Can someone help me with budgeting? 170k as a 22 year old is absurd to me.

Luckily just signed my FT offer. I have a base pay that is above street, with a nice ass signing, aswell with a hefty performance bonus. All In comp will range from 170-200k as a first year analyst. I understand taxes will rob me. 

Can anyone help with what they did with their money as a first year analyst? Things to keep in mind is I will fortunately and luckily have no student loans/debt at all. I also will be located in Manhattan, NYC

How much did you invest? How much did you save? How much did you spend on rent per month in Manhattan? How much did you allocate towards groceries? Utilities? How much did you allocate to dumb shit (buying cool things to celebrate) How much on drinks/restaurants/going out?

Thank you. 

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Comments (124)

Funniest
  • VP in IB-M&A
Oct 25, 2021 - 3:54pm

Analyst comp is practically below the poverty line in NYC, you will not need to worry about saving vs. investing I guarantee. Question is whether you go into credit card debt to fund your lifestyle before the first bonus hits. I feel like most of my analysts spend $2k/month on rent or so

Edit: damn, a lot of bottom bucket snowflakes taking this literally. Keep the monkey shit coming fellas IDGAF

Controversial
Oct 25, 2021 - 4:52pm

Assuming we are talking about the current first-year Analyst base salary of $100,000/year, that is most definitely not below the poverty line, even in NYC.

You do not NEED to spend $2k/month on rent, especially as an analyst. Find roommates.

This comment is wildly out of touch.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 25, 2021 - 7:43pm

I think it's also out of touch to assume that Analysts have to penny pinch and get roommates in some shitty 2br than spend the 2k for something passable c'mon get real the last thing you need after grinding through weeks is being in a shitty place or being some place your not comfortable.

  • Associate 2 in PE - Other
Oct 25, 2021 - 5:09pm

Manhattan median household income is like $65k… yes, the city's expensive and those people have it rough, but being 22 making 3x the median with work paying most of your food and transportation costs is extraordinarily comfortable. You're not gonna put kids through private school, but you'll take home more after taxes and rent than any of your college buddies around the country other than those in a few comparable fields

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Most Helpful
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 25, 2021 - 3:55pm

Here's the TRUTH:

You're a guy who works an above average corporate job. Few years in and you have 6-figures saved across your 401k, index funds, etc. You do your calculations....7-figures in 40 years!! If you're lucky, you'll get that sweet 10% return this year. You pat yourself on the back for being so smart with your money!

In all seriousness I'm going to tell you starry eyed young guy the truth they WON'T tell you. First off, it's not that much in Manhattan imo but everyone knows that already. You should max out the Roth IRA and traditional 401k easily. BUT, within Roth do 3x TQQQ or UPRO (QLD and SSO for lower volatility 2x components if you really want), then open up taxable brokerage and put as much as possible into the same levered ETFs. Do not fucking buy normal SPY and wait your whole fucking life for this bullshit I promise you. AT LEAST crypto if you don't want the levered assets. Also, you already have exposure to the vanilla boring ETFs through your 401k anyway.

Don't listen to the fools on this forum who want you slaving away the rest of your life. Being a millionaire at 60 with hip problems and knee problems because you sat in a chair for 12 hours a day and forever lost youth is the future they dangle in front of you like a golden carrot. Even worse, the never-ending next gig, promotion, "investor role with interesting operating experience" they'll have you chase. All lies. 

You are excited now, but won't be for long I promise you that. You need financial freedom to be a healthy and happy individual. Humans were not designed to spend long hours indoors in front of computer screens and worst of all in the sitting position. There will be people in here who will come and tell you they are healthy and happy working 60+ hours a week...they are NOT. If you are getting less than 7 hours of sleep a night YOU ARE UNHEALTHY period. There is no exception to this rule. I don't care how great your body is or how many gallons of coffee you chug down your system.  

