UChicago for ibanking
How does UChicago (undergrad, economics major) compare with schools such as Duke and Cornell for job placement on the Street? I'm a high school senior hoping to get into HYP, but I don't think it's likely. However, I was accepted to UChicago and have a relatively decent shot at Cornell/Duke. So could anyone give me some feedback on UChicago/Cornell/Duke's recruiting? Keep in mind UChicago has been on the rise lately (this year it's tied for spot #5 this year with Stanford, MIT, Caltech, UPenn, rankings by USNEWS) but I don't know if that will influence recruitment.
Cornell AEM > Duke = UChicago
Duke = UChicago > Cornell CAS
At UChicago, do the Careers in Business - Financial Markets program, and you should be good to go. https://caps.uchicago.edu/cci/ccib_overview.shtml
Congrats btw.
Cornell > > > >
if you get into Duke, go there. Don't go to U chicago, unless you have other good options. Hyde Park is one of the scariest and most depressing places I've ever been to in my life, and it must suck to spend 4 years of your life there. Also, i hear social life there sucks, too.
Duke has top notch OCR, nice weather, and sick sports. A fun school to attend and you can't really go wrong with Duke.
I can't say what U Chicago recruiting is exactly like, but I do know few kids from Northwestern who were shit out of luck with IBD recruiting, despite having high GPA. I'd assume most of recruiting that NU or U chicago get are banks in Chicago, and Chicago banks have tiny analyst classes. So, I think it must be tough as shit to land an IB job out of U chicago.
Duke and Cornell get heavy recruiting from IB in NYC.... But I think Duke >>> Cornell for OCR. The problem with Cornell is there are just way too many kids... and you are competing against something like 300 other kids to land first round interviews...
Much misinformation... I went to UChicago, so PM if you have any other specific questions. First off, congrats on your admission.
Let's address the job placement issue first. UChicago places pretty well into both NYC and Chicago, and also has OCR for other satellite locations as well (for example, SF/LA/Houston, though obviously not as strong). There's also Asia Pacific recruiting through OCR as well. From NYC, all the BB's and some elite boutiques (LAZ/GHL/BX) recruit here and I have friends going to all of them, mostly in IBD but some S&T and ER as well. Recruiting also obviously exists for Chicago locations as well, and you can throw in some of the MM banks as well, such as Blair/Baird. In addition, one of the things nice about Chicago is the fact that it is a big city; you don't have to rely on summer internships for experience as a lot of gunners will do school year internships at ibanks/prop shops downtown.
As far as social life goes, it's definitely much nerdier than most schools, but that's not to say that you can't have a good time. If you applied here then you probably know the school's reputation, and you can decide for yourself if you like it when you do the admit weekend visits. Personally, I've visited friends at large state schools, and while an odd weekend is fun, I don't know if I'd be able to take that kind of atmosphere for 4 years. Hyde Park does suck for nightlife (which will consist of mostly frat parties, apt parties, and the local dive bar, Jimmy's), but there's always the option of going downtown/Lincoln Park/Wrigleyville.
For campus organizations, there's CCIB as seedy underbelly mentioned, and also Blue Chips, which is the campus investment club. There's probably more, but these are the bigger/prominent organizations. Note that you don't necessarily need to be in either one in order to get an offer; my roomie went to a BB in NYC and he was in neither.
I didn't go to Cornell or Duke or any other schools, so I can't say anything for those guys.
One last thing, don't forget to take into consideration the fact that your interests and career goals can and will change throughout college. A lot can happen in 4 years, not only to yourself but also to the markets and the state of finance as a first step into a career.
Where do you go to school? I am honestly curious. I to went to UChicago and there is heavy recruiting from nearly every major firm. Dozens upon dozens of my friends are now in IB or S&T at banks (mostly NYC and Asia-Pacific actually, only handful in Chicago), are in the elite prop shops/HFs (GETCO, Jump, DE Shaw, ESL, etc. out of undergrad), at Google/Facebook/Amazon/etc., and more. I am absolutely baffled by your comments. Just do a Linkedin search and you will find hundreds of people 1-3 years out of college working as analysts at various BBs and boutiques.
It certainly doesn't have the IB recruitment that UPenn/Harvard/maybe1-2 other schools?, but it is on par with really anybody else. If the interest is S&T or trading at a prop shop / HF, there are only a few other schools that compete.
I go to low ivy
even if u chicago has same caliber of OCR as Duke, why should anyone go to U Chicago over Duke? Duke has arguably better ocr, and even if ocr is same level at both schools, Duke is much more social, well rounded, and fun school to be at.
College isn't just about academics and getting a job in the end. it's also about making many friends, partying, going to football and basketball games, girls, weather, peer pong, frat parties, etc. In that respect, Duke is awesome.
