[x] - In a group at a top BB
I'm in a good group at a top BB (MS/GS/JPM), and I decided early on that I hate IBD (so PE is definitely not the way to go for me). It wasn't just the hours, stress, and overall terrible lack of control over my life - it was also that I felt I wasn't learning about how to analyze companies/businesses/investment ideas in depth. I'm really just a number cruncher who gets the assumptions from others (usually management teams or consultants).
I've received an offer from a top corp dev job (e.g. Disney, Amex, GE) and I am planning on quitting the game to live a better life.
I heard it's still a lot of hours for corp dev, and way less pay than what I could be making in IBD/PE/HF, but I think I'll be happier and more interested in the work. Basically, I'll be starting over as an analyst with similar rank/pay as recent grads. What are your thoughts on this? The only alternative for me would have been to stick it out for another year and try to jump to a HF. I think getting references from my office for an immediate start HF would have been impossible, so I don't think it was really an option for me.
Part of me feels like I'm throwing away a year of work experience by accepting a job that's equivalent to those graduating college now though. On the other hand, the year has been wasted already in my eyes, so it's a sunk cost. How should I be thinking about this?
Do what makes you happy.
I don't know that you'd get much in-depth business/investment analysis experience at a F500, especially at an entry-level position. I work at a F500 and it's pretty slow and boring. If you can tolerate the hours, I'd suggest staying on for another year and apply to MBA programs. That way you won't have to start from scratch. Moving up in a F500 is a black box at most places.
take the leap. its never too late. When passion is at work, money will surely come, it's only a matter of time
Interesting. I have been considering doing a similar transition and would love to hear what you decide / your experience on the corporate side.
I am not a BB, but at a boutique/mid market bank and have been considering leaving banking for the better lifestyle of a similar type of position as the one you described.
My reasons are that I am considering grad school and want to get into a more brand name company to boost the overall quality of my application, and feel that trying to get into one of these positions may be more reasonable than lateraling into a BB for me. My second reason is driven by interest. I have become interested in a few industries I have had deal exposure to and would focus my job search on a role with leaders in those industries.
My advice is that if you like the industry that your corp dev job is in and would like to learn all about it, and if you want at least a slightly better lifestyle, then think about this position. That being said, you are at a BB and the MBA route should be more open, but one year may not be enough to go after the MBA programs yet.
Like above, do what will make you happy.
Kinda off topic but...
goldman in da house - other than the hours/stress/unpredictability you mentioned, what is it about IBD you hate the most? Do you like your group, analysts (ever hang out together?), company culture? Are you in a product group? Maybe a certain coverage group might've been better suited for you. Did you just avoid PE recruiting altogether because you pretty much didn't want Banking 2.0?
Think long and hard whether you are really interested in corp dev, the industry and the firm
That said, if it's Disney... the world on the street is their corp dev program is more selective, and provides no worse exits, than most BBs.
What is it that you find most unbearable with your current gig? Is it the fact that you do not feel like you have any real impact or decision making capability? Is it that you don't click with your team? What is it that is making you dissatisfied?
The only reason I ask, is because - Do you actually know whether changing roles will address your dissatisfaction or are you looking to make the jump in the hopes that somehow this new job will solve all your problems? Do you actually want the corp dev job? Or is this just the first opportunity to jump ship you have come across? The worst thing you could do, is to make an emotional decision that really isn't really consistent with your aspirations etc.
It just seems to me like you aren't truly passionate about this next role either. Otherwise you wouldn't be weighing up other options (HF) or even asking an anonymous forum.
Thank you to everyone who offered your thoughts - I really appreciate the advice and perspective.
To answer questions about what I dislike about my current job...
I do hate the culture of banking (analysis for analysis' sake, over importance on trivial things, and, in my office particularly, some lame ass / neurotic / egotistical coworkers). But the part I hate most is that I'm killing myself and for what? To learn how to crunch these DCF numbers better? Why go through all of banking when it's not really teaching me that much about what I'm passionate about?
I think the biggest mistake for me was doing banking instead of consulting out of college. This is an opportunity to join a real strategy group and contribute to analysis of whether certain projects make business sense and will generate a worthwhile return. And I'd get this without having to be constantly sleep deprived. I think I've made up my mind, but wanted to get WSO's reaction to think about.
the thing is, you will also do analysis for analysis' sake. one phrase that's been tossed around frequently is analysis paralysis. regardless of where you go if youre doing grunt-level work you'll have that syndrome.
youre not throwing a year away by the way. no one important will care about it.
If you know it's what you want, there's really no question. Why waste more time in a position that you don't see a future in?
Also, you should definitely quit so that open spot can be filled by one of the many BB IBD hungry monkeys on here.
