Is it Okay to Have Facial Hair on Wall Street?

IBorBust's picture
Rank: Senior Chimp | 23

So - after reading all these discussions on style/dress code...i figured i would throw this out there...for men, if facial hair frowned upon in the IB world? I have been wearing a goatee for years...do i need to shave to be taken seriously? Is it really that shallow?

Is Having Facial Hair Acceptable In Investment Banking?

While there is no specific rule in dress codes regarding facial hair, there are some "secret" dress codes that investment bankers follow.

Take Goldman Sachs for example, their dress code is to just "fit in" with the rest of the firm, even if it means wearing suits while taking a smoke break. As for beards, typically bankers have their beards shaved and only a select few senior staff have beards.

As a junior member of the team, you should assume that you should be clean shaven. If you are curious about what the informal code of conduct is, ask another junior team member that has been at the firm longer than you have been.

If you have any other comments or experience in having a beard in investment banking please comment below!

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Read More About the Topic of Facial Hair on WSO

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Comments (199)

Jan 22, 2007

Absolutely without a doubt, at least in my group.

Here are some selections from Wikipedia:

"In the course of history, men with facial hair have been ascribed various attributes such as wisdom, sexual virility, or high status, but also a lack of cleanliness and refinement, or an eccentric disposition."

"Full beards nonetheless remain a fringe phenomenon."

"... no President has worn a full beard since Benjamin Harrison, and no President has worn any facial hair at all since William H. Taft."

"... there is a close and consistent association of long standing in American film between facial hair and role aEU"- if one lead male character has more facial hair than another, he is far more likely to be the antagonist, and the man with less (or no) facial hair the protagonist."

"Even today there is some degree of prejudice against beards and against men who wear beards, although it is much less serious than it once was."

The fact is that wearing a beard is not 100% the most conservative option... so to wear one is to publicly refuse to conform to the blandest possible personal appearance. This is dangerous. This is also why the only people around here who wear beards are Sikhs. They, of course, get a buy due to their faith. (I have not seen any Jews or Muslims wearing beards in IB, but I'm sure they would receive a similar buy.)

Jun 8, 2016

bye not buy lol

Jan 22, 2007

I have a sexy french beard which the ladies love, I thought it would be fine if I kept it, looks like I may have to fight for it.

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Jun 8, 2016

I haven't seen any bankers with beards. You want to make yourself as presentable to clients as possible - especially as an associate. Even if it's tasteful, I still wouldn't keep any facial hair.

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Jun 8, 2016

Shave

Jun 8, 2016

Facial hair is gross. Even after I left the military I still keep myself clean shaven. Just my 2 wampum. :)

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Jun 8, 2016

Joe Perella has a full beard.

Jun 8, 2016

Perella isnt an excel monkey. He can do w/e he wants.

Jun 8, 2016

Whoa, trying to look like Kimbo himself there huh? I'd say beards look cool and make you stand out.

Jun 8, 2016
Charming Chimp:

Whoa, trying to look like Kimbo himself there huh? I'd say beards look cool and make you stand out.

Because if you want to stand out in the office, make sure it's due to your facial hair.

Jun 8, 2016

it 100% depends on your position, whether it's i-banking or anything else in the business world. so i guess in short, no--facial hair probably would not be acceptable for either an analyst or an associate. if you're higher up, it's a different story. i mean, look at steve jobs. he's rockin' the full beard, crying about how unprofessional he looks in his turtlenecks and 1982 jeans all the way to the bank.

Jun 8, 2016
Kimbo Slice:

Can you get away with sporting a beard as an associate?

It's a big negative for some people

Jan 22, 2007

I'm a sikh and I wear a beard, though I do trim it a little, and manage it to look proper. If I get frowned upon for putting up a beard, then it shows non-equal opportunity employment which I will blatantly refuse.

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Jan 22, 2007
unztopable:

I'm a sikh and I wear a beard, though I do trim it a little, and manage it to look proper. If I get frowned upon for putting up a beard, then it shows non-equal opportunity employment which I will blatantly refuse.

To play devil's advocate here:
Really, isn't it reverse discrimination in a way to not allow some white guy to have a goatee? I understand it is for different reasons(religious vs. personal preference), but is it really fair to disqualify a white guy from a job if he has facial hair?

Jun 8, 2016

MD level.

Jun 8, 2016

Hehe, that's a good 20 years then, never mind, it'll be well worth the wait

Jan 22, 2007
fraser24gt:
unztopable:

I'm a sikh and I wear a beard, though I do trim it a little, and manage it to look proper. If I get frowned upon for putting up a beard, then it shows non-equal opportunity employment which I will blatantly refuse.

To play devil's advocate here:
Really, isn't it reverse discrimination in a way to not allow some white guy to have a goatee? I understand it is for different reasons(religious vs. personal preference), but is it really fair to disqualify a white guy from a job if he has facial hair?