You're going to be old one day and look back on your life. You will regret the risks and shots you DIDN'T take. The crazy experiences you had. Not that you played it safe and became a comfortable millionaire with gray hair. Go forth and block the noise on this forum. There are few people here who legitimately understand the modern world now and how it operates. The one's who realize that thousands of kids are making an MDs whole year's salary they slaved away for in one month flipping NFTs. They'll tell themselves "oh, that's just a small group of lucky people, like winning the lottery!" Don't fall down that rabbit hole. Seize life by the balls and take it.   

Oct 26, 2021 - 9:40am

I'm in this exact position. Started work a few months ago and making same as OP. I'm likely leaving my job. It's not worth it.

I look at the people years ahead of me and realized I would never want to become them. They have sold their lives and souls for a portion of incremental income that is taxed at a high marginal rate anyway. They are divorced from Nature and will pay the price.

$170k in NYC is NOTHING. After tax and rent, you may clear $75k in the bank. But that assumes you never go out or spend a dime. Anyone who says it's a lot is just content with serfdom.

You are not a serf!

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 26, 2021 - 10:09am

Good on you brother. You are not a serf indeed, You're a damn human that needs physical activity, nature, and sunlight to function. Don't fall for the trap and the rat race. Godspeed.

Oct 29, 2021 - 3:32pm

mitchrapp1

I'm in this exact position. Started work a few months ago and making same as OP. I'm likely leaving my job. It's not worth it.

I look at the people years ahead of me and realized I would never want to become them. They have sold their lives and souls for a portion of incremental income that is taxed at a high marginal rate anyway. They are divorced from Nature and will pay the price.

$170k in NYC is NOTHING. After tax and rent, you may clear $75k in the bank. But that assumes you never go out or spend a dime. Anyone who says it's a lot is just content with serfdom.

You are not a serf!

Finally, we have a winner! I wish more people could open their eyes and work towards getting out of the matrix. One of the best ways to preserve and grow your wealth is understanding the tax codes and making them work to your advantage. That way you do not have a death sentence if having to work for someone else forever.

SafariJoe, wins again!
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 26, 2021 - 1:10pm

No, the point is someone who is 65 and has lived in the PAST WORLD. Is not equipped to successfully navigate the modern world. 

Oct 26, 2021 - 1:35pm

I completely agree with the majority of what you said, but.....is it not statistically true that holding TQQQ over time has an expected return of 0? Holding through all drawdowns and still expecting to come on top?? I understand trading TQQQ short-term and making some good money here and there, but personally I'm not sure if holding a leveraged ETF for the long-term is smart. Again, I agree with taking risks to get rich much earlier in life, but I think these should be informed risks, not essentially gambling your money away. Being a rich 60 year old with graying hair and back problems is still better than being 30 years old and homeless.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 26, 2021 - 2:04pm

1. You won't go homeless from buying TQQQ. You'll have bigger problems beyond fiat currency if the market goes bust that bad.

2. You can DCA into TQQQ and most importantly have a cash buffer to buy heavy during large downturns. Impossible to lose that way, seriously

3. You can just buy QLD (2x levered QQQ instead of 3x) or SSO for 2x SPY if you're really conservative and hold long term you are fine. Combine that with buying more during downturns, mathematically can't lose

4. if you really want to use your time for something, you could just buy and sell based on the 200 MA for SPY if it's above/below. Would have avoided all major crashes of the last 40 years

Oct 26, 2021 - 3:58pm

Please do not put a large percentage of your NW into TQQQ. Yes, you might hit it big, but it is a very risky investment. Taking a small percentage of your investments and putting it into "risky" assets (levered ETFs, crypto, etc.) is fine.

In terms of budget, start by using various templates that are available online, go through major items, decide how much you want to save, invest, splurge, etc. It's all up to you to be aware. If you want to splurge on nonsense, just know you're leaving yourself little wiggle room to (i) leave the job / make less money and (ii) have savings if you get laid off. If you save everything, know that you might be sacrificing early enjoyment.

My advice is generally:

- Don't be frugal just to save. You don't have to sacrifice every part of your life to save every last penny. You can enjoy some.

