Is it true that Tobin & Company doesn't pay their analysts?

I had a friend who used to worked with a few people from Tobin tell me that analysts at Tobin don't get paid unless they're there while a deal is closed. In that case, they'll receive a bonus/stipend or something like that.

Does anyone know if this is true??? I've heard horror stories about the MD Justine Tobine on WSO, but this would trump all of them.

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Comments (153)

Jun 27, 2016

Directly from the website: "Although the Analyst Program is unpaid..."

http://tobinandco.com/careers/

Mar 7, 2017

What a fckng joke.

    • 1
Jun 27, 2016

That's horrible. How is that legal?

    • 2
Mar 7, 2017

iggs99988 - give me a call - I'd be happy to discuss the legality of this with you. Justine Tobin

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    • 112
Mar 20, 2017

That negative 35 banana rating haha

"I did it for me...I liked it...I was good at it. And I was really... I was alive."

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Oct 10, 2017

lmao your rating tho

Dayman?

Jun 27, 2016

this is what happens when kids want this dream of being bankers to the point they are able to spend 8 months at a no name firm, for no pay, with no guarantee of any form of job.... its actually really sad that employers get to take advantage of this. I love how the analysts are employed from a range of Bain.... all the way to army reserves hahaha

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Funniest
Mar 17, 2017

I just love this line: "Each analyst has gone on to be hired outside the company, a point of pride for our program."
What's the alternative? Never finding a job?

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May 25, 2017
ElectricCowboy:

I just love this line: "Each analyst has gone on to be hired outside the company, a point of pride for our program."
What's the alternative? Never finding a job?

Well if they were good enough, they'd be retained as a perpetual unpaid intern, but no one has lived up to the Tobin name.

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Jun 28, 2016

Why the fuck would anybody do that... Heard terrible stories about Justine Tobin too.

    • 10
Jun 28, 2016

Pathetic and should be illegal.

    • 6
Jun 28, 2016

I don't actually see a problem with it. People are willing to do it to get experience and improve their career. Win/Win. It is not different to going to school except it is net zero not net negative.

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Jul 10, 2016

"Tobinites" hahaha this shit sounds like a cult.

    • 9
Mar 15, 2017

Spinoff from strattonites on the Wolf Of Wall Street Movie. Sad!

    • 6
May 25, 2017

Boi why the fuck you sound like Donald Trump's Twitter

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Mar 7, 2017

very curious if anyone has actually worked here.

don't deny that unpaid jobs can provide valuable experiences, but i would assume that the company would really struggle for talent - versus another investment bank they would be hard pressed to offer an experience that another bank doesn't plus comp.

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Mar 14, 2017

Personally I'm skeptical that working for someone who brags about cussing out Target employees on their own personal Twitter account could be a good experience.

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Mar 7, 2017

@TOBINCO - are you still hiring interns???

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Mar 8, 2017

The thing is, there's a lot of talented people that can do banking, and only so many open spots at banks to go around. I can see why someone would consider this job...although frankly, I wouldn't.

Jun 28, 2016

Seems like this would be a super last ditch option only if you can't secure a MM/BB/EB position, in addition to all the different boutiques that actually pay people.

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Best Response
Jun 27, 2016

What would personally worry me is that the managing partner of the firm has so much free time that she can join WSO to hype her program. Makes me question what deal flow the firm could possibly have.

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Mar 8, 2017

I'm pretty sure there is a law requiring employers to either pay their employees or provide college credit. Since this is a post-grad program, it obviously doesn't fit that requirement.

This just seems dirty. I would get it if she was paying some employees and was willing to take on interested students as unpaid interns - that, relatively speaking, would be fine. It's actively marketing an unpaid program and not paying a cent for any member of your junior staff.

The market rate for junior talent isn't hard to figure out. She knows how much she should be paying to have Analysts, and is not paying just because she can. I think that's pretty much the definition of a slum lord. What's worse is that she takes credit for their accomplishments. Like just having Tobin & Co. on their resume got someone a job at Goldman - no way.

This is all good though, I love having someone to root against.

