Mod Note (Andy): Best of Eddie, this originally was posted on 11/29/12.
We. Are. So. Screwed.
It's no secret that the educational quality in the United States has been on the decline for well over a decade. But I had no idea exactly how far we've fallen in real terms. That is, until I read this Psychology Today piece about a recent survey of the math skills of college students in the US. And then I threw up in my mouth a little.
How bad is it?
In an interview one student was asked if he could think of a way to check whether 462+253 = 715. He smartly subtracted 253 from 715 and came out with 462. So far so good. But when he was asked whether he could have subtracted 462 from 715 instead, he said he did not think so. He had been told in school to subtract the second number from the bigger number, not the first. It appears he was just following a memorized script.
It gets worse:
Students were shown a number line from -2 to 2 and asked to draw a line marking the approximate location of two numbers: -0.7 and 13/8. Percentage who answered correctly: 21%.
And this gem:
Students were asked which is greater, a/5 or a/8. Fifty percent would answer correctly if they just guessed. Percentage who answered correctly: 53%.
Are you shitting me? The demographic of the population which probably consumes more pizza per capita than any other can't even do the math when divvying up the slices? Unreal.
And these kids are in college. Yes, yes, I know, junior college. But still, c'mon.
I think this speaks to a much larger problem that is only going to get worse as the quality of education declines in near lockstep with the increased access to it. In my view, if you can read but you can't puzzle out addition and subtraction, you're still functionally illiterate. How is it that degrees are being awarded to these people? How the hell did they get into college in the first place?
We are looking at a very scary future if we as a country delude ourselves into believing that we're competitive with rival industrialized nations from an educational standpoint. It is going to be a very rude awakening for a lot of people when the music stops.
And what about the next generation of Americans, the ones whose parents were included in this survey's results? How will they ever be taught the value and necessity of mathematics in daily life when their parents obviously found no utility in it?
Maybe I'm just being a hater. I mean, everybody's got a calculator on their computer today. But am I way off base here? Is it too much to expect American college students to understand basic mathematical functions? Seriously, have none of these people ever pulled a quarter out of their pocket and wondered for even a moment why it's called a quarter?
I'll leave you with the following scene from a very funny movie (
) which demonstrates the disastrous consequences a lack of math skills can produce:So what do you think guys? Am I just being an alarmist here? Or is this reason #539 why the US is circling the drain?
what can you say? most kids are dumb but they're too dumb to admit it.
I agree OP, too many idiots around these days. Liberal arts majors taking the most basic math courses available (remedial; aka what you should have learned in high school) and too many kids fixated on GPA vs. actually being an intelligent person. This isn't just about junior college or disadvantaged kids though, loads of banker/finance types I've spoken to sound completely retarded as well. Obviously smart and dumb people in every field/position in life.
This being said tbh it isn't really that much better in other countries. Middle class people and higher in the U.S. I believe are still top 5 in the world in terms of math/science education. Poorer people in the U.S. don't perform as well as poorer people in finland, south korea, etc and I believe place like 40th in math/science but a lot of countries have much better public schools than we do (not in terms of cost - in terms of teacher competence and student willingness to learn) that encourage kids to pursue math/science instead of weed them out/discourage them by grading so harshly and not helping them to improve on their abilities.
Not off base man. This shit is fucking pathetic.
Not surprising. Women are inherently bad at math, so there's 50% out of the equation.
Who the hell is red-arrowing this man, you bunch of sycophantic brainwashed manpussies?
Also, Eddie, you're quoting an article about a study for remedial math in community colleges. To imply this is indicative of even the majority of US students is bullshit, and to imply these cutsey anecdotes are systematic proof of an entire country circling the drain is also absurd. The study didn't even compare this non-standard math test to foreigners.
