So I've been thinking a lot lately about how I don't want to be working for someone else forever. I'm tired of making other people money. I'm quite driven and put 100% of myself into what I do... so why do that for other people when I could do it for myself? I'm also capable and know how to figure stuff out. Finally, I have resources to support myself and whatever dreams I have. The emotional conclusion to all of that is that at some point I should simply go off on my own and start my own thing.
I'm 31 years old with no family or even serious girlfriend. I have good experience having worked at several operators in the past and now work for an institutional REPE firm seeing all sorts of deals and getting more and more comfortable analyzing deals and operations. And I personally manage a handful of SFR's for my family. Without bragging and just to give a full account of my situation, I have family willing to write me a check for about $500k if I choose to go off on my own. I also have about $200k of my own savings for a total of $700k.
I see myself staying in my current role for maybe 1-2 more years, at which point I probably won't get VP at my current shop, but could probably make the jump at a firm of comparable quality - just to give y'all a sense of where I'm at in my career. I want to continue to learn everything I can about structuring deals and debt, managing operations, building relationships, etc. 2 years in my current job and I'll be dangerous enough to know what I don't know and how to get up to speed.
It all sounds like a pretty ideal runway, but - and I guess here's my issue - I don't know what profitability as an operator looks like. Even with seed money of $700k, what kind of livable return could I expect? Here's me spitballing some numbers: Assume I spend about 1/3rd of my starting cash ($250k) on pursuit costs and the other $450k as my GP equity. At a 5% equity stake, that's $9,000,000 of total equity that I could capture (big assumption: I can raise that equity). At a discounted 1.5% annual AUM fee, that's about $130k/year. Assume I lever up the $9m to a relatively conservative 60% LTV, that's $22.5m property value that I could purchase. At a discounted 0.75% acq fee, that's $170k. Say it takes me 2 years to deploy that capital, that's about $150k in Y1 ($65k + $85k) and $215k in Y2 ($130k + $85k). Fair to say that's basically how the economics work? If so, running a one-man shop, that would totally be a financially viable business.
But how difficult is that to actually accomplish? If I'm building a diversified portfolio of 4-5x $5m properties, we're talking 30-40k SF industrial warehouses or 15-20 unit apartment complexes. Surely you could structure 4-5x strong risk-adjusted yield deals in that market segment over a 2 year period...? The biggest issue would be capitalizing them, right? So if you don't have a single backer with deep pockets, you'll have to pool equity/syndicate and that could be a hassle and even end up killing deals. Perhaps you can clear that hurdle by skipping much of the F&F money by getting in front of and pitching to HNW individuals. If you're well connected to the brokers in your market, they could probably connect you with an owner they work with who wouldn't mind being a LP in a great deal...
Now, the word of advice on this forum is to syndicate part-time while keeping your full-time job, until you can't keep your FT job. What does that look like? Calling on and underwriting deals in your target markets, traveling to the assets in the evenings or on the weekends, drawing up PSA, JV, and loan docs late at night, fielding vendor and 3rd party calls during your lunch break, etc.? Sounds hectic but doable.
I'd love to just own my own RE and not answer to investors, but I glossed over that possibility because it's not a thing when you only have $700k to put down. And being a pure allocator wouldn't give me the juice with such little capital to work with. So the path is as a GP hustling around raising capital and making deals work, and then making them *work*. I guess my point with this whole stream of consciousness is to express this frankly lame feeling that I'm an imposter and that there isn't a clear path to being self-employed in real estate ownership, at least not where I'm at. I could use the peanut gallery's perspectives on what a GP startup really looks like in the beginning stages. How does a W2 employee with mostly W2 experience find a path, even just a foothold, that could lead to running his own deals? In real estate where it's a long game and you can't bootstrap a startup and find a lucrative exit in 12 months, what can a young, cash-constrained RE professional do to build a living for himself? How does one "go off on his own"?
