I haven't seen anything about this yet and figure it would be nice to get the thread started. I just had my performance review and comp update, I switched jobs so I got a prorated bonus, but it was based on the full percentage in my offer (30%). I hear my firm pretty typically gives full bonus if they can (2020 was a recent exception for obvious reasons).
As far as raises go, I was in a bit of an unusual position where I started at one level with the expectation that I'd be getting a promotion soon, and they confirmed that in the review, so they boosted my income to put me on track for the next level, which they are expecting I'll be at next year. So that was a 12.5% raise, my peers got a 5% COL raise.
Edit: I'll add my info
Role: Senior Associate
Industry: Development
YOE: 5 + MBA
Location: Northeast
Mine was interesting to say the least, but basically forgoed bonus and salary increase until market bounces back a bit. Just a conversation for next year ect.
What industry
Was told bonus should be on par with last year (60-70%) but not sure about base pay raise.
On base pay, I plan on asking to start at current base + whatever CPI is at YE... This ideally is where the base pay discussing starts (accounting for CPI), then hopefully get a 7-10% true performance raise on top of that.
As a follow up to this, got bumped 9%+ on base today. Was reiterated to me that bonuses should be similar to last year.
Haven't had my formal YE review yet, but think I still might ask for some sort of inflationary increase once I have that talk.
Forgot the latest but YOY inflation is high single digit, and started with that, and still hoping to end with 7-10%!!! Bullish lol
analyst 1 YOE
NYC
construction lender
target bonus is 15% but office had a great year and actual bonus is 40%
5% COL raise which is lower than I was hoping for, especially with CPI being where it is
Not hearing my new numbers until Feb, but I will throw in 2022 for a data point
Title: Associate (senior analyst equivalent given our post-MBA level is "Senior Associate")
YOE: ~2.5 (0 in RE, joined this fall)
Industry: Development
Firm Size: >25Bn worth of projects in process, all product types
Location: MCOL South/Southeast
Salary: 95k, hoping for ~105k in 2023
Bonus: Offer letter stated 10% guaranteed for 2020 (not prorated) so 9.5k. Going to push for more clarity on the 2023 bonus but hoping for ~20-25%
Signing: 15k
Hours: 50-55 consistently, with occasional 40 or 60
TBH this was a big pay cut from my previous (non-RE) role, as 2023 likely would have shaken out to 175-180k. I have been enjoying this job far more so far though, and know the trajectory is much stronger (did a psuedo DCF on my earnings to find out break-even on the reduced earnings. Should come out ahead in 4 or 5 years). Hoping that my 2023 comp comes out to >120k to match/exceed my 2022 comp including signing.
Just curious, where does your RE comp begin to pick up in your psuedo-DCF? Are you assuming you get carry in 4-5 years? If so, I'm curious what the carry works out to be in terms of whole dollar profit & timeline.
My understanding was that at the VP level, the carry is roughly $100k - $500K of additional comp and it typically takes 2-3 years to get the first check, after which you hopefully start seeing 2-3 property level exits a year and start getting ~$250K-$750K a year in total carry. Is this basically what you'd project as reality or am I missing something?
Ignored carry when projecting out earnings since it's just monopoly money until I get a payout (3-4 years after making VP..... so ~8-9 years from now best case).
I have a bit of insight into the cash comp for Senior associates and VPs at my firm (the two levels above my current one), so just used a reasonable comp for those years. Income should start to pick up in earnest in 2025 assuming senior asso promo (should start at roughly 2x my current total comp, rising each year). My general understanding of how cash comp could shake out at each level.
Senior associate: 225k-275k would cover most
VP: 325k-425k would cover most
SVP: 500k-750k would cover most, very little insight here, but based on very limited data this is my best guess
I don't know as much about how carry works at my firm (outside of at the partner / MD level, since I can see those numbers as part of portfolio management responsibilities). I do know that VP and below get some level of profit sharing for deals they worked on, but it isn't a figure that is set in stone as formal carry (for VPs this can vary). If I had to ballpark the carry promote of a VP on a good team with a good pipeline....I would say the lower half of the range of your figures is about right for VPs at my firm and SVP's would be at the upper end of that range. Maybe shakes out to 500-600k for a VP, and getting into the 1M range for SVPs, although you would never actually get paid that much in a single year at those levels, since by the time you get paid out for a deal you are likely another level up (most VPs make SVP in ~3-4 years and same for SVP to principal/partner).
There is so much variance however that outside of senior associates and new VPs, I really can't say with any confidence what earnings will be. But at least for the next 6-7 years I have a rough idea where I will be each year.
