UBS v. DB v. Barclays
Thoughts on the three groups compared to each other? NYC IBD. Strong networks at DB and UBS, far less developed at Barc.
Thoughts on the three groups compared to each other? NYC IBD. Strong networks at DB and UBS, far less developed at Barc.
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Do you have offers?
DB and UBS, superday at Barc
Barc seems like a stronger franchise than both and is definitely in a much better shape than DB
What particular coverage/product group are you interested in?
Again, depends on a lot of variables including location / product / long term goals (PE exits or Career?). A bit different from a bank like JPM, who is dominant in almost all categories mentioned above. I will try to go into more depth:
Assuming this is the US: BARC >> DB > UBS
Barclays (or more like Lehman)'s US operations are frankly just a lot stronger than DB and UBS. Not to mention from a firm stability standpoint, DB is going through major changes (if you read the news, DB is slashing comp by 1/3), and UBS' US operations are still at point of slow recovery (their major IB improvements came from EU and Asia via their equities franchise). With that said, DB's LevFin/Sponsors (aka. Lending) franchise in the US is still very strong, and UBS' US M&A franchise has improved greatly.
Couple points: historically DB's sponsors and Levfin group have had great exits to PE due to their strength in HY bonds and LevLoans (along with CS), but BARC had caught up tremendously in the LevFin franchise especially in the US and UK. UBS's LevFin & Sponsors had great exit opps too due to the relevant skillset they acquired, but their standing in the US LevFin market had dropped considerably due to their extra aggressive downsizing of the balance sheet. In terms of exit opps, BARC does all the modeling in-house, so their coverage groups are the place to be if you want PE exits, with the most popular groups being NatRes, Power&Utilities, Sponsors (does the LBO modeling, not LevFin), Industrials, Healthcare (although 5 just got poached by CS recently), and TMT - generally in that order.
Assuming this is EMEA: DB >> BARC > UBS
DB is very dominant in the EU (usually top 2/3 in terms of overall EU IB fees, although whether it'll stay that way is questionable due to DB's restructuring) and are dominant in almost every category/product within IB - if we're speaking Europe, then it's no brainer that DB is the place to go, given your choices.
Regarding BARC and UBS: BARC is great if you're aiming general DCM, UK M&A, and just recently, EU LevFin. BARC is still growing their equities franchise and recently just barely makes it to the top 10 in ECM (and with a considerable gap with the other BBs). On the other hand, UBS is exceptionally strong in ECM in Europe (top 2-3), okay-ish in M&A (top 9-11), and very weak in anything debt related. As mentioned, DB is dominant across all products in Europe.
Assuming this is Asia: UBS > DB >>> Barclays
Barclays is essentially non-existent in Asia - they did have an "okay-ish" presence when former CEO Bob Diamond tried to push Barclays into the whole "global investment bank" strategy, but significantly pulled back in Asia afterwards. They do have a small M&A group there for what it's worth, but they're there more just to breakeven / keep the office lights running, moreso than trying to compete for the league tables. They do a decent amount of debt deals though in Asia, but Asian debt deals do not generate much fees (a cultural thing).
On the other hand, DB and particularly UBS do exceptionally well in Asia - the nature of IB in Asia is that majority of the deals will focus on Equities, which is what UBS is particularly strong at (heck, even their CEO was an equities banker) and given the depth of their WM franchise in Asia, UBS essentially leads the ECM tables in that region (top 1-2). DB does well in Asia across all products as well, not much to be said here. And to follow up, Barclays - who does not have an established equities franchise outside of the US - does not have much presence in Asia.
Hope this provides an overview - I could go into more depth on each topic but I might just end up typing up an essay which I doubt anyone would read... Feel free to PM me with any specific questions.
Where would you say CS falls in? Specifically within the US.
CS hasn't been doing very well in advisory as of late in Europe. Tend to be better in the US as I understand
CS on the up & up though. Much more so than UBS or DB in EMEA
Among those 3, I would choose it both in EMEA and the US, yes. Then again it depends so much on the group and people you met
I would say Barclays >> UBS >> DB
UBS and DB is a toss up, but the recent trend seems that UBS is going up, while DB is going down.