For a 50 year old, you wouldn't think a remedial course in critical reasoning would be necessary.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hrm-rPSCIBw
Either way, this forum's demographic can't come to terms with the fact that 99% of people are idiots, and just because you know an Asian girl at Princeton studying astrophysics, engineering, and math doesn't mean all the sudden women are on the same level of STEM majors as men. I'm afraid to see what the majority of women are studying at non target schools, especially the lower-tier ones.
Actually in #3 the answer cannot be determined. It depends on whether a is positive or negative.
ha, nice catch...I'm sure they said, "assuming a is a positive #"
Haha, am I the only one who interpreted what he typed as "a fifth" and "an eighth" ?? Didn't even consider that A was a variable there.
But yeah, though all the crap about the American public being borderline retard is completely true, it annoys the shit out of me because while that's pretty much accurate, our top 1% still shits on the rest of the world's. We're the masters of the intellectual fat tail
Yep - "If a is a positive whole number, which is greater: a/5 or a/8?". The article omitted that part. Interesting study to peruse http://pathways.carnegiefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/stigl….
But there also is some good news. In every interview that we have done so far, we have found that it is possible to coax the students into reasoning, first, by giving them permission to reason (instead of doing it the way they were taught), and second, by asking them questions that could be answered by reasoning. Furthermore, the students we are interviewing uniformly find the interview interesting, even after spending well over an hour with the interviewer thinking hard about fundamental mathematics concepts. This gives us further cause to believe that developmental math students might respond well to a reasonfocused mathematics class in which they are given opportunities to reason, and tools to support their reasoning.
Some faith in humanity restored?
Wasn't that the answer?
Math education for K-12 is a joke from what I have seen, it's being taught how to take a test. The first problem clearly demonstrates this. He knows how to get the correct answer and check for it (would get it right on a scantron) but he has no idea how or why it works. And it's not necessarily the teachers fault because how can you sway from teaching the test when that is going to be the biggest part of you keeping your job?
Again, who cares. If you want to take the hard way to solve the problem, then more power to you.
Disagree, the standards are fine it's the teachers job to get the student to learn. If they can't accomplish this then don't go into teaching!
I kind of care. The dude thinks a -b = c is not the same thing as a - c = b. He can memorize a couple steps and get an answer but he can't manipulate a few variables or even reason out that they'd be the same? That's a problem. Computer power is not what we need it's problem solving.
So, what. Also the statement
' Students were asked which is greater, a/5 or a/8. Fifty percent would answer correctly if they just guessed. Percentage who answered correctly: 53%.'
Is mathematically wrong.
I think you're being a bit alarmist here. We've always sucked at math. And sucked hard. Also, it's not like having those extra addition skills would help out at some bar tending job or selling jeans at the Gap. Frankly, every day that goes by without some idiot drowning while taking a shower I consider a great success.
Terrible. When I screw up at work, I worry that I'm secretly a moron. How could I used the average common sharecount instead of the average diluted sharecount? But then I remember just how bad "average" is.
I think the quality of US human capital is deteriorating, but I don't think the cause is primarily found within the classroom. Parents used to take time to teach their children, filling in the gaps. I don't think this is common anymore. I hate to sound like a social conservative, but I think the decline of the family unit has resulted in a decline in educational outcomes.
I think that the "necessity" of a college degree is another problem. I hate to say it, but I learned very little of value in college. I would probably be a better employee if I had started work straight from high school. I wish we could roll back this new education obsession, but it now seems like we are in an arms race.
Yes it's a teacher's job to teach the students, but it's also a student's job to actually try and learn. And the parents job to send their kids with some basic social/academic skills before they even set foot in a public school. If you don't take notes, don't pay attention, never come for extra help, screw around with other people around you, etc... what exactly is the teacher supposed to do? They can't hit a kid for reinforcement, and you can only fail a certain amount. Hands are tied my friend.
Hard to teach/motivate a kid that hasn't given a shit in years. If you had a client that was cursing you out, listening to nothing you said, and trying their hardest to get away because they felt FORCED to be there, would the blame for the failed deal be on you or them?