I have over a dozen friends at northwestern, but i don't know anyone at U chicago. So, while I can't say how things are at U Chicago for sure, i hear from my northwestern buddies that only around dozen kids at NU get offers as SA for IBD. Their major complaint seem to be that Northwestern gets most of their recruiting from IB in Chicago office, and analyst classes in Chicago office are tiny and banks hire like 1-2 analysts per year... so that obviously means that not too many will end up with offer. While u chicago and Northwestern are different schools, i figure job prospects for these two can't be too different.
and dude, I know a lot of kids from even U Wisconsin, U Indiana, and UIUC who are working in prop trading, research, and other areas of finance. does that mean these schools are top targets?? does that mean these schools are better route into IBD than Duke or Cornell? I don't think so
A guy I know transferred out of Chicago to Penn CAS. Chicago is a special place for only a certain type of kid, like every other school. Personally, if I had to choose it would be Duke, as the weather, girls, social life, and quality of life are arguably better.
Visit and see what you think, don't go to a school JUST for its recruiting possibilities (especially with Cornell / Duke / Chicago being on relatively the same level).
Uchicago is solid, and a target for many groups.
You are a freshmen at Columbia, yet happen to know all about OCR and recruiting at all schools. Let's get real, kid. I have a friend at Northwestern with 3.7 GPA who landed ONE IBD first round interview for SA. Chicago BB analyst classes are tiny as fuck, and very few offers to go around.
Not quite sure why you guys are arguing so much. Just know that the OCR at Duke is extremely comparable to that of UChicago and they regularly send a large number of kids to all the large cities (NY/HK/SF/...) every year. In terms of which is better for recruiting, it's a push.
I personally would argue that Duke is more attractive because of its student life, sports, and nightlife (if you include Chapel Hill). But it is really just based on your preferences and what you want to get out of college besides a job.
First off, thanks for the responses everyone.
Second, is it fine to conclude that all three schools are generally on par with each other and that I should just attend either Duke/Cornell/UChicago based on whichever atmosphere I like most? From the arguments in these responses, it seems that the differences among these three schools are not that big to warrant choosing one school over the other (please correct me if I'm wrong...)
Any of those three schools provide good OCR.
And whenever someone says "Oh ya I know 5 people with 4.0s who got BB offers here, these guys got rejected there...etc etc", take their comment with a grain of salt. They probably just made it up to affirm their own opinions.
^ Um, no. I met them at a conference in NYC in November. You all are free to believe what you like, however.
Of all those schools, Cornell (AEM only) is by far the best for recruiting.
Your speculation that Cornell AEM outperforms Cornell CAS or other schools (such as Duke) is completely wrong.
IB recruiters recruit school-wide at Cornell and don't give any advantage for being an AEM major. Only reason why more AEM kids end up in IB jobs than other majors at Cornell is because of two reasons: 1) more AEM kids are gunning for IBD, 2) AEM is one of the easiest majors on campus, hence, more AEM kids have high GPA, and having high GPA is important for IBD recruiting.
Given that a liberal arts kid at Cornell has comparable resume and gpa as an AEM kid, they both are on equal ground for landing interviews.
Yep. AEM is an easy major, yet it has more finance/accounting, all of which leads to superior placement for AEM kids.
no matter what college you end up at, you will need 3.6+ GPA, have finance-related internships, network heavily, and nail the interviews to get SA IBD offers.
If you have what it takes, it doesn't matter where you go to college out of the options on your list.
It would be helpful if you go somewhere that has grade inflation, fun social life, and top OCR. Duke has all of that, while U Chicago is known for grade deflation and shitty social life.
Keep in mind U Chicago is a very tough school to excel, at least it has a rep as a very difficult and fast-paced school. (it's on quarter system, not semester)
Cornell is ok. I go to Cornell and I am econ major. There are a lot of easy classes here for electives. You just need to be smart with what courses you take, in order to protect your GPA. One bad thing about Cornell is, as I pointed out before, is that there are WAY too many kids at Cornell gunning for IBD/ top consulting. Cornell is a large school and there is, accordingly, heavier competition for landing interviews on campus.
All that said, I think Duke is the clear winner here on your list. Unless you get into Harvard, Yale, or Wharton, Duke may be the best option after that. (in terms of both OCR and social life)
This is a fact. 10 week quarters are fast. no 1st week to settle in, read the syllabus, etc. You show up on day 1 prepared, homework in hand. I'll tell you this - I went to Michigan for undergrad, which is (I'd say) comparable to Duke in terms of academic rigor, prestige, placement, etc. I found UChicago to be a LOT more intense. I think getting a 3.8 at Michigan (and, presumably Duke) is easier than getting a 3.8 at UChicago.
