Finance seems like an incredibly bad deal compared to FAANG
Analysts make 100k, senior VPs 200. This is the same as random programmers at FAANG.
Stock is fine too. Nothing special about ib bonuses. If you were an early Uber eng you're making millions.
The only place it gets good is with MDs. MDs make 500k. But not worth the time to get there.
HFT pays good if you are an imo winner but seriously who does that?
Hf pm is the only real job in finance. Rest is mediocre vs FAANG.
Have a friend who told me he's breaking 6 figures his first year working under 40 hours a week...only thing is, I'm fine that I'll be working double his hours for a bit more because I wouldn't find tech as interesting or exciting
How would you not find tech interesting but formatting logos at 2AM appealing?
Let's be honest that tech has the "culture" of changing the world. Do I really think Facebook or Netflix are changing the world now a days. I could be wrong but no. And if you have a bunch of people who drink the Kool aid because they get paid well thats a little bit of a different story.
I mean you can’t really compare them. One is a job that requires coding/lots of hard technical skill, is much more static (you code unless you get up to the managerial levels), and you’re limited to tech/start ups (not a bad thing, but it’s more limited). Finance is more about soft skills the higher you go up, the job changes... a lot. And you can exit to nearly any sector in finance. Not to mention you can go into tech companies (Corp dev). Tech is good if you like to code/like tech. Finance is good if you don’t and/or want more or different options.
Also, IB MDs can rake in $1MM+, top PE/HF Partners/PMs even more. Tech plateaus a lot more quickly. Finance has a higher ceiling for most people (barring the James Simons’s of the world).
I know but what do the Median banking guys make?
I always hear 200k online, but whenever I meet any analysts they're closer to 100k or 110k or so.
lol, it goes up every year speaking from experience. 110k is a worst case scenario for 1st years within my group
“Banking guys” doesn’t mean anything. Pay scales with your experience and your position. See https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/salary/investment-banking-compensation</a">here
"median" doesn't mean anything..
ib comp is pretty much lockstep til Director/MD - just like biglaw comp is til partner. it's a case of survival/sustained performance not medians or averages.
What kind of analyst makes 100 fucking k? Evercore makes like 200k all in first year out of college
Look, I'm sure if you prepare more for your IBD interviews, you'll make it past the first round next time.
Look, I'm sure if you learn Java you'll pass the l3 Google screeb next time
what does java have to do with sh33tcode exactly?
The difference is, I'm not posting on a developer forum trying to flex so I probably didn't apply for any Google jobs.
What kind of third-tier shop has MDs that are only making $500K all-in? Most people that I've talked to in the industry or at top MBA programs agree that first-year VPs are making nearly that much:
Base: $225K+ Bonus: ~100% of Base
He's just another troll but yes, 1st year VP's are pulling down $500k all-in at any bank that's worth a damn.
The all in at Google is millions you clown, base is the only fair comparison
htt ps://w ww.google.c om/search?q=uber+millionaires&oq=uber+milli&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0l2.4677j0j7&client=ms-android-tmus-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Not that I know of. I was a VP at a bulge bracket with decent year end reviews. VP 1 was 200k base + bonus. it's a number of years ago, and it was during the financial crisis, but I just don't think it's so easy to blanket-statement VPs getting $500k everywhere. During the financial crisis bonuses were 40-80k.
But that's obviously a different market than where we are now, certainly.
Haha senior VPs at EBs pull in 700k
This argument doesn't even apply outside of the US. Techies here in Europe generally make a lot less than financiers.
Cough Cough People dont want to believe this but alot of techines make less across the board
Tbf, the tech scene in Europe is pretty sad. Used to be better, but any good company gets bought out by American/Chinese/Japanese corps and asides from a handful, there are few tech companies from Europe that some randomass person on the street can mention
Even European tech companies like Spotify have shit monetization strategy or are overregulated.
The only European tech company is Runescape.
