Who is the Greatest Investor Ever?
Curious. Throw some names in the discussion and your argument why. My current favorite is Julian Robertson but who is the GOAT?
Trending Content - Hedge Fund Forum
| +43 | HF Start-up salary expectation | 16 | 9h |
| +23 | Undergrad Hedge Fund Programs | 13 | 12h |
| +23 | Navigating pod politics | 7 | 3d |
| +20 | Recruiting from Low-Quality Fund | 2 | 1d |
| +15 | Translating long-term pitch to short-term one | 1 | 8h |
| +15 | How hard is it to go from a large L/O to a Hedge Fund (Either L/O or L/S) | 4 | 20h |
| +13 | HC or M&A IB Group for HF | 7 | 4d |
| +12 | The 8 MNPI control gaps SEC examiners keep flagging | 0 | 4d |
| +9 | LSE EME vs MIT MFin | 3 | 2d |
| +9 | Analyst / PM Divide & Trade Book | 2 | 2d |
Career Resources
idk some bitcoin youtuber
u/DeepFuckingValue of course
The only correct answer
Bezos wife
Bill Gate's wife
Chase Coleman
Not sure if this is a troll, but I’ll take the bait. Chase Coleman is a glorified lax bro who has ridden coat tails his whole life. Daddy was a big time lawyer, was friends with Julian Robertson’s kids which led to a position at Tiger. Not saying he’s a dumbass by any means, but he’s more of a guy that was in the right place at the right time. He got in early in tech, but as far as actual alpha generation he is not outstanding. More so just factor exposure and putting on beta.
I was just about to comment this as well lol
D1 capital, altimeter and Melvin are better investors
Altimeter... please, I can only get so hard
Welp so much for Gabriel after this last Q lmao
Soros imo
Yeah it’s gotta be Soros
Agreed, think where he would be if he didn’t give a large chunk of his money away.
Wouldn't call what he does "investing". More like calculated speculations/trades.
Is that not literally the definition of investing . Predicting the outcome of an asset/class without complete certainty based on limited information.
Not trying to be facetious genuinely curious.
anyone/everyone on wallstreetbets
Warren Buffett
basic
Based*
Jim Simons
Dude is an absolute monster. Consistently shreds the benchmark with unreal risk adjusted returns
Associate 1 in IB - Restrooms
The real answer. If we are qualifying "greatest investor" as ability to consistently generate uncorrelated, stable excess returns at reasonable size, this is at good as it gets (except maybe the guys at TGS)
The book on him is really good and detailed - The Man Who Solved the Market. Maybe too detailed as it drags on a bit but definitely worth a read. His persistence was amazing.
Book was about 90 pages too long imo
It was pretty clear most of the guys the author interviewed for the book were annoyed with Simons/Rentech. The key folks (Brown, Mercer and other scientists) understandably stayed quiet. Although he got Elwyn Berkelamp to talk (before his death in 2019) which was pretty cool.
Damn beat me to it, but yeah, it’s Simons and second best isn’t even in the same realm as him
Thank you
Dr. Simons, could you respond to my request for an interview at RenTech?
Druckenmiller.
I tend to gravitate towards Michael Burry’s contrarian style of investing
In terms of current net worth, I would put a vote in for Bernard Arnault. He went long luxury at the right time, much closer to a Buffett than an Elon or a Bezos.
Soros otherwise.
John Malone
Such an underrated comment and investor. That rate at which that man compounded capital for 30+ years...
I'm long everything he touches
Bill Hwang
true tho actually, 200 mil to 20 bil. Not a bad run. At least he didn't go down in the fashion like Melvin did. Went down in a chad way (screwing over CS and Nomura and maybe a a few other banks).
Google “Deep Fucking Value”.
Stephen Mandel, Chase Coleman, Seth Klarman, David Tepper, and of course the absolute GOAT & emperor of investing, the best of the best, Mr. Bobby Fucking Axelrod
Yeah, but what's your level of certainty?
I am not uncertain...
Chase Coleman
Sacerdote
Probably Greenblatt or Ackman.
Why is everyone slinging MS lmao
Because Ackman is a chode.
JG had good returns when he kept his capital base small. I think the best investors are those who can adapt to scale.
Chase Coleman and Julian Robertson
Soros by far.
