Military Officer MBA Prospects
I'm about to get out of the Military after 5 years, and I am planning on applying for MBA Programs in Fall of 2012. I've done some perusing of the boards and realize quite a few of you have a good handle on the admissions process of the top-tier MBA Programs out there. I'll list the facts and my goals below. Any helpful comments are more than welcome!
History:
Low GPA from top 15 undergrad (albeit non-ivy): 2.9*
*Basically I was a Finance Major solely for the fact that I enjoyed the subject matter, I worked 3 jobs while in school to ensure leaving with zero debt and money in the bank...this obviously led to a sub-par GPA
Passed CFA L1 first time while in the Army
Extracurricular Activities a plenty during undergrad
Top Rated Infantry Officer throughout my career
Commanded 47 Soldiers in Combat
Currently Commanding 225 Soldiers and NCOs in the States
Currently taking the Manhattan gmat course (looking to kick the GMAT's Ass in Sept)
Goals:
-Tuck right now is creeping towards being my top choice, though HBS, Yale, and most of the other Ivy's are obviously still up there and I will definitely apply there as well.
-Post MBA I'm admittedly all over the board, I'd love to get into consulting, find working at a Trading Desk/Working at a Hedge Fund would be incredible, but also have a desire to begin my own business....By Interview/essay time I will have this solidified, but an MBA will benefit any of the paths above.
-I will take the CFA Level 2 Exam in June of 2013 (Cannot do it this summer due to Military Training requirements)
Questions:
1. How much is that low GPA going to limit my choices? Am I setting my sights too high and should prepare for more safety schools?
2. For those in the post MBA Job Market, does a lack of prior, tangible Finance work experience hinder those with a military background to such a degree to make a career in Finance non-viable (i.e.- would I have to go in at a ground-level entry position in the same way as someone just coming out of undergrad?)
3. What gmat score (Ballpark) should I be shooting for to adequately compensate for my sub-par GPA?
4. I know Tuck has a fantastic program which supports veterans; how do the other Ivy's MBA Programs stack up, comparatively?
Thanks again!
I swear 15-20 years from now Wall Street is going to be run by all former military.
Score above 700 on the GMAT and you'll be in good shape, your military experience trumps your undergrad GPA. Score above 730 and you'll be golden
Fall 2012 is not a possiblity for any of the MBA programs you're going after. Top MBA programs typically don't have rolling admissions and the rounds for applying have passed (typically Oct/Nov = Rd 1, Nov/Dec = Rd 2, Dec/Jan = Rd 3, Jan/Feb/March = Rd 4). As far as handicapping your chances of getting in poetsandquants.com has a whole series on that and GMATclub.com is all about people gauging where they're at and what chances they have. If I were handicapping: your GPA is on the low side even from a top school it will take something good to overcome this but your military experience can easily convey leadership and a high GMAT (probably looking at 710+) mixed with good extra currics, recs, and interview skills will get you in to your target schools.
Also, you're right, Tuck absolutely loves vets. Tuck was my personal favorite but I got waitlisted and will in all likelihood get the dreaded ding in a month or two.
Whoops... Just realized that you meant you were applying during fall 2012 and not going to school in Fall 2012. My bad.
Side note: Apply during the early rounds for the schools you really like and later rounds for the safeties. Tuck has an early action option in September (I think) which gives you the best chance (but you will be required to go there should you get in)
I appreciate the responses! I have looked into the early action option, and that is my most likely course of action.
And yes, I should have made it more clear: I am applying this coming Fall.
Does anyone have experience with the early action program and how that might possibly boost a candidate's application? I saw an interview on youtube with a Tuck Admissions Officer in which she stated something to the effect of, early action/visiting campus (because it is in the middle of nowhere) shows a more compelling sense of commitment to Tuck. Does this commitment necessarily translate into a much more favorable perception of an application? Or just possibly a deciding factor between two candidates of a similar background?
Tuck is big on having you visit because of what you just said. They know it's in the middle of nowhere and they want you to be comfortable with this. One thing that's relatively unique to the Tuck application is that they extend interviews for everybody, if you elect to have an interview that isn't on campus you will have to explain why you chose that option. For Tuck, interviewing on campus pretty much only puts you on an even footing with the other applicants (it can only be seen as a negative if you don't interview on campus/visit).
This is the wrong crowd to be asking, as most of the guys on here were born with silver spoons tucked up their asses. I'd reach out to former military MBAers at the top 10 schools and ask them about their experiences and the application process overall, as that is the group to which you'll be compared when submitting your app. There are plenty of military guys at the top schools, and I'm sure they'd be willing to speak with you.
Good luck!
-Kellogg alum
Thanks for the responses. WSO being as large as it is, there has to be a few other military guys on here. I've seen some past threads written buy guys in similar situations, so I'd love to get some insight from any of them/anyone who has some knowledge of their process.
Hi Rayndian, I've gone to school with ex-military types, on Wall St. with ex-Military guys (and gals, really!), and coached ex-military guys on b-school stuff. First of all, thank you for your service. I mean, you rock.
I know you asked a bunch of questions, and I'd like to direct you to this great post from a guy I follow regularly called ArmyJMO http://www.armyjmo.com/2012/03/09/veteran-clubs/
He researched all the top schools and met with many of the vets clubs, so take a look at his full report. I think he's done outstanding research.
As for your GPA, it's a bit of a red flag -- and some of it depends on how your transcript reads. Admissions officers look at trends and look at what courses you took, and what kind of intellectual curiosity you showed. Your military leadership, of course, is huge, but they want to make sure that you can actually contribute to the class academically, and the CFA level 1 will take you part of the way there.
You will need to get over 80th percentile on your quantitative score to be competitive at any of the top schools. Right now that means getting a 48 or 49. They also like to see that you are balanced. And... I am maybe the only one on the planet who says this out loud, if you are a native speaker of English, you have to get a 5.5 or 6 on the writing.
Military guys blow everyone out of the water on leadership, no doubt about it. And there's loads of empirical evidence of ex-military MBAs from all branches and all schools to do well on Wall St. and in consulting. If you are organized about your plan -- and in the case of Tuck, spend a lot of time up there and with Tuckies, and keep your eye on your goal, you should find success.
Keep us posted on your progress, Betsy
There are a few of us Military guys lurking around but, I think, the vast majority are pre-MBA/aren't getting an MBA so the above advice might be a good way to go.
Check out the military threads on GMATClub, they're a fantastic source of information. Here's the latest one:
http://gmatclub.com/forum/calling-all-us-military-fall-2013-applicants-…
The last few years have had some very helpful back and forths -- these threads are easy to find using the search function.
Rayndian,
Your instincts are right. Your GPA could be an issue, but I think you've done a couple of things already and can do one more to overcome. First, you've got a valid reason for having a lower GPA and that can come out in your application. Second, you've taken the CFA and passed which demonstrates that you probably have the grey matter to succeed in school. The final thing that needs to happen is you need to do well on your GMAT. Hit the school's median score and you'll leave zero doubts.