Based on the most helpful WSO content, here’s a breakdown of your situation and the challenges of "going off on your own" as a GP in real estate:
1. Your Financial Position and Seed Capital
2. Profitability as an Operator
3. Challenges of Starting as a GP
4. Part-Time Syndication While Employed
5. Alternative Paths
6. Mindset and Imposter Syndrome
7. Key Takeaways
If you’re looking for more actionable advice, many WSO threads emphasize the importance of networking, finding mentors, and starting small to build momentum. Keep grinding, and you’ll find your path!
Sources: Going out solo as a GP - juice worth the squeeze?, Why Not Start Your Own Shop?, https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/real-estate/how-to-go-out-on-your-own?customgpt=1
Here's a crazy idea: Start with one deal.
Valid
How can you not buy a real estate deal with "only" $700k to put down?
You laid out the path. You start with one deal that you find nights and weekends. Take 30 min - 1 hr of your work day. Jump into a conference room to talk with brokers. Send offers. Get it under contract. Raise friends and fam money. Prove the business. Execute the deal. Sell or refi. Now go do it again. Go a little bigger this time.
Alternatively, take your $700K. Do a small multifamily deal. Do it nights and weekend. Self management. Now you have a case study. Go bigger and sell it to investors.
Feel like most sponsors started with less cash than $700K lol. Part of being an entrepreneur is knowing how to make the most out of limited capital.
Correct. This person is insane, classic WSO mentality.
Another point is that it's very much more possible to hit home run deals at the smaller check size level. The lack of institutional competition for those deals means you can still unbury some interesting stuff. I've heard of guys finding such good off-market deals when they started at the $10m purchase price level that they ended up making high 6 figure / low 7 figure promote checks on them in just a couple years even in today's market
This 1000%
Do your first deal (or several) without quitting your FT job. That way you can be patient for the right opportunity. If you quit first without anything lined up you could get desperate to do a deal and start off on the wrong foot.
Commenting on on statement you made -
"I'd love to just own my own RE and not answer to investors, but I glossed over that possibility because it's not a thing when you only have $700k to put down."
You should be aware there isn't likely to ever be a spot where you "aren't answering" to [investors]. You're going to have to be someone's bitch, either way. Whether it's your lender, your tenants, your capital partners, the government, planning board, contractors - you think just because you have no partners, you are going to be able to pay someone to do a job for you and treat them however you want, and have them do good work?
You have to treat everyone the same way as you would an "investor" and you truly are beholden to anyone you objectively "need" something from - should get used to it because just having enough money to not have an LP partner isn't going to magically make you be able to walk around town doing whatever you want.
Agreed, but my point with that wasn't to complain about having to answer to someone. It was about having to answer to investors specifically. I don't like to fundraise and I prefer to be the sole equity in a deal. I'd prefer not to be responsible for someone else's money.
I'm not entirely sure where my train of thought there comes from, because you can view equity similarly to how you view debt, and I don't have the same reluctance to work with lenders.
I guess the essence of it, for me, is that catering to an equity partner isn't worth the squeeze compared to abiding by lender compliance or being obligated to deal with the government. Even if a promote check and fees are part of the equation - those are taken out of necessity.
You are in an awesome spot with no spouse and no dependents. Assuming you are healthy, you can push your spend to nothing. That is what it will require at the start.
You need to pick a sector (MF, industrial, office, whatever) and you need to pick a location. Something small enough where you can track and know every listing that is on the market and everything that has sold in the last 12 months. You need to know that market cold. Like someone mentions the vague location and building color and you know the listing cold. Once you have that you start canvassing owners. You call them and tell them you want to buy their property and convince them you can close. You wait until you find a property that you KNOW is a good deal. You know this because you know everything that has sold in the last 12 months. Your proforma UYOC needs to be over 10% if it is MF/Industrial/Strip center and over 15% if it is office. Then do whatever you have to do to close that sucker. That means meetings with every rich friends parent you can think of. Meeting with every community bank you can get one with. You go out there and tell your story over and over and over again until someone says yes. Then after they say yes you make sure you devote your life to making sure that deal performs. I am 8 years in and I still don't think I can materially fuck up a deal without it really damaging my future prospects. Returns trump all and getting it right on the first few deals is all that matters.