The fact that you nerds thought for a moment that the "a" in a/5 or a/8 could be a positive or negative algebraic expression and not that the author simply meant "a fifth or an eighth" proves that the results of this study don't correlate to the Wall Street crowd. Your parents must be so proud.
Yesssssss I AM MAIN STREET
Having done my pre-university education abroad, I think it boils down to practice.
I can confidently tell you that the educational system where I grew up graded significantly harsher and didn't teach math in any more an intuitive way.
What it did do better, though, was drill the concepts in through sheer quantity of practice. Most human learning, neurologically, is a form of reinforcement learning (aided by some supervised learning a.k.a. classes and lessons). Humans are wired to avoid mistakes by making them (there's a reason why they say Failure is the stepping stone to success). Language, for example, so intuitive and easy because we've been practicing [and correcting mistakes] since age 1. I interview undergraduate applicants for my alma mater, and I routinely find that students haven't practiced enough to become comfortable with math and science concepts; they know the rules, but aren't able to apply them when faced with a new problem (essentially, what you're seeing here).
That said, I also find that there are a lot more opportunities in the US for students motivated enough to seek them out proactively (or be forced to do so by pressurizing parents ... yes, I am looking at you). This begs the question: Why aren't a lot students seeking out these opportunities? A lot of you might get take offense with this, but I think it's because we coddle kids here too much. You don't think you can do algebra? No worries - try something else! A lot of kids don't have the emotional maturity to know what they're good at and not (I don't say all, because some kids are genuinely gifted at certain things and discover it early). So when they encounter this new domain (math) and feel uncomfortable, they just switch off and pursue the liberal arts. Now, I'm not saying we should run martinet style academies; on the contrary, we should ease them in at an earlier age. Stimulate the interest through simple problems (which they get right and then feel good about) and puzzles (that get them interested).
Taking an econometrics class right now, and even at my target most of my classmates are terrible at math. I thank my Tiger Mom everyday.
They suffer from mental regardation
Wow that was a fast edit, nice job
..
It seems to me that the country is becoming more stratified in outcomes. The kids coming out of college today that I have met, seem much more prepared than those that graduated with me about 15 years ago. However, I know this is far from a random sample. The average is falling even though the best students are doing better than ever.
Part of the problem is the anti-intellectualism found at most high schools and at most homes. For some reason, many people feel comfortable telling other people "I'm not that good at math". You don't really find that in virtually any other area of life. When was the last time you heard someone say "I'm not that good at reading" or equivalent? It doesn't happen. You can't even get most people to admit they are an average or below average driver.
This is a great point. It brings a hilarious Maddox article to mind:
http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=math
Isn't this more or less a product of micro-evolution? You now have families with 3 or 4 generations of college graduates, whereby each generation has strived to be "better off" than their parents. On the other hand, you have families (and entire areas of the country) which place no value on education, and this mindset is passed down and magnified on their offspring..It would make sense that the downstream output is polar opposites.
This is right. In the U.S. our average performance lags the rest of the industrialized nations, but we have a disproportionate number of high level and low level performers.
And Eddie, re: other sources of education, I suggest checking out the Khan Academy (online videos). Great article in Forbes about it and various other online learning avenues (Udacity, etc.) I think the sooner we drop this "everyone sits in a classroom and learns the same material at the same pace via lecture" method, the better off we'll all be.
but what if a is negative, maybe 47% were just very good readers.
I agree this is appalling, but junior college today is literally for kids who failed high school, its not that unexpected. The expectation now is that everyone goes to college, 20 (10?) years ago these people would not have had the option or need.
Don't disagree with the general statement.
Interestingly enough, however, one of the smartest people I know went to a CC. He then worked a desk job for 1 year during which he got interested in the sciences. Took a few courses in the extension school, and then applied for a 4-year degree and got admitted. He proceeded to graduate with top honors in a challenging STEM field, and is now a postdoc at arguably the most prestigious lab in his field.
this is what I'm thinking. granted I did go to a community college... nowadays everybody's so obsessed with going to college that the people that should be making french fries are going to community colleges because it's the thing to do
Agreed - too much BS enforcement of equality, whether it be in regards to income, education or owning a house. Laissez Faire ftw.