Uh what? The average ACT for Michigan students is like 27-31 and the average ACT for Duke is like 31-34. The academic rigor of Michigan is in no way comparable to Chicago or Duke. Most students at both these private schools would have been setting the curve in Michigan econ, math and political science classes. Why in the world would you assume it's as easy to get a 3.8 at Duke as Michigan? The former has mostly high school valedictorians and the latter will be filled with in-staters from bumfuck Michigan high schools who couldn't crack a 30 on the ACT especially in LS&A.
Contrary to what people think about grade deflation at Chicago, U of C is fairly grade inflated overall and it's grading scheme has improved in the favor of students in the past decade but at both Duke and U of C the Economics classes (especially the Core ones) are going to be brutal.
I would advise the OP to not come to Duke if he thinks he is going to breeze by. It's a very difficult school. The Econ majors I know who have a 3.8+ are literally some of the smartest people I've had the pleasure of doing problem sets with in my life.
^ Cornell Econ is crap.
Thanks, that doesn't contribute anything to the discussion.
It does because it's true.
Ivy recruiting:
Harvard/Penn-Wharton Princeton Yale/Columbia Penn-CAS/Cornell-AEM Dartmouth Brown Cornell CAS
SLE--Just stop posting dude. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and don't seem to even know people at either school or know very many people in finance. There are plenty of things to criticize about UChicago, yet you decide to go around WSO for God know's why and make up random BS about financial aid and now IB recruiting. The school is a strong target for every area of finance for nearly every single city, period. The only schools with objectively better all-around recruiting in finance are UPenn-Wharton/Harvard (perhaps throw in Princeton?) and the rest are really just a toss-up of which area of finance and then which region geographically you are targeting.
Now, as far as social life and quality of life concerns--I've met some people from WSO and, frankly, people here are as nerdy and socially lame as anybody I ever met at UChicago, so I don't understand the complaints coming from this particular population. You could certainly have more fun elsewhere, but Duke's girls aren't particularly attractive and Durham sucks balls and none of the Ivies have attractive girls either, but plenty of snobs (though you have that at UChicago as well).
I would say that a combination of the extremely harsh winters, grade deflation and overall academic hardship, and the poor neighborhood surrounding the school are extreme negatives of the school to a point that you shouldn't need to make-up random bullshit about financial aid and recruiting, which I find to be two of the stronger points of the school compared to peer institutions. If you're a solid D1 level athlete, the level of competition you get in D3 is also quite a bit less to the point it is unfun, so there is that point as well (the only relevant spectator school would be Duke basketball, otherwise the rest of the schools suck from a spectator's perspective anyway).
To be fair, UChicago finaid does suck.
That's the information I got though. I applied to U Chicago 4 years ago but didn't get any Fin aid. At Cornell, I got 15k a year then I appealed and they gave me 5k a year more. I had 2 more friends who turned down U Chicago for shitty Fin aid, as well.
Yet, this guy Jerome keeps busting that U Chicago Fin Aid is awesome and U Chicago Fin Aid is on par with Ivies' Fin Aid. That's news to me.
is there such a major at your school? at cornell, there is only econ major, no such thing as 'financial economics'.
http://www.college.columbia.edu/bulletin/depts/econ.php?tab=ugrad [scroll down]
http://www.college.columbia.edu/bulletin/depts/busc.php?tab=ugrad
One of Columbia's strengths is that, even as a liberal arts college, it really goes out of its way to make sure that its graduates aren't viewed as the typical liberal arts grads. You have history majors concentrating in computer science, Philosophy majors dual-degreeing in Operations Research, etc.
well, 'financial economics' is more or less an Econ major. It's the same shit, brah.
i wanna go to columbia for mba....or stern. i would love to go to business school in nyc.
Academically Uchicago kicks Cornell and Duke's ass
In terms of finance and economics, Uchicago kicks almost EVERYONE's ass (including HYP)
Chicago is the US' second largest financial hub
you do the maths...
academics... at undergrad level is more or less the same shit everywhere. who cares if U Chicago has more famous professors in Econ department? what matters is that the college you attend is fun, affordable, and gets good OCR.
anyone who chooses U Chicago over Duke thinking that it will give them advantages for job prospects is fucking retarded. have fun at Hyde Park for four years of your youth.
and, Chicago has tiny IB presence. Chicago is much more of a prop trading type of town. IB analyst classes at Chicago BB's are like in single digits each year. GS in Chicago don't even hire entry level analysts straight out of college. shops like Lazard Chicago hires like 1 person a year for IB analyst position. not too many offers to go around in chicago
Clearly there is more fun to be had in some small college town than in downtown Chicago........
On a serious note, there's life outside campus, and unless you went to ASU or Ole Miss or some shit like that, I can guarantee you I had a lot more fun/hotter girls going out in Chicago than you did at your frat parties...