Do what you like
Dude you are a genius, you figured it out! Don't let everyone in on the secret. Keep your mouth closed and get on over there then. I am so impressed you cracked the code! If only the rest of us were as smart as you, then we would have bailed on IB for tech years ago.
Tech is a bubble now
Playing both sides of the coins in one post. Smart man
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/entry-opps-for-programmer
lol.
So what
Keep dancing, clown
Hahahaha
Top banks destroy top tech companies when it comes to pay. Sure, you might make like 10-30k less as a first year analyst at Moelis compared to Amazon, but pay scales much better for said banker.
Moelis Banker's career trajectory (Comp/opps are fluid and could move up or down 50k)- A1- 170k A2-180k -Move to PE-hours fall- A1- 250k A2-265k -MBA, which is the big downer but you can forgo it in HF industry- Post MBA A-300k VP1 (hours fall again)- 475k VP2-525k And it increases even more thereafter, unless you move to industry, where you'll likely make less until you make a more senior position.
Software engineer at FAANG-40-50 hours- A1- 200k A2-205k A3-210k A4-215k A5-215k on and on And you better hope your stock options work out
Bottom line: Finance pays better in the long-run, especially if you're half-good. Have fun looking for a job after the tech bubble pops dawg.
"And you better hope your stock options work out"
Give me a recent example of them NOT working out? All of my older sisters sorta gumpy but chill friends are rich af in tech.
WorldCom, half the dotcom bubble, wirecard, etc.
We're in the largest bull run in history, by log growth of the general market, everyone at any company worth a damn is doing good on their options
You’re a complete moron if you think people at FAANG take 5k raises for 5 straight years (less than 3%) given how hot the job market is.
Also hilarious that a non-target student aiming for credit risk jobs is talking about rising to VP or above at PE is a sure thing / nbd for anybody.
My FAANG friends who haven’t touched their initial stock grants have made over 3x in gains over a handful of years and that portion of comp is worth >300k now.
I posted the credit risk thread in my freshman year, and I already signed my offer for IB FT. It's interesting that you'd rag on credit considering your post history comprises corp dev/corp banking/ and a no name private equity firm that probably pays below first year analysts. Really couldn't make a good BB group from a target? Your FAANG friends don't make shit compared to my Point 72 and Top PE friends.
To the first replier, equity/stock options don't work out for most people that go to tech startups. They'll certainly fall after the tech bubble pops (really, who in their right mind would think that Amazon or Apple are really worth anywhere near 1 trillion?). I'd take carry at PE fund any day over overvalued stock. And check Blind, my comp numbers are standard. It's why the "ceiling is lower" in tech.
all you have to do is look at www.comp.fyi to know your numbers are off for top tech.
This is wildly inaccurate, at least for FB and Google in the Bay Area. L4 SWE at Google are making north of 275k their second year, often their first year. L4 is entry level for most with experience or a grad degree. 3-4 years into L4 with decent performance and they're around 350k. L5 which is still an individual contributor level (not a manager) are frequently north of 400k total comp. L6 SWE manager are easily over $500k, L7 >$700k. Director level Eng are north of $1mm by a good margin.
Amazon and Apple comp are blown away by Google and FB for equivalent positions. I'm at Google now and we have internal tools to view aggregated comp data, anonymously. I can't speak to the accuracy of the banking numbers, but the figures I mentioned above are completely accurate for Google in the Bay and are similar at FB here.
Your software engineering comp is way off. At Google its more like this:
L3 (entry level): 150K L4 (3rd yr analyst/1st yr assoc): 220K L5 (Assoc): 350K L6 (VP): 450-550K L7 (Director): 600-1M L8 (MD): 1M+
L7-L8 are kind of fluid, at those levels it depends on the profiles of the people. You may have literally the only expert in a particular field and need to overpay for this guy, which doesn't actually happen in Finance where people are more commoditized
15th percentile total comp in Mountain View for a level 4 SWE is $240k so $220k would be really low. 50th % L4 in mountain view TC is $270k. L5 50th % is 340k, but varies wildly because some people stay at L5 basically for their whole careers. 50th % for L3 is 210k. 50th % for L6 is 470k.