Will be interesting for bank lenders. Most everyone hit their number and expects to be taken care of but surely some banks will cite the recession and try not to pay.
jarstar1 That's a pretty impressive bump in a non-promo year, especially considering the state of the economy. Do you know why you got such a large raise relative to your peers, having only recently joined your company? Was this something you negotiated when you joined?
I was hired with the intention that I would be bumping against the top bracket of the position, with looks to get promoted at the next cycle. They confirmed that the work I'd been doing was on par with expectations, so they gave me a raise that put me on the path to the promotion. Ideally this time next year I'll get the bump to Director and another pay bump, so they were just spacing it out so I didn't have to wait two cycles before getting like a 40% bump.
YOE: ~7-8
Industry: Development
Firm Size: > 1bn Assets
Location: MCOL West Cost
Salary: 15% increase
Bonus: 35%
YoE: 1,5Role: Investment Analyst and Asset Manager for a fundRegion: Northern EuropeCompany size: 5bil€Raise: 0 (my company doesn't give raises unless switching jobs)Bonus: 25% (the max in my firm)Tldr: Anyone hiring?
Base?
45k
How is Agency lending looking? I think this year agency shops that also have a balance sheet were lucky and the balance sheet/bridge loans in the first half of the year might have saved the day when agencies were slow. Bonuses may not be terrible this year as a result but I do not have high hopes for next year. It's looking to be an awful year. Balance sheet lending will also only be harder next year I imagine. You also know it's bad when the agencies probably think they will miss their budget for next year before the year has even began lol. That would make it back to back years they miss their budget.
$25K stub
$75K full bonus (2023)
Role: Acquisitions / Investments Analyst @ developer
Size: 30bn it total projects
City: LA
YOE: 2 years (3 years in industry)
Salary: 110k (10% raise)
Bonus: 30%
Role: Acq / Inv Analyst
Firm: FO (~$100mm in equity investments)
Location: Atlanta
YOE: 2
5% COL raise , 25% bonus
Role: Development Associate
Firm: 300m under construction, pipeline ~$500m
Location: Mountain West Secondary Market
YOE: 2.5
Base: $100k (20% raise for next year)
Bonus: $185k (60 paid, 120k contributed as LP)
What do you mean 120k of your bonus is contributed as LP? They force you to invest it back into the fund?
Sounds more like carry than a bonus almost
wow as an associate, your bonus is extremely good
Got final 2022 numbers Friday: up 10% base, up 25% bonus, up 50% in carry (up 28% overall). Good to be a lender right now...
Good stuff. Can you share title / base / bonus %?
I'm the head of debt AM. AUM of about 4bn. I have 15 years of experience.
Base is 400k, bonus is 100-150%. My carry comes out to about 350k a year.
Wow
What exactly do you do?
YOE
Where do you based out of?
And your firm size/biz size
Get my bumps/final comp next week, so I'll update accordingly, but if the Christmas gift gives me any indication it won't be amazing. Last year they gave me a 7% company performance bonus + 9% bump in base + double my bonus for completing an acquisition. This year we did 40% of our typical acquisitions, so my pay was basically flat to last year. Hoping for a promotion, but we're a small firm and I think we want to finish some round trips this year before that happens.
Role: Associate
YOE: 3 in RE, 2 in Corp Dev/Finance + MBA
Base: $80K + $15k per acquisition
Year End Bonus: ?
Total Comp: $120K? (Boss thought it'd be closer to $140-150k since we've typically done more acquisitions)
Hours: Vary, but I work fully remote, so if we are not busy, could be 30 hours in a week, during acquisitions could be 60-70. Probably right around 40-50 this year. Cheap COL since I work remotely.
Hoping to get some carry or a bonus to make up for lower than expected comp.
No bonus or raise...again...
Luckily I wasn't planning on sticking around to begin with, but that's just atrocious.
I thought you made a decent move a few years ago? What happened?
I've been at the same spot for about 5-6 years now. Starting my own company but it's slow moving.
No bonus or raise is a repeat occurrence? same firm or has this happened across multiple firms?
Same firm. "Not in firm culture" to give annual bonuses or cost of living raises.
Haha wtf?
Do you have equity in the deals? If so, I could maybe understand. If you’re all cash comp, that’s messed up
I do have equity. Still, I'm underpaid.
How do you all recommend pushing back on new target base/bonus numbers during comp talks? Obviously never gonna ask for "more bonus" for a year that's already finished, but when/how do you bring up base and bonus targets for the new year.
Pretty frustrated, 8% bonus and 5% raise.. had 15% bonus in my contract. Time to make the jump to bigger firm or REPE where the hours are still crap but at least you're paid well.
What are you doing now?
