'manly' men are actually girly girls
if the reason why you are 'manly' (into things typically described as 'manly'/behave in a nature that would be considered 'manly') is only because you were influenced by society to be 'manly' - then you are actually a girly girl. let me explain. there are men who are manly simply because society told them to be manly. there are girls who are girly simply because society told them to be girly. consider a man who falls in this bucket (of being 'manly' only because society told him to be manly), if he was a girl then he would want to be girly - he doesn't want to be manly independent of society, he wants to be 'manly' because he wants to fit the mold, and he would just be a girl if that was what the mold was. therefore, most 'manly' men are actually just girly girls. you could say something like that.
I think it’s an interesting idea, but it’s very difficult to say where tastes come from. Yes we are influenced by the array of activities presented to young men, but by the time someone is an adult their preferences and hobbies should have developed and been influenced by so many factors that you can’t be certain that traditionally masculine men were only pushed toward the standard of society versus having an innate taste for typically masculine interests.
yes you are spot on. I'm not saying that all manly men are manly men because they were pushed by societal factors to become manly men, I'm just saying that some percentage of manly men are only manly men because they were pushed by societal factors to become manly men. one thing I would challenge from your response is the idea of being 'influenced by so many factors' - everything is either (1) how you were born (2) how you were impacted by external factors, that is literally it - all the different factors you can come up with could just be grouped as the term 'external factors' (this is just my opinion if you have a different one that is fine).
part of me feels like the ability to have higher thinking capabilities is another factor separate from the way that you were born or the way that you were impacted by societal factors. my thoughts aren't fully fleshed out on that though.
I generally agree with the idea here.
Interests would be either innate or externally influenced. I think I’d lean closer to interests being an aspect of someone’s core personality. The way I see personality, it’s certainly influenced by life and one’s environment, but it grows from an original unique germ. From as soon as people develop consciousness I believe that someone’s nature is largely determined and will just present itself over time as a reaction to external influences.
E.g. a boy John is born. He has a propensity towards action and movement. He grows to become an athlete, skier, and firefighter. I think the origin of these masculine interests would be his innate interests. He may have toured a fire station, gone skiing, or joined the track team, but I would argue those experiences reveal the interest that ties into his personality rather than add it to him.
The question of whether John would be interested in feminine things if he were a girl is impossible to answer. If interests are innate, then John-F would just be a girl with a propensity toward action and movement. Maybe if shown ballet she would be a dancer and it’s possible she would even become the same kind of athlete.
Let’s say another person Sarah has an innate interest in conformity and becomes a very feminine woman. If she were a man with the same personality I would expect him to be masculine. This is the case where saying manly men would be girly girls makes sense. But it’s because she was girly due to conformity and not an interest that led her to like things that happen to be considered girly.
TLDR: Masculine men would not necessarily be feminine women but I would agree that someone could fit closely to gender expectations regardless of his or her sex if it stemmed from personality.
for some reason I can't see the comment in this thread.
never mind I see it now. my bad it just wasn't showing up before.
Man if you put as much effort into finding a job as you did this post, you would still probably be without a job
it's interesting how you posted in another thread about religious people thinking that they were better than other people who were not religious, I could draw a parallel between that idea and the idea of you coming into my thread here and posting what you posted (because you are the 'superior' one with the job/I am the 'inferior' one without a job), and you are looking down on me/thinking that you are better than me from your position of power.
One major difference between manly men and girly girls.
Having good makeup, hair, clothes etc. will actually get you laid.
Having a lifted pickup or a sports car won't and will only impress other dudes. I know this might piss a lot of you off but it's true.
haha great comment
Are those things seen as manly? Whenever I think of those cars I just picture a hick lol
Cars are definitely a manly hobby. What varies is the type of car which depends on your social class (income level). A partner won’t be looking at a pickup truck but instead luxury cars. Similarly a rural working class guy won’t go near a Mercedes.
This is a terrible analogy.
The male equivalent here would be lifting weights and getting jacked, dressing nice, and good grooming. You can’t argue in good faith that what I just listed doesn’t matter for the average male.
A female knowing how to crochet or knit isn’t going to move the needle for a guy choosing her except for select guys (no different than your car example).
Do you mean the ppl who try to conform to the stereotype right? I’d say I’m likely to be perceived as manly due to my hobbies but don’t really care
If my grandmother had wheels she would've been a bike
Being a man isn't about acting tough or having a muscular frame. It based on how you respond to adversity, how you overcome your fears, have a strong belief system, confidence, a desire to protect those around you, etc.
'being a man' isn't about anything. you literally just made those things up or we decided that those things that you said are manly or are supposed to be manly.
go watch planet earth sometime
Lots of WSO won’t like this take but this is literally the entire basis of the “why gender is fluid/fake” argument. It’s just a bunch of social norms imprinted on you at birth that you are expected to follow to a certain degree. Some think the gender performance should be far more prescriptive than others.
Not be confused with sex as that is your anatomy you were born with depending on the X Y chromosome.
interesting. good to know that I am naturally on the same page as the people who theorized gender in modernity. god I wish I was born normie.
We just going to forget about the biological impacts of testosterone and estrogen?
no it's about using your higher thinking capabilities to overcome your animalistic urges, that's literally what would separate us from a bug.
That doesn’t explain the fact that I’ve enjoyed hand-to-hand combat with wild bears since birth
Have you fought against Cocaine Bear though???
"Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one." Marcus wrote that ~2000 years ago and it's just as relevant as ever.
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