“Soft Generation”
My favorite thing on this app is when the old heads come on here and talk about the new class and younger people being soft. It's always hilarious because their definition of soft is us having the backbone to push against them and stand up for ourselves where as they just sucked their seniors off and got pushed around for fun…tragic, you're not mad about juniors being soft you're mad because you weren't strong enough to have your own back. But still, it's not too late for your nuts to drop (no offense to the ladies)
Edit: This is not me complaining about the hours, I’m good. I’ve probably hit my “runners high”. I’m just saying some of you need to look inwards
Idk TBH I am part of gen z and see a lack of respect for elder's across the board in my experience. Even if some of them are rude and rant about how weak we are I just think to myself we are all gonna end up like that thinking are way was better it's natural.
You're certainly not wrong, but this happens with all generations. It's gonna happen with our kids and us to for whatever reason. Any Gen Z kid who think's were truly going to be the "cool generation" is just wrong.
You're right tbh. Because of the internet, this generation is far more knowledgable about life, careers etc than any generation previously was at this age. Older generations basically had it drilled into them to get a good job and work hard in it to climb the ladder and be successful. Whereas our generation knows about pay and conditions for pretty much every career and therefore takes a lot less shit when they know people in tech etc have better working conditions. Not to mention FIRE and investing is way more popular this generation so a lot of people see success as grinding out a high paying job and then retiring early rather than reaching a certain position in an organisation.
Ahh yes, the intern telling us how great and knowledgeable their generation is. Certainly doesn’t make anyones points.
Our generation is trash but you can't deny we possess the most knowledge about the world than any generation has in history. If you're getting treated like shit by your bank it takes 2 seconds to load up WSO and read how other people are getting treated.
I just laugh when Gen X managers talk about how newer generations are soft. It's like telling a British teenager in the early 1900s "when I was your age I worked on all fours in a coal mine - how dare you pursue better working conditions than me, you ungrateful spoiled child."
Man, every generation has pushed back. They get upset when they're older and are the ones being pushed back on. It's the cycle of life.
I got a chuckle out of this great example from over the weekend. It's just pandering, culture war retardation from someone who not only never held a role in high finance but certainly never held a role in the digital age of zoom meetings, email, skype, etc. There are so so so many examples of entitled, "coddled", losers, but this is just lazy hack reporting from a clown.
https://nypost.com/2022/09/03/coddled-wall-streeters-in-for-a-rude-back-to-the-office-awakening/
the New York Post is just a trashy tabloid. Like how they reported in people complaining about bonuses here.
You're not wrong but it's also my guilty pleasure. Best practice for reading the post is 1.) Get a sense of what happened from the headline 2.) laugh at the terrible reporting 3.) google the story to get the actual facts.
Charles Gasparino is the author of the piece. What a clown. What an absolute shitpost on his part. No history of working in finance, yet he is so sure of himself that all of the gen Z wall street professionals are soft. You know what is soft? Being a male journalist covering finance despite never working a day in the industry. Then, stating your assumptions as fact when you never once set foot on wall street, at least in an operating capacity.
I would count as one of the old timers and I appreciate your perspective. Although I never did the IB thing, was actually in the RESULTS (eat what you kill) economy, 100% commission form Day 1, so that was really hard (vs. just having to endure long hours in the office while still making bank). From my vantage point, most things in life evolve. It seems like IB hasn't really done that (and many things in finance are slow to the take considering the tech available). Personally I think the whole IB process needs to change as constant throwing deals against a wall to see what sticks approach is really insulting to anyone with any business / sales acumen. The MD could universally benefit from real sales training and they would find far more success and far fewer hours (required of everyone).
All that said, these threads come off as entitled. I think that's what the old timers feel. "How dare you young whipper snappers complain about facetime...we didn't even have computers. Had to calculate everything by hand, etc." It's more about tone, not just self preservation. The facts are they should be open to new and better and you should be respectful and see the value of their knowledge in helping groom your career. You should be willing to indulge them as they have been there done that. Change requires an incremental transition. That's far more natural than moving to WFH overnight.