- Don't spend the money just because you have it. Spend money where you actually get value / happiness

- Read personal finance reddit primers to understand the basics of investing / where to put your cash and capital

- Your margin of error increases based on (i) do you have savings, expect inheritance, have support from family, etc. and (ii) if you plan on being in the industry and always increasing your income (versus many people get into the industry for the experience of 2-5 years and then can join various companies in different roles, have financial security, etc.)

  • Associate 2 in IB - Gen
Oct 26, 2021 - 5:37pm

Clearly a joke, don't invest in a 3x levered etf during one of the most exuberant times 

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 26, 2021 - 5:55pm

It wasn't a joke. Also what exactly makes this such an exuberant time? I would say more but don't feel like wasting my time. God knows what my life would be like if I had just listened to people like you and typical investment advice. Glad I was able to tune out this forum and take bets on myself that now put me in a position to do whatever I want.

Nov 5, 2021 - 8:43pm

dumbest fucking shit I ever read. Yes, you should be risk on in your 20's. No, levered ETFs and flipping NFTs & crypto are not the way. There are better, more efficient ways to add market risk to your portfolio including using margin, investing in PE (if you work in PE and have coinvest, max that out), shorting, and using effective leverage at the personal level (e.g., refinance your student loans to extend the payment period as long as is responsible).

I'm not even going to address crypto and NFTs. Those are obviously zero sum games and just the latest example of investor mania. 

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Nov 6, 2021 - 1:31am

"dumbest shit you've ever read" but most SBs probably on this site? Guess that makes you right and everyone else wrong, cool. Keep slaving away. I'm sure your use of margin, co-invest, and uh I guess shorting (lol) will free you soon.

Nov 5, 2021 - 11:27pm

Serious comment - can someone please explain the logic behind maxing out Roth IRA / 401k? I just don't understand why you'd want to put so much money starting in your early 20s in what's effectively a prison for your money that you can't access until 40+ years down the line, unless you want to pay back all the savings plus a penalty.

Nov 6, 2021 - 12:54am

Yeah I don't think "put all $19.5k away" advice is the best advice. I think you should make sure you're putting away as much as your employer will match. Usually that's in the 5-10% of salary territory, which is a pretty high retirement contribution for someone in their 20's. I did that for my first four years out of school (have since gone to b school so no employer match) and the ~$25k or so I contributed is already well over $100k, which should snowball to ~$2mm by 2060. While I'll go back to meeting my employer match post business school, I'm now more worried about saving for my first home purchase.

Oct 25, 2021 - 4:02pm

Congrats on your offer and for taking the time to plan. I echo the comment above that though it may seem like a lot it may not be too much when accounting for HCOL, costs of doing the job (not much time to cook or do your own laundry or too many errands without delivery, etc.), and just social aspects of the company/job may eat into that amount. Granted I do know a good amount of junior people (myself somewhat included) who saved a good amount. There are those who got in debt but I don't think it's necessary unless you want to get bottle service or the like almost every weekend/month it seems. Rent I think is supposed to be up to 1/40 on a monthly basis of annual salary, which roughly comes out to like 2k/month. Again some people did more than that and some did below. Then there's breakfast / lunch / commute expenses during week. Other meals as needed, not too much time for groceries but maybe now with WFH it's better on that potentially. Dry cleaning, laundry, general household / self-care expenses. Maybe all of this can cost you another $1k a month. Then social and entertainment, going out, fun stuff. Maybe a gym membership. Maybe another $500/month there. So far looking like a reasonable estimate may be like 3.5-4K/month on expenses. Since nyc taxes come out to like 1/2 the paycheck (maybe more now even for analysts idk given new tax regimes coming in) that's like 8k in gross pay just to cover expenses basically. That's like $100k in annual salary to almost kinda breakeven in the job in some sense. I could be off on these numbers but this is just one sample rough estimate. Granted if you can save your bonus / the lump sum payment of your wages at the end of your time (sounds like that may be another $100k for you) that amount can be pure "profit" / money for you to save / invest or do whatever you want with. I hope this helps! :) best wishes and good luck! :)

Oct 25, 2021 - 6:50pm

I would caution against TQQQ or UPRO.... you could get wiped out if we enter a bear market. 