And before anyone says anything, I went to Northwestern, so should in any case have a predisposition for downplaying UChicago
Wait, Lazard Chicago hires 1 analyst a year? Now we know you're just making stuff up. The year before me had 3 kids from UChicago alone. I knew 2 of them personally.
approximate numbers, bud. Lazard chicago hires 1-3 analysts per year. i got this info from Lazard interviewer.
also, i am strictly talking about IBD. not Lazard BO/MO
I am talking about IBD as well. Go on LinkedIn and do a search. You will without a doubt find more than a couple for each year. I even know some Northwestern folks that work there in IBD from the same year, so it was certainly more than 3. I never even saw them list BO or MO positions anywhere on our recruitment website.
Placement statistics from private school with regards to banking/consulting jobs aren't readily available but lets look at Poets & Quants feeder rankings.
http://poetsandquants.com/2011/08/15/top-feeder-colleges-to-harvard-bus… (Harvard) Duke: 23 Chicago: http://poetsandquants.com/2011/08/07/top-feeder-schools-to-whartons-mba… (Wharton) Duke: 17 Chicago: http://poetsandquants.com/2011/10/06/top-feeder-colleges-to-chicago-boo… (Chicago) Duke: 17 Chicago: 12
http://poetsandquants.com/2011/09/07/top-feeder-schools-to-columbia-bus… (Columbia) Duke: 20 Chicago: http://poetsandquants.com/2011/09/14/top-feeder-colleges-to-dartmouths-… Duke: 9 Chicago:
[quote=eldiablo4857]Placement statistics from private school with regards to banking/consulting jobs aren't readily available but lets look at Poets & Quants feeder rankings.
http://poetsandquants.com/2011/08/15/top-feeder-colleges-to-harvard-bus… (Harvard) Duke: 23 Chicago: http://poetsandquants.com/2011/08/07/top-feeder-schools-to-whartons-mba… (Wharton) Duke: 17 Chicago: http://poetsandquants.com/2011/10/06/top-feeder-colleges-to-chicago-boo… (Chicago) Duke: 17 Chicago: 12
http://poetsandquants.com/2011/09/07/top-feeder-schools-to-columbia-bus… (Columbia) Duke: 20 Chicago: http://poetsandquants.com/2011/09/14/top-feeder-colleges-to-dartmouths-… Duke: 9 Chicago:
[quote=eldiablo4857]Placement statistics from private school with regards to banking/consulting jobs aren't readily available but lets look at Poets & Quants feeder rankings.
http://poetsandquants.com/2011/08/15/top-feeder-colleges-to-harvard-bus… (Harvard) Duke: 23 Chicago: http://poetsandquants.com/2011/08/07/top-feeder-schools-to-whartons-mba… (Wharton) Duke: 17 Chicago: http://poetsandquants.com/2011/10/06/top-feeder-colleges-to-chicago-boo… (Chicago) Duke: 17 Chicago: 12
http://poetsandquants.com/2011/09/07/top-feeder-schools-to-columbia-bus… (Columbia) Duke: 20 Chicago: http://poetsandquants.com/2011/09/14/top-feeder-colleges-to-dartmouths-… Duke: 9 Chicago:
[quote=timatom90][quote=eldiablo4857]Placement statistics from private school with regards to banking/consulting jobs aren't readily available but lets look at Poets & Quants feeder rankings.
http://poetsandquants.com/2011/08/15/top-feeder-colleges-to-harvard-bus… (Harvard) Duke: 23 Chicago: consulting careers.
Purely academically speaking, they are comparable top 10 schools with a slight edge to Chicago.
Hey chuckle heads, only the University of Chicago can count two bank heads among its undergraduate alumni. Lazard and Credit Suisse are both headed up by grads of their undergrad program. They also have dozens of Vice Chairman, so anyone who thinks they have a weak network is a clown.
Duke OCR and recruiting is fucking sick and it's almost unreal.
It is a top feeder into MBB consulting, and only schools that place better into Bain or BCG than Duke are Harvard and Wharton.
At Cornell, MBB didn't even recruit at OCR. The best consulting firms that recruit at Cornell are firms like Deloitte S&O, Oliver, and Booz. Accenture didn't even recruit at Cornell last year. (what the fuck?) I am a Cornell senior and have access to OCR info. Just from this information, I feel safe to say Duke OCR >>> Cornell OCR.
Also, bear in mind that Cornell is a much larger school than Duke. Hence, more students are competing for that first round interview compared to Duke. All else equal, you are better off at Duke than Cornell.
However, at the end of the day, these schools are all at least close enough to each other in terms of academics and OCR. So, I would consider financial aid, location, weather, and social scene at each school to decide where to go. This is undergrad we're talking about. Social life and having fun are very important.
If we were talking about MBA, then Chicago Booth would fucking blow both Cornell and Duke's asses out of water.
