My FT offer just got pulled.
Title says it all. Was just notified that the MM firm I interned at over the summer is no longer gonna be taking me on FT due to the firms slow start to the year and layoffs across various groups…with just a few months until I was supposed to start I’ve been scrambling to set up catch up calls with bankers I previously networked with to try and get my foot in the door and find an opening.
Am I fucked? This basically came out of nowhere and I’m feeling pretty nervous that I won’t be able to land something else before July. Would really appreciate any advice and guidance. If anyone knows of any teams looking for an analyst to start as early as May please let me know or PM me
Is this WB? So sorry that you are going through this
Name and shame the firm. Sorry to hear, absolutely brutal.
Truist
Are you OP?
Not fucked. You will be fine. Just won't be as relaxed for some time. May need to settle into a different part of the finance ecosystem
Same thing happened to me with an internship with COVID. Will just need to start someplace else (Big4, Rating Agency) and work your way in.
I didn't get a return offer last August at a decent MM group and have been networking and interviewing at literally no name shops/corp banking for the past year with no luck. 12 first rounds 5 super days. If you just got your offer pulled keep your head up but FT recruiting is fucking brutal
Quick question! I’m an incoming summer analyst (intern) at a bank this summer, going into my senior year so hoping to do well enough to receive a FT offer so I can be set once I graduate. I’m very nervous I won’t get one though given the current state of the economy, and I know I should start FT recruiting for other banks during the late summer/early fall so I can apply once applications open. Do people generally wait to apply to these other banks until after their internships ended (did you?) and they confirmed they wouldn’t get a FT offer, or did you start FT recruiting during your summer internship? I’m so confused about the process. Thanks!
I've been informed that the firm I will be working for this summer isn't hiring full-time, so I'm in the same boat. Need some advice
What firm?
What geography and form is this?
Name drop pls
This is so dumb dude. If he outs the firm as JPM or Qatalyst do you really think people won’t go for those firms?
JPM isn't MM
both firms arent MM lmao
Stay in your lane, Research Associate in AM
Fuck that firm this is horrible. At least give you time to recruit this is a terrible look. Name drop if you can
People claiming you aren’t fucked are lying to you. You have 2 months to find a job that mostly wraps up FT recruiting by October (6 months ago)
do you go to a target? If so your school should absolutely give the bank a ton of crap for this
I’m from a non-target and I’m not diversity. My school has a terrible career center and my family has no prior connections to the finance industry. I worked my ass off to break in to IB on my own and this whole situation just sucks
Just some perspective here- “fucked” is a relative term that you control the meaning of. I’m not in finance but went through a terrible time to break into SWE during 2020. Here’s a few random thoughts I have:
You need to name and shame or the industry will never correct this behavior.
sorry about this
I would look at taking an extra semester or year of school honestly if possible.
100% this. take some extra school, breathe, and find a new job
this
Just curious, what would taking extra schooling offer?
Taking an extra year will give you more time to recruit for FT, as you’ll be able to fill in for empty spots left from shitty interns/rejected return offers. A friend of mine did this and it worked out great for him. Would highly recommend doing this.
I come from a semi target where a lot of us don’t decide we want to go for banking until, like, sophomore year. It’s pretty common for kids here to take a semester off to build up more experience before they recruit. Say a student didn’t decide he wanted to baking until his 2022-23 sophomore year, — they would recruit during 2024 rather than 2023 to have more time and make themselves a very competitive candidate. Not sure if this would apply to this specific situation, but it’s no problem to graduate a bit later if that’s what it takes. It’s not a race.
Gives you more time to recruit? Obviously
I think the idea is it’s easier to recruit as a student vs trying to lateral from a non IB gig
Unsure though
might not be plausible for everyone
Name and shame. Gotta be WB.
I'm on the name-and-shame train here. Money is also on Blair given what I've heard about the cuts they've made.
Anecdotally I've heard chatter that RayJay industrials, Canaccord, and Aeries Partners are still hiring. Good luck out there bro.
RJ industrials is in Tampa no? Florida weather/COL + NY pay would be crazy.
The Tampa Bay Area has had one of the highest rates of inflation in the country since the lockdowns. Rent in particular is very expensive down there.
