Best Non-Wharton/Stern Schools for BB Investment Banking
Hey everyone,
I'm a senior in HS at the moment and have to apply to colleges asap. I've already done a few apps, but I need suggestions for schools outside of Wharton/Stern/Ross. Not to pull a cliche, but a front office BB IB stint out of college is the goal here!
What do you guys think about Stevens (I can tell they have a hard on to develop their QF program, and tons of the graduates get risk-management jobs at GS. What are the chances that a Stevens grad could get a FO job at GS?)
How about the Rutgers Honors program? Close to the city + tons of connections, I guess?
Regardless of acceptance rate,** please give me some ideas **of what could help me get the job/experience! Any target schools outside of the typical Wharton/Stern/Ross would be really appreciated! Thanks a ton
Mediumrare_
Pm me if you wanna check out a hs finance resume
UVA places extremely well
George Mason university.
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Yeah hustle is definitely important! Are these front office jobs at the banks?
Yes. These are Investment Banking jobs. A lot of S&T too, which was the more popular route for the upcoming summer.
You can land IB with top 25 university if you hustle, granted easier it gets the higher the rank (barring some exceptions)
Who do u think will get the job (FO GS, for example)? A kid thats near the top 5-10% of #25 on that list, or the kid thats in the top 1/3 @ Wharton?
The hardest part is landing the interview once you land the interview its all up to you. Doesn't matter if ur top 1/3 of Wharton or top 1% of a top 25 school.
If you go to a top 25 school, network hard to make sure you land those interviews. Its easier to land interviews the higher the rank of the school (sort of).
Our school semi-target, is sending almost 30+ kids to NYC IB this year. We have at least one going to every EB (PJT, CVP, PWP, Lazard, Evercore) and almost every BB covered so its safe to say it doesn't matter at that point.
UVA UVA UVA UVA UVA UVA UVA have 50+ friends there in the business school (my hs sent 100+ to it every year), and it places lights out in everything nowadays- IB, consulting, you name it
have a friend who placed into McKinsey SF, Moelis IB, GS IB, etc etc
any placement is possible from McIntire nowadays if you're willing to put in the work, join the appropriate student funds, and network
Uva sucks
your last post was george mason university lmao
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UVA sounds great! Would like to stay close to NYC tho... Philly/Boston would be the limit
Boston College / Villanova
Just got an offer from their MS Commerce...seems to be a good choice.
their MS has slightly worse placements but iirc its still good
Cornell
How are the internships for a school thats 4hrs away from NYC? Does location in this case play a major role?
A: You are not going to go to university at the same time as your internship in NYC, so it shouldn't matter. B: Most of the best universities in the US aren't in NYC (except Columbia and maybe West Point), and many aren't in cities at all. Dartmouth for example is great, but in the middle of nowhere. Forget about location, well at least in terms of getting a job-wise.
If you're a senior in HS and still putting together your applications three days before Christmas, you are a bit behind for a lot of schools. If this is a legit post and not trolling, I'd suggest targeting the best overall schools that have rolling admission (I'm years removed from the process, so I have no idea what schools are rolling at the moment, but Google should help here). You want to take time and care in putting your apps together.
Well I've been putting my apps together for the last 3 years ... However, Im thinking of adding more schools to my list outside of the obvious (Stern, Wharton, etc). The only thing standing between me and an application to another college is a $75 fee and a 500 word supplement, so I should be ok.
Baruch's B school for undergrad's fantastic.
Its no Wharton, but it'll get you places. Join a business frat there, and don't fuck up your GPA. Network, network, network.
FO BB @ Baruch? What are the chances?
lots of bad advice here. if you don't go to a target/semi-target, it's going to be a MAJOR uphill battle to get a job in BB IB. schools like rutgers, baruch, indiana (if not in the ib workshop) are not targets.
stick to top 25 schools as one of the other posters said if you have the grades to get in. if not, go to a non top 25 school, get a 3.9+ and transfer to a top 25.
Agree with this.
Given your HS profile, how competitive are you going to be for top schools? Places like IU/Rutgers aren't terrible if those are your only option, but if you really want to maximize for getting into IB then the general order would probably be
Ivy(HYPS) -->Top Private/LAC(Duke, Georgetown, Williams, Amherst)-->Top Public(Michigan, UVA) --> Public
In general, state school honors programs aren't that useful for getting into IB. For example in general Rutgers honors would get crushed by an average Cornell applicant in terms of chances to get into FO IB.
