Fast forward, I became a real estate developer (my Berkeley MBA helped me get a big pay bump along the way). And then I co-founded three companies in my mid-30’s to late 30’s: two senior housing companies and a mental health housing company.
A few things helped me along the way:
I also was unlucky (got pushed out of successful company) but was very persistent and endured a lot of trouble. But in the end, it paid off. Furthermore, I was unemployed for longer than 6 months, three times in my 20 year career. I learned a lot of resilience.
Anyways, you never know what will happen. Life presents you (everyone) with opportunities and good fortune. You have to be prepared and make moves.
My best advice if you are feeling lost now:
Find 2-3 themes and overlapping skill sets and a big long term trend. Then, get obsessed about it (research, attend conferences, have conversations). Then shut off all comparisons to others, you are playing your own game now, measured by only you. And then keep grinding. Sooner or later you’ll find yourself in the hot industry / the good times (you didn’t chase it, they all came to you).
Well,
Firstly most people don't really know what they want to do when they enter into college. That's just how it is. I know plenty of guys and gals who go to college for the "College Experience" and thoroughly have enjoyed the last 4 years. Which is completely fine; it's their choice.
Unless you know how IB and high finance recruiting work before you apply to college, you won't. I mean, IB and high finance in general is such a small sector of the broader finance industry, you have to somehow sense what you want to do at the age of 17 or 18. That is too much to ask of most high schoolers, especially those who don't have family connections.
I'll agree with you on the money part, yes, that's why most people want to go to college, because they want a job that pays well at the end, but I'll disagree with you on the prestige part. Again, you have to actively be in the circles of these careers to appreciate the "prestige" of these jobs. I mean you could be a IB analyst at Natixis but more people will be interested in the guy who works for Goldman Sachs as a risk analyst, despite the denizens of this site proclaiming IB as the most prestigious career.
Also, most scholarships run out after 4 years. Most people can't afford to take a year or two. They just can't, and that's fine. People also work, and they can't take an internship and juggle working and juggle school.
Good job on grinding and seeing the writing on the wall when it came to your law career. I would venture most people wouldn't have the willingness to do what you did.
I agree with most of what you say. I also am graduating in 4 and a half years because my scholarship is only 4 years long.
But relating to your last point and also your general point, I think the problem is people don't do enough research about 'where' they want to go, and they just do college blindly. As you pointed out, yes, most people in my majors don't really want to do law. But they just blindly go for it, investing multiple six figures of tuition into law school because most people around them also do it, and also because they think if they don't go to law school the only other option is working as a barista at Starbucks (I have heard so many of my colleagues tell me "but how will you get into finance with a social sciences degree?"). I think this sense of self-doubt and lack of research on what's possible for them is genuinely ruining peoples' futures.
Yes share why you think law is one of the worst careers to go into. I get the time/money/hours tradeoff but is that all that makes it one of the worst? It seems more stable than finance, at least.
Good on you for acting fast. I changed to finance in senior year lol so I got unpaid intern experience and am doing a masters for a better school name + internship. Also will the PE/VC you’re interning with give you a return offer?
If we were face to face I would go for hours, but just for the sake of the post I will state 3 in a very high-level overview. And yes, both of them have potential return offer options (obviously only if I perform really well).
With all this said, this is only the case of the U.S. I don't know if other places around the world is different of law.
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