^ Good god, you're an idiot. I was accepted to Duke. I visited its campus days. I went to their career services office. Do you know where the majority of Duke grads end up? The south (Atlanta, Charlotte, etc.). Most UChicago grads end up in Chicago. The top performers at each school, in equal numbers, end up in NYC. There is literally no difference in Duke and UChicago OCR.
Since you think Duke is SO GOOD--do you know how many Duke Econ grads ended up in BAC Charlotte? 21! That was enough of a reason for me to ditch that shit-hole in Durham (another shit-hole) for Columbia.
That said, again, Duke and UChicago are equivalent in recruiting. I think I'm the only one on this thread who actually got into both, actually visited both, and actually spoke to career services people at both schools, so STFU.
Edit: apologize for the error in number of BAC placements. Originally posted as 31.
I said Duke OCR is better than Cornell OCR. Duke gets recruiting from MBB, top boutique consulting, and many more. Of course, if you fuck up at Duke, you aren't working at GS IBD or MBB consulting. I said, ALL ELSE EQUAL, you are better off at Duke than at Cornell, you fucking retard.
You are a fucking tool. You keep mentioning how prestigious your school Columbia is in many threads and how low of an acceptance rate it boosts, while putting down other schools. Also, you claim to possess all the knowledge of how OCR works at each different school, when you are a huge toolish freshmen at Columbia who hasn't fucked a chick yet, nor has worked a real job before.
Sorry, pal. Chicks at bars don't get wet even if you drop "I go to Columbia" 100 times. No one gives shit. Let's get the fuck real, kid.
You're so misinformed it's almost ridiculous. I'm Duke'11 and I don't know anyone from my graduating class doing IBD at Bank of America Merrill Lynch in Charlotte. They all work in New York and so does pretty much everyone that graduates from Duke and goes to Wall Street. I know only like 5 classmates that are working for boutiques in IBD and they're all solid opportunities with great exit options (Sagent, McColl, Edgeview, BlackArch, etc.).
There are so few IBD opportunities in the South and in Chicago that what you're saying wouldn't even make logical sense.
Check out these LinkedIn profiles boss and tell me that I'm wrong.
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=53931869&locale=en_US&trk=tyah2 http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=36469368&locale=en_US&trk=tyah2 http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=112332958&locale=en_US&trk=tyah http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=79585810&locale=en_US&trk=tyah http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=56807829&locale=en_US&trk=tyah
Those were all hired in 2011. Get back at me when BAML, MS, UBS, Deutsche and Goldman take 5+ IBD analysts from Columbia like Duke. Oh yeah, they don't so you lose.
^ Columbia OCR sucks compared to Harvard, Stanford and Penn-Wharton. There.
I'm a realist. I actually chose among these schools just 7 months ago after much research. That's why I know who's recruited where. And that's why I can compare.
I apologize if I came off as a tool. I will stop posting now.
No. You aren't a realist. You have a lot of BS on your ass, kid.
Cornell senior here. I can confirm that consulting OCR sucks here, but our recruiting for banking is fairly strong. I also think that even though competition for first round interviews is heavy, standing out among 300 UGs isn't difficult. It only takes some networking beforehand.
Yeah, for some reason, Cornell is almost a non-target for consulting employers. This sucks.
The following is list of some big name consulting firms that did NOT recruit at Cornell this/ last year:
McKinsey Bain BCG Booz Monitor Parthenon IBM Towers Watson L.E.K. consulting Accenture Capgemini NERA
Apparently, Cornell isn't the best for consulting OCR. It gets OCR for I-banking, but very heavy competition for those jobs on-campus. I know several people with 3.6+ GPA who got less than 3 interviews on-campus, for banking or trading.
This is the reason why I say Duke OCR >> Cornell OCR. Duke gets more elite employers at its OCR and the number of competition on-campus is less than Cornell. (smaller student body)
It's amusing to see how clueless some people are on this forum, yet are so confident in their statements.
Seriously, this kid is arguing that Duke people end up with gigs in Charlotte?? Duke has arguably the best OCR in the nation outside of HYP and Wharton. My suspicion is that Duke OCR crushes U Chicago OCR. Besides, most of OCR at Duke for IB come from NYC. What a fucking joke.
:sigh:
Some serious irony happening in this post. you're amused by clueless posters, then in the next sentence have a "suspicion" about Duke crushing UChicago OCR? Even if you went to one or the other, suspicions don't go far in proving a point.
This entire thread is missing a-whole-nother issue: if you would be successful in IBD recruiting at UChicago, it's very likely that you'd be successful at Duke/Cornell as well. OCR at any of these schools isn't "better" than OCR at any of the others, except maybe marginally.