From where I come from - South East Asian country - waiters take your orders and calculate your bill right off their head regardless of how many dishes you ordered. Mind you these waiters have zero formal education.
Just go to the top Engineering, Math, Statistics, Comp Sci departments across the country (Caltech, Berkeley, MIT, Harvard, Stanford) and it's mostly international students. It was this influx of talent starting from WWII (Einstein for example) that has helped this country make long strides in tech and therefore the Economy. Take the incentive away from these kids spending half of their lives researching, you end up in a country with old money, bankers and the rest who're content with food stamps.
Sweeping generalizations with the 2nd half of that quote bro.
I mean of course you have the entrepreneurs, small business etc who actually create value, but you can't make perpetual economic progress with some sort of advancement in tech/research.
This is not a problem of teaching math or the quality of the educational system. It's not calculus - this is algebra in its simplest form. People should be able to add and substract once they have left elementary school. From then on it's simply a matter of practice
i'm sorry, but i call major selection bias here. this was a survey of COMMUNITY COLLEGE students. we have an increasing mentality of "everyone goes to college" in this country, so today's community college kids would have been yesterday's blue-collar workforce.
what the hell is "quality of education" anyways? you go to class, you pay attention, you do your assigned work or reading, and you learn something. some students have the combination of intelligence/diligence to be successful in this setting, while others do not.
if anything, this study shows how this nation is wasting resources trying to educate the wrong people. if these kids had been born in Mexico or China, you can bet your ass that they would not be attending some government-subsidized educational institution. heck, in these countries they wouldn't have made it passed the 8th grade.
^^^ also i am aware that i'm making a generalization about community college students. clearly not ALL of them were underachievers in high school, but probably most.
Just as an aside, guys, my kids' grammar school offers Kumon math as an after-school activity. Does anyone have any experience with Kumon math? Is it worthwhile? It looks like rote memorization to me, but what do I know? I'd love to hear from any of you who have done it and whether you think it'd be helpful for a 2nd and/or 4th grader (who both do pretty well in math, incidentally).
I teach HS so my perspective may not be entirely applicable, but I would say as much independent practice as possible is good. Check the curriculum for Kumon to see that it is filled with word problems. If the student can figure out how to solve word problems (especially complex ones) the simple math is easy. It's the critical thinking skills that you want them to master.
I did Kumon right through school and hated every minute of it. Having said that it put me way ahead of the other kids and made math at school very easy. By the time I got to the later stages of Kumon I was the only white kid in the class with a bunch of 60 year old Chinese women doing the supervision, they were shocked to see me there!
Do it. Math at that level is more about forming synapses. The fact that they are spending brain time on it is already developing their brains on a physical level. You won't learn differential geometry or stochastic differential equations through pure memorization, but it helps a lot of you have a brain that is literally physically formed for quantitative thinking. Same goes for violin, chess and other cognition-heavy activities. Doesn't matter if that are going to be Itzhak Perlman or Magnus Carlsen. It will help their brains develop in a general sense for the things that matter in a STEM-heavy future.
education on a national scale is a poor investment. Manual jobs don't require it and its cheaper to get another country to pay for it,and then import those that they need. It aint great for the american people, but since when have the corporations given a damn about that.
anyways... even though this is a survey of community college students (would love to know what area this community college is from).... if my son ends up this stupid, I've fucked up reallllll bad and should have my balls cut off (I trust you guys will make it happen). I know straight up morons that could answer those questions right.
Well I'm sure that as long as you don't marry your sister or close relative your kids should be fine
"Students were asked which is greater, a/5 or a/8. Fifty percent would answer correctly if they just guessed. Percentage who answered correctly: 53%."