I don't really have a problem against anybody having facial hair. In fact, I think facial hair is pretty cool. However, it's not about personal preference anymore when you come into iBanking. You get paid a ton to be their corporate slave, and it's all about the requirements of professionalism they would like their company to project facing their clients. When it comes to religion, it is proper etiquette, even in the business world, to be respectful of everyones faith and that's why it has nothing to do with reverse discrimination.

Jun 8, 2016

Agreed, but I still wish we lived in the good old days when a banker without a beard (and potentially a wonderfully huge mustache!) would have been out of place. I hate shaving, and I doubly hate shaving and buttoning up my collar and wearing a tie right afterwards. Hence the move to S&T where I can live without a tie and avoid the neck-burn (ok, so that wasn't the real reason, but it is a positive factor in the move).

"It is a fine thing to be out on the hills alone. A man can hardly be a beast or a fool alone on a great mountain." - Francis Kilvert (1840-1879)

"Ce serait bien plus beau si je pouvais le dire a quelqu'un." - Samivel

"It is a fine thing to be out on the hills alone. A man can hardly be a beast or a fool alone on a great mountain." - Francis Kilvert (1840-1879)

"Ce serait bien plus beau si je pouvais le dire a quelqu'un." - Samivel

Jun 8, 2016

by then, you would have already made a name for yourself and a track record of success. So wouldnt matter if you ugly with a beard, as long as you can execute, its all the clients care about. You can walk into a meeting with a robe (Evan Almighty) and still win a deal! ;)

Jun 8, 2016

By the way, is this rule of not having facial hair as valid for Sales and/or Trading as it is for IBD? And for London as well as NYC in all groups?

"It is a fine thing to be out on the hills alone. A man can hardly be a beast or a fool alone on a great mountain." - Francis Kilvert (1840-1879)

"Ce serait bien plus beau si je pouvais le dire a quelqu'un." - Samivel

"It is a fine thing to be out on the hills alone. A man can hardly be a beast or a fool alone on a great mountain." - Francis Kilvert (1840-1879)

"Ce serait bien plus beau si je pouvais le dire a quelqu'un." - Samivel

Jun 8, 2016
fandango:

By the way, is this rule of not having facial hair as valid for Sales and/or Trading as it is for IBD? And for London as well as NYC in all groups?

"It is a fine thing to be out on the hills alone. A man can hardly be a beast or a fool alone on a great mountain." - Francis Kilvert (1840-1879)

"Ce serait bien plus beau si je pouvais le dire a quelqu'un." - Samivel

Probably more important in Sales, as you meet clients all day. Not so much for trading as you bummed on your chair all the time. You can probably get away with having facial hair as a trader...

Jun 8, 2016

story on the trading floor. some analyst used to come in with a clean goatee. md came up to him and said "if i ever see you with that f**king facial hair every again i will go insane". needless to say he has been clean shaven ever since

Jun 8, 2016

Eh, I shave probably 3 times a week. I like a little weekend stubble. People in my group don't give a shit unless you need to face a client / prospect.

Jan 22, 2007

Yes... Sikhs have that ability due to their faith, but some guy who wants to wear a goatee because he thinks it looks cool will be frowned upon, at least in my group. All the Sikhs in this building wear the dastaar as well, which (FYI for non-sikhs) is a mandatory article of faith and underlines the fact that they wear beards for religious purposes.

Unztopable, if you don't want to trim, you shouldn't have to... I know that many devout Sikhs don't agree with that practice either.

Jun 8, 2016

dont think itd fly unless you are an MD

Jun 8, 2016

Beards rule!

Jun 8, 2016

It's like in the army, if you rank is too low I'd avoid sporting one.

Remember, you will always be a salesman, no matter how fancy your title is.
- My ex girlfriend

Jan 22, 2007

it is acceptable if you're in ib in saudi arabia, perhaps.

Jun 8, 2016

If you are female - the manly mustache is the way to go. (a little holiday humor)

My vote is for baby smooth.

Jun 8, 2016

lol baby smooth fo sho

Jun 8, 2016

Keep it clean and smooth. Joe Perella is one of the few who can get away with a beard.

Jun 8, 2016
whateverittakes:

Keep it clean and smooth. Joe Perella is one of the few who can get away with a beard.

That's only cuz he can do whatever the fuck he wants now. Joe Perella back in the day:

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=joe+perel...
Smooth is definitely the way to go...although shaving everyday destroys my baby-sensitive skin. The real question is: blade or electric? How the hell do you get a close shave with electric?!

Jun 8, 2016

Does anyone have any thoughts on a perpetual five o'clock shadow?

Jun 8, 2016
TheKing:

Does anyone have any thoughts on a perpetual five o'clock shadow?

you look perpetually unkept

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Jun 8, 2016
Fingertips:

So, a well-kept beard? Baby-smooth? A manly mustache?