This
Screw what everyone else thinks. Find your happiness and stop trying to impress others
Fully understand all your concerns. Look at it this way though - do army rangers quit halfway through assessment and selection because they can't "see the big picture" and "get their marching orders from somwhere else"? No. Because they know they are building a rock solid foundation of skills that will enable them make good calls down the road. Re: your consulting point. Junior consultants are also just powerpoint/excel jockeys. They are not chatting with the CEO about company strategy. If corp dev is something you want to do, then taking the jump early to the right place could be a good plan. But don't leave for corp dev just because you think on the margin you will be more of a thinking man. I can't emphasize enough how valuable finishing out the IB analyst tenure will be - it is an immediate stamp of approval. It's the business world equivalent of a ranger tab (although obviously not nearly as badass). My two cents. Re: corp dev I agree also with previous commenter about F500 advancement being much more blackboxy. Therefore a solid finished analyst stint and/or even a top MBA can go a long way to making the ladder a bit more solid. But if it's what you really want to do...well did Kobe wait to go pro? I just caution against doing something else JUST because you are racking your sleep deprived brain for a way out. You have made it this far. Make sure you leverage your work into what you really want to do.
so i take it u didn't get any models, that must suck with all those hours and PRESTIGE
you're not throwing away the year. 1 year as an analyst at a top tier investment bank isn't as good as 2, but it'll still be an asset to you forever in terms of your resume... "john do began his career as an analyst in the investment banking division at Goldman Sachs" doesn't really get old.
Unless Goldman Sachs becomes like Saloman Brothers and loses the prestige. From the your orinigal post, OP, you don't sound too set on corp dev or for anything else on that matter. (pe/hf/vc/entrepreneur)
What others have said, if you're certain you love it, switch. If its only marginally better..meh, might want to stick around for a year.
Depends what your end goal is. I could see how corp dev could be a hierchal mess when trying to make moves. I wouldn't do corp dev myself unless I was coming in at a high level, or was awesome at playing the political game
?? I'm still inclined to think that anyone who worked on the Salomon Bros trading floors in the 80s is still pretty badass, regardless of what has happened to the company since.
Unless (which I hope), you are being facetious.
lol y is this even a question - i am jealous of u cuz u can defy social norms and do something u liek rather than stay in a job u h8. unless ur goal in lyfe is 2 become a staffer, do da hokey pokey and go to corp dev, laughin ur ass all the whey to the excellent work/life balance and ppl u actually liek.
If it's Disney, just go man. Imagine how much credibility those guys have in the company after they spearheaded the Marvel acquisition. Do you want to spread comps all day or buy Iron Man is the real question here.
i was being serious..but i kinda retract my statement after actually thinking about it. smh
Best advice I ever got: Your 20's are for figuring out what you want to do Your 30's are for getting really good at it Your 40's and 50's are for getting paid for being really good it. Your still young, you'll be fine, good luck
lol @ comparing military to banking
Btw how do you know you should've done consulting? I know several who went from consulting to banking and they def liked banking more, all else equal
I was gunna say... Pretty sure the reason they don't "go get new orders from someone else" is because they get lumped in with snowden and get thrown in the brig....
Go to the buy side. There are plenty of firms willing to take on someone with IBD experience at a BB. The reason why people say you can't is because they are talking about the reputable, "prestigious" buy-side firms. But most of the money out there is actually managed by a variety of smaller firms.
Are you in your 40's/50's? How do you know it's going to happen to you?
"Its never to late to be what you might have been." -George Elliot Do what you love. Not like. Not maybe. Love. There is no point in worrying about money and exit opps, if you love it. No shame in crossing something off the list either. You know what you want; you're just looking for us to confirm.
I always do what I think is right. If I don't, I'd be unhappy and constantly second guessing myself. I believe, no one, beside yourself can truly answer this for you.
You are suffering from the grass is always greener on the other side effect which, I'm sure you know or you've gathered by reading other posts on this website if you haven't done so already. So what I say to you is jump fine do corp strat but realize that leaving banking you are allowing yourself to get to the point of whatif... whatif I had stayed another year where would I be. If you are ok with that question potentially lingering in your mind then cool leave for corp strat. But I can tell you if you don't like analysis for analysis purpose in banking you'll hate it in corpstrat because its less Type-A driving people and more random analysis for analysis sake and much less structure..but to each their own. Good luck with whatever you try to do.
You're a fucking analyst; you're not "starting over."
You need to think hard about what you don't like. Do they have the same things in Cor Dev? If so you may want to look at a different route all together.
r u an associate by eny chance?
Take my opinion at face value, but I think that this is a mistake in the making. Do you have much clarity on the quality of the work that entry-level CorpDev positions entail? I have several friends in F500 CorpDev, Strategy and LD programs, and very few of them report getting interesting, fulfilling work. In fact, many of them hate their jobs and are looking to move into a more "active" role in consulting or transitioning through an MBA. I'm curious as to what work you think you will be doing in CorpDev that you're not doing in IB. Your hours will be much better, but from the sound of your post, it doesn't seem like that's the reason you're transitioning.