Not really, most bankers are in NYC/Chicago/Memphis. The team is hiring but not 1st years.
PM me
Name and shame. Scared this might be the same MM firm as mine.
Firm is not WB. Incoming class is starting in the fall this year (not July per OP).
If he said he was starting at an MM in the Fall then everyone would know this was Blair, and OP seems like he doesn’t want to name drop the firm.
OP, I’d seriously consider name-dropping whoever did this. It is so fucked up to take away a kid’s job a month before they graduate, and prospects recruiting at this firm deserve to know that this is something that they’ve done and that it could happen to them. This is a prime example of why you shouldn’t feel bad about reneging.
F the firm - what company is this OP?
Maybe apply for MSF as backup plan. Gives you another year of recruiting and a decent brand name on resume. I think Vandy last round of recruiting ends next week, so gotta be quick. Probably the only school you really want to consider for this tbh
Or like 7 super solid EU programs! LBS/HEC/cambridge/st gal, bocconi etc
Fisher MSF deadlines are May 30th, might be something to look at.
He said decent brand name
Fisher?
Deadline is May 1
Deadline is May 1
.
OP here. Ideally I’d name drop the firm and give prospects a heads up but as of now I’m unaware of anyone else that this happened to and would like to remain anonymous for the sake of confidentially and not screwing myself over and this getting back to anyone that could potentially bite me in the ass later along the line.
I am doing my best to come to terms with this situation and rather then dwelling on it, I came to the this form to seek guidance on how to move forward and hopefully land another opportunity. In that regard I would greatly appreciate any insight on what I can be doing to best position myself.
Is it worth my time to try catch-up with people I had previously networked with for SA and explain my situation? I’ve heard stories of those one off situations where a kid drops from a class and someone else has been able to land a job a month before starting with a FT class. Realistically what is the best approach here? I’m feeling very anxious and overwhelmed
can you PM me?
How would name dropping the firm who fired you screw you over? You're not affiliated with that firm anymore, and mentioning the firm that fired you is not going to get you blacklisted lol. If you're not aware this happening to anyone in your intern class maybe there's more to the story. Why were you the only one let go?
Dude ya just drop the name. You’re no longer associated w the firm and you’d help people avoid it.
They screwed you over and you’re still protecting them?
Hey OP, just want to reiterate don't give up. Don't sit there depressed about this. Life is unfair, play the hand you are dealt. People who I've heard this happen to have really struggled to get back on their feet.
You got this
Hey man, in a similar boat with the bank I interned at last year not having enough full time spots. Been through so many superdays and no offer yet. It's sooooo tough out here, but it’s important to try to stay positive so that it doesn’t affect your interview performances and networking efforts
Can you at least give the city
It’s NYC
PM me
Seriously please name as soon as you get another offer man. This is a huge no-no in the industry and if you stay quiet then that just lets them get away with it.
If we had positions open at my firm then I would definitely pull for you fwiw
Name and shame them, OP. It might stop them from doing it to someone else, which is small consolation to you in this moment, but makes a world of difference all the same.
Echo above comments on name dropping the bank. They may even get concerned that their reputation is in taters and may consider giving you back the offer as no legit bank wants to have a fked up rep
Drop the name so this actually becomes a trend and gives power back to candidates in the future. Make it a strong point that any firm in the future pulling offers will have consequences versus getting away with it like it’s nothing and continuing to treat people like nothing
NAME!!!!!!! WE DEMAND THE NAME!!!
People are asking for name drops as if that will change anything. You really think schools will give a shit about 1 person that got fucked on that doesn't even go to their school? Maybe if this kid does an op-ed in the WSJ or some shit about firm culture and so on
Just leave the kid alone, already going through enough
I get both angles. The kid is going through a lot and is being 100% rational. Sharing the firm is all downside and no upside for them. He or she is right to have told the shrieking mob to fuck off. I’d do the same
That said, this is completely pathetic and bush league. I would love to know the firm so I can insult it in text threads. Im not about to beg this guy to out them or anything though lol
Putting the house on William Blair!
.
Will u underwrite that? I want to take a line
Not sure if this is helpful but I heard Stephens is looking to expand right now.
All of you repeating "name and shame" like parrots are ridiculous.