I'd look at your stats and total application profile
Look at the list of top 25 Public/Private schools and figure out where you could reasonably get in (applying to Wharton with a middling GPA and SAT won't even be worth the time)
Go to the websites/use admissions calculators/talk to an advisor for a 2nd opinion, sometimes it not always about the numbers. If you're a URM or have great extracurriculars those can help
Create a list of ~8-10 schools with 3 reach schools, 3-4 good fits, 3-4 safeties
See where that gets you. If you don't get in anywhere good, I'd take whatever offer is best and then work to transfer after 1 year.
Thx for the feedback. My stats r pretty good and I think that I have a decent chance to get into good schools. My safety's r Fordham Rutgers Boston C and Stevens. reach would b Penn, Ross, Stern, Georgetown, Cornell.
Thx MediumRare_
How about being near the top of a non-target? Does this give you more I guess of an advantage? What I'm saying is, doesn't everyone @ Wharton have great networking skills, 3.7+ GPA, finance extracurriculars, etc? Who's getting the FO BB? So, does it make you stand out if you're the smartass in a crowd of more or less morons (sorry for the lack of pc'ness lol)
not really since each bank might take say 5-10 wharton kids and a non target will get 0-2 kids total into BB IB
Ut Austin USC Claremont Georgetown Duke Emory All Ivy's Georgetown Rice Ahmerst Williams UVA CMU Boston College
Thx, will take a look. How does Fordham sound?
Add in the chi schools as well, U chicago/Northwestern
Add UMich Ross, IU Kelley, UChicago, and any NESCAC and that’s a good list
In all honesty it's quite possible to get FT IB roles from even most state schools. My biggest piece of advice would be regardless of where you end up, if the university has a "xx Fund" of sorts (most universities with decent business school funding have things such as the "Drexel Dragon Fund", "Nittany Lion Fund", etc), make sure you do whatever you can to be a part of it. Most of them have upwards of 95%+ placement into top firms for anything from S&T to IB.
Having said that I will concede that a top 25 university will give you an inherent edge. At the end of the day if you put in the work you'll get the results you're looking for, but its nice to have your university's name open the first few doors with minimal effort.
I've asked this of other ppl who've said the same thing — being near the top @ Rutgers business vs. being the top 1/3rd at Wharton/Stern? Who's getting the job? How the hell do you stand out at a school like Wharton?
It's not about being the top at whatever school you're at, get your head out of your ass.. your networking/GPA is what is gonna get the first pair of eyes. If after that you do well in the interviews, they're not gonna be considering you vs. the other candidates based on your ranking at Wharton vs. Stern; it's about FIT at that point.
Stop thinking about top 1/3 at Wharton or top 5% at a non-target.. you already have the wrong mindset
It's do-able from just about any school though. Your life and options paired with on-campus recruiting and alumni resources will be far better at a larger, well known school. That being said, going to a say Kelley (IU) or Smeal (PSU) can be solid. More competition (I'd imagine). Going to a NESCAC like Williams or Hamilton also might be solid and while they're "non-targets," plenty of people know them and there's enough of a Wall St. presence.
Point is: it doesn't ENTIRELY matter where you go. It only does necessarily if you let it matter. Your life in recruiting may be easier at an Ivy naturally, but that doesn't mean the kid from some tiny liberal arts school or Rutgers can make it to the same bank (just with far more effort).
Thx! Fair to say that the top 1/3 @ Wharton/Stern all get BB FO jobs? Fair to say that the top 5% of the non-target, but still really good finance programs get the BB FO jobs?
whats the point in asking? go to the best school u can to make life easier for yourself
Companies look at a lot more than your grades or where you went to school.
Target schools just means that companies recruit there meaning applications are open to only students at those schools or at least high priority is given to them.
First you'll want to be at a target school SSO they Will at least look at your resume. Then you'll need to pass the first screening process , grades , internships/experience, demonstrations of overcoming adversity, impressive accomplishments both academic and otherwise. After you beat the competition there you may get an interview. You'll then need to impress them with your knowledge, considering your level of exposure/exp , your communication skills , your ppl skills and even things like your humor.
Its not just oh I went Wharton and I was top 5% where do I sign
Have you considered Dartmouth?
Yea, have it on my list. Idk if Ill apply though its rly far from NYC.
The alumni network is really strong for Dartmouth. Even though it's in New Hampshire. Although, I get what you mean by being close to NYC.
Nope.
Assuming all other things being equal between schools, there's three main ways the school can help you.
1: "Preftige". Pretty self explanatory. Tier 1 BB's generally are classist and like people with sufficient prestige to work at their firm. This one is significantly more important if you want to work at a megafund, where sometimes even having gone to H/S/P isn't enough and they'll check to see if you went to a sufficiently prestigious prep school.
2: Direct access via OCR. Tends to overlap with #1.
