Top Restructuring Groups 2019 & Restructuring Questions
Need Opinions & Advice:
- What is the new ranking for 2019 for these listed Restructuring Groups?
PJT, Lazard, Evercore, Houlihan Lokey, Guggenheim (post-Millstein acquisition), Moelis, Centerview, Miller Buckfire, Greenhill, Rothschild, Jefferies
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How many RX SA spots do most Restructuring Groups have?
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Which restructuring groups would you take an offer over a top-BB and over a mid-BB?
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Does Restructuring analyst make a higher salary/bonus than M&A?
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How do Restructuring exit-opps compare to M&A if you like distressed?
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Is it harder to get into Restructuring compared to M&A if you are a non-target?
At MM Rx. Non target. Non Diversity. 2-3 spots for SA. 2 Spots for FT. SA salary is 60k and FT is 85k + bonus (Heard it has been pretty big like 60%+). Analyst class is around 10 people. Mostly all of them have Lev Fin or Wholesale Credit background.
Why the MS?
Would debt (dcm or LevFin) background be useful for breaking into Rx?
Comp seems low, is this Miller Buckfire/Ducera, or something like TRS, SSG etc.?
Mind if I pm you about restructuring?
Mind if I pm you about restructuring?
Mind if I pm you about restructuring?
Tier 1: PJT, Houlihan Lokey, Lazard Tier 1a: Moelis (I consider them top of the bucket, but heard of internal issues so unsure. Great group regardless), Evercore Tier 2: Rothschild, Guggenheim (Everyone know GUGG is growing so interesting to see how they shift the landscape, but they haven't had any big changes yet), Centerview, PWP Tier 2a: Jefferies, Greenhill (Supposedly on the decline) Tier 3: Miller Buckfire (Supposedly on the decline as well)
Most RX groups probably take around 8-14 SA firm wide across all offices, but this is flexible. Estimation based on the assumption around 5-6 in NY and another half for all regional offices (given they exist). Sometimes they recruit more because they're getting cranked (PJT, HL, LAZ), and sometimes they take less (?)
Would take PJT, Lazard, HL, Moelis, and Evercore RX over top BB any day. Pretty bold statement, but it's just a preference for EB over BB so take with a grain of salt. Better compensation, great exits (same at top BB as well), probably getting worked more, but the learning experience is unparalleled from what I've heard. Not to mention, many of these groups run great M&A arms as well.
Depends on the firm but often times, the compensation is higher in RX than M&A. Not that much of a difference from what I know
Exit-Opps depend on the firm, but I would argue the Tier 1 RX groups will have better exits than the top BB into distressed or even standard MF/PE. Just by way of nature, RX is more tuned to distressed than M&A so those coming out of RX will have a leg up
Yes, RX is extremely difficult to break into if you're not from a target or have someone pull for you. PJT RX (I believe HL as well) has historically taken the majority their SA from Wharton (3.8-3.9+), and it's a pipeline since the SA end up going back to campus to run campus orgs dedicated to SSG/Distressed/RX. Loop of better prepared, arguably more qualified, and top gpa students.
These are just my thoughts and opinions. All these firms are great in their own regard so take it with a grain of salt.
Thanks for your help. I have an offer from what you describe as Tier 2 as a non-target. Would you say its better to accept or wait for top BB recruiting?
If you want to do RX/Distressed in the future, just take the offer. If you're unsure, you could wait. Have you tried accelerating some of the BB with your offer?
Mostly agree, but adding in that HL has a uniquely large SA & FT class because they have so many offices that do restructuring. Even in NY, their class is generally a bit larger than the other top banks in RX.
how large is the NY class?
Want to add some color though I think the above is a great great start.
All-in I would highly recommend in the following order PJT, Lazard, Evercore, Houlihan, Moelis, Ducera, PWP, Greenhill, Guggenheim, Centerview, Jefferies, Rothschild, Lincoln, MB, Imperial. Would consider even FTI and A&M over MB, Imperial, and potentially even Lincoln.