At the end of the day, the owners of the firm took a difficult decision in order to protect their investment, work and net worth, and hopefully in the best interest of all current stakeholders including employees.
Is it legal? If no, they should be sued. If yes (which I presume but I dont live in the US), then that's life.
Would it have been better to take him but fire him 2 months later? Or fire someone else instead? Or not pay bonuses to the analysts who worked 80h weeks for 1 year with no holidays?
IMHO in times of difficulties, it makes moral sense to prioritise current employees (but sorry to say, morality is very rarely the main concern for people who run businesses, across all industries and geographies...)
Please MS me all you want, I like it.
I am as a capitalist as it gets, but the only ridiculous thing on this post is your rationale.
This isnt a Mom and Pop shop, i am sure that if interns could identify the turmoil thats was about to happen, so would banks and they shouldnt have given offers to more kids that they could sustain and then fire them 2mo before they start their careers ( how tf is this moral?).
And because you seem like an “econ hardo”, I would advise you to revise your labour econ classes, its all about demand and supply. Name dropping will help future candidates make more informed decisions and produce a better equilibrium in the labour market.
Your post lacks cohesion. No need to be that aggressive intern
bro please go outside
He called the MS bluff & you guys still proceeded to give him 21 MS?? Boy are you guys cruel!
Edit: it's now 36 MS😲
I know what to say to get MS (or SB...)
It's a shame this website has progressively turned into a big echo chamber for moronic 1st year analysts (at best) instead of being a forum where you can debate in a constructive way.
Sorry to hear that this happened to you. Shitty thing to have to deal with during your last semester of school and shame on the firm for being so unprofessional.
In terms of next steps, I think you know what you need to do. Assuming your goal is to stay in IB, exhaust every possible resource to make this happen and don’t be discouraged if you don’t make much traction at first — just keep pushing. Given the timeline, also consider non-IB roles in finance. If you aren’t able to land IB, it’s not the end of the world. It’s a long career, and if you go into your first job with a strong work ethic, a good attitude, and a strong desire to learn as much as you can at a young age, you’ll be just fine no matter how this shakes out. Best of luck!
Lol at thinking name dropping will discourage recruiting. Too many hardo kids desperate to break into IB.
Kids have died at Moelis and kids still jerk themselves off over getting an offer there. If getting killed won't stop the hardos, nothing will.
Multiple people died at Moelis? Do tell
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/02/business/dealbook/more-details-on-ba…
This I assume.
The only people it would sway would be those deciding between Bank A or Bank B as a tipping factor.
Is it Lincoln?
No way this is WB. Spoke with some MD at WB, some folks felt like the firm over fired. I doubt this is a true MM, given that I have friends at most MM and would be the first to hear about this. It’s probably a one off scenario or more story behind this scene given that the OP is so reluctant to drop firm name.
I heard a few incidence where firms are consolidating office, for example shutting down NYC office to go to Chi / CLT given firing of senior bankers at NYC office but still offer incoming 1st year to relocate.
OP just pmed me. It's Stifel!!!!
Is this real?
Real
Anybody able to back this up with more evidence than just one case of an offer being rescinded?
Is this just one case or a firm-wide cull?
Tbh wouldn’t be shocked. This was one of my guesses. Weak NYC dealflow and MM bank.
Truist and Raymond James and Lincoln were my others
.
Not surprising. Stifel is like a trashy exotic dancer in a world of models.
some people like them trashy
You say that like it’s a bad thing.
Stifel regularly fired first years in the last couple years, not surprised
Bro I get people wanna know the name of the company but OP is not tryna take on the downside here, this aint funny
Also not surprised here. Heard they blindsided some folks expecting promotions a few months ago. Crappy bonuses last summer that didn’t capture any of 2021’s upside. COVID was also a shit show there for incomings - offers were delayed and deferred left and right, some by a whole year. Sorry to OP if this is true, and to any prospects, avoid this firm unless you have no other choice because they have a terrible track record at this point
Should have take the +1000 odds
Stifel is a shit middle market bank
*following
Guessing this is WF
Nobody refers to WF as MM.
What does they refer to Wells as?
No chance it's Wells. Lot of groups are pretty busy right now
Are you some kind of retard or something?