Were you there the whole year?
I have seen people get pissed when they get prorated.
.
Rough
ROLE: VP of AM
YOE: 9
AUM: ~1.5b
Base: 180k > 215k
Bonus: $85k (~40%), no change in carry (1 point, worth ~120/year in good years)
Hours - ~45-50/week
HCOL area
Not too shabby, that's a solid raise. Congrats!
Was your bonus in-line with expectations?
Yeah it was more of a reset to market (I came in a bit under and things ran with inflation). Bonus was in line with expectations. There's also some cash flow participation from the promote, but that's not going to be relevant $$ for a while.
Wow.
I always thought, asset management is a back function and pay isn’t good… but yours blew my mind.
Bonus is what I think it would be give YOE and AUM, but base is very high, and you got $120k in defer!!!
You do AM of mortgages or equity?
Totally depends on the shop. I'm on the equity side, but debt pays just as well at good shops.
Role : Associate - Acq + AM (2nd year)
YOE: 4.5
AUM: $10B+
Base: $100k > $125k
Bonus: 100% (70% last year)
Hours: 35-50
HCOL area
Pretty satisfied with the results overall and I expect to be even busier in 2023.
Damn congrats, great comp for your level and hours. What type of firm?
Awesome hours!
Role: Senior Associate
Industry: Agency Lending
YOE: 4.5
Location: East Coast
The company wide bonus pool (so not including commissions/stock grants) is typically 20% of salary but will likely only be about 15% this year for top performers. CoL raises are 4%, not yet clear how many people are getting merit/promotion raises yet.
Sounds like a bank that rhymes with Sales Embargo.
Nope, thankfully at a scandal-free shop. Just not a fun time in the agency world right now.
What's your base pay excluding bonus? Are you happy with your pay?
Base pay is $70k plus commission (debt origination team), which varies but is usually 100%-120% of base.
Get your bitcoin bs outta my thread! We only deal in real assets here.
Position: Director - Acquisition
YOE: 9
AUM: Roughly $4B
Base: Increase from $175k to $200k
Bonus: This year - $225k. Next year target of $250k - 300k next year. Promote still at 1% of fund roughly equates to $1.5M - $2M every 3 years. Latest fund will be my third participation in promote.
Hours - 45 - 60 hours / week
Our boy over here is crushing it. Nice work
I'll have what he's having.
Ballin', congrats my friend. You must work at a very active shop for 1% carry to equal $1.5M - $2M every three years. Are you concerned at all about your latest fund raise and performance tied to it? Has deal flow slowed down at all for you? I would be surprised if it hasn't.
Thanks. Def helped that I was at the right company at the right time as we have seen tremendous growth.
For my promote estimates I used conservative returns to get to those numbers if used historical funds as the baseline it would have been higher. It also helps that we have large funds over $1B+.
Deal flow wise it has been a very slow year compared to 2021. But the good news is we are barely deployed on our latest fund less than 10%. I hope things pick up late Q1 / Q2 but I think it will take more time for the new pricing to accepted by the market and hopefully the capital markets will also settle down. But definitely excited to have plenty of capital to put to work when things pick up.
Role: Associate
Industry: Senior Living
YOE: 3 years
Location: Southeast
Salary: 90k (3% raise next year)
Bonus: 15%
Hours: 40
Role: First year Analyst out of undergrad
REPE
YOE: 0 years
HCOL
Salary: 100k
Bonus: Target 35%-60%
Role: Investment Banking
Hobbies: Spitting hot bars in the booth with my bros
YOE: 3
Title: Associate
Base Salary: $175K
Bonus: $125K (mid bucket)
Total Comp: $300K on the dot
No one gives a shit you make more money, we're actually doing something interesting instead of pushing logos around or begging companies for business. You don't make anything, you just move dollars from one pocket to another and skim off the top. We're at least building physical properties in the real world.
In IB and I approve this message. This job is unbelievably unfulfilling sometimes. Most of us are just in denial that we took this job for money alone. Following passions is respectable and a move I sometimes wish I considered more.
What you are saying is honestly true. I would say RE is one of the lower paid sectors when compared to the others on WSO. Not too many jobs that pay well at the junior level. And when anyone talks about how they can negotiate harder comp, all the hardo’s come in and attack those seeking higher comp by saying they don’t deserve it given that they are not the ones taking the risk, signing the guarantees, etc. newsflash, juniors in other sectors aren’t taking risk either, but they are compensated better!! Real estate has relatively shitty comp and until all of us working professionals collectively try to fix and fight for that, things won’t change all that much. As long as the hardo’s keep shitting on us saying that we don’t deserve higher comp because we aren’t taking the risk, comp will remain below other sectors of finance.