This is super helpful, thank you. There are some small actionable steps I can take here to start things off. I didn't think about my investment thesis (asset type, location... risk profile is a given - at this stage I need to go big or go home), so I can at least start crafting that and honing it in to find where my conviction lies because that's what will sell the deal to investors.
Like you said, once I know what I'm targeting I need to start tracking where deals are trading at in my market segment. That'll give me a benchmark for quickly evaluating deals and should also serve to help me pitch a purchase to would-be sellers.
Curious about the return metric guidelines you gave - why a minimum 10% UYOC? Are you backing into that percentage based on your desired spread over an expected exit cap on a ~$5m ind/mf/strip asset? I imagine these types of properties trade at a 7-9% exit cap and in today's market you might want a bit more cushion, so call it a 225-275 bps spread. Or did you get that 10% by figuring for a small/early deal, you want to at least beat something like the S&P on an unlevered basis, and you have downside protection/upside with rent escalations and potential leverage? Just trying to see what your rationale is because generally I totally agree that it can't be a thin margin deal - it basically has to be a homerun from the start.
Finally, I'm just curious if you could share what type of markets and asset types you're looking at/are excited about. I've learned over my short career that you're never more than 5 or so years from any one of today's asset classes falling into or out of favor, so it's all kind of game. Just depends on your conviction (and basis ;)). Oh and if you could share any resources like specific books, articles, podcasts, etc. that you think could be applicable for where I'm at in these early thinking stages, that would be appreciated.
Thanks again for the insight!
Yeah, what you really want is minimum 300bps spread between your proforma Unlevered yield on cost and the market cap rate. Basically take you purchase price + closing costs + any costs to reposition the asset and then divide that number by your projected NOI.
PP 10m + 100k cc + 2m reposition. Projected NOI 1.3m. 1,300,000/12,100,000=.1074 or 10.7% UYOC.
This is going to give you the cushion you need, because you will mess something up.
I have never read “real estate” specific books. Twitter was a good resource at the beginning, Moses Kagan and some others that posted regularly 6 or 7 years ago always had thoughtful content that I found helpful (I am not on Twitter now).
How to think about building my business was the big thing for me. Do I want to churn deals? Do I want to buy assets and hold them? What are my skills now? What skills do I want to build? What do I want life to look like in 20yrs? Answering these questions will help guide your strategy.
Start with one go from there. Once you build up the history within in, its easier to grow your portfolio to the next guy. One successful deal can open you to dozens of new ones.
PM’d you
I think people on here too often get hung up on “going out on your own.” They think one day they just wake up, raise a fund, acquire 10 deals, and quit their job. Rome wasn’t built in a day. It takes years and I think the idea that it takes years of hard work to finally get to a point where you can quit your job is very demoralizing. People on here need to adjust their expectations. Your goal is not to raise a fund, build an empire, and take over the world. Your goal is simply to generate income outside of your W2. That is it. I guarantee Steve Ross didn’t wake up one day and say “I’m going to be one of the largest developers in the world.” He just wanted to make a living outside of a W2 and just focused on one opportunity at a time and after 100 “one opportunities at a time” he built Related.
So I don’t think you need to build out this whole elaborate plan on how you’re going to invest your entire $700k in such a way that it leads to financial freedom. Just find one good investment, make some money, and do it again. I would recommend starting with your own property to mitigate your risk. I don’t know your market, but if I were starting off, I would look to buy a duplex or triplex and live in one unit while renting out the others. Now depending on your skill set and how much time you have, you may look into acquiring a property that needs some cosmetic work where you can add value and boost rents through a renovation. If that is outside your scope of capabilities, then look for a duplex or triplex that is in move in condition where the economics of the deal leave you better off than renting I.e the rents offset a significant portion of your mortgage and opex. Maybe live there for 2 years to capture some appreciation and sell with your gains being tax free. Obviously the more work and value add you put in, the more profit you can hope to make. I would rinse and repeat this every 1-3 years depending on your situation and financial status. If it were me, I would do it every year. The goal is to eventually reach a point where you have the capabilities and balance sheet to acquire and renovate 2-3 properties where you can “flip” one out to recycle capital and hold 1 as fixed income. You want to eventually generate enough fixed income where it covers your basic costs of living and now you can continue working at your W2 knowing that you can quit whenever you like or you can quit and pursue these renovations full time and pursue larger deals. Maybe one day you get big enough to become the next Related or maybe you just have a portfolio of duplexes and triplexes that generates enough income to support your family and retire off of. Either way, I think it’s a win
Agree with a lot of this except start with a duplex. That won't really translate to investors as a track record unless you're buying another duplex or something a touch bigger.