    • 6
Mar 14, 2017

Even if you aren't paying standard analyst or intern wages you could at least pay something, Jesus Christ. If your local McDonalds franchise can pay $7.25/hr, so can you.

This feels like something Dealbreaker or a similar site would enjoy writing about.

Jun 27, 2016

Whoa. Apparently we got Justine's attention on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/TobinandCo_IBG/status/839506248320036864
https://twitter.com/TobinandCo_IBG/status/839933080588664832
EDIT: Her personal Twitter is pretty angry too. She really, really hates whoever is dropping weights in her condo building.

    • 13
Mar 14, 2017

I'm starting to enjoy this.

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Mar 14, 2017

It's starting to get interesting isn't it?

Mar 18, 2017

She tweets like our current POTUS and I don't mean that in a positive light.

"The FAILING wallstreetoasis is very toxic and nasty. Spreading FALSE rumors about our firm. Our analysts actually get paid in lashings and accrued hours on the torture rack. SAD!"

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Jun 28, 2016

Lol. Some funny stuff about Tobin (firm & person) in this thread: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ib-presence-...

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Mar 14, 2017

Appears she also elected that same day to respond to each review on glass door. She seems completely unhinged.

Mar 14, 2017

I am sorry but the amount of hashtags and identifiers in her tweets make it unbearable to read.

Mar 14, 2017

this is hilarious

Mar 14, 2017

Just saw her twitter. She is a whiner. How does that look for the company brand?

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Mar 16, 2017

Does that mean she couldn't afford a floor higher up?

...

Jun 27, 2016

Hahahaha. Some of these newer condo buildings actually put the gym on the top floor. Not sure why, as that seems like wasted penthouse real estate.

Mar 14, 2017

Our analysts and analyst alums call @WallStreetOasis a "sh!tshow" and "toxic" saying "real bankers don't use it" Sad!

Who wrote it? Trump or Tobin?

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Jun 27, 2016

I guess I was not a real banker :'(

    • 1
Mar 14, 2017

Did you end up interning there? I don't know if I could handle that environment.

Mar 14, 2017

I also noticed that her wording sounds a lot like Trump's.

Mar 14, 2017

This approach served him well. Maybe everyone will striving to grind for her one day!

Mar 14, 2017

She actually attacks Trump on her twitter

Mar 14, 2017

Jesus she is nuts. Avoid that firm

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Mar 14, 2017

Reminds me of the "Amy's Banking Company" thing.

Edit: Meant "baking" but i'll leave the accidental pun.

Mar 15, 2017

According to the Supreme Court:

You may legally hire an unpaid worker if the following six criteria are met:

1) The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment.
2) The experience is for the benefit of the intern.
3) The intern does not displace regular employees but works under close supervision of existing staff.
4) The employer providing the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded.
5) There is no guarantee of a job at the conclusion of the internship.
6) Both parties understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the internship.

From my knowledge of the analyst program I have a hard time believing number 3 is satisfied, let alone the rest. TBH this breaks my heart that this woman appears to be exploiting an oversupply of labor/college grads in the labor market (and I like to align myself with a lot of libertarian ideals). WHERE THE HELL IS THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR?

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Mar 21, 2017

We're not talking internships here. It's the Analyst Programme.

Jun 27, 2016

Is she talking about us here?

https://twitter.com/JustineTobin/status/842454563621875714
EDIT: She most definitely is here, though.

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Mar 16, 2017

It's funny because almost everyone that enters IB or is interested in a career in 'high finance' these days is on WSO, whether she likes it or not.

She also deleted that second tweet...

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Mar 16, 2017

What an absolute joke. Can't even fathom working for someone like this.

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Mar 16, 2017

Omg but have you seen this one? https://twitter.com/JustineTobin/status/8424545636...
Pretty sure everyone would say something to your face at this point now Tobin. I don't think the people here respect you after your twitter rant.

...

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Mar 16, 2017

LOL. Currently trying to figure out how she has the time to care AND rant about "wanna be bankers" all day on twitter. Is she 50 or 5?

Mar 16, 2017

Must've been talking about me :(

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Jun 27, 2016

She hasn't closed a transaction since June 2016. She has plenty of time on her hands.

http://tobinandco.com/experience-selected-transact...