Don't they mean: "The chance of answering correctly is 50% if the student just guessed."? :/
What the writer stated is wrong. Nate Kornell ... PhD eh... hmm
It's the same thing man, common. Yes, you version is slightly more true, but we have many students, so your version is actually wrong as it only accounts for one student. The writer assumes more than one student. So if they all guess, half of the total students get it correct, as each student has a 50% chance. So, half of all students get it correct.
So, what the writer is saying is not wrong. Out of 50 students, the expectation is 25, which is half.
Quod erat demonstrandum
Oh man. Just went to Maddox's site. Haven't been there in ages, didn't even know he still updated.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/81/Mean_SAT_Score_by_year.png
According to mean SAT scores math is up since the 80's, while reading has dropped about 30 points since 1972.
don't know about Kuman, but I can say one of the best things my parents did for me is make me memorize my multiplication tables early on. don't underestimate confidence...if they are good at something and get positive feedback early (ie math), they will take at least some pride/joy in it
Couldn't agree with this more. My parents forced me to jump a grade level ahead in math. The confidence that a kid in 2nd grade gains when he can hang with the 3rd graders is unmatched.
As far as Kumon goes, I worked at a center for about two years in high school as a math tutor. If you are hands on with your child and he or she will take it seriously, the lower levels are great ways to get better/ahead in math. However, anything past Algebra 1 is a waste of effort in my opinion. The content gets too specific and I do not really like how their curriculum presents some concepts.
Start them young. It's not hard, my parents made me go through math very early on.
On the topic of math skills in general, it's woefully apparent how bad certain segments of the population are in basic math skills, due to a combination of ignorance, never trying, or the "I'll just use a calculator" mindset.
I've tutored math at the community college level before, and it's just shocking how poor math aptitude and attitude is. Even those with the attitude to learn struggle. I've literally had tutees break down and cry during tutoring sessions due to not knowing how to do the problem.
Maybe its better at the upper tiers, but still...
these are the people voting for your presidents and constituents. not you, not me, we're just one small educated vote among a sea of retard, ignorant, self-entitled bandwagoners. i don't care for your party affiliation or religious beliefs, but i do care about the brain size. how many people do you think voted obama because he's "cool", "a brother", "follows sports", "not an old boring rich white snob"... - yeah, more people than you think.
sure these idiots are in junior college. do you honestly think "senior" college kids are any better? joke's on you. do you honestly think these a/5 and 0.7 senior college kids are any better? fuck no!
I do think OP brings up a very valid point. The US has been falling behind in education, particularly math and science. If the us wants to stay competitive, this problem needs to be addressed.
I'm a math major at a top 15 university, and I can tell you that nearly every student that comes in is woefully under-prepared for both the commitment and skills required for university level mathematics. Some problem sets in 300-400 level courses can easily take 10-20 hours. Even at a relatively good school like mine, many, many kids have no desire to do math, especially the American born kids. The Asian / Eastern European kids simply dominate the classes, although it is possible to do well if you put in a lot of effort.
The thing about college these days is that so many kids do stuff that doesn't really teach them anything. I was a political science major the first semester and a half of college and I didn't learn a tenth of what I'm learning now. It's so much easier to do a bunch of papers that are really just have-assed summaries of articles that you read the night before and get an A. A math course takes much, much more commitment and (I would argue) a higher level of intelligence. I do see a lot more females going into math / science though which is good.
The one problem I think is that there is almost 0 incentive to do math. I guarantee you my GPA in political science or some similar major would be .3-.4 higher than it is as a math major. Grades in STEM courses either need to inflate to match the liberal arts, or something else needs to be done. Spending all your week up late doing problem sets just sucks, and I think universities need to look at how to make STEM attractive to more students.