What’s your view on WF?
following
What city? PM me
I'm also for dropping the name. These firms recruit for jobs starting ONE YEAR in advance with the assumption you will not reneg or recruit elsewhere, essentially handicapping college students. Two months out before start date is an asinine move for relatively cheap labor in comparison to higher ranks. They need to be held accountable for their side of the handshake agreement.
Very sorry to hear that, my thoughts and prayers are with you, hope you can find an opportunity during these rough times!
Definitely need to name drop. How much worse can the firm fuck you over at this point?
People saying WB are incredibly stupid—they just did a mass layoff and it’s an advisory business, not a bank with existential balance sheet issues or something.
Some of the other banks need to catch up, WB was just early to the party. Also, pretty sure they don’t have starting analysts in NY and it’s only experienced hires in that office.
My bet is Jeff, Lazard, or Ray j
It was not Lazard
Why are you lumping Lazard in here lol? OP would probably not be referring to them as MM, and 'Lazard MM' was absorbed into the PCA group from what I know - no longer exists as a separate entity.
Why those other firms? Jeff, Lazard MM, and RJ have all been doing well. My guess was Cowen with TD acquiring them or Oppenheimer.
Honestly didn’t know the Lazard mm change—thanks for letting me know before some other Lazard analyst gets upset with me grouping them into mm.
As for the other individual, No banks are “doing well”. Virtually everyone has a staff problem with a headcount set up for the end of 2021 and they all need to reduce headcount. I don’t know why the cyclicality of IB is so hard for people on the forum to understand. Analysts want to pick winners and losers or good firms and bad firms when everyone is going to experience a slowdown and reality check with worse deal flow, worse bonuses, and management trying to reduce headcount. This is an industry wide problem not isolated at a few firms. They are literally down ~50% YoY and that was down ~50% from the prior year. Staff should be reduced by at least ~10% everywhere with obvious comp declines too. Who knows how long this gully lasts, but I think almost no one thinks 2023 or early 2024 are going to go back to 2021 levels.
Also, just because firms are hiring, doesn’t mean you aren’t reducing headcount. Getting fresh undergrad analysts in there that are relatively cheap hires is important for talent development and sustainability of the org. They could be cutting associates, VP’s, and senior analysts, and deferring start dates and still need to hire.
Is anyone wondering if there is more to this story?
If this is a one-off decision to pull the offer, isn't that odd? My guess is there is something specific to this situation we don't know.
If broader, wouldn't someone have heard of others?
Yeah I agree we need to context - anybody have further insights?
Maybe a specific product/industry group downsized
Maybe something happened in background check. Something is off.
If he already interned, why would they re-run the background check? Do they no longer do background checks for interns?
Seems like Berenberg behaviour.
Here's what you should do -
Overall the way to leverage your situation best is to use the fact you had a FT offer to your advantage by explaining that to people you reach out to. It explains why you're unemployed vs them just thinking you are someone who didn't get a job.
Also if you happen to be rich, maybe just take another semester at school and graduate late.
Corp dev isn’t hiring right?
I work at a well known company for CD and we haven't slowed down hiring. At least with us it seems better off than the downturn in the banking sector for sure.
The thing is with inflation / rent increases the pay is now rough to be honest though -
NAME DROP THE FIRM
Not in IB but am an older member of this forum (58) and have been around the block a few times. First off, sorry this has happened. Plain and simple it sucks. If you were my kid, I'd be irate. However, as I've had to say at least 1000 times in my career, "It is what it is." Where you go from here is up to you.
Most of you on this forum, simply because it's how it's been laid out to you, think your career is a linear formula. Do great in HS > go to great college > get top internship > get FT offer > move to PE , etc. Yes that does happen, BUT it is nowhere close to being the only way to "get there" (whatever that even means). Much of life is circuitous, not linear. They'll be setbacks, laterals. For those of you familiar with the old video game Frogger, it's far more common to be like that. Starts and stops and reverses and laterals. Eventually you get where you want to be AND that local is a moving target. This may prove to be a blessing in disguise. You may start in a different area and learn you love it and pursue a career in that.