Hate if you want, these are the facts
From what I understand, these total comp figures are actually understated by quite a bit for current employees because of the stock price appreciation that has happened. Just mind blowing.
KingColonize is just so off that it's laughable.
Plus a lot more seats that pay that than not.
Got a notification on this old thread and got really excited to come back to call you all idiots!
My initial post wasn't geared towards Google or Facebook, just like the finance comps listed here aren't geared towards KKR and Apollo (it was more of a sarcastic take on scalability for the vast majority of people who level off in tech). Certainly, there are more seats at the former opposed to the latter. Yes, the SWEs with 6 years of experience at Google are probably making more than the guys with 6 YoE at regional boutiques. However, I still wouldn't completely shoot down a career in finance because of that fact. I didn't work at Goldman or JPMorgan, but that doesn't matter because there are great banks and PE/Growth/VC firms that pay above what the average FB or Google SWE will make with equal levels of experience. That's not to mention the legions of very good banks and PE funds that pay head and shoulders above what the rest of the FAANG cohort offers or other the step-down tech companies. I understand that making it to VP at a PE firm is not a sure-fire, or even likely result as one progresses in their career, but let's also recognize that the same applies when it comes to moving from L4 to L6/L7 at Google or Amazon. Having RSUs in your contract is great, assuming you actually have the ability to liquidate them at some point. The people claiming that stock options, especially in this economy, are a surefire path to clearing 1 mil/yr in comp are almost as braindead as the people who think they'll be Dogecoin millionaires. Guess what? It's very unlikely to happen.
Everyone knows a guy that made a killing working for a start-up/growth stage company, and that's awesome. More power to ya. But let's not act like there aren't levels to this game. Just because you received a 50k grant doesn't mean it'll be worth 300k in a couple years, especially now.
@high hopes let me know if you need a job rec bud
The talk seems to only be about comp but we all keep forgetting about sheer hours worked in banking (as well as the opportunity cost of giving up other pursuits, hobbies, relationships), as well other benefits often provided by tech cos (meals, gyms, nice offices, colleagues that are actually pleasant) etc. All of this adds up physically, mentally and emotionally. I do not have data on turnover in tech companies but it would not surprise me if it’s lower than in finance and if people are happier than they are in finance.
OP sounds like he or she may be a troll but the general point, in my opinion, is not an invalid one. Finance is nothing compared to what it used to be (comp-wise and rep-wise) and that is not changing barring any huge regulatory shifts globally (amongst other things).
Someone mentioned that tech is in a bubble. I do not dispute that but let’s not forget that financial services industry is extremely cyclical. Economy hits a rough patch? Companies won’t be expanding which means they won’t be raising capital, salaries will be pinched and so people will not be throwing money into products (flight to cash), this means less products which means less trading and of course less leverage etc etc etc. in short it means a ton of people in financial services will get chopped and most that stay won’t get paid and will gratefully cling onto their seats for dear life.
For anyone working in finance, look at the people above you who have been around for 15 plus years. They are survivors. It is worth asking them how they survived. The good ones will tell you that it was some combination involving luck, skill, the right boss, the right product, being junior or senior enough to be kept etc. It may also worth asking them how many they know that have left and or have been spit out by the machine (fired, laid off, chopped politically, automated out, quit, retired etc).
This is not to sound bearish by any means, but hopefully to provide some perspective.
Good Luck
On your first point, anecdotal but I grew up in Silicon Valley and therefore know lots of people working in FAANG+ from straight out of undergrad through in their 50s. Turnover is extremely, extremely low and usually due (at mid/senior levels) to being poached. My friends straight out of college (say they) are working 40 hr weeks on average (both as SWEs and ops/strategy).
FAANG entry-level SWE jobs are probably more competitive than IBD etc. though. Probably should have listened to my parents when they told me to major in CS but oh well.
absolutely not.. droves of SWEs get hired as new grads into top paying companies every year. banking has maybe max 1-2k analysts hired at decent firms every year with the vast majority coming from a small set of schools.