I will tell you, however, that as important as your scores is your personal narrative- those things that come out about yourself in the application questions and in your interviews. Being military does not make you stand out. Being infantry does not make you stand out. Leading in combat does not make you stand out. Focus on the things that separate you. Specific experiences, interests, and goals. Weave it all together into a compelling story and you'll do fine, and with the right scores, you'll do fine. This advice stands for all looking at going into B-school.
Coming out of a top school you'll be competitive for finance jobs. No worries there.
Wow guys! Thanks for all of the support/answers!
I will definitely keep you updated. I'm knocking out the Manhattan GMAT Prep Course right now, and will take my first GMAT in August. I'm looking to get in touch with a few of the Veteran clubs around the various top B-Schools and have had a decent amount of response.
Now it comes down to pulling myself away from 200 phenomenal Soldiers for a while to get stuff rocking to prepare for life without a uniform.
Rayndian,
Here's another resource you may want to look at: the Pre-MBA syllabus that UCLA is doing with an outfit called Fidelis.
http://www.fideliseducation.com/sites/default/files/UCLA-Fidelis-Pre-MB…
I've met the Fidelis guys, and they are a quality bunch.
Betsy
Rayndian,
I was just in your shoes last year and I know the feeling. As others have said, your GPA is going to be a hindrance, but it can be easily overcome for the 20-11 ranked schools. For the top 10 schools it will be a bit tougher and require a very high GMAT and good essays. Those will be the two points you should absolutely put an extreme amount of focus on.
The main points of the application would be: your leadership experiences - check your recommendations - check (I mean, who's going to get bad recommendations?) your GPA - set, nothing you can do about it GMAT - up in the air essays - up in the air
I didn't spend any money on GMAT classes (did well, may be different in your situation - definitely take an online simulation) or essay consults, but looking back I wish I had worked on my essays more. I applied to HBS, Wharton, LBS, and MIT as my four schools. I received no answer back from HBS, interviewed but not accepted at Wharton, accepted with scholarship to LBS, and accepted with scholarship to MIT.
Why didn't I get into HBS and Wharton? My essays. I listed my applications above in the order I submitted them. As I submitted them I thought each of them was excellent. I even had several other military officers proof read my essays (MISTAKE!). My HBS essays were garbage. When I went back to review them after getting the ding, I thought to myself "what a bone head! How was my essay writing that bad??? I wouldn't even admit myself!" Comparing those essays to my LBS and MIT essays, I saw that I had progressively gotten MUCH better as I went along the process. Lesson - don't necessarily apply to the hardest and most desirable school first, though you should do so NLT the second round. You should get some practice with some safety schools. You as a military officer are far too used to the military writing style, which is NOT what they want to see. Also have non-military (preferably English majors) review your work. They will give you a different perspective as they will not understand some of what you write and will catch your militaryisms.
Then Wharton was kind of a fluke - I had to do my interview over Skype (I was in Afghanistan) and my interviewer obviously had better things to do. Second line he said to me - literally - "I know you're really busy so we can keep this short. I think we can be done in about 15 minutes." i.e. I have a pizza in the oven and you're keeping me from it. Lesson - go AWOL from Afghanistan to do the interviews in person.
So just took the GMAT...740 (49Q, 40V). Not sure how the verbal got that low, may have just been fatigued bc I had been consistently scoring in the 47-50's. I'm looking for some quality advice. Retake to achieve a higher score? Or let my essays and the rest of my app do the talking. Right now I plan on applying to:
HBS Kellog Tuck Darden Duke UNC
Basically in that order of preference. Any constructive help is absolutely appreciated. Thanks!
I think you should be congratulated! You got well over 80% percentile threshold in both categories, right? (guessing you got an 83% math and 90% verbal
http://www.mba.com/the-gmat/gmat-scores-and-score-reports/what-your-percentile-ranking-means.aspx
Of course your essays, recommendations, and the way you present your military experience in the resume will matter, but you have certainly done well enough to be considered seriously by the schools in your list. (Unless I am missing something??)
sorry about the duplicate post -- cannot delete
Shoot FormerHornetDriver a PM. I'm sure he will be willing to share his story with you and should be able to provide some insight on the process. His profile is here...
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/user/86590
Regards
What's going to hurt the most is the question of when they ask " Why did you go Army and not Marines?" All kidding aside, I had a deplorable Undergrad GPA and had at best an OK GMAT and got into some schools that I thought were total long shots. After 5 years in the Marines I was very nervous about entering B-School as it is such a huge transition and I only separated a matter of weeks ago, however I have quickly realized..its tough yes but nothing compared to the shit I've been through when I was in the Marines and I'm sure it's the same for you. Like M Blank said..just sell your story in your essays and interview and share how your UNIQUE military experience has influenced you and you'll be golden.
And FYI, the Vets network is very strong I've come to realize in the MBA circles.
S/F.
Military Officer Transitioning to MBA (Originally Posted: 11/25/2015)
I am currently a naval submarine officer finishing up my sea tour and heading to shore duty at a university as an ROTC instructor. I want an MBA, but the school I’m going to is far from a target school. I was hoping to get the same job at a top 20 MBA, but you can't have everything I guess. My plan now is to finish my 2 years as an ROTC instructor and then go on to an MBA. However, I am there for 2 years and want to get another degree, because I will have a bunch of free time and free tuition as a faculty member. I am planning on getting a masters in economics. As of now I think I am in a good position to apply to top MBA programs based on my undergrad GPA/Extracurriculars and work in the military. I just need to take the GMAT. I am worried that getting an extra degree will make me look like someone who doesn't know what they want to do and if I don't do well it could hurt me. Does anyone have any similar experiences or advice? I’d like to use the MBA program to find a job in banking or consulting.
I can't see why having an extra degree would hurt, unless you have really terrible grades in the extra degree. Just do try and choose something that is in line with your LT goals (which you seem to be doing).
Basically, I wouldn't worry about it. :)
Will Military work experience suffice for MBA requirements? (Originally Posted: 05/26/2015)
Good morning.
I'm in a bit of a unique situation (who isn't) and I'm trying to gain some perspective. I've spent the last 5 years in the U.S. Navy and I'm currently transitioning to T.C.U. to finish my undergrad in dual Finance/Accounting. Because of the military, I have 36 months of college in which Uncle Sam will actually pay me to attend. Additionally, I have 160 credit hours in the state of Texas I can use after the 36 months is exhausted.
I'm looking at a career in Consulting. I'm not knowledgeable enough on the career field to say which particular aspect of consulting, yet I'm most interested in either financial or strategy. I know this sounds ignorant stating I want a job in consulting but I'm not knowledgeable about the job, yet from all the research I've conducted (which is a lot) this field sounds most suited for me.
Here's my question. Will a top MBA school like UT Austin consider my 5 years of pre undergrad work experience from the Navy worthy of admissions? This, of course, is assuming a high gmat score and GPA.
I'm 27 and I will not finish my Undergrad until I'm 30. I've worked from the bottom up before and this time I would like to enter at a higher position (hence the MBA). I was in a management position for over 2 years while in the Navy, if that counts.