If you have the experience and can convince investors of it, you can always bring in a cogp. I would focus on larger deals where you can bring in a cogp as it will help to scale. A duplex will take more time than you think and I'd start larger (again, only if you think you can run the deal on your own.)
700k is PLENTY of money to go off on your own. Started off with a third of that.
Depends on your market. Duplexes in my area are worth $1mm-$2.5mm. I'm in a HCOL so $700k really isn't that much. My strategy is also more focused on being a sole operator with no investors.
You started off with $150-200k? That's pretty impressive. How long ago? What deals did you pursue? Where are you now?
Thanks for the insight. Just to be clear I'm not one to follow the FIRE path. I like to work and I'm not trying to replace my W2 income with something "passive". I just want to build something. And although I'm eager, I understand that can take time, as it probably should.
I guess the hesitation I have isn't doing everything at once, it's more so taking the leap. Here's some background. I handled the acquisition and property management for several SFR's and duplexes that my family owns. They aren't real estate people, they're just white collar professionals who had extra cash on hand. And I fell headfirst into RE because of it. These properties are basically mine in all facets except in title and all cash flow goes to them lol. But because of this experience I feel like I can skip your standard "live-in duplex" starter pack. As someone mentioned in a response to you, duplexes typically won't transfer to a broader investor base. But more than that for me is that I want to build more scale and see more of a competitive advantage in commercial or larger MF assets because it aligns better with my work experience, and they're more fun.
So my hesitation is jumping from a 2,500 SF duplex as my largest property to now owning/managing an industrial building or retail center or 10 unit apt complex. I feel that my work experience managing $50-150m Class A industrial or 200 unit apartments goes to waste or at least atrophies if I "scale up" to a 5 or even 10 unit apartment building. So I think my issue is making the leap to something appropriate for where I'm at, not going too shallow and not going off the deep-end.
I don't know - maybe a triplex is still the right balance but I'm trying to figure that out. I think crafting my personal investment thesis as one poster mentioned, will help in this discovery
Edit: No shade on townhomes or triplexes! I know you as the cool HCOL townhome developer guy who's been killing it.
I understand, however I still think you may be missing my point. The goal is to make money without taking on too much risk. The primary difference between owning a duplex/triplex and 10 units is just having the money to acquire a 10 unit asset. Furthermore, as someone above mentioned, at smaller scales, you can hit much higher returns than larger assets. The larger the property, the more competitive it is. Assuming you have the knowledge and capabilities, the only main difference between you doing duplexes/triplexes and ~50 unit buildings, is money. Now you can either 1.) raise this money 2.) accumulate it yourself or 3.) build a track record of success by doing a couple duplex/triplexes and then raising some capital from friends and family to pursue larger assets. I would say that if you are determined to grow quickly by raising capital, then option 3 is best. People, including friends and family, will trust you a lot more when you have actually invest your own capital, signed guarantees, and successfully executed a project. Perhaps the path is to do a couple duplexes/triplexes and then raising money from friends and family to acquire a 10 unit building. However, just keep in mind that larger doesn't necessarily mean better returns, but it almost always means more risk just by nature of the higher dollar amounts your playing with.
I've provided this before, but I will give you a couple examples of successful RE investors/developers that started on their own with basically nothing
1.) My dad. He started with single family developments and eventually grew into townhouse developments. Now with me on board, we have expanded our scale anywhere from 6-20 units. Now how did we make this jump? Yes, we obtained more knowledge when I worked for a midsize developer who operates in the sub 50 unit space, but the primary difference is money. We did some pretty nice deals, which increased our investable capital and were then able to pursue larger assets/projects.