How do you keep your facial hair, how is facial hair looked upon in finance?

A clean shave every morning, and a full beard by the time I leave at 2 am. Gotta love banking.

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Jun 8, 2016

+SB, made me laugh

Jun 8, 2016

I try my best for smooth but like Quimby sometimes its a biatch and getting to the floor at 5:30am sometimes you just let it go for a day. But like American Psycho smooth is the way to go.

Jun 8, 2016

Google Don Frye. That's the kind of 'tache I have. The ladies love it.

Jun 8, 2016

Dreads and Patchouli oil...they can't do anything to you once you landed the job.

Jun 8, 2016

No need to be a scruffy turd. Keep your face clean and shaven.

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Jun 8, 2016
Geraint Anderson:

scruffy turd

What a nauseating image

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Jun 8, 2016

I'm black, so I have to shave, or else things can become entangled in my facial hair.

Jun 8, 2016

No facial hair on wall street

"If Henry Ford had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." -Steve Jobs

Jun 8, 2016

I rock a Goatee. My general rule is I shave 1-2 to keep my face pretty clean. Then again, I have an amazing shaving kit which helps, and yes, how you shave is just as important as shaving. A good shave with the right shaving products keeps the hair from growing back a little longer. I trim my Goatee once a week.

If and when I have kids, I'll probably move onto sporting a beard. There is nothing wrong with having facial hair. What matters is how you neat you keep it.

Jun 8, 2016
Tasteful Thickness:

So, a well-kept beard? Baby-smooth? A manly mustache?

How do you keep your facial hair, how is facial hair looked upon in finance?

I have done clean shaven, goatee, and beard at one point or another. Although, while I was at a big firm, it was always clean shaven. One time I shaved my beard so that only a '70's style mustache remained, Unfortunately, that didn't last more than an hour because my wife basically threw up in her mouth when she saw it.

Jun 8, 2016

Perpetual scruff.

Jun 8, 2016

The perpetual 5' o clock look is awesome.

Jun 8, 2016

If you are in the finance business, a well kept beard is not out of question only if you have been working for quite long and now your links matter a lot more than your physical appearance. Otherwise you should truly stick to the baby smooth thing or go with some trendy but elegant moustache style. Hope it helps...

In Time I wander

Jun 8, 2016

Mad scruff right now.

Jun 8, 2016

I shave once a week on Sunday night and by that time i have a full beard. By Wednesday I would say I am not appropriate for a normal job in finance but people tolerate it where i work because i have made them money. In the hedge fund world one can pull off the "mad genius" look...i'd stay away from it in investment banking or in any of the other more corporate parts of the financial world.

Jun 8, 2016

Well, I use a double edge safety razor, it gives a very close shave, good for sensitive skin, and using a nice badger hair shaving brush (Edwin Jagger, Vulfix, Kent), with some good quality shaving creams (Truefitt & Hill, Taylor of Old Bond Street, Geo. F Trumpers) it's not a problem to achieve a nice baby smooth face. The creams might be expensive but they last long, about 4~6 months.

Jun 8, 2016
amx1992:

Well, I use a double edge safety razor, it gives a very close shave, good for sensitive skin, and using a nice badger hair shaving brush (Edwin Jagger, Vulfix, Kent), with some good quality shaving creams (Truefitt & Hill, Taylor of Old Bond Street, Geo. F Trumpers) it's not a problem to achieve a nice baby smooth face. The creams might be expensive but they last long, about 4~6 months.

Glad I'm not the only one using safety razors and quality shaving equipment. Yeah, the initial investment might be a little high, but you save that within a couple of months of buying cheap blades instead of cartridges.

100 double sided Shark blades for $10 or 8 regular cartridges for $20? No brainer...

Jun 8, 2016
amx1992:

Well, I use a double edge safety razor, it gives a very close shave, good for sensitive skin, and using a nice badger hair shaving brush (Edwin Jagger, Vulfix, Kent), with some good quality shaving creams (Truefitt & Hill, Taylor of Old Bond Street, Geo. F Trumpers) it's not a problem to achieve a nice baby smooth face. The creams might be expensive but they last long, about 4~6 months.

This has a very American Psycho-esque feel to it.

Jun 8, 2016

Depends on the job. My impression is that no one gives a crap if you're trader. It's all about your PnL.

Jun 8, 2016

Frank Quattrone moustache.

Jun 8, 2016

If I was working in the US/Europe, thin mustache.

In the Arabian Gulf: http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01432/...

Greed is Good.

Jan 22, 2007

But this guy's asking about his goatee, which (at least to me) seemed like a personal choice and not a religious necessity.

Jan 22, 2007
Mis Ind:

But this guy's asking about his goatee, which (at least to me) seemed like a personal choice and not a religious necessity.

same as in saudi arabia. you can go clean shaven there as well. i know a director who has grown a goatee since moving to the middle east. he covers saudi as well.