Doesn't anyone else find it ironic that the OP reports "I think the biggest mistake for me was doing banking instead of consulting out of college," yet he's looking to jump to CorpDev? Why not shoot for a role in consulting if that's what you wish you would have joined? There is plenty of precedent for IB analysts lateraling over to MBB roles. Your work is going to be far more interesting and transferable working at MBB than it will be in a F500 CorpDev role. You'll still be an Excel / PPT monkey (but, seriously, that's what you're going to be in CorpDev as well), but you'll probably be much happier. Don't kid yourself about the hours though - my roommate works at MBB and works just as much as I do in IB, with a bit less frequent weekend work.
I'd think it would be possible to negotiate a 2nd year analyst salary in their program considering you have 1 year of real good experience.
Thanks for the long, thoughtful post. Actually, the role I'm going to be going into is much more of a consulting role than a banking role (the company has a team that does mostly M&A, a team that does mostly debt/equity, and internal consulting groups such as the one that I am joining which look at new projects). I think of this as doing internal consulting work without travel. I don't want to give away my anonymity, but I can say that I have spoken extensively with the people there so I do have a good idea of what the work entails.
Here's the difference between finance and the corporate job I'm interested in taking: - Today, I spent the entire day trying to make numbers tie in my model. We have several scenarios running for a company with several business segments. The PE firm we are working with gives us numbers that are scattered around and that do not tie, so we end up making complicated formulas to calculate things that are quite simple in concept. Revenue, gross profit, EBITDA, D&A, capex, change in NWC: a monkey with no idea what any of these really entail can do my job. At the end of the day, what do all these numbers mean? Not much, they're used to determine what kind of leverage terms we can put on this NewCo structure. What difference does it mean to me if the 1st Lien is L+425 instead of L+400? All this work so that we can get clarity around 5.5x leverage vs 5.0x leverage? I really don't care. The overarching goal is to help this PE fund cash out their investment by selling it to another PE fund. How does this create value in society? Who knows.
Sure, I would have taken MBB, but there is low turnover at these places. I spoke to my contacts at these places and there weren't many openings over the past few months (lateral hires asked to join in summer of 2014 when spots are available, and I'm not willing to do another year of banking to go into consulting), whereas the offer I got (which I think is very comparable to MBB except for the lifestyle) was very fortuitous in terms of timing.
I hate processes (executing processes such as data rooms, diligence trackers, contact logs, working group lists, etc... 20% of my job), processing meaningless numbers to be the "correct answer" (about 70% of my job right there), time pressure, clients, bureaucracy, brainless/insecure coworkers, memorization/rote work.
Corp Dev still has some of those, but I think to a much lesser extent.
Someone's gotta say it: this post reeks of idealism, and to be honest, it worries me that you describe the new role as a "top" corp dev role - isn't prestige hunting what got you into your current predicament?
Believe me, I have friends in corporate strategy that, at a minimum, 1) make more money, 2) have more responsibility, and 3) have more influence than entry-level strategy roles at any of the firms you listed (I mention this not for its pretentious value, but only to make the following more meaningful). And believe me, their work is nowhere near as sexy as you are describing. However, I would describe them all as content - or at least their disgruntledness is far less enthusiastic than my IB friends (likely due to the hours).
That said, frustrations abound. Large companies are notoriously hierarchical and new projects tend to be implemented at a snail's pace. Promotion schedules are significantly slower and more rigid than in FO finance roles and mobility is limited. Consequently, my friends unanimously feel underappreciated and find a great deal of their work to be rote.
You complain about IB not "driving societal value". I'm not sure exactly by which - presumably - subjective standard of "societal value" you are evaluating these jobs, but by any quantifiable indicator and almost by definition, the IB analyst is performing more highly valued tasks. Perhaps that value is more indirect and doesn't inspire tearful group high-fives, but if that extra turn of leverage increases the risk-adjusted returns of the PE investment you were describing, you have ipso facto created societal value.
What you say rings true to any IB analyst: the work is chore-ish, taxing and generally unfulfilling. But that is not a critique of IB, that's a critique of entry-level jobs.
Your complaints seem to stem generally from the feeling that what you're doing isn't cosmically "important". You ascribe this lack of importance - erroneously, I think - to the job itself ("IB is monkey work"!). However, you're missing the big picture: you're the monkey, and monkeys do monkey work. The issue here is: you are not important. I am not important. The smartest IB / CorpDev analyst in the world is not important. And that fact isn't going to change because you make a change in scenery. Once you realize that entry-level work is rarely meaningful because - quite understandably - no one trusts you, you'll be able to put things into perspective and realize that you are 23 years old (so am I!). You're not going to be changing the world (or even a company) in entry-level jobs. Simple as that.
Again, take my opinion at face value. I wish you the best of luck in your new role, but I suggest you approach it with a healthy bit of perspective. There are two kinds of people in this world: 1) happy people and 2) unhappy people. With few exceptions, unhappy people do not become happy people by changing jobs. Make the most of your switch, and enjoy your new-found freedom!
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