Tier 1: PJT, Houlihan Lokey, Lazard (Agree)
Tier 1a: Moelis, Evercore (Agree, though I would rank Evercore higher than Moelis given culture, compensation, and exit ops. I think others may disagree, but I would add Ducera here. Creditor focused but easily a Tier 1a or a Tier 2)
Tier 2: Rothschild, Guggenheim, Centerview, PWP (I don’t think Rothschild is deserving to be Tier 2 - they lost both heads of RX early 2018 and wasn’t even on the league table in 2018. Group has fallen quite a bit. Would rank PWP has the highest out of firms listed in Tier 2 though would note a lot of energy-focused. However, fantastic culture and great compensation, can be a Tier 1a in future. Would swap Greenhill with Rothschild on your Tier 2 list. Neil Augustine went from Rothschild to Greenhill, Greenhill is on the up and up and doing very well)
Tier 2a: Jefferies, Greenhill (swap Greenhill with Rothschild and would note Jefferies is a great group but more tied to default rates - less out of court and more in court compared to others)
Tier 3: Miller Buckfire (would also add Imperial Capital and Lincoln here)
Greenhill is scaling up their practice, but saying Rothschild was not on the league tables in 2018 is false.
https://m.imgurDOTcom/a/i6NwP5A
Anyone who knows of Augustine would be wary of the culture at Greenhill Rx.
PWP and Guggenheim are also expanding and would also be great places to start along with Moelis, Evercore, PJT, Houlihan, Lazard, and Jefferies.
In some of the smaller groups it is important to look at specific deal experiences rather than league tables. Also noteworthy that in restructuring in particular, not everything makes the league tables. Often things are going on behind the scenes that don’t make the news, so it helps to talk to people in the group rather than on this forum.
Lincoln for RX? No, Imperial? No, i think you got the rest ok
Glad that someone agrees with me here on Ducera.
Have several friends at top RX shops and a few at top distressed funds, and this is very outdated. Merely relaying info for all those interested. Don't @ me.
Many RX deals aren't reported in league tables due to out of court nature, creditor engagements with lack of press releases, and 2019 has seen a lot of changes.
Tier 1 - true. I'd put EVR there too. Rapidly growing and crushing it in past few years, esp. 2019 Tier 2 - Centerview, Moelis, GUGG Note: PWP got a few great mandates this year, so may be indicative of a huge upswing. GUGG acquisition of Millstein hasn't panned out yet, but will pay dividends in the future - this year has been slow for them Tier 3 - PWP, MB, Ducera, Rothschild - PWP may be tier 2 if they keep it up. Rothschild had massive departures this year and is doing very poorly overall. EU office is great though. MB also won some impressive mandates this year and is moving into more creditor work - really turning around this year. Ducera is also a great shop that is expanding quickly, with Cramer (ex-PWP) at the top. MB/PWP/Ducera could usurp Rothschild RX if they keep it up and Rothschild declines further. Bottom Tier - Jefferies (on the real decline, high turnover), GHL (avoid), all the smaller shops you haven't heard of
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Is Jeff simply not getting mandates and are they losing senior talent? Also, what's wrong with Greenhill, is it culture issues? Lack of dealflow?
My ranking would be PJT, Lazard, HL, Evercore, Moelis, Gugg, Centerview, Greenhill, PWP, Rothschild, Jefferies and then Miller Buckfire
Overall about the same ranking. Nice to know there's a general consensus.
I am doing Rx and I have been told that to have a great career I need to lateral into EB or a better MM firm. I was told this because current analysts and several VP's said that at EB's, from an analyst level, you get more exposure to the client and are not spending your days grinding work out. How do I approach this? I only ask because of my non target status and I get blown off/not paid attention to by analysts at other shops.
Definitely PJT RX by a long shot is at the top in terms of sheer exit opps quality and mandate history. HL RX is a strong second, and then further below are LAZ RX and EVR RX. Especially PJT RX or HL RX are the ones that get contacted by HH for credit/distressed buy-side roles.
Agree - they kind of force their analysts to exit with the 2-year program, but if it works, it works. I think what he meant by the head hunter comment is that PJT RX and HL RX are the first groups that distressed buy-side reach out to when recruiting. Completely agree that anyone in RX who wants to interview with distressed will get it, but those two names are top of the bucket right now for exits.
Your comment is highly questionable. Yes PJT RSSG Is the best group in terms of exit opps but to say they have the BEST mandates is quite subjective. They definitely have the largest deal volume per analyst but LAZ has won more prominent mandates including Sears, Toys R Us, Forever 21, Boeing, and as of yesterday Macy’s.
Additionally, I know at least three people from top targets (HYPSW) that had offers between HL RX and other RX groups like EVR and they all did not choose HL. HL hasn’t been an advisor for either the government’s bailout plan (PJT, PWP, MoCo) or Boeing (EVR, LAZ) so there’s no indication that they are trending to win the most prominent mandates over other established EBs in RX.