Are we still falling for these trolls IB-wanna be children? lol
Kids probably jerking off in his dorm room still tryin to go through OCR for a glorified paper pushing job to fix PPT logos while sleeping at his desk. Nothing cool about work 80 hours a week with a free $25 meal couple, gtfoutta here.
CC thatREbro
I 100% agree that RE is way more fun and way less frustrating than IB. Comp I'm not sure on though.
I used to do IB. I left for REPE when I had 3 years exp and am so happy I did. I made $250k last year, so $50k less than you, but my life is so so much better now it’s insane.
I see friends, go on dates, play tennis, go to workout classes, etc on weekday nights. The job is much more interesting because it’s all “real” - meaning we’re only spending time on deals because we actually think we can deploy our investors Capital into the deal.
Even on live deals in IB, we’d spend so much time on BS analyses that people didn’t really care about. Or we were outsourced excel monkeys for our public company clients. Or I had to do BS admin work for follow-on offerings.
Idk maybe there are better IB jobs out there at EBs, but the reality is that the first two years teach you how to grind and produce clean, useful analyses.Beyond that your IB experience isn’t that applicable to the guys who actually deploy money. At least until you get very senior and your relationships are your value.
Get out while you still can. I know $300k feels like a lot of money, but in the grand scheme of things it’s not. Rn the pay cut is $50k, but as you get more senior, your value to the buyside doesn’t really increase. So as a senior associate or VP you might have to take a $200k pay cut.
Different strokes for different folks. I think REPE is a ton of fun and we all agree that IB is one of the most grunt-work heavy fields in the world. All that said, I still would rather be a Senior Banker than Senior Fund Manager / REPE MD. I just don't like the concept of being married to a fund or assets performance. That's what turns me off from buy-side in general. I feel confident I can do well and bring in deals as a senior banker and make myself a whole bunch of money doing so. I've already sourced one deal in my current role and it's 1,000% more tolerable when you're working on YOUR deal. Just got to make it another 3-6 years or so, if all goes well, and I can hopefully get to the point where I get to work my own deals and actually enjoy being a banker instead of just tolerating it for payoff down the line.
Again, to be clear, I was trolling in my first comment and I am in nooooo way saying IB > RE. I'm just sayin' I like the IB route because I'm more of the individual hustler type and I don't want comp tied to anything besides my own performance and success. Strictly personal preference and I absolutely agree that REPE is much more fun as a junior employee.
If you can handle the 10-15 year grind to MD + the very reasonable possibility of being laid off at Director after 10-12 years of grinding, then more power to you. IB is perfect for you given your preferences.
I personally can’t stand the idea of giving up my 20s / 30s for a negligible increase in comp
You seem to want to argue.
Not sure I agree that it is easier to make MD in PE than it is to make MD in IB
Also don't agree that hard work =/= "giving up my 20s". I largely like my work, all things good & bad considered.
Now that I think about it I wouldn't call $50K negligible either. I'll certainly take $50K off your hands if it means nothing to ya!
But also, given that I am happy & confident in my decision, I feel no need to try and sell other people on it and get no joy/despair from whether or not other people will agree with and affirm my choices.
I am sure you are the same, happy in your current position and not seeking my or other people's affirmation of your life choices via making snarky anonymous forum comments. Now let's get out there and keep doing god's work raising rents and skimming commissions hahah
I clearly hit a nerve because your entire post history (and your anonymous posts as Prop Trader Recruiter) is nothing but you putting other people down. But I bring the heat and you want to take the high road? Coward move.
You worked at a dog shit REPE firm that managed like $300mm total, of course you think IB is better. If you ever worked at a legit REPE firm, you’d know better than to come in here with your troll comment.
You’re giving up all of your nights in IB and some weekends. Not your entire 20s, but a really important chunk - at least to someone with a full social calendar. It’s not just “hard work” either. Have you ever worked on a strategic alternatives deck for a clients board meeting? You’ll lose out on tons of fun social experiences for doing something that the Board ultimately will just glance over lmao.
$50k is negligible for two reasons.
1) While you were working at some tiny REPE firm, I was making bank in IB / investing it pre-Covid and saved a ton. Now I can afford to do what I want / enjoy without stressing over $25k post tax money.
2) The real money is made in your 30s / 40s. It’s about longevity and making it to the top of your firm or starting your own firm. Why would you make major career decisions over $50k of comp when millions are on the line?
I was actually kinda just trying to stop you from embarrassing yourself by having this type of deeply emotional reaction to a joke on a forum lmfao.