Thoughts?
I believe most schools stipulate that they consider work experience being post undergraduate. But I would double check that. Go ahead and give UT Austin a call and ask.
I'd be hesitant to attend an MBA program directly after undergrad even if they did "let you". By the time recruiting comes around you'll have spent the last ~5 years only in school where as most of your colleagues will have had some professional experience in the last two-ish years (at the time of interview) that may make it hard for you to be a competitive recruit. I'd try to see what sort of position you can get out of undergrad, plenty of consultancies hire plenty of candidates who don't have MBAs.
I appreciate the input. I didn't consider the interviewers perspective of me being in school for 5 years without work experience.
Hi dawsokj1988 First, thank you for your service. You military guys are so amazing.
Second...Rather than ask the MBA program or admissions only, I would suggest you reach out to the Vets Club at UT Austin and see what they say about the environment for service members like yourself, but more importantly, the recruiting situation for someone with your experience. https://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/MBA/Full-Time/Student-Life/Diversity/Mil…
Third, but no less helpful...There's a wealth of resources also on business-related career choices and paths through other Vets organizations. I'm participating in a conference run by Service2School (http://service2school.org/) that will address these very questions! (here's information on the program, if you happen to be in Seattle....) http://service2school.org/conferences/
Yes, MBA admissions will consider your pre MBA experience, but what did you do in the Navy?
If I were I tried to get in the best undergrad you can get into, link up w McKinsey recruiters and try to get in there BC they have a military program for pre MBAs.
Betsy, thank you for those resources. I'm actually located on Whidbey Island currently, but my tour is up very soon and I'll be driving cross country to Texas.
IvyLeageVet, in the Navy I work in aviation. More specifically, the avionics systems within jets. I started as a tech, became a production manager, and now a personnel manager. I've been involved with the Navy's version of lean sig sigma and I ran a project to help modify the engineering of a firing system to reduce failure rates while deployed on the Eisenhower. The concern is that the majority of military members I read or hear about going to MBB are prior officers, not enlisted.
Military officer M7 MBA chances? (Originally Posted: 02/05/2015)
Hi guys, I'd prefer to keep this short and sweet for a variety of reasons (chief among them anonymity). After spending close to 15 years in both the various special operations forces (in the military) and other government agencies, I'm currently considering attending business school. My gmat score is a 727 and I had received a 3.7 GPA for my BA from a top school in the NYC area.
Do I stand a chance at any of the top schools?
Thanks.
You have zero chance of getting in anywhere because that gmat score doesn't exist.
score estimator/calculator. Should have discussed that, sorry.
You're likely at the very to of their age range but otherwise have an excellent profile. You should get in somewhere good.
Another military to MBA post (Originally Posted: 01/10/2014)
Fellas,
I'm currently serving as an infantry officer in the Marine Corps, looking a couple years down the line to my ultimate goal of getting out and starting a finance career. A little bit about my background: UG in Accounting and Finance from a top 15 school, 3.45 GPA (took 145 credits), joined the Marine Corps in 2011, always wanted to do finance (no, I didn't go to IOC so it would look good for MBA recruiting, I wanted to be a part of something awesome). For some of the military types on the board, you may have heard of the Marine Corps career designation boards which are pretty competitive--I will be screened in the next year just to see if I can stay past 2015 if I want to.
I've drawn up a couple courses of action to pursue this degree; I'd like to hear from everyone/anyone on which may be the best course of action. One thing of note, I am married and my wife is having out first (of hopefully many) son this year, so keep this is mind as you pass judgment. As cool as I am with crashing at my parents' house and catching loops at the golf club I grew up caddying at to pay the bills, she would not be cool with this.
So here are my options as I see them:
Get out, go full time MBA Pros: program, brand, recruiting Cons: positive net worth turns into j-curve, quick
Stay in another tour, get GI bill benefits to vest, get out, FT. Pros: same as above Cons: will be 29 when I start program... Too old?
Get out, work FT, pursue degree part time Pros: cash flow stays up, build finance experience Cons: may be entry-level. Loss of MBA prestige? Ie H/S/W out the door. Maybe guys who offered me jobs with them when I got out were just being nice.
Stay in for another tour, get MBA part time Pros: steady income, work experience and degree when I get out Cons: would have to settle for PT program in region where I am sent (Georgetown/GW only if I get sent there) or online... Big loss of prestige and recruiting options.
I apologize in advance for any misspellings or grammatical/formatting issues as I am doing this on my phone. I'd love to hear the perspectives everyone has to bring--I still have at least a deployment left in me, but doesn't hurt to start planning early and often.
As for my post-MBA plans, I'd ultimately like to work in MM PE, though I wouldn't mind doing something related to aerospace/defense in an IBD if it gets a foot in the door.
Also, I've gotten a couple messages from monkeys asking about the military life, so feel free to ask any questions you may have.
I'd decide between 1 and 2 based on what you want. For what it's worth, we have quite a few military folks in my program (M7) and 29 doesn't seem too old at all.
There's another vet on this board who worked in MM PE prior to a full-time MBA - Cplbravo, I believe. Probably worth reaching out.
I think PT programs are out of the question. That would be useful if you put in your 20 years and wanted to get out and start your own consulting company or if your network was so strong that you could land a job without career services. This isn’t your case, so I think FT is for you.
Like falcon said, 29 is not too old for an MBA. I think it boils down to how happy you current are in the USMC. I would lean with option 2. If you’re having a kid now (congratulations), this may not be the time to move and cut off a solid source of income and (presumably) take out lots of loans. I know the GI Bill won’t cover all your tuition and fees, but it certainly helps.
Another thing to consider is timing. Right now is too late to start applying to start an MBA in the fall, so at the earliest you could start would be next fall–18 months away. I’m not sure how that would affect your timeline, but it is something to consider.
Best of luck. Business schools love officers due to their leadership experience and to see someone not from consulting or banking. Get a 700+ on the GMAT and you should have a pretty good chance at a top 10 MBA program.
Options 1 and 2 are really your only options to get to where you say your ultimate career goals are. In most cases I would say option 1 but being married and having a kid on the way changes things. Will your wife be working or a stay at home mother? In most cases the extra GI Bill benefits aren't worth it. You serve 3 additional years and get what amounts to probably $60,000 in benefits. Now compare the difference in salary as an officer for 3 years to the money you would make in finance over those 3 years and that $60k is nothing. Be aware that BAH benefits are pro-rated for only the dates you are in school so you get maybe 7 months worth of BAH each year which can change the cost/benefits analysis a bit. However if you have to support a wife and at least 1 child then the BAH and tuition payments might make a big difference in quality of life. Also how much do you have saved up to live on? Your max loan amount will be determined by the school's estimate (which are always really low) and won't take into account your wife and child. So you will not be able to finance 100% of your tuition and living expenses for the 2 years.
As for the age, I started my MBA at 28 and most of the military at my M7 program are between 28-32 so you would be perfectly average.