My argument is that UChicago offers more opportunities for non-summer internships; plenty of my friends in the past have stacked their schedules on T/TH so that they could work downtown at a prop shop or PE firm MWF during the school year. That kind of schedule isn't for everyone, but my argument is that at least the opportunity exists because Chicago is a money center, which can't be said of Durham/Ithaca.
Enjoy college life, enjoy the nations best intercollegiate football and get a good education...go to Vanderbilt
^ UChicago is renowned for grade deflation.
Also don't assume from what I posted before that b-schools like Ross or Kelley or whatever would be a better choice because it would be easier to get a higher GPA there than Duke of Chicago. You can get banking from Duke with a 3.5-3.6+ and S&T with a 3.3 GPA in Economics while my friend at Michigan tells me that you need a 3.9 at Ross to even be considered for BB IBD since the grade inflation is so rampant there (an A+ is a 4.3).
Banks and consulting firms know the grading scales at different schools since they have alumni from basically every institution. Can't say the same about those bastard law schools however who would take a 3.9 Sociology major from ASU over a 3.6 Physics student at Princeton or MIT.
1) by banking at duke with a 3.5-3.6+ do you mean BB? Because you used a 3.9 at Michigan for BB but didn't mention it with Duke... also, you definitely don't need a 3.9
2) Yes, U of M has a lower average ACT score, but Ross and the CoE take the top kids, so the kids that could barely make it in Michigan in the first place are probably not taking the same classes as the Ross kids and engineers
3) Just trying to straighten things out
4) Are law schools really like that? Everything I've been hearing has said that they are, but it seems so stupid.
Yeah, a 3.5 is generally the cutoff at the top private schools if you major in something quantitative like Economics to get an IBD job at a Bulge Bracket bank. If you major in History, then you should be aiming for a 3.7+ which still isn't too bad. My friend said you need at least a 3.8 at Ross if not a 3.9 since the classes are curved easily but there are obviously exceptions.
You're right, Ross and CoE students are closer to being Chicago caliber students. I just wanted to make it clear that Economics classes at UMich which are filled with Ross rejects and in-state bumpkins would probably fail out of schools like Chicago or Duke.
No problem
Yeah, law school admissions are whack.
I know one kid with 3.6 GPA at U Michigan Ross who got 3 offers from BB IBD, as well as 1 of MBB consulting. He started out as an Econ major in liberal arts, then transferred into Ross as an internal transfer beginning his sophomore year. He told me that as long as you have 3.5+ gpa in liberal arts at U Mich, getting into Ross isn't hard.
U Michigan Ross OCR is pretty awesome, and as long as you have 3.5+ GPA, you can do very well. Plus, social scene at U Mich is top notch and there are tons of hot girls on campus.
Only problem with U Michigan is out of state tuition is fucking insane and they don't hand out Fin aid much at all.
Also, I hear that U Michigan has a lot of grade inflation in humanities/ business classes. (not engineering) So, it's a more fun/ easier school to attend than U of Chicago.
I don't think JPM/MS/Goldman really hire that much out of Ross. My senior friend there says there are 2 that got IBD jobs at Goldman, 1 got IBD at MS and nobody got JP Morgan for banking after graduation. I've heard that RBS and UBS like Michigan a lot though.
This kid at U Mich Ross I know went to my high school. He got offers from Deutsche IBD, UBS IBD, and some other bank... not sure which one. He told me DB, CS, UBS, and many consulting firms recruit heavily at Ross. not sure about GS or JPM.
I think Michigan Ross and Cornell are about equal for banking OCR, but Ross is better for consulting OCR. They get more consulting firms at OCR.
do you have to take all those hard econ classes at u chicago? at cornell, we are required to take only 8 classes for econ major, and we can cherry pick easiest classes among econ course offerings and avoid painful classes like game theory, etc.
i got destroyed in econometrics... but it was mainly because i didn't turn in one of my assignments on time. my TA was a fucking bitch and she didn't give me any credit for my work even if it was turned in just one day late
the problem with econ major is that all courses are curved harshly. content wise, it't not hard, but grading is pretty rough. hard to pull A's in upper level econ.
UChicago econ major is 13 classes; 9 required, 4 electives (but remember UChicago is on quarters.) Every metrics instructor tells the same story about some kid who failed metrics twice and U of C, then took it over the summer at NW and got an A, but that's probably just made up. I don't know how hard econ is at other schools, but I thought it was pretty difficult at U of C.
Also, you really can't expect to get credit for assignments turned in late...
That sucks man. at cornell we only have 3 required courses (econometrics, intermediate micro + macro) and the rest of 5 courses are electives in econ department.
I thought overall, econ major was pretty easy because cornell econ department is lax and gives very flexible schedule and lots of electives to choose from. for one of the Econ classes last semester, i only went to class once entire semester and still got an A-, which isn't bad at all.
what do you mean by metrics course? do u mean econometrics?