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Mar 14, 2017

Best internship program ever. :)

Mar 7, 2017

This company doesn't do deals! Sad! Living on past success! Sad!

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Jun 27, 2016

Donald, is that you?

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Mar 17, 2017

I have no clue why she would advertise this. If I was a prospective client getting pitched and I saw her website I would think "Great, I'd have unpaid bankers working on my deal. Next!"

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Mar 20, 2017

Southern boomer business/real-estate owners don't give a shit brah. They'll go along with her as long as she gets her knees sore and "comfortable" for them.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

Mar 17, 2017

They like to think of it like an apprenticeship program but in reality in this day and age you have to be really full of yourself to think that you are deigned worthy for people to give half a year of their lives to you without compensation. Another way to look at it: no riff raff here, only those who have the means to support themselves and don't need an income!

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Mar 17, 2017

This whole affair begs the question: If WSO was that "nasty," why create an account on the site in the first place?

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Mar 17, 2017

Wait, this "Analyst Program" is a FT gig that's unpaid? Reading posts here I thought it was a SA stint. Who in their right mind would go be an IB Analyst full time with no salary?

Mar 17, 2017

So, their analysts don't get paid unless a deal has closed and they haven't closed one in almost a year....

Good thing Charlotte is a relatively affordable city.

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Mar 14, 2017

They don't get paid regardless, which is why this thread exists.

Mar 17, 2017

Go to the glass door and you will really understand who this lady is. Apparently she expects analysts that want to get paid to bring in deals and get paid on commission.

"Of course, we are happy to have you come join us full time to increase our deal flow and to grow our business. Small firms generally work on a full commission basis."

She hasn't worked at a real firm since 01....I would stay away....

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Mar 17, 2017

But hey, sometime between 2014 and 2017 she started providing free coffee for her team. So it can't be all bad...

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Mar 17, 2017

https://twitter.com/JustineTobin

Dear Twittersphere- if u need @justinetobin positivity, go 2 Instagram, Facebook, my websites. I am Ralph Nader here-all consumer protection

http://realchange.org/nader.htm#overwork
You're probably right, maam. But maybe in more ways than you think.

Our analysts and analyst alums call @WallStreetOasis a "sh!tshow" and "toxic" saying "real bankers don't use it" Sad!

Looking at all of your comments, you really strike me as a liberal smaller-scale version of Donald Trump. Nice at times, brilliant at times, but also loud and abusive with a lot of complaining mixed in at other times. No big deal if you're OK with coming off as a Donald, just as long as you're aware. CEOs normally don't get truth spoken to power a whole lot, and I guess this thread is your opportunity to get some outside feedback.

I originally typed up a much shorter and more obnoxious response, but I read some of your posts here as well as scrolled through your twitter feed, beyond the 10-15 comments about VUE Charlotte. (Maybe move to a house?) I'm glad I did that. Your son is an Eagle Scout (like me) and I appreciate you coming to WSO and all to help a few students get internships, even if they're unpaid. I may think you're a loud and obnoxious person who may be a poor manager of people, but I've seen enough to also know you're a human being. I wish your business the best of luck, but you really ought to start paying minimum wage if nothing else like the vast vast majority of firms out there.

And for the record we do have real bankers here. I'd encourage you to come to one of the WSO meetups and catch up with folks from BofA, Citi, JPM, etc. I'm a quant at a large buyside hedge fund/prop shop that's north of the Mason-Dixon line that you'd probably recognize (so I will not be at a Charlotte meetup); before that I worked for Lehman/Barclays. Provocatively, all of the firms mentioned happen to pay their workers. I'd argue that real banks cut a real paycheck to their real employees every week as part of their real responsibilities.

Oh, and real bankers drive clunkers. Back to my rusty Honda.

    • 9
Mar 17, 2017

The difference is that Donald Trump built a business that could reasonably be valued in the billions of dollars. He's somewhat "earned" being bombastic, most people aren't to where they can get away with that.