I'm going to have somewhere between 30-35k set aside for the program before I start, but I am just looking down the road at this point. I'm planning to study for the GMAT a bit during my next deployment in what little down time I may have, but the earliest I could start would be fall 2015 and latest (with COA 2) fall 2018.
Did anyone find the military types who were older having a hard time falling into Associate roles based upon the later responsibilities they had while serving?
First round interviews just started so it's a little early to say but I don't think so. Everybody is getting interview invites just fine for both IB and consulting gigs. I'm not recruiting for either of those so I can't offer much more insight other than what I hear from fellow military classmates.
Skip the MBA and get an Associate position through GS VIP.
Based on your goals I would say option 1 or 2.
If you are concerned about being 29 at the start, don't be. That's not all that old in general and only very slightly above average for vets starting. You won't have any age issues. Just be prepared to have some sort of reasonable answer during admissions interviews for why you decided to stay in for one more tour. ("I really wanted to take this X opportunity in Japan" "My wife had just started a job and we didn't want to transition yet," etc as applicable)
One thing about the GI Bill ROI calculation. I would agree that 60k isn't a ton in the long run, but if you go somewhere that offers good Yellow Ribbon participation in addition to the GI BIll, it can be significantly more than that. And, provided a bit of savings, you can definitely end up with a 100% debt free top 15 MBA. If your wife is stay-at-home, that's a very nice thing to have. Even if she isn't it still is. Aside from Yellow Ribbon, many schools who do not participate or don't participate fully in YR, do offer targeted scholarships to Vets designed to make them more appealing given that some of their competitors do participate. I have heard Booth does this for nearly all Vets from a friend who went there, and I understand some other programs do as well. Talk to the financial aid offices of the schools you're considering to find out their exact participation in YR and try to feel them out for if they have any unofficial policy of offering a certain amount of scholarships to vets. You can also get in touch with their respective Veteran student organizations. Get all the details, because some of them participate 100%, others $X amount, others cap it at X students per year who can recieve, others do not, etc.
Also, on money, consider doing reserves during your time in school whether option 1 or 2. It's about 10k/yr extra pocket change for a minimal commitment. Nearly as importantly (esp with family) you can get some very affordable TriCare as a reservist compared to the cost of whatever health care program the MBA program offers for students. Ends up usually about a 12-15k difference per year between doing or not doing reserves for your MBA time. I was skeptical whether it was feasible with the time commitments of the MBA, recruiting, and reserves, but I've spoken with students doing it who have assured me that it's not unreasonable to meet the requirements of both. I wouldn't necessarily make the same argument for post-MBA, but you can cross that bridge when you come to it. Provided you don't take a bonus and sign a set length contract, it's much easier to resign a reserve commission than the ungodly drawn out process of leaving AD.
GS VIP… check it out. And if you want to do the MBA route, 29 isn't old at all.
29 definitely isn't old. A fellow vet at my program is a RETIRED O5 from the Navy. He got a great Fortune 500 gig, no problem. Not exactly what you were concerned about with an associate role, but plans may change.
Id be careful in the reserve side. Seems like the reserve weekend always falls where it hurts you the most in recruiting. And we've got a guy graduating here soon and headed out on a deployment. Definitely not a great way to start your new MBA career. With a wife and kid Tricare means more to you than it did to me, but GI Bill will cover your healthcare at least (pays for school plan).
Luckily for you, designation isn't as deep as it once was (I got offered it when it was a 55% cut rate!) So if you start your MBA soon it should at least be your choice. Good luck and keep us posted. I'm wrapping my MBA up real soon, feel free to PM if you've got any questions.
assume I'm a fool--but I'd like that GI bill. That allows you to worry little about tuition and it's very darn valuable (considering that you don't need to waste time paying it down)
Post MBA prospects from military background (Originally Posted: 06/26/2012)
Hello, everyone, I'm looking for a little advice about how I should decide my current path through B-school and possible finance/HF prospects afterwards.
A little background on me - I am a prior Army officer with 5 years work experience, 2 of which focused on logistics and contracting. I was a 2007 graduate from West Point with a degree in mechanical engineering. Right now, I am at MIT's LGO program (dual MBA with Sloan and SM in MechE that prepares for you for an operations role). 720 on the GMAT.
One of the main points that brought me to the MIT program was the substantial LGO tuition grants due to contributions of partner companies. Great thing is we get the tuition grants and are not obligated to work for the partner companies either. Afterwards, working with a partner company comes with additional benefits not usually prescribed to other MBA hires. I was actually really looking forward to working for GM or Intel (two of the partner companies), but recently found out that they are not looking to actually hire as of right now (due to world situations and what not).
Anyhow, that news started me thinking that I need to look in other directions for employment afterwards. I have my first elective class selections coming up and have an opportunity to greatly influence what I will ultimately learn. I will already be taking a lot of leadership and operations management courses (as required in LGO), but I still have quite a bit of flexibility.
So my questions are theres: 1) I am a candidate that a finance sector (such as HFs) would look at? 2) If I were to go that direction, how much of my course work do I need to refocus to finance? 3) Are there any types of courses in particular that would be crucial to my success later?
Part of what makes Q#2 tricky is that I am not sure how likely of a candidate I would be for financial jobs so I don't want to lose all of my flexibility and abandon ops/supply chain/management completely. But, if everyone on here advises that if I go the finance route I need to max out all finance classes then that is something I will have to reflect on further.
Prob not a player for HFs right out of B-school, but if you maximize your finance exposure you are in good shape for IBD, which could lead to HF later on.....especially with an engineering undergrad.
PM me and we can connect more as I have a similar background and am headed to BB IBD this summer.
Military Officer Transition Dilemma- Do I need to go to Top 5 MBA School to gain employment in Hedge Fund Arena? (Originally Posted: 04/06/2013)
Hello All,
Let me apologize in advance for the length of this profile and series of questions. It is a hybrid of career choice and school questions- I am considering the necessity of MBA school / chances / where to apply and believe I understand the nuances of most schools inside the top 20.
I am an Air Force Captain with about 7 years' service. Undergrad double major in Supply Chain/Econ from one of the better Big Ten schools with a 3.7 GPA. Also have an MSc in Quant Finance from an average Pac-Twelve School (not in California!) but with a fairly robust curriculum and 3.8 GPA.
My AFSC (MOS) is in the Finance arena, but have had some very atypical assignments, have checked the blocks on deployments to both major AORs in ways that were not standard Bob on the Fob G-8, and am currently working at an Embassy assignment... fair amount of breadth and I'm reasonably sure that for a non combat arms role my profile is strong - would be grateful for feedback on my Linkedin/Resume and would happy to provide on a PM.
I have also passed my CFA Level 1 exam and will be sitting for the Level 2 in June.