Agreed. And recruiters needs to get revisit how they 'screen' people. I was an econ major at a target and it was a walk in the park to get an A even in the higher level 'policy' based econ classes. Getting a similar grade in the more abstract econometrics classes or the math courses required a ton more effort. In the end however, a 3.9 still emanates 'I'm smart as hell' than a 3.3
I totally agree, I actually mentioned this in my post earlier. It's ridiculous that you have to get a 93 for an A in a math course while you can half ass in humanities and get 4.0s semester after semester. At my school, avg calc grade is a 1.7-2 Gpa and only 5% get As. This becomes 15-20% in 300 400 level courses and so it almost guarantees you a 2.4 major gpa if you're "middle of the pack." (avg math major gpa is like a 3.3ish though since quant kids are typically smarter and kill polysci type classes which helps a lot in bumping up the cum GPA.)
Anybody read Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers"? He does a good chapter on why asians are better at math. Here is an excerpt
http://www.gladwell.com/outliers/outliers_excerpt3.html
I'd argue the problem is not JUST the system in itself.
Honestly, I perceive the problem as idiot & crappy parents.
There will always be that "smart" kid in a crappy school that gets into a "prestigious" school or job at a later point in life. Up to a certain point all the kids in that crappy school have the same resources. The X-factor is the home environment.
Idiots will simply create more idiots. There just happens to be a lot more of them around in society.
P.S. Being well educated or wealthy doesn't make you a good parent before people pms on me.
I did it as a kid and at one point also did some tutoring / working for kumon after school. If anything, I'd say I didn't do it long enough, but it has set me up for a lifetime of being able to do quick basic math in my head that likely wouldn't have been possible otherwise. It really helps for doing back of envelope analysis in your head as well, ranging from calculating tips to valuing a potential business deal (in rough terms) and being able to generally BS around some numbers. I'd highly recommend it because later in life you want to focus on reasoning and critical thinking and being able to do quick math should just be 'natural', which Kumon accomplishes through constant re-inforcement.
PS: If anyone wants to improve their mental math capabilities and look much smarter than you really are during interviews, download the iPhone app Mathemagics.
As long as America keeps its gates open, all this does not matter. Let the public HS grads fail; who cares. You need someone to become janitors anyway.
America did not spend a dime on my HS education, and my 8th grade Maths wad harder than some courses that freshmen take here in college. Or the thousands like me who come here every year. As long as you let us stay, this country will do well.
Not sure if Asians/Hispanics will want to come here anymore if these educational trends continue
Agree, but if the same talent pool finds better opportunities elsewhere it wouldn't take them much time to change their minds. I reckon Europe after restructuring would be a great place to work - esp for HF/PE.
The college wage premium is just going to continue to go up along with income inequality if this trend continues.
Also I don't agree that there is 0 incentive to do math or to get a STEM degree because that gives people access to the highest paying careers right now. Compare the lifetime earning prospects of a Chemical or Computer Engineering major compared to a bullshit major like communications or humanities...
Sooo many humanities majors in PWM. There is zero incentive to major in math at least. The only science worth majoring in is bio for premed but there aren't great opportunities for physics/chemistry majors out there unless they get into finance. Engineering does give access to great jobs, but it's so much harder than comm/humanities that kids paying 10k a year to go to a nontarget school subsidized/with in state tuition that they would be happier with the 30-40K job doing something they enjoy then doing the boring engineering/IT job
Yes, because PWM is the sexiest sh*t out there. Of course the math majors at Citadel, Getco, Renaissance Tech and the like would give their left ball to be a PWM client service associate. I mean nothing sexier than talking to old rich geezers late night.
^yeah, but when it comes to getting jobs like investment banking or whatever, it's much easier to go for a humanities major and keep your gpa up than go for an engineering major and do the same... apparently the folks in IB don't care that a 3.3 in engineering is about the same as a 3.6/3.7 in humanities and just want a pretty number >= 3.5
There are a number of banks who don't give a crap about GPA, they care about school prestige and base your candidacy against others on usnews and world report and pay a bit of attention to networking. Elitist Bank MD's would take a 3.0 GPA kid from Harvard over a 4.0 from a semi target - - sans the number of open minded MD's out there that try to hire the best of the best regardless of background. Said MD's are usually at the very top shops, and are considered prestigious regardless. Notice how many elitist, waspy, country club MM PE shops there are with kids from all top ivy league schools who started off their careers at not so great places like Gleacher and Stifel Nicolaus (because in many cases BB's are much more open minded these days and have 1/3 or 1/4 of their class come from non targets who crowd out the mediocre target kids with sub 3 GPAs).