Jun 8, 2016

I don't think it's a problem if it's well groomed, though you never know what others think. Sometimes it's better to be safe going into interview situations.

Jun 8, 2016

I would shave it for interviews, just to be safe (it doesn't sound like a big deal but there are some weird people out there). Once you get the job, grow it back and keep it nicely groomed.

Jun 8, 2016
Flake:

I would shave it for interviews, just to be safe (it doesn't sound like a big deal but there are some weird people out there). Once you get the job, grow it back and keep it nicely groomed.

This is the optimal strategy - being conservative never hurts in interviews. A lot of people judge 'fit' by look.

Jun 8, 2016

No one around me has facial hair.....i'd go without it.

its one way or the other: hate me or admire.

Jun 8, 2016

Definitely shave for interviews - had an issue when I had a full beard. Nothing too major but I would have liked to avoid it. That said, I fucking hate shaving. Such a chore.

Jun 8, 2016

If you are coming out of a PhD program or are interviewing for a position that generally requires an graduate level knowledge of mathematics or economics, ok. For 90% of finance folks on the street though, no.

Jun 8, 2016

Shave your head like a bhuddist monk

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Jun 8, 2016

You absolutely should shave it, especially for interviews. Sideburns are fine.

Jun 8, 2016

also, i'd shave my balls just in case.

Jun 8, 2016

Sideburns are fine?

Jun 8, 2016

Paul McCulley grew some AFTER he left PIMCO

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/73591226/

Jun 8, 2016

Are you fucking retarded?

Nebular:

I love my beard (well groomed and low), and I think I look too childish if I don't sport atleast sideburns. I know it is looked down to have facial hair in the industry, but if I keep it clean will the positive outweigh the negative if I do indeed look too childish without it?

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!

Jun 8, 2016
WalMartShopper:

Are you fucking retarded?

Nebular:

I love my beard (well groomed and low), and I think I look too childish if I don't sport atleast sideburns. I know it is looked down to have facial hair in the industry, but if I keep it clean will the positive outweigh the negative if I do indeed look too childish without it?

Since 10 other people gave a coherent response besides you, I'm going to go with no.

Jun 8, 2016

True. I could grow it back in about a week and a half anyhow, however can I shave it and keep sideburns? Or just do away with it all? The beard is also a confidence factor for me T.T.

Jan 22, 2007

when I see goatee, I think "douchebag who wears white running shoes and has some stupid gold chain hidden under his dress shirt"

Jun 8, 2016

Clean shaven

Jun 8, 2016

Clean shaven pretty much everywhere, except perhaps in the middle east.

Jun 8, 2016

clean shaven

Jun 8, 2016

Clean shaven in the vast majority of all "professional" industries... finance included.

Jun 8, 2016

I've noticed that in IM a lot of senior guys (MD+) have beards.

Jan 22, 2007

Fraser, there's a girl here who can't work from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown due to the Jewish requirements. However, I (who have no such requirements) cannot simply say, "As a matter of personal choice, I choose not to work on Saturdays." See the difference? Now, I could try to BS it and pretend to be orthodox Jewish, but it would still smell of BS and nobody would buy it.

Jun 8, 2016

if you honestly believe it's frowned upon, why risk it? you have more to lose. play it safe.

Jun 8, 2016

My thoughts, lose it. You can grow into "billy-badass-facial-hair-guy", but don't come in that way. As mentioned above, way more to lose, what's the benefit?

Jun 8, 2016

Wait until you hit MD, then you grow a sweet beard.

Please don't quote Patrick Bateman.

Jun 8, 2016

If you don't have a fu manchu, I can't respect you

Jun 8, 2016

A ton.

Jun 8, 2016
BlackHat:

A ton.

My guess: you're talking about different kinds of analysts.

Jun 8, 2016

I have met banker / sell-side type people that are completely psycho about having even the tiniest strand of facial hair. I mean, if you have thick stubble and shave too much your face is going to get a little bloodied up, but that's just a risk you'll have to take if you are aiming to work for those kinds of folks.

Jun 8, 2016

Power stache or bust.

Jun 8, 2016

Question 1: Are you Tom Selleck?

Question 2: Are you Wyatt Earp?

Question 3: Are you JP Morgan?

The answer to these questions is also the answer to whether you should keep facial hair.

Jun 8, 2016

Nobody cares about your linkedin picture in terms of the bank you're working at as an analyst, but that is the first thing that many headhunters are going to see, and they may or may not care, so if you want to get contacted about exit ops, clean shaven is better than not. Clean shaven is like, the baseline so to speak. Visible facial hair makes you "different." Some people will care, some won't, in my mind it doesn't make sense to throw away that whole set of job offers that care just because you can't be bothered to spend 5 mins shaving for a LinkedIn pic, but to each their own.