BLUF: I want to work at a hedge fund full stop, first as an analyst, and progressing to a portfolio manager. Eventually I want to run my own fund and if all goes well I have some longer term plans about how I would want to build out the fund and turn it into more of a venture philanthropy/ emerging mkt micro venture capital endeavor - this would be the crux of any essays I would put in for MBA schools. I would also attempt to parlay my international experience in essays. This plan has evolved, but for the most part it is what I've wanted to do since my junior year of college. I feel as though the career progression I've sought is pretty self-explanatory to any school with the Master's degree concentration and the CFA, and my rationale would be the school as a natural pipeline for a career change and network exposure.
My dilemma is as follows: I am questioning the necessity of attending MBA school at all, because last year I was seriously considering getting out and managed to land interviews at several of the BB banks in NY, which at the time I viewed as a critical stepping stone to the alternative asset space. Managed to land one job offer in the market reg side in oil futures surveillance, but the salary offered was on par with a first time job out of undergrad. I have a spouse with grad school debt and we could not make the numbers work in NYC. I worked closely with Veterans on Wall Street to get to these interviews, but the industry was in such flux with Dodd-Frank at the time that 4 firms asked me to wait until summertime. That said, I've maintained contact with my interviewers and hope/think that they will keep me in mind down the road.
In parallel I was offered this very unique Embassy job opportunity; my wife is in the NGO/Int'l Development arena and we had to jump at the chance. In the Air Force you only have 5 days to accept an assignment selection or you have to establish a date of separation and no deferral of an offer. Fast forward to today and we have another year left here, but possibly up to two years if I put in for an extension.
Leading up to the week that I accepted the overseas job, I had been cultivating relationships with a few hedge fund managers and sought their counsel - a common piece of advice I got was get the international/life experience, skip the MBA completely, pursue the CFA, and learn Python programming. They also recommended trying to start directly at a HF rather than try to navigate the as-of-yet uncertain maze of what Sales/Trading desks at the big banks will look like post the major regulatory changes. Although they personally said they would speak to me when I returned home - 2 years is a long time and there are no guarantees.
Since before I was commissioned I've been trading equities/options on my own and have managed to grow the portfolio to a fairly comfortable level (market hours are friendly in SWA); I have all of my transactions documented and can verify performance figures. As an undergrad I was also active in my school's investment association which at the time was running the largest student run fund in the world, and studied in the UK my junior year that concluded with a short internship in London at the LME and a week survey at the Bank of England.
Back when I was applying for the Master's program I didn't do as well on the GMAT as hoped and got a 660 which I attribute to poor time management. But that was 7 years ago meaning it is off the books at this point, and I am quite confident I could push above 700 with a reasonable amount of prep.
First, given all the above details, is there an overly compelling need for me to go to MBA school? The fact that I was offered an analyst/undergrad position is a concern I have because an analyst's salary will not work for me in either NYC or SF as family planning is going to be a reality in the very near future. The other big banks seemed to be hinting at a senior analyst level or even associate position, but likely for a summer offer. I certainly understand the risk they are assuming with an unproven person coming into a new industry. Since that time many of the large firms have come out with military specific programs, which they may have known about when we were speaking, but were not public at that point. Believe me, I have heard and understand the "You're taking the difficult path" rather than the natural one by NOT going to MBA school.
Although there are differences between top MBA salaries over the course of career by most normal metrics, in my specific case I'm wondering if the lost opportunity cost is worth it... I will be a little older than your standard post Academy/ROTC guy and low 30s should be prime earning years, even if I am able to attend school cheaply or even for free with Post 9/11 and Yellow Ribbon. I remember looking at Johnson's 1 year program but the issue with that is no opportunity for an internship and you're left to your own devices at graduation- could be stated from a position of ignorance but I spoke with a few of the military guys there at the time and they recommended going for the 2 year one. With 1 year, the time isn't automatically built in so most of your school experience would be trying to get recruited.
If school is absolutely the way to go, for hedge fund specific positions, are there any other schools to seriously consider than Columbia, Wharton, NYU, and Booth? MIT certainly has a lot of academia in that realm with Andrew Lo's finance lab, but I perceive it to be more an operations/quant/management place. For West Coast, I would think both Haas and Anderson are well represented, but Stanford (impossibly tough to get into) seems to be much more tailored to the VC/PE/Startup set.
Is there any factor that I am not thinking about that I should give more consideration? With a 700 GMAT & reasonable quant is there anything more that you would recommend in terms of application approaches other than what I've already mentioned?
Thank you very much in advance for any advice you can offer, and once again I apologize for the length of this post.
Based on what you wrote here, you have no relevant experience (things you did on your own time don't count, good and all but you're going to be going up against people younger than you, with experience, and likely did the same things on their own time), you are older than the typical candidate, and you're married. The last two points are only brought up because depending on the spot, your ability to be worked to the bone will be important and being married at the prime age when people start having kids will put that in doubt. I know some may disagree on this.
How much additional debt will you have to take on for an MBA? Do you have any idea of what your chances are to land a spot in a top program? If you can't afford to live in NYC on a first year's salary, besides taking out additional debt, how are you going to afford to live with no salary at all? What type of/what fund(s) are you interested in? Do they actively recruit at any of the schools you have a chance to get into?
Honestly, based on what you wrote I think your best chance is with keeping in touch with these fund managers, do as much additional networking as you can, and plan your extension/MBA plans on that. Your biggest weakness is lack of experience. Extension = another year that you could have either gotten relevant experience or half of your MBA done. You already have a non-standard background and no experience so your best chances are going to come from someone recognizing your potential and seeing that you are hungry. That's only going to come from networking.
Thanks for the response, I do appreciate it.
Absolutely understand that I will be older. Wife understands; as of yet we have no children and she's committed to working in NY for her own career aspirations.
I do think that there's a misconception that Hedge Funds = Investment Banking Analyst. The former is about doing value added work, and the latter is about paying your dues. In Iraq and Afghanistan 16-20 hour days 7 days a week were rather common - did that for 2+ years with my spouse physically separated. 12 - 14 hours 5 days a week (and occasionally 6 or 7) but with the opportunity to go home shouldn't be impossible.
As for debt, that would be heavily dependent on where I went to school. I qualify for the post 9/11 GI Bill and many of the schools have the Yellow Ribbon program, but they vary widely. I have considered applying for a few job out there that help defray the costs of the MBA and guarantee at least 1 internship provided I can get into the school. The most helpful part is the monthly living allowance. But in raw number terms, here's a quick breakdown of a few:
School Year 1 Tuition & Fees Year 2 Tuition & Fees GI Bill Tuition Assistance (2 Years) Yellow Ribbon Slots Yellow Ribbon Amount Total Out of Pocket Costs (2 Years) Living Allowance per month
Columbia $58,750 $58,750 $35,000 32 $2,500 $72,500 $2,754 Chicago (Booth) $55,872 $54,252 $35,000 10 $4,540 $56,964 $1,566 Harvard Business School $61,396 $61,396 $35,000 60 $10,000 $47,792 $2,274 New York (Stern) $51,942 $51,942 $35,000 25 $10,000 $28,884 $2,754 Stanford GSB $56,928 $56,928 $35,000 Unlimited$9,000 $42,856 $2,076 UPenn (Wharton) $61,082 $61,082 $35,000 30 $10,000 $47,164 $1,623
Clearly, Columbia GSB is by far the most out of pocket by almost $20K at the next highest outlay school and nearly $30K vs all others and that would certainly have to go into my value consideration vs an analyst job and doing Stern at night, as an example.