First don't blame the teachers they have so little freedom as to what and how they teach it is pathetic. Second this really shows that junior college is pathetic. Third the fraction question shows that the people who did this survey are idiots. Finally the real issue is the lowering of standards in this country. My favorite example is that they had to re-engineer the SATs because the average test score was too far below the historical average. Some of this is simply too much focus on college. Too many dummies going (or trying to go) to college because someone told them they should even though they have been led down a different path at in high school (nothing wrong with learning a trade, we can always use more auto mechanics). You want better students, you need 3 things. First better parents. There are too many parents who do not enforce the rules of school and respect for teachers. When parents dont treat school like it is important the kids certainly won't (like when a parent complains that 1 hour of homework a night is too much for a 4th grader). Second consistent benchmarks. It is not enough to be better than your peers, you need to be able to acheive what those before did. There is too much focus on what looks good and not enough on you need to learn this material in order to complete this grade or subject. Finally smaller classrooms. This is the big secret, now that there are more special education classes with small class sizes it makes it seem like the average class size is good. But what you have is a couple of classes with 6-12 students making it seem like the average class is 24 when it is closer to 30. The schools do this so they dont have to hire more teachers (and so the adminstrators can give themselves raises) and while it is techinically correct it is misleading and unfair to the teachers and students.
how is limit of 1/(2^n) as n approaches infinity 1? does it mean as n approaches 0?
There's a sigma in front of 1/(2^n) as n approaches infinity.
gotcha. i'm a bit rusty...
can we stop posting this malcolm gladwell shit? can we please stop it? even when asians (east and indian) come to the United States and learn in nothing but english they still kick everyone's asses in math. language differences explain nothing about math ability. gladwell is a total idiot and the reason for his commercial success is that there are bigger fucking idiots buying his books.
You'll get no argument from me that American public schools are awful in general (there are certainly amazing school districts), but I think you have here is a case of non-use. Like you said, everyone has access to calculators. Because people born in 1925 were taught some mathematical tricks that aren't widely used anymore because of calculators is not a big concern for me.
The SATs have gotten easier and we started using graphing calculators in the 1990s.
Not surprised at all, although I am not one for pointing fingers, the educational system is definitely underperforming.
I am in the process of reviewing math also, albeit no where near as bad as the %'s indicate on those quizzes. The startling fact is that many of the math classes you will learn in college (even calc III and above) cover math up until the 1800s, it is the math that comes after that period which is most impressive, and the one I am trying to learn.
In the words of GS elevator: "Most people should have a lower self-esteem"
I think this problem is compounded by the apparent anti-intellectualism that occurs in elementary/middle schools in the US. I remember virtually everyone scorned reading books, educating yourself, etc. pretty depressing stuff
This is what happens when you have schools teaching kids what to learn, instead of how to think.
This leads to kids memorizing, not learning.
"I'm just not good at math" or "I'm not a math person" are pathetic excuses from kids who are simply lazy. Being good at math is all about discipline. Especially at the very elementary level (e.g. high school algebra/trigonometry, Calc I - Calc III in college, etc.) At this level, Math is all about learning rules and following directions. I will qualify by stating that things do start to change when the emphasis shifts from doing calculation to proving things logically and in a mathematically rigorous way (most students would probably get their first exposure to the latter in Linear Algebra or course in Analysis (Real, Complex).
I believe that even the supposedly "dumb," inner-city, low-income kids are capable of learning Math up to at least Calculus III. The problem is that they are too busy selling drugs or getting girls pregnant and don't have discipline.
Math is all about discipline, discipline, discipline.