2.) My ex-boss/owner of the midsize developer I used to work for. He started with triplexes. Now he does anything from triplexes to ~50 unit buildings. He also has an acre of land that he will eventually be able to develop a ~20 story apartment building. Again, the primary hurdle between him developing 30 units and 300 units is capital.
3.) Another well-known midsize developer in my city. He started as a brokerage, then started acquiring duplexes, triplexes, and doing townhouse projects. Eventually he accumulated enough capital to pursue 10-50 unit developments/investments, and now he is pursuing life science developments, 6 story 300 unit developments, and now he is even competing with the big boys like Tishman/Greystar and developing 20 story apartment buildings. How did he scale? More money.
4.) A fast growing developer in my city. He bought his first triplex in 2013 when he was 25. Did a couple triplex condo conversions and eventually partnered with a midsized LP to pursue 6-9 unit condo conversions. From there he scaled to 20-50 unit developments and now he has 6 projects going on ranging from 100-600 units each. Dude is only fucking 37 and started at 25. Incredible growth
Notice how they all started with triplexes. None of these investors/developers planned to be where they are today. They were all just trying to make a living outside of a W2 and through hardwork, obsession for real estate, and some luck, they got to where they are now.
I can also provide you background of the founder of the institutional firm i used to work for. The founder actually wanted to be a politician and started off working for the city. He eventually became the head of urban planning and was eventually poached by Tishman as an MD. He left after the 08 crisis to start his own company and even for him it was tough. Despite his background, no one trusted him enough to invest in him. Granted, liquidity was dried up due to the financial crisis, but he had to start as a development consultant essentially. Once he proved that he could get projects approved that other developers failed to do through his political connections, that's when he started growing and doing his own developments. But in my opinion, I'd much rather be one of the guys that I listed above because they are doing their own deals from day 1 rather than working for corporate for 20 years first.
The "live in a duplex" starter pack is given for a reason. It is the BEST way to to access debt. Nothing else even comes close unless you get someone else to put up all of the equity and sign for the debt. The "skills" don't change if it is a SFR vs a 2M sqft office building. The networks and clients change but the structural work of the business is exactly the same.
There is a reason why this pathway works, it is becuase the government has set it up specifically to work.
Always remember that on WSO, "going out on your own" doesn't mean spending 20 or 30 years building a portfolio and a reputation and a fair bit of wealth. It means raising a 9 figure fund and earning a 9 figure net worth within five years.
This site has a massively warped view of what real success looks like, and what it takes to get there.
I agree, but I also get it. This site is mostly made of college students and fresh grads, so everyone has really big dreams. I definitely had the same aspirations when I was in college, but after working and really learning how difficult making money really is and how easy losing money is, I'm happy to just create a portfolio of sub-50 units properties (realistically closer to sub-10 unit properties). I've also realized that once I've hit a financial position where I can cover all my expenses and not worry about money, I actually don't care that much about making a lot of money. I used to have a timeline and how fast i wanted to grow, but now my mentality is more so, if there is a good deal that doesn't require much risk, then I'll do it. If not, then I just wait. If I can make a comfortable living with low stress, what's the point of betting the farm.
I am in the same boat but I cant let this next cycle get ahead of me so looking to start with 3 deals on thelarger side with less value to be created outside of small move in rents on turnover but mainly letting the basis and conservative leverage do the heavy lifting.
dilemma i had around targeting IRR % vs. $ dollars of equity created and decided that I would rather create $5-6m of equity on a 20M deal with lower op risk/execution risk, compared to higher IRR deal with 2-3m of equity created in a heavy lift high exectuion risk deal. does that resonate with experienced investors? cant take %s to the bank
Interesting thought but after thinking through, I'm not really understanding the differentiator in startegy here... isn't "just doing bigger deals" putting the cart before the horse?
Sure you can make a lot of dollars and take a lot of risk out of the equation by being a low-leverage, core asset buyer but that requires more equity or a longer hold period, and typically both, all else being equal.