Berkeley, Michigan, Virginia, and UCLA would all be completely free as they are public schools. The only other schools guaranteeing 'free' out of pocket costs are Fuqua and Johnson. Tuck and Kellogg are very generous and the out of pocket cost would be less than $15K.
The above advice is good and very realistic, but I disagree with the first paragraph. Plenty of funds are looking to develop someone over time, not just work them to the bone. This section you wrote:
...is the main section relevant to your job search. The PMs you spoke to gave you good advice. What you have done in your own time, your investment philosophy and experience, is absolutely relevant. For fundamental investing, your international experience and unique perspective could be valuable as well. Now, you have to be realistic, it's not going to compare well against someone who has been in the industry for a long time, so you might be entering at a lower level than most people your age. But if you are knowledgeable and skilled and willing to learn/adapt, you have a real shot at getting a seat. A few things to keep in mind:
I did qualify that with "depending on the spot". I think it's realistic that you're probably going to be working longer hours than less.
Where the Military Vet MBAs are Heading for the summer (Originally Posted: 05/26/2011)
In case anyone is interested in where this summer's class of military vet MBAs will be going, here are some preliminary numbers:
Investment Banking BAML - 1 Barclays - 1 Credit Suisse - 5 Deutsche Bank - 4 Goldman - 7 Harris Williams - 1 Jefferies - 2 JPMorgan - 3 Lazard - 1 Morgan Stanley - 7 UBS - 1 William Blair & Co. - 1
Sales and Trading BAML - 2 BarCap - 1 Citi - 1 Credit Suisse - 2 Deutsche Bank - 4 UBS - 1
There are also a few folks heading to shops like PIMCO and PE firms, but this is the banking breakdown. Hope this is helpful to the vets thinking of heading off to MBAs
x
I'd dare say this is for all or a lot of the vets moving to Wall Street. The number of Associates is way lower than the number of Analysts to start with, and throwing in the military experience factor...
Damn. Goldman and MS love them some vets....Maybe I should get my MBA...
Which school is this?
What school?
you guys do realize that this isn't ONE school. people add up the #s...
These numbers reflect about a dozen top tier schools. The schools that you expect to be turning out a lot of bankers are turning out a lot of bankers. The schools that don't turn out that many bankers, didn't turn out that many bankers. This data does not have the school break down for a reason, if it were included the natural flame war would likely occur. These are just stats that I am putting out there for the vets who are thinking about picking up an MBA, so that they know what the picture looks like on the other side.
Of the vets I know who recruiting banking, everyone ended up with a job at a good firm.
Military guy's chances at top MBA (Originally Posted: 10/16/2012)
Here are some quick stats:
-4 years infantry (officer) -710 GMAT -3.62 GPA from complete non-target -triple major (BS accounting, BS finance, BA economics)
I would want to attend a business school that MBB or other top consultancy firms recruit at. What are my chances at HWS and the like?
Thanks in advance for any help :)
EDIT: Not sure if this matters, but I am 27 years old.
I would say your almost guaranteed in at an M7. HWS might be harder because there are applicants from West Point and Annapolis with 3.7+ GPA's who might be considered "comparable candidates" to you just like the finance people compete with other finance people, entrepreneurs compete with other entrepreneurs, etc.
Wtf OP - 3 different sets of stats?
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/what-shot-do-i-have-at-a-top-5-mba http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/which-mba-programs-am-i-competiti…
[quote=Husky32]Wtf OP - 3 different sets of stats?
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/what-shot-do-i-have-at-a-top-5-mba http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/which-mba-programs-am-i-competiti…]
Good find.
Yeah, wallstreet, what the hell? If you haven't done any of these things then why don't you just ask for advice on what you should do after school instead of misrepresenting yourself? I know this is an internet forum, and in theory, you can be whoever you want to be, but have respect for everyones time on here and the community will be more likely to help you.
^^ Schizophrenia?
Are you just testing the waters to figure out how to lie on your resume?
That's really fucking low you scumbag. Also, at least at my school (one of the ones you're asking about), the adcom has the veteran's club take a look at military applications to make sure their experience makes sense. You can't fake that as a civilian, there's so much random stuff that end up on your resume in the military. And for all admits they still have fact checkers run through references and experiences before formally extending the offer.
I should just forward this link to the admissions office anyway. 710 GMAT, 3.62 GPA, triple major from a non-target.
I think this guy might be an undergrad and would like to see which career path would best lead him to HWS.
http://militarytobusiness.blogspot.com/
Just make sure you get your Gunny how imperative it is for you to get into M7 and for him to please look over your application. They are really good at helping junior officers with these things and have amazing attention to detail.
If you're trying to ascertain whether you should join the military to improve your chances of getting into an MBA program you should really reconsider. Especially if you want to be an infantryman. I had a triple major(different degrees, 3.69GPA), a higher GMAT(740) and spent 6 years as an enlisted infantryman (including combat tours) and I got into several M7s (during the last round too).
If you're going to be an infantryman, you aren't going to coast through 4 years. Everyday is a grind. And lets not forget that you could be killed or wounded in a serious manner which will change your whole life outlook. It is not just something you do to "check the box." You have to want to serve if you want to be a good leader. People's lives depend on your ability and commitment... it's not just money. You don't want to walk through life knowing your lack of dedication cost people their life.
If you're lying, adcom will sniff that out (and likely call all the other adcoms). Every Veteran that is considered for admissions is going to be vetted by current Veterans like somebody above said. And we can sniff out the bullshit a mile a way. Some schools have Veterans on staff that interview other Veterans... Not to mention that you will have to submit a DD-214 to a background checking agency.
Gap year Transitioning from Army to MBA program (Originally Posted: 08/01/2015)
I've decided to put my UQR (resignation) in to leave the military, and due to the MBA application cycle I'm not particularly set up well for Schools starting in '16 as I still need to study and crush the GMAT which means at the earliest I'm applying in Round 2, which I know significantly reduces my chances at a lot of the top schools. On the other hand, since I'll be leaving sometime early spring/summer next year, I'll have over a year before I start an MBA in '17.
I'd like to start working somewhere in my gap time, but I'm worried given that I have no civilian/corporate work experience and don't want to take a less prestigious position which would hurt my brand. I know that GS and other banks have programs for transitioning veterans, which I'll be applying to but those are extremely competitive for the division I want so it's by no means a sure thing. Being unemployed isn't really an option either. Can I take a year off and travel the world without hurting my chances of getting into an MBA business schools">M7 school? Anyone been in a similar position, and if so, what did you do?
My stats:
GPA: 3.6 from a top public school (UNC/UVA/UMICH) GMAT: Studying now but my goal is 720+ WE: Army Infantry officer, consistently rated in the top 5% of my peers, selected for a leadership position usually filled by a higher ranking officer with 2-3 years more experience.