Pre-med kids at Northwestern who failed organic chemistry ALL did harvard summer school and got an A. Summer school is a joke EVERYWHERE and is def not a yardstick by which to measure the rigor of a schools curriculum
One thing's for sure. Chicago has better recruiting for prop trading, most of which is based in Chicago. For IBD, you can't go wrong either way. I think it boils down to visiting both schools and deciding which school you like more.
http://www.janestreet.com/apply/calendar.php
Then again, I don't see Harvard or Stanford either so who knows what they're smoking.
At any rate, all the Chicago Prop Shops recruit at Duke too. I know DRW, Wolverine Trading and Belvedere do at least. I know people who have gotten jobs at Susquehanna, Jane Street, DC Energy, etc. etc.
Chicago is one of the greatest institutions in the world. The Econ major + people I met at the University changed my life and shot me on an upward trajectory that I never imagined out of high school. I can not believe IBD is a concern for you in deciding college though. Take a step back bro, seriously.
You will not, I guarantee you, get a better education or rigorous academic experience at any institution than U of C. Opportunities will be better at HYPS but U of C is still a target for all firms. U of C has a tight group of alums that are senior members of BBs and they take care of you and the school. Certainly not as many as HYPS, but a material amount that makes recruiting and placement at U of C very, very good.
Not to continue the hating on SLE but he spouted a lot of misinformation about investment banking in Chicago. Feel free to use the search function as there are a few threads that will agree with what I'm about to say and I know from personal experience that these facts are true. I'm sure the OP wants to know more so about NYC but there are also opportunities in Chicago. At the bulge bracket level, the only worry is whether your Chicago office is actually full execution.
But in terms of analyst classes, Lazard for instance is definitely more than 2 per year. I think they had 8-9 summer analysts last year. They need analysts for both their corporate finance and restructuring groups. Also, Goldman Sachs does recruit for summer analysts. The analyst classes are in the 6-10 range for most bulge brackets in Chicago (DB, CS, BAML, UBS, JPM). I'm not sure of the sizes of Barclays, GS, and MS but I'm sure they are in the single digits. Greenhill is the only bank looking for 1-2 summer analysts. At the middle market level, firms such as William Blair and Baird are looking to hire approximately 20 full time analysts each and BMO is looking to hire the same as they are starting to try to push into bulge bracket sized deals. I would say that just from those banks alone there a decent amount of opportunities to do investment banking in Chicago.
my Lazard interviewer said they aim to hire 2-3 analysts per year for chicago office, but maybe he was only talking about restructuring team. regardless, as you mentioned, most chicago banks hire analysts in single digits, which means that there are very limited spots relative to the size of competition.
you have UIUC, Northwestern, U Chicago, Notre Dame, Indiana, Michigan, Depaul, Loyola, Wisconsin, and some other schools competing for those few slots. chicago IBD recruiting is freaking brutal.
Summer school @ UC is pretty damn tough actually....
The grade deflation is a bit masked, but I don't think it helps. You can pick the 'right' courses for some of the core classes and get A or A- average or something to bring up your GPA, but even that is quite tough. Econ is not only hard, but if you are unlucky in which professor you get, you could be in for a world of pain when it comes to grading if there is less leniency in the grading/curve and there are some savant types in your course.
If you go, just make sure you read the course evaluations to know what you're in for--some instructors have just weird expectations and guidelines. I had a pretty shitty hume professor 1 quarter that didn't give any A or A- to a single person in the course to 'make a point' that things don't get handed to you at UC. It was a very stimulating course, but left a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths. Things are changing though because the administration realizes that GPAs matter for recruitment and grad school, regardless of what some old professor thinks.
is econ at u chicago really that hard? is it hard to get 3.5+ gpa in econ? I would guess, then, math at U chicago must be near impossible.
at cornell, econ is more or less a joke of a major. i study less than 1/10 th of engineering kids, and still end up with better gpa.
Most of the people I knew that majored in math, including one of my roommates all through college and a couple of my best friends, ended up being fine (3.3-3.6) in their majors. In econ, I knew MANY people who barely got a 3.0 in their majors and that is only after getting As in each elective. It is quite difficult and there is very little mercy. I remember the range (out of 100) on one of the midterms I took was 12-100 with the median being a 60 and the average right around there was well. I think 50-70 (made up a huge % of people) got you a C, and the final ended up being nearly the same. So yeah, in a major where most people are quite smart and give a fuck (clearly some exceptions), most of the students received a C or worse. Doesn't help the GPA too much.