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Mar 17, 2017
Attack_Chihuaha:

The difference is that Donald Trump built a business that could reasonably be valued in the billions of dollars. He's somewhat "earned" being bombastic, most people aren't to where they can get away with that.

Don't disagree, but if you dig past all of the obnoxiousness, there's some humanity. It's a bit easier to find than with Trump.

At first I was rather annoyed at her. Now I feel a bit sorry for her.

Mar 20, 2017

You are a saint Illini, this chic is an asshole and I hope her business fails miserably. People like this don't deserve success.

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Mar 17, 2017
BobTheBaker:

You are a saint Illini, this chic is an asshole and I hope her business fails miserably. People like this don't deserve success.

I find that sometimes we have a choice between venting about things and fixing them.

Look, I'm just glad that something happened over the past 24 or 48 hours or whatever where a lot of angry posts on Mrs. Tobin's twitter feed got edited or cleaned up. The attacks on WSO came down (likely to Patrick's chagrin, but whatever). Her Twitter feed is now reading 10-15 years more mature and does a better service to liberals. My guess is that she had a word with her son or something, but I am going to obnoxiously and self-aggrandizingly pretend that my post might have also helped.

I'm finding new things to like about this lady every day. I just hope she starts paying minimum wage or something. Or if nothing else, if she is not paying her employees, she should not yell at her volunteers.

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Mar 17, 2017

The real crime here is the poor grammar Tobin has on their corporate website.

Mar 17, 2017
FinanceBrah:

The real crime here is the poor grammar Tobin has on *its* corporate website.

FTFY

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Mar 17, 2017

Which Tobin?

Mar 17, 2017
Jun 27, 2016

She has a serious issue with rejection. I would personally be terrified to work for her.

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Jun 28, 2016

Those cookies don't look that great tbh.

    • 9
Mar 17, 2017

You'd think with the lack of deal flow she'd have the time to make a proper batch of cookies. Very sad!

    • 5
Mar 17, 2017

I really want to bait her into this thread: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/females-in-...

Mar 7, 2017

those don't look good

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Mar 19, 2017

.

    • 2
Mar 19, 2017

Do they even have MDs? Tobin & Co?

Mar 19, 2017

Judging from its website it seems very sketchy..

Mar 19, 2017

From the Careers section of Tobin's website:
We expect each analyst to balance her full-time work experience at Tobin & Co. with an ongoing search for paid employment

Ahaha

    • 6
Mar 14, 2017

Still fucked up to see that her shop expects analysts to work like dogs for free in the day shift then work an irrelevant night shift job to attempt to sustain their livelihood.

Mar 20, 2017

Privileged white woman liberal scum (since I've heard that she has issues with men on Wall Street). S/O to you @TOBINCO. I really do not have enough words for your kind of people. Even Foxconn pays their labourers something. This is almost the IBD equivalent of Trump University.

I worked at a PE shop offcycle, readily offering to work unpaid, and even then they felt that I should be paid a decent amount to sustain myself (which was roughly what my dad used to make in a month in his job - that much!). I wonder how anyone can offer to work for a FT unpaid role for 1-1.5 years - unless they're extremely stupid or desperate (which in turn points back to their stupidity).

Scum like Justine end up typifying the female MD on Wall Street as a bitch. Unfair to female professionals on Wall Street. < /rant>.

Oh wait, check out this gem: http://tobinandco.com/tobin2010/wp-content/uploads...

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

    • 11
Mar 19, 2017

.

Mar 7, 2017

What a joke. This is sad.

Jun 27, 2016

Ok, so which one of you created this hilarious Twitter account?

https://twitter.com/Tobin_Trump

    • 2
Mar 16, 2017

bahahahahaha

Mar 19, 2017

oh god - I think ppl should leave her son out of this regardless.

Mar 20, 2017

Naughty Sil.....

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

Mar 20, 2017

allegedly @Tobin_Trump is now blocked :(

    • 1
Mar 20, 2017

I was at Tobin for a little while, but she was incredibly rude and condescending to everyone. She would say things like: "Your Goldman MD wouldn't put up with this like I am." to which everyone would say "thank you." It is a cult.

And she wasn't even Goldman IBD.