Ultimately I want to work at MBB consulting or corporate strategy, although I'm interested in tech firms and potentially finance as well, but I'm keeping my options open since I have no first hand experience in any of these areas.
I appreciate any general advice on how to better set myself up for success or stories from people in a similar situation.
For consulting? Wouldn't recommend taking a year off. It's bad for both the MBA application and on your resume later.
With your profile you shouldn't have a problem getting into Cameron Brook's program or using LucasGroup. Both of those placement firms will offer significantly better opportunities than their peers.
Also look into applying to Deloitte as an experienced hire. You won't be coming in at the MBA salary but it's good for the resume. Ditto for any peer companies you can get into.
Look at Bulge Bracket ops. Granted it's not the front office jobs everyone on here wants but those jobs are easy for military officers to get into (especially if you have a good GPA from a top state school) and simply having the name of a prestigious firm on your resume will, for whatever idiotic reason, make adcoms like you more.
It's also not as good for your resume but there's a lot of options if you're willing to work overseas. GE is a good example. Their officer placement program has some shitty locations but the jobs and compensation are good. P
PM a contact @ McKinsey for their vet program.
Veterans and MBA Programs (Originally Posted: 10/23/2015)
I will be a separating veteran looking to matriculate into an MBA program in 2017. I went to a BigTen uni, and admittedly I did not perform academically (3.1 GPA in finance). I am currently in a special operations unit, but I'm also enlisted. I am set on I-banking (advisory), but I think even with a 700+ I will not be able to get into a top 20 program. Would it be better to shoot for a part-time program at a much better school like Ross or Kellogg? Is the military network strong enough to overcome lackluster part-time recruiting? Or would it be better to aim for a 20-30 ranked school? Would I even have decent odds at a banking job from the higher ranked programs? Are some MBA programs more eager or willing to admit veterans or are my chances at each school loosely correlated to its rank? I do have the full GI Bill so cost is really not a concern. My dream schools are Booth, Kellogg, and Ross, but I think they might be a bit of a reach. Are there consultants who can accurately handicap my odds of admission to some of the schools I'm interested in? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers, Milton
PM me to talk more, but I'd say you are better off going to a 20-30 ranked school. Don't go part time.
I'm not in banking, so can't talk about how competitive of a candidate you are overall. But I think you'll be fine with your experience + good GMAT+ top 20-30 program.
There are programs and employers that are specifically targeting to grow their veteran cohorts.
Send me a pm and we'll talk more. I also went to a big ten undergrad and am a current officer heading to an MBA business schools">M7 next year. I think you may be selling yourself a bit short; a 3.1 isn't terrible and special operations units are impressive regardless of officer or enlisted.
Are you kidding me? I know a couple people who got into top 20 programs, some with stats that were slightly worse than yours.
And yes MBA business schools">M7 might be a bit of a stretch but give it a shot anyway. Also look at Emory/Vanderbilt (target schools for the BB groups in Charlotte), the Texas Schools (ditto for Houston/Dallas), Georgetown, Carnegie Mellon, Kelley, and (if your recommendations are great) Tuck.
I personally know vets from Kelley, Emory, Carnegie, Ross, and Georgetown who got into BB and EB jobs. It's very possible....IF you want it bad enough to hustle.
More importantly if you can get into a reputable program (Don't go below top 25 if you can help it) you'll find that the vet connection is extremely powerful. Those guys help each other out aggressively and from what I've witnessed they seem to be much more candid with each other than the average.
Veterans and MBA is synonmaous or however it's spelled with UVA...when I hear a veteran that wants to get an MBA I automatically think go to Darden.
Prereqs for top mba schools? military? (Originally Posted: 02/16/2008)
hi, i read before that being an officer helps for mba, i.e. infantry. but what about enlisted special ops jobs? would it be not as good if you enlisted after college, i.e. lack of leadership, or would the special ops aspect compensate for it? thanks.
i'm curious about this too about enlisted in general after college. any comments?
From my observations, any military is looked upon quite favorably. Obviously if you're a seal that has cache but I have a good friend at HBS who went to west point and told me that, though his military experience is very very average (mostly just hung out in San Diego), MBA admissions people thought it was amazing just because they don't know any better. We have a navy fighter pilot in my class, and there was a SEAL 2 classes ahead of me, but it seems military in general carries a lot of weight.
top MBA for a veteran? (Originally Posted: 04/14/2015)
I've gone through previous posts on here regarding the subject, but haven't found anything that pertains to my experience. I am interested in getting an MBA from a top 10 school (whether as a dual degree or the following year) and then working in corporate development at a major biotech or pharmaceutical company.
Brief summation of my experience: - graduated with a 3.85 in economics and biology from a school ranked somewhere between 70-85. Graduated in 2.5 years. - summer internship in wealth management (probably isn't applicable) - Air Force PJ (Pararescuemen for those not familiar - Air Force Special Forces, and no I was not featured in the National Geographic documentary, lol). - Multiple tours in Afghanistan. - starting an MPH at a top 5 school (US News) this fall. - GRE: 165 V and 162 Q (willing to consider taking the GMAT). - Professional working proficiency in Arabic.
Thanks for any feedback. I appreciate it.
In short, you're in range for the top 8 schools that they're worth giving a serious shot (apply to 4-6 schools between H/S/W, Kellogg, Sloan, Booth, Columbia, Tuck).
Only concern is your GRE, which translates to a 690 GMAT -- not absolutely fatal, but it'll be a handicap. Thankfully your GPA is strong by any standard (not just compared to vets), so that's why your GRE isn't going to be a deal breaker. However, if you want to maximize your chances, you may want to spend some time either retaking the GRE, or taking the GMAT and shooting for a 720+ (or the GRE equivalent of a 720+). Given that it takes around 6-10 weeks total to complete a batch of applications 4-6 schools, you still have time to focus solely on taking the exam in the next 2-3 months or so, and then turning your full attention on your applications in mid-July (or as late as August) with plenty of time to complete them for the October Round 1 deadlines.
Good luck
Thank you for your quick response. I'm definitely more than willing to take the GMAT. I'll spend this summer studying for it. Would you recommend the MGMAT materials?
Also, will a lack of substantial ECs be a hindrance or do my experiences make up for some of it?
Thank you for your service.
Is this the documentary?
If so, then total bad ass!
Yes, that is the documentary. Thanks
I think you should consider your competition, and why you need an MBA after MPH. MPH is very specific and MBA is general management--requires lots of management experiences. I understand that you're a veteran, but as the wars came up during last decade, many soldiers have war-related experiences, which dilutes your competitive advantage.
Thank you for your response. I just got out of the military and the MPH is a way for me to get some closure for my experiences. I also believe that it will be applicable to what I want to do in the future (biotech/pharma) and is another thing that I'm passionate about. I also do believe that I have a lot of management experience - it is just not in the traditional setting.
As a veteran, I respectfully disagree with your assessment of war-related experiences and it diluting our competitive advantage. You're attempting to compare apples to oranges by lumping all servicemen together.