I don't say that to scare anybody off. Certainly, I don't think the reason you go to college is to focus on GPA and it is refreshing to know that top grades truly are earned. That doesn't necessarily make it less humbling when you get your ass kicked at some point.
rofl, didn't mean to start a pissing contest between Duke and Michigan. It may be the case that Duke has the edge of Michigan academics. I've just formed that impression over my years of working with people from pretty much every top institution. I guess it always comes back to opinion, but my experience is that the caliber of UChicago talent is the same as HYPS, MIT, Penn. Duke isn't in that group, and IMO is closer to the Michigan talent than the latter. But whatever, opinions are like assholes as they say.
"The University of Chicago Department of Economics has fielded more Nobel Prize laureates and John Bates Clark medalists in economics than any other university." - straight from the website, all I have to say.
P.S. Milton Friedman
I don't think people need to be reminded about how amazing UChicago's econ department is, if they doubt it, they can gtfo
If you're passionate about economics, I couldn't imagine a better opportunity than to study it at UChicago unless you're as unhealthily obsessed with prestige as some people (even then, the prestige of HYP isn't really that much higher imo). I got mad respect for UChicago
what gpa at uchic econ is respectable? 3.0?
One thing to note is that you don't necessarily have to be Econ at UChicago to have a shot at IBD (although it certainly can't hurt). From the class below mine, there are a couple PoliSci majors who landed BB IBD jobs, but they did a lot of networking and had taken numerous courses at Booth.
Even if you are an Econ major at U Chicago (even Harvard), if you have a 3.0 GPA you are fucked for recruiting. Most of times, the bare minimum gpa that banks or consulting firms require are 3.5 GPA....
if you have a 3.0 gpa as a CS or electrical engineering major at a top program, you could still end up with a good job. as an econ major?? dude, you are hosed.
I know one guy from my high school who graduated from Princeton last year, with 2.9 gpa in Econ. He's been unemployed for a year now. last time I heard from him, he told me he might go to law school because the best job offer he could get at the moment was like retail or insurance sales type of jobs.....
bottom line - low gpa + econ or humanities degree = very high chance of getting fucked after graduation.
I'm a freshmen so I only have one quarter behind me, but based on my initial experience the difficulty of getting a good grade at UChicago is being exaggerated here. Last quarter I took the accelerated econ with Prof. Lima and while the tests are extremely difficult, there is obviously a huge curve - average on the midterm was 36/100.
Your success in econ here will be entirely dependent on how good you are at math, specifically computational calculus. Essentially the main econ sequence here is an appleid calculus course. But if you're great at math, the ideas in these courses are not too difficult.
If you're going to do math here, it's the exact opposite - basically no computation, all ideas and highly conceptual.
Sub 3.5 is probably an understatement. There are a few that maybe even timatom knew in his day that didn't get a 3 before the decimal. Many under a 3.5. That certainly doesn't make the path easier by any means, but it most definitely can be done.
There are also a lot of people who get high GPAs, do clubs and other stuff, and get few interviews and offers.
Thanks guys, your responses have been really helpful. I will definitely think this over, but as of now I am leaning toward Chicago/Cornell (depending on how the college tours come out).
**Didn't realize the topic was a couple of months old
UChicago for I-Banking (Originally Posted: 11/23/2007)
Hi everyone. I'm currently a freshman at UT-Austin, and I'm in engineering. This year, I've joined a lot of the finance and investment clubs on campus, and I think that this is something I want to pursue beyond college. I know that recruiting here in Austin is much more scarce, compared to top schools in the northeast.
Therefore, I'm planning on applying to transfer to schools like UPenn, Harvard, and Columbia. I would plan on majoring in applied math and economics (unless I went to Wharton, of course), and I was wondering how good UChicago is for recruiting and job placement in BB firms. It has very good rankings in both math and econ (at par, or even slightly above Harvard), but I don't know how BB firms view it for recruitment. How good is it's pull for S&T or for trying to (chances low as they may be) break into a hedge fund out of undergrad? I love working with numbers, and I find the field of finance in general quite interesting, but I don't know which direction I want to go yet. Does anyone have any experience with this school?
Thanks for all your input! It is much appreciated!
I think recruiting and placement is strong at UChicago, as it is at any very highly regarded private school. Keep in mind that if you go to a top school, you don't need to major in math and econ to get a job in finance - only do that if you want to, but continue to "show your interest" in finance through your internships and ECs. Getting into a hedge fund out of undergrad isn't impossible - I go to a top LAC (ie, we're a very small school) and I know a few kids who have done it (the issue is, what kind [strategies] of funds, and what size of funds, are taking undergrads, from which schools). On that note, I hope you'll also at least consider top LACs like Amherst and Williams, since a LAC may be more likely to take a gamble on you, and the alumni network is tight. PM me if you want to bounce more ideas around.
UTexas isn't the worst place to be if you want to land at a top bank... UChicago places better as do wharton and harvard.
Your main concern should be whether you are happy at Texas. You may regret transferring from a quality of life perspective, and job placement is never a guarantee.
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