3: Geographic proximity. There's a hue amount to be said for a school that's located right in the city you want to work, as the ability to meet up with contacts over lunch and hang out with them on the weekends gives you a leg up in a way that's difficult to overstate. If you're a strong hustler #3 is probably going to be more important than #1 and #2.
Schools w/ more prestige like Penn/NYU/UM/etc. obviously have more competition. How big of a factor does the small fish/ocean vs. big fish/pond play a role here? Is, regardless of how u compare to classmates @ stern or Wharton, having good communication skills, stellar gpa, etc. give you a rly good chance at an interview or offer. Also, how would u compare the college admissions process to getting a rly competitive (BB IB) job? Totally different or similar?
prestige over everything. and IB is much more competitive than getting into college. 2 percent of kids who want IB get it. 95 percent of kids who want to get into college do.
Why do you keep asking this question? Would you seriously take Rutgers over Wharton because you think you would be able to stand out more? Get into the schools first.
THANKS FOR EVERYONE's REPLIES. Correct me if I'm wrong, heres what I've understood so far:
-- "Prestige over everything"
-- Just going to a top school doesn't guarantee a spot, but u have to combine this w/ a stellar GPA, ECs, networking, communication skills, technical skills, etc.
-- Even if you're at the very top at a school like Rutgers, its an uphill battle to get a FO BB IB job unless they have OCR. Banks would much rather take someone (w/ a slightly worse profile) from a target than a non-target?
Sounds about right. Best of luck to you
Thanks a ton!
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Georgetown's on my list!
Berkeley-Haas is a top target in the west coast and is a semi-target in the east coast. However, you would have to apply to Haas ur sophomore year at Berkeley, and it is getting more and more difficult to get in. the exact acceptance rate is around 25%, which may sound easy at first, but the applicants tend to be very competitive and cutthroat.
That being said, Berkeley's econ program is still top and the avg salary right after graduation is similar to Haas and tons of people get into BBs.
I visited Berkeley a year ago and had two major issues w/ it. First, I would prefer to stay on the EC for a few reasons. Second, Berkeley had almost 0 info on Haas during the info sessions, tours, etc. (the website is the only resource). However, I found out about the 2 year thing and frankly I'd rather not spend two years at a school not knowing if I will actually be able to do what I came there for. But thx for the suggestion anyways!
Sure np, the 2 year thing is definitely a valid concern if you're 100% set on business. The main reason I chose Berkeley over some low-tier ivys (i got rejected from HYPS) was cause I'm perfectly fine with doing econ/computer science instead of business.
If u want to stay on the EC, I recommend Georgetown (underrated), Cornell (definitely visit before going tho), UChicago, Duke, and the top ivies, but I personally would discourage you from applying to NYU Stern just cause you prob won't have a good college life there. And it's fkin expensive.
Damn people are really shitting on Baruch. Do you guys think its that bad of a school? They are climbing the ranks, gotta give them that at least lol
Is there BB IB OCR @ Baruch for FO jobs?
Absolutely, hopefully I dont get monkey shit for this but there are about 3-4 BBs (BB that recruit only like 5 or so kids each for these highly coveted spots). Usually are JPM/BAML/BARCLAYS/MS every two years or so. There are strong MMs like HL/Stifel/Cantor Fitzgerald. They are usually for regional New York offices so you are limited there. A shame because Credit Suisse is literally by the campus and they never come by to tap talent. But anyway, you can use it as a safety if you choose to have NYU/Columbia......then your other NYC school as a fallback. Like others mentioned go on Linkedin and reach out to see if alumn would guide you to the right direction and go through each bank and their employment start dates. Whether or not you choose to go, they will respct the fact that you are doing your research. Reach out through PM if you have any further questions. Goodluck!
Georgetown McDonough has placement every year at every bank on Wall Street, BB and EB. The alumni network in finance is huge and definitely helps a ton in New York. It’s a fantastic network to have and is represented at megafunds as well, allowing you to get Carlyle and Blackstone interviews, which I have seen first-hand.
I'm applying to Georgetown. However, I will most likely not get in since they require 3 SAT II tests (one of the only schools w/ this requirement) but I only have 1. We'll see what happens, thanks!
Any school as long as you work hard enough and can cold-call til you drop. Can't go wrong with ivies though
Do you know any good resources for cold calling and networking? Thx
There's no definitive list because it depends on geography. What worked for me was by going on Google Maps and searching for generic finance terms such as "bank" and "finance" or "capital." Then, a bunch of different firms would pop up and would be good candidates to call or email. Eventually, you find the needle in the haystack.
cornell, georgetown, duke, and chicago are absolute target schools for east coast recruiting, though chicago tends to be more regional focused. northwestern is good for consulting.
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