Aside from the LinkedIn pic, you should really stay clean shaven if you work in banking. You're sell side, your whole career advancement in that industry is a function of your client relationships. You develop client relationships by convincing your boss to take you to meetings/dinners/events with clients. Nobody is going to put you in front of a client if you don't look professional, and for better or worse, facial hair looks less professional.

Also facial hair is a bit of a statement. Like... If you rock a big beard, you're kinda saying "I make enough rain that the rules don't apply to me." Guess what, if you're asking this question, you didn't earn a beard. It's like flashing gang signs in a bad neighborhood. If you didn't earn that shit, you're better off not claiming it.

.

Jun 8, 2016

I dont think you should make it a concern. No body really cares if there is a stubble. I think you should focus on the performance aspect of the job rather than worry about minute details in presentation.

In Time I wander

Jun 8, 2016

With questions like these, I've always taken the approach where if I know it might be a problem for some people, I opt for the safer choice. Why risk anything? If you know it has even the slightest chance of posing an issue for someone who may make a decision that affects you, why take that chance?

Jun 8, 2016

This keeps getting bumped. TL;DR: If your on the sell-side...shave until you hit MD. Buy-side there may be more latitude based on firm culture. /thread

Please don't quote Patrick Bateman.

Jun 8, 2016

Depends on the firm and culture. If you are targeting MM IB in Chicago/Minneapolis vs. BB IBD in NYC, it may not matter as much.

Jun 8, 2016

I'm on buy side real estate and I get shit on if I dont shave for one day.

Jun 8, 2016

What if your face gets wicked cut up by a razor? I've used the art of shaving and I still get razor burn. Lately I've been using a trimmer that cuts it down to pretty much a five o'clock shadow or less. You guys think that is okay, say for an interview or just everyday work?

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves. - Abraham Lincoln

Jun 8, 2016
SaltySpitoon:

What if your face gets wicked cut up by a razor? I've used the art of shaving and I still get razor burn. Lately I've been using a trimmer that cuts it down to pretty much a five o'clock shadow or less. You guys think that is okay, say for an interview or just everyday work?

Or just learn to shave properly

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Jan 22, 2007

Just for the record, goatees may be lame , but chicks love french beards, in fact since I grew my french beard the ladies say I look like Leo Di Caprio in The Departed...a far more manly version though.

Feb 15, 2007
Seanc:

Just for the record, goatees may be lame , but chicks love french beards, in fact since I grew my french beard the ladies say I look like Leo Di Caprio in The Departed...a far more manly version though.

No doubt, you're probably a filthy animal! How you like them apples?

Jun 8, 2016

I'm more a fan of Blankfein's.

Jun 8, 2016

Pay is down, can't afford to cut it

Jun 8, 2016
Bobb:

Pay is down, can't afford to cut it

That does not explain why Icahn growing a beard.

"He that hath a beard is more than a youth, and he that hath no beard is less than a man." -- William Shakespeare, Much Ado About Nothing

Jun 8, 2016

I think I saw an article a while back in Details Mag that touched on this. Since the recession started in '08, some men developed a new attitude - kind of like "no time for putting up a successful front. We're in a touch time phase look."

Jan 22, 2007

I don't love beards of any sort. Just my opinion.

Also, have never heard of a "french beard". As far as I've seen, Gallic males seem to prefer a small moustache with no beard. Is this what you're talking about?

Jun 8, 2016

the only area within finance I've seen it with any legitimate frequency is IT and academia.

Jun 8, 2016

Starting IB FT monday, was wondering the same thing haha

Jun 8, 2016

Shave your beard or you wont receive a full time offer, that's a a fact.

Jun 8, 2016

The janitors

Jun 8, 2016
maserati123:

The janitors

'Custodial services'

Jun 8, 2016

Wherever its acceptable to be a democrat

Jan 22, 2007

No it's a light moustache connected to a light goatee, I trim it regularly to make sure I don't end up looking like I converted to Islam.

I guess French Beard isn't the right term for it, someone told me that's what it's called.

Jun 8, 2016

Well groomed long hipster beards or for religious reasons?

Jun 8, 2016

Do NOT wear a fucking beard if you're seriously trying to start in Finance...Some older guys might do it, but they're already cemented in the field. You're young and trying to figure out how to fuck yourself by wearing a beard? Are you kidding me?

Jun 8, 2016

Ok for Movember.

Jun 8, 2016

Nothing wrong with well groomed facial hair. I know plenty of people who have beards and use a trimmer to keep it neat

Jan 22, 2007

Oh yeah, like a modern Van Dyck, the light half-centimeter length that you can see skin tone through. That's a very young and tuned-in look, though. You may not want to project such a youthful image. That would place you as being very much an outsider to Wall Street.

Jun 8, 2016

Same as every other company's - you'll be exposed as a try hard who is looking to finally gain some recognition by cashing in on the lastest social media trend.

Jan 22, 2007

dude, lose the goatee. wth are you thinking.