Better to do something like TMF/UPRO and split 50/50. Real Estate is good too. 

Array

  • 1
Oct 25, 2021 - 6:09pm

General Budget:

Base 85k  ->  ~57k net 

4,773 net monthly

Rent - 1.5K (had 1 roommate) + 200 in utilities + 100 for commute (reimbursed by firm)

700 for student loans

500 on Food (I never cooked but I didn't do restaurants much)/ NYC food can be cheap if you know where to go

~200-300 entertainment if I went out

~1500 save a month

Consulting Bonus ~20k = ~13k net

Living in NYC wasn't that bad. Saved ~30-35k a year.

If you factor in your projected bonus and no student debt you could comfortably save 50-70K a year.

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Oct 26, 2021 - 4:49pm

I feel like 500 on food is nearly impossible. I spend ~15 a day on lunch at the office alone, which is like 400 a month right there. Stop for breakfast/coffee on the way to work that's another couple hundred.

Dinner is comped during the week, but if you want to do anything social on weekends other than eat chipotle delivery in your room, you're going to be spending another couple hundred a month right there.

With no time to cook or buy groceries, food is very expensive. Don't underbudget here- I try for 1000 a month and often have a hard time staying in that range

  • Incoming Analyst in AM - Other
Oct 27, 2021 - 1:19am

Moving to a VHCOL city (not NY) with same base pay as you. My estimated budget looks pretty much the same, except I, fortunately, don't have debt. Good to see that it's doable and not as terrible as so many people I've seen on the internet say. 

Oct 25, 2021 - 8:14pm

just save your ass off and find out what you like to/are good at investing. The important part to making lots of money is having capital at the right time. 

Plenty of guys make a ton of money before 30 on dumb investments. Stash a large amount away until you see an opportunity whether it be RE, crypto, etc then take your savings and roll the dice. 

Or you can be a boomer and toss everything in SPY. 

Oct 25, 2021 - 8:51pm

Let's assume you make 200k and since you live in nyc let's assume your taxes are 50%.

So you basically have 100k cash for the year, which sounds like a lot, but not really if you're living in Manhattan.

Rent should be about 2.5k a month imo, because living in a nice, safe building is worth it. Esp when you bring girls home, don't try to save on a nice place it's not worth it. So that costs you 30k.

You're down to 70k. Since you're getting free dinner from work your food costs shouldn't be crazy. Let's say a few nice meals and few nights a month on dates and clubs. Would run you around 2.5k a month. Another 30k.

So aim to save about 40k a year. Plow that right into vanguard extended market every year and you won't have any problems come retirement.

Oct 25, 2021 - 9:24pm

Each paycheck:
Max out 401k
$500 per paycheck into long term savings (investments / down payment on house / retirement)
$300 into short term savings (vacationing or splurging)

Leaves you plenty to live on, about $13k a year in long term savings (before bonus), and enough for a couple nice vacations

Bonus: put a few thousand into splurge account and the rest goes into long-term account.

After bonus, will leave you about 40k in long-term savings not even including 401k in your first year.
 

Just my take / what I do

  • Incoming Analyst in IB-M&A
Oct 25, 2021 - 10:09pm

What about for someone not living in NYC/LA/SF and in a city like HOU/ATL/CTL?

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 25, 2021 - 10:13pm

You'll be saving a lot more, living in a more luxury/comfortable place, and have more space. Oh but I guess your missing out on all the "prestige" and the dope paycut you could get by moving over into the golden promised land of PE

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Cov
Oct 27, 2021 - 9:49pm

Jumped down to a bank's CLT office after doing my AN years at a BB in NY and realizing I didn't care about PE exits enough to stay in the City, and I can tell you the COL adjustment from NYC to Charlotte is absolutely ridiculous. Rent is so much cheaper, food is cheaper, things to do are generally much cheaper, and taxes are also a decent amount lower. Travel is a bit more expensive since Charlotte's public transportation system sucks so I need a car. Living on above-street ASO pay in a city like CLT can get you a really comfortable lifestyle while still saving a very solid amount.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 27, 2021 - 10:58pm

Shhhh don't give out the secret...I've been watching this forum devolve into madness and misery from all these guys on here the past year...most likely they're cooped up in NYC losing half their pay to COL...while let's just say life has been good down here :)

Oct 25, 2021 - 10:38pm

sure. so, it's 100k after tax, med insurance, etc., which is 8k per month.