I would agree that PJT is the best group, not always because they win the best mandates, but because their caliber of analysts, exits, and deal flow per analyst are very impressive. Following that, I would still put Laz and EVR above HL even on just a pure exits basis and where top targets would choose to go.
Regarding prominent mandates, don't forget that PJT won the mandates for Windstream and Purdue Pharma. Wouldn't say that winning debtor-side as opposed to creditor-side mandates is any guidance for which RX group is the best either - MoCo advised iHeart and is advising Whiting, and PJT advised creditors in both cases, but I wouldn't choose MoCo over PJT simply because of that.
As for HL, seems foolish to say "there's no indication that they are trending to win mandates over other established EBs in RX" based on the airline restructurings alone (to which I should mention, I wouldn't be surprised if they'll be advising another debtor). Don't think they're too worried about your opinion on their mandate-winning abilities either when they were tapped for the Fannie and Freddie recap by the government and for the WeWork RX by SoftBank this past year. Not sure how ranking mandate-winning trends even applies given the current situation when nearly every major player in RX can't take any on more assignments. Some of the top kids at my school (HYPW) choose HL every year, and I doubt they were too upset about it.
As for exits, just going to link the following post: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ebbb-class-of-2021-exits. Definitely seems as though exits are pretty similar for the 4 firms you mentioned, unless your information regarding exits says otherwise.
At the end of the day, the kids going to these shops are all incredibly bright and will be working on really interesting deals. Their decisions likely come down to where they liked the people the most and a preference between a purely RX-focused (PJT, EVR, HL) or a generalist program (MoCo, Laz) - I really doubt that they're paying too much attention to random rankings on WSO.
@DMKB From what perspective are you making this comment? If anyone at any of those groups wants an interview at a distressed fund then they’ll get it. There’s no distinguishing between them.
Would someone working at Rothschild RX also be able to get interviews at great distressed funds (King St, DK, York, etc) or would they need to lateral to a tier 1 shop like EVR/PJT?
York distressed closed. But, you’d very likely get an interview at a lot of distressed funds. Your school background may matter a little more though.
Also in terms of boutiques Ducera is quite a good firm for how little notoriety it gets here, they've landed on some pretty massive mandates. From what I hear it's quite top-heavy (Kramer was the former head of RX at PWP so no shortage of senior talent here) but if you're non-target, this might be the best place for you to look into. Looking at their analyst class, it is super all over the place from unconventional schools (Arizona St, U of Maryland, OSU, Florida Intl). Their interview process is also kind of like Allen & Co. in that it's pretty much an extended round table interview (a spread out superday of sorts) for a "first-round": essentially meeting 4-5 people individually over the phone to constitute whether or not you deserve a "superday" bid.
Can confirm after attending their superday. They do around 6-7 prime mandates per year and easily land in tier 2. Some of their work includes: Puerto Rico, Fullbeauty, Alpha Natural Resources, Shopko, Bristow Group, Toy's R Us, etc. And, they are adding people each year (double the team from its founding in 2015).
Frankly, I’m not sure if anyone here knows what they’re talking about. Moelis did 90bn in RX transactions in 2018. Evercore did 30bn. Let that provide some perspective.
These groups are all so small relative to M&A, I wouldn’t base rankings on things like “perceived culture.” And also I think all of this talk of tier 1 versus tier 1b, etc is all BS. There are good groups and then there’s everyone else.
Places worth working: Houlihan, PJT, Lazard, Moelis, Evercore, PWP, Rothschild (europe). Everywhere else is going to have literally less than like 4bn in deal flow. Probably not even worth discussing although I’m not ruling out the chance some MD at Ducera or Greenhill or wherever brings in a big one.
With all due respect, I’m not sure you know what you’re talking about. Now I agree with the point about rankings are futile because any one of those top firms would be great - but this is banking and analysts love to segment data, that will not stop. I have worked at a restructuring bank for many years and spent most of my career in restructuring so trust me when I say that any analyst that wants to do restructuring and has an offer for both Evercore NY RX and Moelis NY RX should choose Evercore RX based on exit ops, deal / team experience, transaction experience, compensation, and culture. In fact - Evercore beats Moelis in every category at the analyst level. I’m not saying not true for other levels, I can only speak definitively at the analyst level.
And anyone who works in RX would know that 2018 was a soft year so $90B would be an impressive grasp on the market. Are you sure you didn’t look at Moelis homepage and confused announced vs completed? How are you treating the elusive debtor-side role where only one bank gets the mandate compared to creditor mandates that often have many banks?