Jun 8, 2016

For some reason, a lot of the more senior guys are just against facial hair. It makes no sense to me either, but I'm interested to see what others have to say.

Jun 8, 2016

I personally feel that having a consistently groomed neat beard can be seen as just another facial feature, such as high cheek bones, nose structure, etc. The second you let it get sloppy is when it becomes looked upon as "unprofessional".

I personally go into all interviews with a cleanly shaven face. It's only after getting hired that I keep the neatly groomed beard.

(I'm of middle eastern decent and shaving everyday is ridiculous)

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Jun 8, 2016

Investment banking is a very conservative, buttoned-up industry. When you come into a bank with facial hair, you are telling the bank that your facial hair is more important to you than the job. Maybe that is an incorrect assumption on the part of the bank, but that is how it comes across. Just shave.

Jun 8, 2016

I have kept a mustache since I could grow one. The only times I shaved was for my SA IB stint and now my FT IB stint. I hate shaving everyday but the fact that the Directors, MDs and VPs were clean shaven convinced me to conform.

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Literally a problem, solve for both X and Y, please and thank you.
Hugh Myron: "Are there any guides on here for getting a top girlfriend? Think banker/lawyer/doctor. I really don't want to go mid-tier"

Jun 8, 2016

It's the culture of IB. Senior bankers feel that should do your best to look your best. I've heard of a group head paying for razors for people to go shave in the bathroom.

Jan 22, 2007

at the bank I used to work for (he is a devout muslim) was told to shave his goatee

Jan 22, 2007

It looks cheap and immature, just like sideburns.

I always think that its a boy trying to be a man, proving to people he can grow facial hair.

Jan 23, 2007

IB doesnt like facial hair. I had a goat earlier just before I started recruiting and I had bankers tell me that wall street doesnt wear facial hair. I know one person that has a goatie in the business but it is already hard enough to get a job besides adding something else that could ding you.

I would lose the facial hair if I was you.

Jan 23, 2007

Why all the hate for the goat ? Trust me, I don't need a goatee to make me look older, it's something I grew out on a whim and the chicks seem to like it.

With that being said, let's see what my employers have to say. I just sent them a pic of myself which was taken recently for the analyst facebook .

Jan 23, 2007

because I am muslim....

The day anyone tells me to shave my beard off is the day I walk out....(and sue)

Jan 23, 2007

Right, Muslims should be free to practice the religion. Ditto Sikhs and Jews. But not some kid who decides he likes his goatee. That's not a religion. And your co-workers will know the difference.

Jan 23, 2007

people should learn to respect the code of the industry. if facial hair is frowned upon, shave it off. why bring all the religious crap into it? i hate special treatment seeking maatherchods. muslims, sikhs, jews should decide whats more important: religion or job. everyone today wants to have their cake and eat it, too. and this coming from a brown guy who'll never see an executive position in north america. but that's the way the white cookie has crumbled. if i live here, i should respect the customs.

i mean, how likely is a jew to get a job in pakistan?

i'm getting laser hair removal for my face. i recommend that to the brown folks. it won't remove the hair if you get only a couple of treatments. it'll thin it out so when you shave, you don't have that shadow.

Jan 23, 2007

I agree 100% with maatherchod.

Jan 23, 2007

....his 'maather' brought him up like a good little naryal.....

Dude - if you have so little respect for your culture or religious heritage that you will throw it away in an instant then I am afraid you are shallow....

A society that is just, true and fair should judge people on their merits. I am not going to give up my religious beliefs so that I can work in IBD - religion is not a 'game', it is not a passtime. You may not have any belief system (apart from teh one where you believe you must always conform to fit in and be accepted) but some of us believe in a bigger picture.

If I am a good banker then I have as much right to be here as you or any other hair lasering freak.

Soon they will be able to take the melanin out of your skin - bet you are saving your bonus for that.......

From the ghetto....

Jan 23, 2007

...facial hair is great if you are a major league relief pitcher...as a banker or anywhere else on wall st shave. If you are truly a devout muslim...well dosent sharia law forbid the charging of interest?

Jan 23, 2007

Bondarb, that's why we have our lovely Islamic finance people in Dubai who figure out how to "give" slices of a company (in return for investments in the company) that don't give voting rights and still pay fixed amounts of money at fixed times. It may look a lot like a bond, but it's totally different. The imams take care of everything, so you know it's okay with God.

Jan 24, 2007
Mis Ind:

Bondarb, that's why we have our lovely Islamic finance people in Dubai who figure out how to "give" slices of a company (in return for investments in the company) that don't give voting rights and still pay fixed amounts of money at fixed times. It may look a lot like a bond, but it's totally different. The imams take care of everything, so you know it's okay with God.

the islamic finance people in dubai didn't make up sukuk, ijara or any of those products.

Jan 23, 2007

...I guess Mohammed hadnt heard about structured products when he came up with that one.