Apples to oranges.
Comp aside, is the work actually interesting?
Comparing Finance to FAANG isn't fair because FAANG is already attracting the best of the engineering grads while perhaps the majority of others take ho-hum jobs making $80k with a ceiling of $200k. Look at what the top 5% of Finance grads are making and that'd be a better comparison. Likewise Tech is experiencing a peak decade much like Medicine in the 80s (I'm a medical resident), Law before it diluted itself, and Finance maybe in the 90s/00s. It will not be like this forever, and even if it is god bless because the work sounds boring as fuck.
Anyone whining about making six figures straight outta college with tons of upward mobility potential is disconnected from reality. That's still a great gig regardless of the hours and needing to live in a high COL city. There are so many hardworking and bright people who never hit $100k. If it makes you feel better in Law you will often graduate law school in your mid-20s with six figs of debt with a median salary of ~$85k or shit no JD-requiring job at all. In Medicine you also take on loads of debt and then make ~50k working 80h/wk until your early 30s.
If you fixate on what others have you're gonna have a hard time. It's a moving target set to a hedonistic treadmill.
Another one of the classics from double D
whats your comp
Everyone above is right on the money for IB sell-side all in comp
You guys are ridiculously off on tech comp. It's pretty ridiculous. Where are you getting your figures? I have more friends than I can count working at growth to late stage tech companies in SF. It's factors above what everyone is saying.
Don't compare PJT/ CV top tier EB comp to a below market tech comp. ~26 year olds at Airbnb who've been there for a few years will put down 500k in stock alone from the IPO. ........ Do i need to add salesforce? how about uber?
Too piggyback off of this, some of the new hires at Snap this past ~2 years (only reason I know this is have a swe friend who just started little over a year ago), have had their comp raise to $1M+ due to stock price... completely ridiculous for a 25 year old, but their comp will drop back down after they get their new stock refreshers-still an interesting data point though.
With that said, do what you want. There's plenty of ways to make money and job satisfaction is more important in the long run. If you like finance do finance, if you like tech do tech.
Nemo sequi nihil vitae qui est. Dolorem dolor cumque minima. Nesciunt et ut at et illo. Quod recusandae nihil eius repellendus. Vero id optio velit totam perspiciatis cumque velit. Aut assumenda rem et quaerat.
Iste necessitatibus hic aliquid molestiae quia ab voluptatem. Vero et ratione et. At eum numquam vitae pariatur. Nam vel ullam ipsam aut culpa quia. Qui natus rerum ut et. Maxime dolorem totam dolores recusandae non.
Amet voluptatem quis quasi quisquam aut. Est et qui ea neque quis necessitatibus rerum.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Reprehenderit ipsum et et et assumenda. Consequuntur ratione quos quo. Dolor quas quidem error.
Molestiae perspiciatis expedita quis quaerat quos. Adipisci alias minus et quas quis animi non in. Sint quidem qui ut suscipit. Ipsam quo sed minus deleniti cumque iusto. Saepe quam accusantium consequatur. Voluptas repudiandae aperiam voluptatem ut consectetur molestiae consequatur nihil.
Voluptatem ipsa ut sit quaerat omnis qui consequatur. Officia et modi ipsa quia et nobis. Et rerum inventore vero laudantium. Est aut sed nostrum fugiat ea ut. Cum omnis sunt ut quo quae porro dolorem.
Doloribus voluptas dolor alias. Est sit consectetur numquam quae debitis delectus ipsam dolores. Nesciunt at nisi rem error ipsam eveniet. Reprehenderit voluptas eos unde porro at dolor. Iste at tempore earum hic a.
Hic autem est sunt et dolores omnis quod eum. Ipsa et ullam vel nisi et sunt. Sunt et sint saepe. Ea sint aut odit illo. Officia iusto eos ipsum nostrum distinctio. Et quam tenetur in exercitationem.