You can focus on nominal return. But apples-to-apples on equity, the only way you're making more nominally on a low-leverage, low execution risk deal (core) is if you hold longer. Apples-to-apples on hold period, you're gonna need more equity.
What am I missing here?
The most efficient way to do this is to start one deal at a time. Start with setting up one deal on your own as a "side gig." Then do another. Then another. Once you get a track record (which could reasonably take ~5 years), then you will be in a much better position to get outside money and go full time on your own (assuming you have a halfway decent track record).
You could also look to buy a small developer. This is much harder to do, but if you are looking for an "all-in-one" type solution, this may be worth looking into. This is basically what I am in the process of doing except on the residential real estate side (where it is probably much easier to do)
May I ask how do you get in front of rich friends' parents? I have some of those as well and I believe the first step is to actually convince those rich kids who might have cash to fund your projects? I am pondering a similar move where I fundraise and trade independently on the public markets.
There is no easy answer here. At some point, you have to be “adult” enough for your friends parents to see you as an adult, not the kid their kid was buddies with growing up. This can be difficult because while you can arguably control a lot about how you present yourself, some parents struggle to see their own adult children as adults, let alone the friend who their son blamed for all of the trouble the two of you got into when you were teenagers (like you blamed him to your parents).
You may also have to play the game where your friend’s condescending dad wants to “help you out” and “teach you how business works” while you know your business more than they do and they’re mostly a past their prime boomer who earned wealth because they were lucky with market timing, not because they’re some entrepreneurial genius.
It’s all sales. You have to find a way to sell yourself one way or another.
You should go right to the parents, not through your friend. It could take several meetings to convince them that you are someone worth trusting, and it also may never happen. The way I positioned it was always that I was solving a problem. Hey, you have money and I have this business plan. I would like to share it with you, and if it is not a fit, that is totally ok, but if it is, I would like to bring these opportunities to you when they come up. I am looking at this asset type in this location and I am going to try to buy for around X and then I am going to do Y (reposition, ride rent growth, etc) and then it will be worth Z and we will make $.
It doesn't matter if you're talking to the guy who just won the powerball or steve schwarzman, if you intend to do this as a career you are going to be pitching yourself the rest of your life.
thank you both !
You have the money and the know-how; start small and establish a reputation.
jfc. i left a buyside real estate job with 90k to my name, only 15k of which went into any given deal. that was several years ago and i'm still doing deals. you don't need $700,000.
what was the structure? did you bring in other equity investors or did you just target small deals?
I raised pursuit money from multiple people. Then got the deal rolling... then found a capital partner.
What was your first deal? Asset class and size? How did you structure it?
I think the typical math would look like this, scale appropriately.
$10,000,000 deal
1% acq fee that you invest into the deal
$100,000 of your own money
Cash on cash yield of 8.0%
You'd only be making $16,000 per year personally, so you're really banking on terminal value/promote to make it worthwhile.
Good point about rolling your acq fee. Great way to sidestep ordinary income tax.
And yeah, your equity stake isn't going to make a lot, and an AM fee of 1 or even 2% on invested capital might be at most $80k a year and yes, terminal value/promote is when you make your money. So this ties to one of the big questions I was getting at - how does a GP support themselves year to year? Are they living off of equity made in the last deal (like being comission based)? I guess it's true that GP's live deal to deal until they're at large enough scale (several $100m-$1b AUM) huh? Any GP's do something else creative/extra to bridge the gap? Any special payment structures/side gigs? I believe a lot of firms do in-house PM for the fees just to start off.
By the way, how'd you figure a $16k/year return on a 8% CoC and $100k acq fee roll/in? Are you assuming 80% leverage ($2m equity), 5% GP fee ($100k equity) + the acq fee for a $200k total equity stake?
Much harder in multifamily but you keep the lights on with leasing commissions. As the GP, do renewal leases in house. Than keep the leasing commission. That is how many GPs keep the lights on. While the revenue is sporadic, chunky, and success based, it is big enough to pay for the year and keep you going.
FYI - rolling an acquisition fee into a deal as equity is treated as taxable income in that year.
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