In reality, the pandemic has sped these issues up by 10-20 yrs almost overnight. Think about it. How many seniors were using mobile banking until they were forced to thanks to the pandemic. Now they're comfortable and aren't likely going back. That would have happened eventually but it took a shock to the system to operate in 2020. Lots of industries will be vastly transformed and are getting there far quicker than otherwise would have. IB will likely evolve. I think it will be client driven and as you see more 30 somethings move to leadership (both at the banks and clients) they'll be a different feel for all of this.
Once one brave bank makes some real changes, you'll see market forces move to that direction. Until then, it will be very much business as usual. Considering your income relative to the rest of society, nobody really feels bad for you or gives a crap about your plight. Just reality.
I wonder when we will have a Gen Z president. If Gen Z started in 1997, then 2032 would be the earliest. 2050-2070 seems more likely though.
Highly optimistic of you to suggest we will have a “President” in 2050-2070
Too true
Whose fault do you think it will be?
older Gen X'ers are like boomers in that they came of age when the cost of living and wage/salaries were in line. Their whole outlook is skewed.
Having HR protect your weekends, install quiet rooms and accommodate your emotional support animals is not having backbone.
Respond to an email from a senior person, with your name, and tell him the deadline he just gave doesn’t work for you because you need to balance work and life. Then you have backbone.
I’ll be the first to admit I didn’t have the balls to do it. And you don’t either.
It will take enough warriors to do this to bring on change.
Perhaps it is just a matter of realigning the employee cohort. IB requires neither great intellect nor creativity. It is quite possible the students at T20 schools are not the best fit for IB at this point and have different expectations regarding work life balance. There are plenty of others who would be willing to assume the IB hours and might be better suited to the role.
Aight fam lemme know how all of that "pushing back against your employer" shit goes when the layoffs start and you're unemployed with a thumb inside your own dickhole.
Kidding, kind of. I am a self-acknowledged hardo in this respect but idk why that's a bad thing? There are thousands of career paths out there for people who are NOT hardos. IB used to be the one realm where the most competitive people from the most competitive schools could coalesce and push each other as hard as possible.
I think there is truth to the notion that it historically and still is shittier than it has to be in some regards. I think there is also truth to the notion that some of the kids complaining about IB lifestyle just absolutely NEVER belonged in this type of environment to begin with and Gen Z tends to think absolutely everything should cater to their personal needs, but never that they must also cater to the needs of any job that they take.
My standing is great sorry about yourself associate boy
As an older member of this forum, my issue is the entitlement that exists today. I went to Wall St and paid my dues, while knowing I’d get bent over, and I learned a lot.
I now see younger employees who don’t know shit and have never generated revenue demanding raises and benefits that I never received, and now in a position to make those decisions it pisses me off.
I’m sure I’ll get a ton of shit for this, but the biggest issue I’ve seen in the past 5 or so years is that some underperforming employee (often times on a performance improvement plan) thinks they should be a VP with a 2x better salary. I’m sorry fucker, but that’s not the way the world works.
This.
I don't mind people advocating for better conditions. I do mind people, who are not cut out for IB at all, coming into the office with 0 months of experience and expecting years of tradition, workplace cultural evolution, conventions and processes to give way to their specific needs.
My problem with Gen Z is they think that everything, anywhere should cater to them. It doesn't. You work for a public company, the entire company has to cater to shareholders. Just because YOU can't handle it, doesn't make it wrong. It makes you not a good fit. Find something you can handle before you expect a world that you don't belong in to cater to your excessive needs.
I saw the same exact shit in Basic military training and it pissed me off equally.
guessing you're a millenial in your 30s??
most gen Z kids are worse off than us by alot and are drowning in debt. that is where the entitlement comes from
No, I’m Gen X and graduated into the tech bust. I started as a temp in back office and built from there. I was paid hourly and decided to work so many hours that they’d have to hire me, which they did. I don’t see that drive today. I spent the last 10 years as the CEO of a company I founded and had a lot of issues with the work ethic and entitlement that I saw.
You lucked out.
Plenty of us spent our ANL & ASO years having useless lazy fucks for VPs and underperforming MDs who can't bring deals in so no learning experience, no good comp, but plenty of 100 hour weeks doing useless pitch books that clients won't even save to use as toilet paper.