-Deo et Patriae
I agree and I don't. I just look at my own experience with math. I scored an 800 on the SAT verbal with minimal effort. Math, however--geesh. I've had $40/hour tutors, took special SAT math prep from an elite program, challenged myself with difficult courses (I was an IB student) and worked and pleaded and pushed and clawed to improve my math skills from elementary school through high school. I took at least 2 summer math enrichment programs. Ultimately, my SAT math score was 590 with an 800 verbal (this in 2002 before the writing section and when the logic section--the only real challenge on the SAT--was still there for verbal).
There are legitimately some people who aren't gifted at math and no amount of effort is going to make them gifted. If I had been sat down in an IBD interview and asked to run arithmetic problems in my head on the spot I would have never landed the job. My company asked me 100 general knowledge questions--who is the Fed chair? Who is the head of Apple? Which regional Federal Reserve bank is the most important? Which party controls Congress? Which federal agency regulates banking?
Really? Interesting
After reading the article, I'm not surprised. As one member mentioned, selling drugs and getting girls pregnant, I can see what that member means. I agree as well. I remember taking my nephew to the skate park and seeing a 13 year old selling drugs. I couldn't believe it myself, I was wondering what the hell is going on? Also, look at how many girls are getting pregnant as well. Not only do I think its about drugs but also technology. In opinion, so many people lives tend to revolve around phones and rely on them. Also I think that a lot of people rely on them to solve problems for them, rather than do them on their own. Our education system is being laughed at by many countries too. Its ridiculous.
I'm so grateful that my parents taught me mathematics at home alongside elementary school. Video gave me a laugh.
Here. From what I know, the top students in America are at the same level and/or exceed the rest of the world. The problem is actually due to the large students from inner city populations and the structure of education. As a teacher, I feel that students don't have any reason to work hard and learn the material. Teaching in a neighborhood with an average income of around 15k a year, a majority of students have Jordans, Iphones, Galaxies, and a plethora of things that I myself cannot afford. Everyday is a struggle to market education to these students and everyday I end up drained from the long day of work. I had seniors who didn't know that double spacing wasn't pressing the space bar twice. I had a 11th grader tell me that he didn't know what "this" was and how to do it and if I could teach him. He wrote a small long division problem. The same type of problems that I was learning in 4th grade and I consider myself to be educationally disadvantaged because of the school that I came from.
HELL, recently a first year teacher was involuntarily transferred because too many of her students failed. She had students that failed the state exam twice already and read at 3rd and 4th grade reading levels in 12th grade. She gave them the grade they earned, and because of so many F's the principal blamed her. I was even told by a principal that if too many of your kids are failing, then you are doing something wrong. If you would have been doing your job, all these kids would have been doing better. I ask the kids what I can do to help them, and they tell me that there is no point and proceed to tell me all the ways they work the system by applying for income assistance, food stamps, housing. The periods after lunch are empty as many students come to school to eat breakfast and lunch. They may or may not get food once they leave the school.
It is very real and there are always political moves that aim to disrupt it. Superintendents attempt to close schools down, there are teacher development programs, and the teachers that model are from the wealthy zipcodes. Students are pushed along (No Child Left Behind) so schools can get the grades. If they don't they close down for a few years to show that action is being taken and then reopen again. The actual need is in the students. If they don't have the basic needs (Food, shelter, safety) how can they focus on an education. Parents won't do anything to help, since many o them don't even realize the depth of the problem.
I am at the school at 6am every morning and I don't leave until 4:30pm hoping that I can get good results and reach a few kids. Too many times I myself end up passing a kid so he can get his football scholarship. I certainly don't want to be fired because I gave a student a grade he earned (an F) and that help him back from his football scholarship. I only vent this because I teach at a football powerhouse (underarmor sponsored) with a 5 star recruit last year and four, four star recruits this year with a few 3.
Great post.
Great post man. Respect the hell out of what you do.
i get all the coins, but why is it called a nickel?
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