Also, with the recent news on Cryan's statement about bankers - it doesn't seem like even your own house is rooting for you if you're in DB.
Need help! DB vs. Barclays vs. UBS (Originally Posted: 09/13/2011)
Guys, could you please rank these in order of attractiveness? I need to focus my recruiting efforts and would like to apply to one more bank of these three.
Thanks so much for your thoughts WSW01. To the extent it makes a difference, I'm actually at the Associate level, so I don't expect it will be as easy / acceptable for me to jump to another bank / industry in a few years after I've developed a certain skill-set. I'm really trying to focus on investment banks that will offer substantial long-term potential. I'm a bit weary of UBS right now, but historically that would have been an easy first choice for me. Any additional thoughts you guys have would be much appreciated.
A completely random and biased vote, but UBS>DB>>>>>>Barclays
I'm assuming you want to do PE afterwards, so I'd go with BarCap, UBS, then DB
UBS still has surprisingly good placement, but not looking stable atm
The simple truth is that you need to apply to all three. And if you must choose one, you will eventually and naturally gravitate to the group with the whom you best connect and click with. The people and the culture (albeit cliche) are paramount at the associate level.
In terms of current strength and prestige, I would rank Deutsche Bank above Barclays and both of the former far far above UBS. Since you are entering at the associate level, there is more a long-term mindset and you want to commit to the best possible platform.
Deutsche Bank is by far the most stable at the moment. While Barclays and UBS have both announced major layoffs in the past year, DB has not and continues to aggressively pursue additional hirings. In fact, I would even question UBS' future commitment to investment banking as its management has literally come out and said that going-forward, UBS Investment Bank's role will be to facilitate its Wealth Management division. DB is currently #1 in Europe and a top three player in Asia. Although it has a top 5 global investment banking platform, it is still very lean in the US. You have a lot of opportunities for personal and professional growth while performing without the fear of layoffs. As a post-MBA, you should align yourself to the best platform. Go with one that is growing as opposed to one that is retreating.
SA IBD: Barclays vs. UBS vs. DB (Originally Posted: 02/19/2010)
In process of deciding between SA offers from Barclays, UBS, and DB (all NY IBD).
I am interested in M&A or possibly a coverage group like FIG or industrials. If I am looking for live deal experience and great exit ops which offer would be best?
Based on M&A league tables as of 4Q09, Barclay's Capital is the best of those three offers
I would surely take barcap which is mid BB vs the two lower ones.
Does anyone have any firsthand experience regarding the PE exit ops at BarCap, UBS, and DB?
Since you specifically stated FIG and industrials. Last year, DB hired on most of the FIG and industrial bankers from BofA ML. So it should be a good place to be.
DB
ubs vs db vs barclays (Originally Posted: 01/12/2013)
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DB
DB = BarCap >>>>>>>>> UBS. DB LevFin sends people to megafunds every year
DB LevFin is sexy as fvck. My boy is killing it in that group
UBS is not what it used to be.
DB.
The posting above is correct in terms of "DB->Bar->UBS" however for a SA would be smart to veer on the side of "Where would I get an offer".
UBS (everyone knocks on this company now so my B for the reiteration) is seeing a lot of struggles so will have less "approved" slots to give out so it simply drops off fast.
So just look at the offers you get and make sure you choose the highest ranked one where you'll get an offer. It's just a summer, but the key is getting the offer back.
I would probably say DB, though it would be tough for me between DB and Barclays. The people I've spoken with at both firms at the analyst level have very different things to say- DB the job security is not nearly as good at Barclays, and they are the type of place that has regular layoffs across different groups, and this contributes to below average morale and uncertainty. A positive (or negative) of Barclays is that I believe when you get the internship you do not interview for a specific group but instead list preferences- this is good in that you can get into their top groups but also can get stuck in something you don't want. Not sure why you assume you'll be placed into the top groups, as much of that is very political/who you know more than anything else.
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