And yes it is rare, but some of the largest and most complex bankruptcies can span 1-3 years. If a bank somehow happens to be doing incredibly minimal / ops work on say Lehman which is finally confirmed in 2018 - making this up by the way - do you as an analyst really care? No, you want to be the analyst working on the deal in 2008 & 2009. Point is look at announced deals.
Regarding culture, don’t get me wrong, you will work a lot at both Evercore and Moelis. But you will he treated better at Evercore. Don’t take my word for it, reach out to friends / alumni and get their take on the subject if possible. I’ve yet to find one analyst who enjoyed their time at Moelis (as much as feasibly possible as a first year analyst in banking).
There is a high level of cyclicality in RX - though didn’t used to be this way. So if interested in RX, you work at a top shop, I can promise you’ll get enough transaction experience to be competitive with buddies at M&A shops. The nice thing about RX is that it’s specialized. M&A is a dime a dozen. So when we have periods of distress 2008-2010 and 2015-2016 pay and exit ops jump significantly, buyside funds will pay up a lot especially at the senior levels. And the big one is coming...you don’t have to have a complete 2008/2009 meltdown for distressed debt loan ratios to jump.
We all have our own opinions on individual group rankings and the group you should choose - if you’re lucky to have so many offers - is the group where you think you’ll be the most successful and where you like the team. But when it comes to the best groups, there are a select few where most share the same opinion. PJT RX (NOT THEIR M&A Group) is up there with GS TMT and MS M&A. Houlihan LA or NY RX and Evercore RX are a few laps behind but close.
And hope this goes without saying, but if you’re an absolute stud and have too many offers to count AND you absolutely know you want to do traditional private equity, don’t do RX.
What is your opinions about doing Rx at shops like Gugg/PWP/CV?
I really like where Guggenheim is heading into a potential recession / higher debt refinancing risk. The acquisition with Millstein (ignoring cultural differences and potential integration issues) I think will really pay dividends. I would work there if I had to start over again. Cant really speak to culture but I know the team has been expending and becoming more competitive taking down some interesting mandates.
Perella I think is a great all-around RX Group even post split resulting in Ducera. Culture is much better and hours - so I have heard - have become better due to elimination with face time pressure and unnecessary pitching.
I heard Centerview is a fantastic place to start a career but can’t really speak to the RX team. At the junior level, I would hope analyst program is generalist so you would have opportunity to work on RX & M&A. Not sure they’re as competitive on RX - though they seem to do well enough.
Regarding comments on PJT, all I’m saying is that it would be a mistake to think comp and exit ops would be the same in M&A as the RX group. I’ve spoken to many MDs there along with junior team and they’re trying to build out the strategic advisory group and will admit it’s not as competitive, yet. When looking at RX groups, it’s really helpful if you have strong industry coverage teams - helps from a junior perspective re: shared resources and to be more competitive pitching RX mandates. This isn’t lost on PJT.
Also want to point out unlike in M&A depending on when you join RX can make all the difference. I remember times in 2015-2016 the bank where I was working would win smaller mandates because no one else showed up - that’s just how busy everyone was at the time. More of a strategic thought for MDs but sometimes it can be helpful to win engagements despite little revenue vs opportunity cost because you’re then allowing other banks to win additional market share and it’s an opportunity to work with potentially different creditors and / or trade vendors. You see this a lot in industries facing structural demand issues like in retail. Lot of bankruptcies with the same sponsors and trade vendors.
Also don’t rule out A&M, Alix, and FTI. The work experience can be great. Really easy to lateral into a RX bank after a year or two at a firm like the ones I mentioned.
This is an open forum where we can share our ideas, facts, and opinions. I know I can be a little critical sometimes but always helpful in my opinion to offer support. So I welcome one who has a different viewpoint, but can’t learn if all that is said is “you don’t know what you’re talking about”
Definitely definitely agree that league tables can be a great start but not the end all. A lot of deals are done that are not made public. I can think of several $500mm+ to $1-2B deals for private companies that were never made public - we weren’t even able to advertise deal in quals per terms of the engagement.
Interesting point about RX being cyclical. I think because RX does so well during economic slumps people naturally lump it in a more stable category compared to M&A. Quick question: Do you know anything about HL culture (LA/NY)? Thanks for the insights.