4k on rent

2k on student loans

food: $15 breakfast, $30 lunch, $30 dinner -> $75/day -> $2,250 per month.

That is, you are already above your budget, and we still haven't taken into account buying new clothes, paying for car or using uber, taking girls out (that's ~$100 per date), gym membership, workout supplements (i.e. protein), investments (!!!), etc. So, is it still absurd to you? ;)

Oct 26, 2021 - 2:02am

then you'll have to jerk off cause ain't no girls are interested in an adult man living with roommates. they aren't even interested if you rent a studio. it must be a nice, at least 1bd apartment in a nice neighborhood, thus $4k.

Oct 25, 2021 - 11:07pm

Max out 401k, save 100% of bonus. Every. Single. Year. 

You do this...you're gonna be set. Some will argue you're young, NYC is expensive, enjoy it will make more down the road. Don't listen. First you dont know where your career will take you. Second, and more importantly, money equals freedom and the sooner you start building a nest egg that compounds the faster you will reach levels of greater optionality to buy a house, start a company, leave for a more passionate career path. I have friends that were pretty loose with money and were forced to delay buying an apt/house / making other moves by several years vs. those friends that saved. I personally have never spend a penny of my bonus money. That said to each their own. 

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
Oct 25, 2021 - 11:09pm

I'm a first year and I don't feel constrained at all living on $100k. Maxing my 401k and additional savings while still enjoying weekends without worrying about money. Can't tell if some of these other comments are trolling or just that out of touch.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
Oct 26, 2021 - 5:04pm

Not a top group but a name you'd know (not a regional office or something). Friday night + Saturday has been fairly well protected against internal deadline work and obvs some client request could blow that up but hasn't happened to me yet. 

Oct 26, 2021 - 12:55am

People on here love saying that much money is nothing in NYC. So stupid. My base is 105k and pre bonus I have zero trouble saving and living pretty well. At 105k I make around 6k a month. Spending ~2k on rent, you still have ~4K on saving and spending. If you save 2k a month and spend 2k a month, you're saving 24k a year pre bonus. You will most likely not be spending this much a month so you will save even more. Then if your bonus is another ~80k pre tax and ~40k post tax you will have saved like ~70k in a year which is awesome. Not sure what everyone is doing where their 150k+ all in at 23 years old is barely enough to get by but that's none of my business. Also, definitely prioritize saving but don't be so stuck on getting to a specific amount saved. The job is stressful enough, have some fun. Go on trips when you can. Do nice dinners here and there and spend some money.

  • Associate 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 26, 2021 - 7:35am

I was in the same boat as you in terms of no debt. I think how much you save will be a function of your living situation. A few years ago when I started, I lived with a large group and my rent was very low ~$1600. Keep in mind this was when bases were $85k. I basically lived off one pay check ~$2300 (or something like that) and saved the other. 
 

I stayed very close to this cost of living for another 2yrs and just recently got an apartment upgrade. Now I'll be back to living off one paycheck and saving the other (albeit each check is bigger now). This isn't a one size fits all and won't work for everyone's situation but worked for me. If you overspend one month, not the end of the world as this doesn't even factor a bonus

Oct 26, 2021 - 9:57am

This is from long ago and maybe overly simplistic, but I maxed my 401k, spent the rest of my salary and saved 100% of my bonuses. Had about $2M in savings by 32 and the decided to start a company which drained all of that but is theoretically worth a lot more on paper. 

  • 1
Oct 26, 2021 - 12:06pm

Live off your base.  Assume your bonus doesn't exist. Set your expenses and saving / investing goals for the year based on your base pay.