    • 1
Jan 23, 2007

That was pretty funny bond

Jan 23, 2007

tier2sta...

you're an idiot. i am very shallow; but why are you afraid? such pedestrian use of the language. and why is it that whenever someone from the indian subcontinent criticizes his/her own culture/religion, he/she is automatically considered whitewashed? I love my culture, even though it is far from perfect.

"A society that is just, true, and fair...". Are you, like, 11? When you find that society, let me know. I'll apply for a Visa. I know you'll reject my application because even in a society that is just, true and fair, the best you'll do is become an immigration officer. but now you've rejected my applicaiton based on subjective criteria. is that really fair? So a society that is just, true and fair does not exist.

and what is so wrong about fitting in? there are times and situations you fit in and times and situations you stand out. if i have to have no facial hair to get a good job in North America, i'll do it. it won't change who i am. you're the shallow one. brrrappppp

Jan 24, 2007

I work over in London so maybe this is a different perspective but I really dont see the problem with facial hair but and this is a big BUT - it shud look smart, neat etc...

Saying that I've seen a bunch of big (read huge waisted) MDs who seem to pull in a decent lot of business so as long as you look you can work your clients, no big deal.

Bottom line - facial hair with a quality personality and you have my vote! Facial hair and a bit dull - well you're really not getting it, are u?

Jan 24, 2007

Maather - you did not counter my point in any way bar criticising my concept of a just society.

Admittedly there is no suct utopic ideal in existence, but if you are willing to disregard the ideal then not only are you a whitewashed and shallow individual, you are also lacking in any humanity.

Don't tell me my use of language is pedestrian when you end a post with a 'braaap' - are you sure your banker friends would approve of that?

In fact, reading your post all you do is talk about visas and immigration. How is society intrinsically linked to national border control?
In your mind the two go hand in hand clearly - did you have a personal experience that haunts you?

If I am an idiot because I think I should not have to compromise my personal beliefs then so be it. I do however hold down a job in the City, in IBD, and wear a beard.

You may carry on bleaching your face.... remember though - you are not of European descent and never will be. Why waste your life trying desperately to become something you are not?

From the ghetto....

Jan 24, 2007

in Amsterdam, we say that when a man has hair around his mouth, he has a talking pussy

Jan 24, 2007

You grew up in Amsterdam???? Damn!!! I dont care what kind of childhood you had.... I'd trade places with you any day!

Jan 24, 2007

okay, but where are you from? don't know about childhood, but apparently something went wrong because I'm going to work for an IB..

Jan 24, 2007

Lose the hair. It's unwritten. I'm a Muslim and shave (when I have to). Anyway, I see no issue with my faith as I've read the Qur'an and have yet to find the part that tells me to keep a beard.

As for maatherchuod... on the right track to an extent; but gandu, lose the gora-wannabe attitude. You're desi and mela like the rest of us! =D

Islamic finance is a great way to squeeze liquidity from those who believe in the articles of the Sharia, which was, of course derived from Islamic teachings a couple hundred years after the death of the prophet and is in itself not necessarily the Qur'an. Didn't NBK come up with some sort of great Islamic finance product recently? I don't mean the Sukuk, etc.

Metals & Mining I-Banker

Jan 24, 2007

I wear a trimmed and well kept beard, much like a lot of guys in the Middle East.

I am afraid that not all obligations come from the Qur'an - you will be struggling to work out how many prayers there are in a day if you use just the Qur'an. The beard is a fiqh issue.

From the ghetto....

Jan 24, 2007

In that case, your beard should be kept till the length of your fist. There is no obligation to keep a beard, it is kept on sunnath and the validity of hadith then comes to light. But then again, why loosely follow it, might as well not. And then, why just follow this, do you follow all sunnath?

Anyway, this is off topic. I think that beards are off.

Metals & Mining I-Banker

Jan 24, 2007

lets not start a religious debate. the worst thing a muslim can do is seek help from "scholars" and imams to gain a better understanding of islam.

in any case, i have to now and chak some phatte!

Jan 24, 2007

i meant to say i have to GO now and chak some phatte.

completely ruined my own sentiment.

Jan 24, 2007

I am not wishing to start a religious debtate.... close the book on that.....

As for the beard thing, agree to disagree.....

I won't get rid of my beard and if that puts me at a disadvantage then so be it........

From the ghetto....

Jan 24, 2007

What is this horseshit about beards in IBD? This is neither 90210 nor Riyadh. Shave and don't look like a faggot. If I was wandering around in, God forbid, Berkeley, I'd be sure to have not showered in weeks, wear Converse shoes and hold signs up denouncing the government. If I was in Riyadh, I'd wear a beach towel for the very sake that I don't get decapitated on Al-Jazzy.

It's called adapting, people. And you must adapt in order to make it, in any business.

Jan 25, 2007

Now there's a true banker reflex.