HL RX Chicago > HL RX NY > HL RX LA
The group in LA is pretty good in terms of deal flow (HQ) but culture is pretty brutal especially compared to NY and Chicago. I only mention Chicago because most forget HL has a strong RX group there.
oh hello, HL Chicago Rx Analyst.
Could you explain HL RX Chicago > HL RX NY?
Between Greenhill, Jeff, and Ducera, which of the shops do you think would lend itself (no pun intended) to the best exposure, deals, and exits? I understand these are all "lower tier" rx groups, so to what extent do you think these hamstring you in recruiting for exit opps?
Damn, someone is NOT a fan of PJT M&A .
You don't know what your talking about.
Any thoughts on GLC Advisors' RX practice pay, reputation, and exit opps?
The $90bn vs $30bn was from Thomson. But you’re right I don’t really know what I’m talking about maybe Evercore is an obvious choice over Moelis, but my point is just that this is determined by what it’s like to work under the 4-6 MDs at any given time in each group and what deal flow looks like on any given year.
The numbers that you're quoting are going to be based upon raw face amount of liabilities, and so they'll be a bit misleading because the fees will vary based upon the nature of the project. All else being equal, debtor-side engagements are going to require more work and thus generate more fees than creditor assignments. To my knowledge, Moelis has a higher concentration of creditor work than Evercore which is going to skew the numbers.
Can speak about Lazard but not really the others.
Laz RX takes 3-4 each year out of the generalist summer analyst pool, for a total of ~6 full time analysts (this year have 4 incoming first years, higher than the 3 that it usually is). Usually is pretty competitive internally to get into the RX group as 10-12 of the 30 interns are vying for 3 spots.
At least at Laz the pay is the same across M&A/RX, unless you are a top bucket analyst. For distressed, you def want to be in RX otherwise will be very difficult, from an M&A group you may want to go to b school if you want to end up at a good distressed shop as I've heard.
RX is harder from a non-target at some banks that recruit M&A and RX separately (i.e. Evercore). At Laz isn't really any harder since is a generalist internship.
This is true for NY. It is worth noting the CHI office takes ~3 SA each year that are RX specific. For FT there are then ~3 analysts in NY and 3 in CHI
Opinions about BB RX like GS?
Can confirm that CV, Ducera, PWP, MB, and Guggenheim are all doing very well this year, with some of the former winning mandates over the traditional players like HL and PJT. Don't listen to some of these people who are regurgitating shit they read from 3+ years ago. RX deal flow varies year to year, so it's foolish to rank RX shops like people do with M&A / coverage groups. MDs float around a lot too - see CV/PWP/Ducera/Rothschild MDs if you want concrete evidence. You don't see many ch22's, so repeat business in RX isn't as accretive as it is in M&A/ECM/DCM.
Just wanted to provide some more detail on Greenhill because it’s still relatively new. Know they’ve been doing very well recently in terms of dealflow and hiring heavily, and a new MD is joining in August (from Lazard, was on exec board of Toys). As mentioned it can be hard to see how Rx groups are really performing because a lot of deals go undisclosed, especially if the wins are recent. The seniors will go to bat for you in buyside recruiting if you do good work - know some analysts who have recruited so far went TPG Special Sits, Cerberus PE, Centerbridge, and a distressed HF. Definitely work hard but zero facetime policy. Overall, still up and coming but exciting place to be with the opportunity to work directly with top MDs in the industry.
Pm'd you for more details
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Province?
thoughts on RX in the UK - top players? League rankings?
PJT is the best in UK. Rothschild and HL have good Rx groups too.
Moelis has some decent HF exits as well in the UK but PJT is top notch.
Any info on the Rx scene in LA? Know Moelis and HL are there but cant find any details / other shops
Moelis in LA does absolutely 0 RX as of at least end of 2020. Sure. You may be brought on to help create a CIM for a 363 Sale if overlap in industry coverage, but don’t make the mistake thinking you’d be RX out in Moelis LA. If you’re looking for IBD RX in LA, I’d start and stop with Houlihan. Same with Rothschild, no RX in LA. I think recently Ducera has opened an office in LA. I would assume a continuation of their RX group, but double check. Would be worth a look as well and creditor focused, similar to HL.
You can do some RX at Moelis LA, but you'd have to work together with folks in other offices. Afaik, the seniors in the office are mostly focused on media and consumer.
Do you believe Gugg's RX team is preforming better than Centerview and PWP? Has the Millstein acquisition paid off?
how big are the rx class sizes for each firm and are they growing
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