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Mar 19, 2017

She was at goldman if I remember correctly technically, many years ago I remember.

Mar 20, 2017

She was Goldman, but not IBD if I was told correctly by one of the unpaid analysts there.

Mar 20, 2017

Chris Rock said it best: "You know what they're saying when they pay you minimum wage? Hey if I could pay you less, I would, but it's against the law!"

Mar 20, 2017

It looks like alot of those tweets were deleted. Shame....I needed a good laugh today.

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" - Will Rogers

Mar 17, 2017

There's ways of finding them using Google.

May 24, 2017

Sounds like some of these since deleted tweets were golden.

May 24, 2017

This thread has to be my all time favorite

May 25, 2017

Everyone here is going crazy saying "Why would anyone do that??"

Don't y'all know BDSM & Older Women are turn-ons for some? Sounds like the perfect place for Chuck Rhoades

Jun 29, 2017

hahahahh this thread is out of control!! hahah I have laughed pretty hard reading it! Maybe I can shed some light on the original question, as I used to work at Tobin & Company. I, like many of my fellow unpaid colleagues, generally came from non-target schools with non-traditional backgrounds. Many of us have gone on to have fairly successful careers given where we started, which we all agreed would not have been possible had we not been given a chance to work at Tobin & Company. I personally made some great friends at Tobin & Company who I still keep in touch with today. We call each other up when we need to hire analysts or interns at our firms (much easier than superdays, HR or recruiters). My opinion: if you want to do something badly enough, you will do whatever it takes, including working for free.

    • 5
Jun 29, 2017

Is that you, Justine?

    • 2
Jun 29, 2017

Not the most flattering thread of your former firm for you to bump lol

Jun 29, 2017

Not supporting what she does by any means, but there's no way in hell those analysts are working typical investment banking hours. I wouldn't be surprised if they were less than 40 hours a week - she probably struggles getting and retaining talent, so she probably needs to be lenient with them on hours. My guess is they aren't working on too many deals either.

    • 1
Mar 14, 2017
Jul 21, 2017

I heard analysts at Tobin & Co. have great work-life balance

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Jul 21, 2017

@Sil Thanks for the heads up

Mar 14, 2017

you guys are still on her mind

    • 1
Mar 17, 2017
TippyTop11:

you guys are still on her mind

Let's not keep her on ours'.

Most constructive thing to do is to ignore Ms. Tobin.

    • 1
Mar 17, 2017

That was posted in July you sop.

Mar 14, 2017

only 2 months ago :)

Mar 17, 2017

This was one of the best threads ever as it was all unfolding.

Sep 10, 2017

@TOBINCO

Post something else. This thread is cash.

    • 1
Jun 27, 2016

Earthquake in Charlotte. I hope our friend Justine is ok.

https://twitter.com/JustineTobin/status/911598458141904896

    • 2
Oct 22, 2017

It appears that she just can't let go of a grudge. What a petty individual, and it's outright pathetic to be conflating her daftness with a legitimate concern that the article tries to present. (the below is from 5 days ago)

    • 1
Oct 23, 2017

Sad!

Mar 17, 2017

That Twitter still doesn't disappoint for entertaintment.

I've never seen someone who hates their apartment complex so much yet still continues to renew their lease.

    • 3
Nov 16, 2017

.

Oct 23, 2017

Her complaining is actually pretty entertaining haha

Oct 23, 2017

would be interested to hear from @Fear The Bulge on this one

Jun 27, 2016

Anyone else wonder why a MANAGING PARTNER of an investment bank is living in a rental unit in Charlotte nonetheless? Sounds like her bank must have some terrible deal flow.

    • 4
Mar 17, 2017

And Wall Street Oasis is STILL living rent free in her head:

Holy hell. I want to forget she even exists but how can I when she keeps tagging sites I follow?

    • 1
Nov 16, 2017

We expect analysts to keep an ongoing search for paid employment says enough.

    • 2
Jan 7, 2018

Can we please introduce @my name is goldstein to @TOBINCO ? A perfect match for an intern.

Dec 30, 2018

Sadly, she hasn't been firing off as much hilarity via twitter recently

My soul is highly leveraged

    • 1