Jan 25, 2007

NoTears - your fellow Americans (and Europeans) adapt far less in other countries than someone like me has adapted to the UK.

In fact - screw you - I am not even an immigrant. I was born in the UK. I do what I want. I got a job. I wore a beard to the interviews. I graduated from Oxford, I wore a beard to my graduation.

Before that (and the time that I could grow a beard) I went to a private school, even though I was and am totally ghetto. Don't lecture me about adapting. You'd not last a second in the back streets of Detroit, let alone Riyadh (unless you were in a Westerner compund, cut off from the real society)

Let's get it on biatch (but I fear you may actually enjoy getting it on with other guys)

From the ghetto....

Jan 25, 2007

I've lost track of what day it is sometimes, and find myself with a 5 or 6 day beard. Its times like that where its good to have a spare(disposable) razor at my desk.

Jan 26, 2007

I supposed I touched a nerve to get that lame response. "but I fear you may actually enjoy blah blah blah." Good one!

Not like you have any right to know, but I was born in the U.S. and have lived in the [now] DR Congo, Zambia and Italy before coming back to the States. So NO NEED TO LECTURE ME about ADAPTING. Those who need to adapt are those f-ups who run around blowing themselves up (Arab world), who think they are immune from bullets (Uganda, etc), hippies in general, AND PEOPLE WITH FACIAL HAIR IN IBD.

"Adapting in the U.K." - half of London barely speaks English anymore; what do you mean "adapting"???

Either way, good for you with your employment, education and so forth. Oh and FYI - I went to private school too. I can guarantee you are not as ghetto as you think.

Jan 26, 2007

bro. nice one lumping the whole "arab world" into the "blowing themselves up" bucket. what is it again, 100MM+ people blowing themselves up? i somehow don't think that that is possible. get a clue. you have no idea.

for someone who has travelled as extensively as you have (3 countries, please), you do seem quite narrow minded, from your comment above. it seems that you have just picked up different kinds of bigotry. its a shame that you have missed out on broadening you perspectives a little.

background: i've grown up over 3 continents and speak 3 languages and have travelled extensively. have a great job and am successful professionally (not that that matters much).

Jan 26, 2007

Sorry if I wasn't clear - those WERE the places I grew up in (I believe my usage of the word "lived" as opposed to "travelled" should have made it blatantly obvious, but I'll give you benefit of the doubt). There are dozens places I've travelled to, but I have neither the time, nor the inclination to discuss that.

Didn't intend to offend people either. Just angered with people (mainly the original poster and the guy who said he'd sue if he was told to shave) thinking that just people he grew some pubes on his chin that his girlfriend called cute that he can come into this business with his shit hanging out.

Jan 26, 2007

I am afraid you have not retorted in any meaningful way to Relinquo's comments - your clear and obvious bigotry is laughable.

London may not speak English, but I was not born in London nor brought up there.

And how is it that I am not allowed any choice in the matter of wearing a beard? Note that Sikhs too are religiously obliged to wear a beard, and most orthodox Jews would wear one too. Are we all not allowed to work in IBD?

I would sue because I am not a facist or a bigot, and I know the law. Society, at a high level, has a sense of decency and humanity and therefore legislates in my favour. Given I live in a democracy legislation reflects the views of the majority so by that logic your opinion is fringe.

I'm sorry if this angers you. That is sad. You cannot accept why not everyone can conform to what you have enshrined in your mind as the rule and law of IBD.

From the ghetto....

Jan 28, 2007

"Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes. Think classy, you'll be classy. If you win 20 in the show, you can let the fungus grow back and the press'll think you're colorful. Until you win 20 in the show, however, it means you are a slob."

Jan 28, 2007

tier2, u didn't go to oxford! stop being such a lyin' mofo.

Jan 28, 2007

Most bankers are pretty much styless-money-seeking-brains.

If you think that you have some style and have the brass to back the facial...rock it.

Jan 28, 2007

loose it

Jan 31, 2007

I went to Oxford - from the ghetto....

Feb 3, 2007

So... does this mean I should start shaving my legs and pits too ?????

Feb 8, 2007

Is that really true? Guess investment banking is pretty much all about the money then..

Feb 10, 2007

some can pull wearing a beard, some can't.

Feb 10, 2007

some can pull wearing a beard, some can't.

Feb 11, 2007

what about if I am Captain Morgan?

Feb 11, 2007

I met a few service providers at a conference a few weeks ago with these big ole' meatchops. Needless to say, I was having a very difficult time taking either of them seriously. Guys, if you have them, shave shave shave.
Also keep in mind, it doesn't make any guy "less manly" if he waxes a unibrow.

Feb 11, 2007

facial hair or no hair...stay well groomed, neat and take pride in ur uniqueness.

Feb 15, 2007

if you stay up all night working on a project, or you accepted to be clean shaven the next day?

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