Not saying what happened to you doesn't suck because it does. Think about other areas of finance (or other areas completely) that are of interest. Corp Banking, AM, Corp Fin. How about Financial Consulting or RX ? How about LDPs? Analytics jobs? Fintech? There's all kinds of stuff out there. You were good enough to get the offer without the help of being a target, diversity, etc. Be resourceful and you'll get in somewhere. Kill it and give liking it a shot. Who knows, you may. Even if you don't, kill it so you can build your resume. Your first job out of college is just that. Most kids will spend a year or two there and move elsewhere. Lots of IB shops will hire "professional hires" as new analysts after a yr or two of professional experience. Not as many as newly minted grads but they do it. If it comes to that, so you missed 2 yrs of analyst comp. Who cares? 99.9% of the workforce misses that every yr. In a different role, you may actually pick up great skills that you would have otherwise not developed which will make you far more marketable. Maybe you'll get in with a top firm like GS, JPM, MS.
It will be tough to land something for July but who cares. If you do, awesome. If it's not until January, not the end of the world. Believe me, life will throw these obstacles at you all the time. This is giving you the opportunity to build REAL resilience. I have a feeling you'll come out on top!
Chin up. Best of luck!
Yes, this is a shitty situation. Yes, its going to make things hard in the short term. No, this is not a career defining moment. As someone who started their career completely outside of finance due to mediocre grades and general unawareness of how to properly go about recruiting, it is very much possible to work your way into the spot you want to be in even if you don't land there immediately.
If you already landed an internship and got asked back initially, you clearly have the tools to make it in IB. Be patient but diligent. Best of luck!
To even make it more tangible from my previous post, son is doing quite well and enjoying a career that he hadn't planned on. Was never looking at IB but the last thing he probably thought about was sales. He was leaning towards consulting but never gave that a dedicated concerted effort. Prior to getting a superday at an RX shop, he took an internship with a fop firm in AM. Was more about the firm than the role. The role was sales. Frankly I didn't think he'd like it nor be that good at it but he killed it in the internship, really liked it and took the FT offer. Going on 2 yrs now and he's a leader in his area, loves the firm. really likes what he does, and is navigating the best path to get on his desired long term track within the firm which will fetch him significant dollars.
Not suggesting you go the sales route but simply showing a scenario that was definitely not planned. He likely would have killed that superday (does well in interviews) and would have started out in RX consulting. He was just so happy to have an offer from a great company that he stopped recruiting and didn't do any recruiting senior yr. Just figured he go with it. Went his way and hasn't looked back. This type of story happens all the time!
Rickle has it right, but it's so hard to explain this. You see you may be fucked, but I wouldn't even worry about that. Whether you're gonna succeed, depends on two things:
1. What you do next.
2. How lucky you get doing it.
I've been there, more than once. More than anyone I know, and I always came back with a better gig! But that's my story. Many people want a clear track where they do a job at a bank, and then go to MBA or whatever. But at some point you figure out that you have to make your place. And for some of us that's sooner rather than later. I'm older than most people here, but I'm not 58 yet. I have still some time to learn, but enough years behind me to understand what rickle is saying.
So here's what I'll tell you. If you want to work in this industry, and you're good, and you believe in yourself, you'll be ok. You should absolutely call everyone you know and tell them what happened, and what you can do if they help you. And if nobody bites, call more people. And if that doesn't work, call smaller shops. You have to play the cards you were dealt, and nobody gets a winning hand every time. But if you really want to work in this business, you really can't let a setback like this get you down, because you're gonna see much worse.
Mind sharing your story? Could really use some motivation now.
Happened to every graduate batch going into labour market when crisis/recession/market downturn hit.
Keep grinding for finance roles, kill your ego and go for no name bucket shops as well.
Be open-minded with career paths, well, this incidence might spit you out of finance for good especially if your resume is blank and have to choose non-finance roles for full-time work. Very hard to break back in after a gap. You will have to accept this as a great possibility.
bump
PM me bud, let’s see if I can help out
I'd start considering networking with the no-names around your college and hometown, if you're near a medium/big city. They're a great stepping stone and their hiring needs aren't as macro-trend driven like the BBs and MM wall street firms.
Really sorry to hear. One idea could be interesting to recruit ft starting this august after this cycle of interns and chat leading up to that. Cause rn positions r not open to my knowledge. Hope that is helpful
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