At BBs, not some 3rd tier bank.
Sure, you could sneer and say we weren't good enough to get onto the top sector teams or whatever, but during your time, the economy was booming... deals happened everywhere, period.
Graduated during the "tech bust"? Such a bust for the economy that less than a decade later, the worst recession of our time happened
All analyst classes enter the workforce with unique attitudes and drives. I think there are two major macro factors that affect the attitudes of the older generation regarding this current generation of analysts.
The first is alternative job options with comparable pay. Starting in the 2010s, a new graduate could make comparable compensation in the tech industry compared to the finance/consulting industries. During the pandemic, we saw that there were individuals who were able to ride the momentum and trends of cryptocurrency to financial security. Prior to the 2010s, there were no industry alternatives coming out of undergrad that could pay as much as finance.
The second is the economic performance over the last few years. We experienced a bull market in the previous decade, and it feeds into the culture and drives the new generation with a mentality of pure growth at all costs. In previous years, there had always been a recession of sorts (Global Financial Crisis, Dot-Com Bust, Black Monday), and new graduates were inclined to be grateful for any opportunity they could grasp.
Obviously, there is an infinite number of reasons why different generations don't act the same way, but I thought I'd highlight two factors that haven't been mentioned in earlier posts.
A few others have said this already but the issue for me is that if you cannot handle a job then figure out a job that works for you. Very few people are so brilliant that they cannot be replace. If hours or demands of a job are too much for you, then it is up to you to figure out a job that works for you and / or don't act offended when someone with a better attitude gets promoted ahead of you. We had two analyst in corp dev. one of them refuse to take evening call or weekend work (mind you this is corp dev so minimal times this happens). The other analyst did not and was promoted to manager and the other analyst made a big fuss about it. Again everyone should do what is best for them but don't expect everyone else to cater to your needs or that people are not going to reward people with more drive.
Reminds of Simon Biles and how everyone thinks she is a hero because she quit to focus on herself . Again, do whatever works for you and makes you happy but don't expect to be glorify because you couldn't handle the work because someone else can.
I'm a college professor. If you think the recent interns and full-time starts are entitled and pampered, expecting exceptions to be made for them despite their not being exceptional, just wait. The current freshmen, sophomores, and juniors finished high school/started college on Zoom. Their teachers and professors were so sick of dealing with the COVID bullshit that they let stuff slide that they normally wouldn't let slide. Students at my university were allowed to opt in to pass/fail grading AFTER they knew what letter grade they would get for the class. You got a C-? Switch to pass/fail and your GPA is unaffected. Forget to do an assignment? Email the professor and tell them you had COVID. One student even emailed me asking if I could record all of my lectures because she still didn't feel safe going to in-person classes because of COVID. I'm hopeful that this is a COVID effect and this is not a trend. Realistically, I think it is the latter.
This post from the college professor is great insight and it is exactly what I feared after having worked with the recent COVID interns. As an example, one of the new analysts at my bank heard that a certain MD has a reputation for giving excessive comments to pitch books. That analyst then said "I will not do any work with that MD" before ever having worked with the MD and before being staffed on anything. The analyst wanted an exception to be made specifically for them.
Is it reasonable to think of the analyst as entitled?
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no this is actually true (sadly), the simple fact is that the vast majority (not all) of us did not face the same hardships and trials growing up and in our early lives as the generations before us did....
hardships such as, legitimate bullying as a child, having parents and grandparents that fought in major wars and brought that mentality home with them (try complaining to those guys about your hours, you're getting paid more than most of them did in their entire lives at age 25), there was definitely no such thing as "PC" so a lot of you would be getting your feelings hurt a lot tbh..., and the list goes on...
the simple fact of the matter is that we are all merely the sum of our experiences, so having faced less hardship... we are softer
Thx for the perspective. Plz turn comments and send revised draft overnight.
thx much
I mean I'm in the young generation, and feel like outworking my peers is easy. I'm sure previous generations were also soft, but people complaining that their mental health is suffering because they have to work a couple weekends is just ridiculous.
Don't want you guys to stop bitching about it though-- I'm all for making the competition as easy as possible.
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