Side note - we all know how to check anonymous posts brah. After reading yours, I know precisely why my joke about a certain LMM bank offended you...
TBT to when you broke character to defend your career choices on an anonymous finance forum 💔
lol what a sad comment. Its this kind of comment/thinking which explains why “finance bros” get a bad rep… these kinds of people think the only way to “win” the rat race that is life is to simply make more money.
Obviously apples to apples, between two people with the same YOE one in IB and one in RE, the one in IB will 99% of the time make more money (at least at a junior level). Here’s the thing, everyone has their own reason as to why they went into RE… it’s not all about money my guy. If that were the case, you’re still losing out to the FAANG kiddos so…
Director at top 50AUM firm in US - Portfolio Management - All sectors
9 YOE
Major NE (Boston/DC)
200base+50%bonus+LTIP (equates to ~25% of base / year) - all in about 350/yr
40-50 hours/week
This year I got a 5% cost of living bump - received all target bonus. CY23 is going to be problematic.
FWIW, great comp and sounds like a good lifestyle. May I ask, are you on the equity or debt side? You reference "all sectors" - I feel like in general, specialization (into, say, multifamily or industrial or office) seems to be the norm now. Are you weighted towards one in particular?
Thanks! I'm on the equity side. Sectors refer to MF/industrial/life-science/office/retail/ in that order of weight - we are sector agnostic.
Development Manager
Southeast
Base $135k - No bump in pay
Bonus $0
Equity equates to roughly 75-100 bps of GP equity on each deal (greater on the deals I personally work on and less on the ones I am not involved in) which equated to:
20' = $250k
21' = $350k
22' = $500k
23' will probably be something like $350k
When you say equity do you mean inputted equity into each deal meaning you get .75%-1% of all GP profit (I.e fees, promote, profit) or is it structured differently?
I put up that amount of equity and the net returns equal roughly those numbers.
For example, I am working on a deal that has a total capitalization of just under $100M. Total equity is $40M. GP Equity is $4M. My equity participation is 1% of the GP, so I wrote a check for $40k (actually, i wrote a check for about $20k when we took down the land and then sold it to our venture with the LP at a marked up basis and got my money back so am in on the deal at a $0 basis). If projections in the underwriting hold (middle of the road projections), this project would yield about $30M in proceeds to the JV. After the waterfall, that would be about $10M to the GP (and $100k to me).
Position: Associate - Acquisitions
YOE: 5
AUM: $10B+
Base: Increase from $125k to $150k
Bonus: This year - $45k. Next year target of $50k-70k next year.
Hours: 45 - 70 hours / week
Where are you based out of?
And what’s your deal volume ($) in a year??
Feel like your comp sounds about markets (assuming you get no LTI/deferred)
Major East Coast Hub (not NYC)
In a normal year, $1b-$3B, but we're in a far from normal environment.
My numbers are pending...last year's below.
Asset Manager
RE/PE
Major northeastern US city
2022: $135k + 40%B
2023: estimating $140k + 40% B
Hours: 40-50 per week (generally 40 unless shit hits the fan)
Raises at my firm are generally not impressive....work/life is decent...no opportunity to get any promote participation or outsized reward, but better than slogging through life at a LIHTC shop with easy work but no rewards. My shop feels like it's somewhat low-risk low-reward as an employer.
How many years experience?
9 total. 6 accounting/finance/performance measurement + 3 AM.
Position: Associate - Acquisitions at REPE fund
YOE: 5
Base: Increase from $125k to $150k
Bonus: This year - $125k
Hours: 35-70 hours / week
HCOL city but not NYC
AUM?
It’s irrelevant info. There are massive life cos, Asset Managers, developers and REPE funds that pay junior staff poorly (Heitman, Greystar, etc). There are relatively small PE funds ($1-$3bn AUM total) that pay a shit ton of money because they’re lean or do complex deals and want to pay for top talent (Baupost, Two Sigma, Jadian, etc).
Chicago? seems too low to be SF/LA
ROLE: VP, Product Strategy
YOE: 10
Firm: International Investment Manager
AUM: ~15bn relevant CRE AUM
Base: $235k (bumped to $250 in 2023)
Bonus: $95k (target was $150k, but firm suffered in 2022; hope to get back on track in 2023)
Carry: None
Hours: - ~60-70/week
Location: NYC
Investment Fund
All asset classes / markets
2022
Base: 130k raised to 150k
Bonus: 50k vs 40k target
Also picked up carry worth ~100k a year. Cash component still kinda low for 6 YOE but carry was pretty awesome.
Hours: 30-40 generally 40-50 during crunch
What type of firm, asset type, and markets?
It’s a fund. All asset classes all markets.
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