I'll definitely keep your post in mind and you raised some interesting points. Thanks again.
Sorry for another unrelated comment, but is it true that you guys have the highest attrition rate in training out of all the special ops groups? I started watching the documentary haha
I believe so. It's something that I never really cared about, but I think it is somewhere around 90%.
Adcoms are quite familiar with the different branches of the military. They know the service academies, ROTC, as well as the service commitments within the different branches. While they may not know it as intimately as someone who actually served, they know more than most, and certainly enough to separate one applicant from another.
Thanks for the clarification!. it's great to know a little more
For HC focus, you should look into Wharton, Kellogg and Fuqua.
thank you for your service!
Air Force to MBA (Originally Posted: 05/31/2017)
I am leaving the Air Force within a year and I have a bachelor's degree in Radiological Sciences (was an x-ray tech). I am wondering how much that will be held against me I have a 3.8 GPA and I plan on attending McCombs full-time.
gmat score?
Sorry 680
I think your biggest hurdle will be coming up with a story that pulls everything together. You're a radiation tech, cool. Are you passionate about healthcare and an MBA is the missing link between where you are and bettering the world of healthcare? If you have a story and possibly a higher GMAT I'd think you have a shot.
(Advice Needed) MBA Programs for Vets (Originally Posted: 07/16/2017)
Monkeys,
I am currently studying for the GMAT and set to apply to MBA programs for the 2018 class. I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam on this site, but I'm still unsure about where to apply to business school. I'm a little older than other applicants, currently 32. I am also active duty, an enlisted NCO, and in a special operations unit. My college GPA was abysmal, only a 3.2 in finance at a middle tier BigTen school. My gmat practice tests have been around 680. I just had some final questions before I sit for the GMAT and begin writing essays. Due to my age I only have one shot, so I need to get into a quality school. How can I best handicap my odds of admission into a top 25 program? At a certain point won't I be diluting my applications if I apply to too many programs? I would like to work in investment banking or consulting and I'm considering Michigan, UVA, UNC, UT, IU, Vandy, Emory, Duke, and Wisconsin. Obviously the state schools are most appealing due to the GI Bill funding. Does anyone have any advice regarding schools, applications, GMAT prep, or veteran opportunities post MBA? Should I also include PT programs with much higher rankings. I think I would be a solid PT candidate at much higher ranked programs like Kellogg, Booth, or Stern, but I'm concerned about on campus recruiting and employment opportunities from PT programs. Does anyone have any anecdotal information from veteran classmates? I need to get in where I fit in.
Thanks for reading, Luis
Don't apply to IU, Vandy, Emory or Wisconsin if you want to do banking or consulting. If you are able to hit 680-700, can tell your story in your apps, you should be able to get into a couple of these: Mich/UVA/Duke/Stern/Cornell/Tuck/Yale. Pick a few of those. Target a few reach schools based on your preference for location (Booth/Kellogg/Columbia). Pick a safety like UNC since you mentioned that you only have one shot.
Also, I would not recommend a PT program. We get e-mails from PT program students and they are largely ignored. There are too many qualified candidates from FT programs where we already have established pipelines.
Yale. It's on the come up and they love vets
Thanks for the advice. Anyone else want to chime in?
a solid choice may be in top 15. 15-25 is a big dropoff unfortunately. your profile (academic) might not be a superstar for the first half of Top 15, but you can spin your vet experiences into a reliable professional in future.
MBA for Vets (Originally Posted: 10/23/2014)
Many veterans come out of undergrad with some benefits remaining and eligibility to attend state schools MBAs for free. When you way the cost of an almost free first year private vs a completely free public MBA, how do you think it should play out? Particularly comparing a school like UT McCombs vs a MBA business schools">M7 school. (Full time MBA, and i would like to get inputs from all industries i.e. consulting, banking, corporate...) Thank you.
There's a guy who occasionally posts on here, "militarytobusiness" who has a great blog on this (pops up quick in google searches). He does a really nice job of breaking down the costs for the MBA and other things I wanted to know as a vet, I would seriously spend an hour just browsing through that site to get a good background.
Depends what you want to do after it. If you want to have a shot at banking, MBA business schools">M7, but if you just want a f500, top publics are fine.
I'm a vet who is graduating from an MBA program this May, headed into a M/B/B consulting gig. Feel free to PM me to chat more. I went to a public school, so free tuition + BAH + school scholarship.
My short, public answer is to pay a little extra and go to the best school you can. Odds are, as a vet it won't be as expensive as you think. Think of it this way: there are civilians who value the school enough to pay sticker price. Are you going to balk paying a fraction of that?
While this is certainly true for those eligible for 100% of the GI Bill, there are a lot of military candidates looking to get out of the military once their initial commitment is up. If they are ROTC Scholarship or Service Academy grads then they are likely only eligible for 40-50% of the GI Bill, if anything at all. That works out as a nice chunk at a public school, but at a private one it's only about 10-20k per year (still nothing to scoff at of course).
Would like to hear more on this topic as well. I am a recently separated vet who's in an MFE (public school). I was enlisted and now am 100% eligible for post 9/11. The pay has been decent if you have enough savings or are doing part-time jobs etc. Since I'll have some left-over of the G.I. Bill after the MFE, I've been thinking about MBA myself.
Don't go to school if you have a good gig lined up post MFE. Experience is far more important than another degree.
I am a vet as well and plan on getting my MBA, 2-3 years down the road and still have about 17-18 months left of my post 9/11.
There are some top 30 FT programs that offer 100% with the yellow ribbon and close to 100%. Off the top of my head, I know Cornell is extremely receptive towards vets, and as long as you get accepted you can attend Cornell free as a vet. Also I am pretty sure Duke covers about 90% with the yellow ribbon for vets.
Here is a link for 2014-2015 schools in NY participating in the Yellow Ribbon. Note that Cornell is still unlimited on the Yellow Ribbon. If you want other states just go back a page to take a look.
http://www.benefits.va.gov/gibill/yellow_ribbon/2014/states/ny.asp
Here's a link to Johnson School of Business (Cornell's) veteran outreach.
https://www.johnson.cornell.edu/About/Veterans-at-Johnson
Also, assuming that you served minimum of 36 months active duty, or you wouldn't be eligible for the Yellow Ribbon program.
Beast Mode, thanks for sharing the information. I wish I had this kind of information when I was searching for grad school programs. My program's curriculum is very advanced and quality of teaching is outstanding. However the brand name is not there. Thus the thought from time to time to rebrand by getting some Ivy on the resume.
Go at full price. It never makes sense to delay just for the sake of the GI Bill. If you wait a year you get 50% eligibility, this equates to at best $40k over the two years you are in school. In turn you delay your career change by an extra year, you earn $50k-$60k in the military while forgoing a year of post MBA employment making $120k-$200k. Not to mention there is no guarantee you will be re-admitted a year later given that schools don't allow deferring unless you get a non-vol 365 deployment.
That reasoning definitely makes sense. It's just tough to swallow that debt though.
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