When you get your bonus, take $5-10k and buy something nice then allocate the rest only to debt, savings, retirement and investments.  Even now all I do is pretty much go to a nice dinner to celebrate, I don't even spend close to $5k when I get my bonus.

It might sound like a lot of money but after taxes it won't be nearly as much as you think.  Learning to live beneath your means is the most important thing you can do in life if you want to set yourself up for financial security, and learning to treat your bonus as a windfall rather than expected income will be the most important financial decision you can learn to make.  Because after all, the bonus isn't guaranteed, and this is an extremely cyclical industry, so don't count on it.

Oct 26, 2021 - 12:39pm

"in Manhattan, NYC" yeah GG bud. Your first few years should be spent just heavily saving and eating out as little as possibly. 170 - 200K is objectively a lot of money, but after taxes and general living expenses in Manhattan, you're not gonna have a bunch money leftover, so focus on maxing your Roth IRA and 401K, make sure you have an emergency savings fund, and invest the rest into a brokerage account of ETF's or blue chip stocks and real estate. Let your money make money. DO NOT splurge right now. You have time for that when you start making 350k+ in a couple years. Obviously dont be a penny pincher, you can go out once in a while, but please aggressively save. With all things considered you really will not have fuck you money this year, but eventually? Yeah, you will. GL

Oct 29, 2021 - 3:33pm

Anonymous Monkey

fuck u honestly jealous as shit 

So, how do your comments add value to the conversation?

SafariJoe, wins again!
Oct 28, 2021 - 12:57am

I was expecting to pay 2k/month given the shitholes my friends and I lived in for the summer cost that much (I understand that a longer term lease will reduce the price, but that's offset by my hopes of not living in a similar shithole). What do other 1st year analysts pay?

Oct 28, 2021 - 9:08am

Max out your 401(k) retirement contribution and invest it in like 90% S&P 500 and 10% high yield bond funds, erring more toward stocks. I put personally 15% away and my firm matches 5%. Then adjust your lifestyle to the post-tax, post-health insurance and post-401(k) contribution bi-weekly paycheck you receive. This is the best way to do it, it forces you to live within your means while guaranteeing savings and returns over time without you having to do anything.

If you're making $170k to start as a 22 year old and you do it "right" in your 20s, you can set yourself up for a life of abundance and financial security. Don't be materialistic and vain like every other analyst in NYC and lots of ppl on this forum. It's a waste of your money and won't make you happy.  

Would also recommend "The Millionaire Next Door" and "Rich Dad Poor Dad" as books to give you a sound philosophy around managing your personal finances. Tony Robbins also has some good books too like "Money: Master the Game" -- these are all easy reads and incredibly useful. It's all about consistency and discipline.

PM me with any questions. Congratulations on that gig, and don't forget that it puts you in the 99.9999th percentile of people your age and not everyone is as fortunate as you are. Make the most of it.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 28, 2021 - 10:23am

LMFAO this dude really pulled out the Dave Ramsey playbook. Do NOT listen to him and go read the post with a bunch of SBs that the other dude wrote he is right. 20% bonds even...like fucking really man? Are you trying to make him wait till 40 to buy a house? Like at least for the Roth IRA...he can't touch those funds for another 40 years...why not lever it up. Listening to this kind of normie advice has hurt more people on this forum than it has helped. This is not the right audience for that. 

  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Oct 31, 2021 - 6:36am

Please invest your income responsibly into a globally diversified 60 / 40 equities / bonds index fund and make 5% per year until you retire at age 75 :^) 

Oct 29, 2021 - 2:53pm

Wealth = money + time + freedom

You spend all your time trying to make money, then you spend all your money trying to make up for lost time.

Oct 29, 2021 - 3:01pm

I can't tell if this is serious or not. An IB analyst that doesn't know how to manage a simple personal budget?

Congratulations on the new job, start by investing in your humility. If you cannot manage to make 130k work in Manhattan, then you are living too lavishly.

If you are truly in IB, your bank will pay for at least 50% of your meals. That alone is plenty.

The best advice I got out of school was "Live your first 2 years like you are still supporting yourself in college". In other words, live as cheap as possible and save.  

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