Latrell Sprewell
lol Roll Tide.
kinda meaningless to ask who is the greatest investor without setting parameters for "greatness". Is greatness returns for clients as a % or $ over last 5/10 years? Greatness meaning personal net worth? Greatness as defined in risk-adjusted returns? How do you evaluate all the long tech/short retail Tiger guys who don't care about factor exposure? Only public markets? Only equities?
But since everyone is just picking out their favorite billionaires who match their investing styles (or who these posters want to be when they "grow up") - I'd put Tepper, Singer up there.
It’s Jim /thread
Low profile. Silvercrest Asset Management. He who must not be named ...
http://silvercrestgroup.com/Rosters/view/28/departmentMenu:portfolio-ma…
Why? Silvercrest seems a run of the mill RIA/multifamily office
Edward Thorpe
underappreciated answer - his proteges' fund reivals RenTech
It’s a shame he had all that drama with his own fund. Gotta kiss the ring though.
Misread the title and thought it was asking greatest inventor lol
Greatest inventor is definitely Nikola Tesla without a doubt
Jim simons
Justine Tobin - Greatest investor in young talent to ever live.
She will never not b funny
this is the way
Peter Lynch
Peter Lynch and Julian Robertson are both GOATed.
Jeff Bezos’ ex-wife
Gotta be Jim Cramer
CATHIE WOOD
Can't wait for ARKXXX - Adult Entertainment and Sex Dungeon ETF with Onlyfans, Pornhub, Playboy, and Smith and Wesson (handcuff manufacturer as well),
lol i spit out my water
It really depends on the asset class, there are many different lanes in investing.
If you look at real assets/PE I would say Bruce Flatt is by far the greatest investor ever, and you cannot compare % returns because the size of the wallet is a huge determinant in liquidity and flexibility.
Speculator: Soros
General investor: Say what you want about him but Bill Ackman can take this spot
Debt: Howard Marks
I think Buffett is not the greatest "investor", but he arguably has the best "businessman" ever.
+1 for the breakdown. Tho I would say Bruce Karsh for debt, since Howard Marks is only the public marketer, not the investment guy
Interesting, Karsh has always been in the background. I've always tried to learn more about him but he seems secretive. Are the Marks Memos solely the work of H. marks or is it a collective representation of the thought engine at Oaktree?
Bump
in terms of returns/wealth, it's going to most definitely be an entrepreneur like Bezos or Jobs
if you're talking about people who run money professionally, it's likely edward thorp, seth klarman, jim simons, or someone else that most people don't have access to, didn't quit like druckenmiller or lynch or robertson, and have compounded 20%+ net of fees for at least 30 years
if you're talking about pure returns but not an entrepreneur, I'd be willing to bet it's a VC's GPs. the CAGR from pre-IPO to something like GOOG/FB has got to be insane, but I don't think those returns are published anywhere, and LPs' returns which may be public are most certainly less
it's not warren buffett, most of his and ben graham's CAGR came from one concentrated bet in GEICO, ditto for Phil Fisher (the abominable Ken Fisher's father), and if someone doesn't have a 20y track record at least, I don't think they deserve consideration as greatest investor ever
Isn't closing your fund when you can no longer produce outsized returns more respectable than continuing to leech off management fees and underperform like Klarman? I respect Lynch and Druckenmiller a lot for deciding to go out on top and not bleed out for years like say Paulson. I agree with everything else you said.
last I checked Klarman was still compounding at >20%/yr even considering recent underperformance. I don't fault lynch or robertson for closing, but if you're going to have the title of greatest investor ever, I appreciate someone like klarman, thorp, or simons who's gotten great returns for longer than the 13y lynch did and however long the others did. druckenmiller probably deserves more credit than I'm giving him, he compounded 30%/yr for 30 years when he closed the fund, I don't think anyone but ed thorp has gotten close to that
Bill Ackman imo
Lol
Literally no one that was listed above, except Jim Simons. Everyone else is a great salesman. The best investor I ever came across as an LP is a guy no one on here has prob ever heard of - Henry Ellenbogen. Ran the T. Rowe New Horizons fund for about ten years and runs his own shop now.
C'mon...the durable guys? The greatest investor ever?
.tb_button {padding:1px;cursor:pointer;border-right: 1px solid #8b8b8b;border-left: 1px solid #FFF;border-bottom: 1px solid #fff;}.tb_button.hover {borer:2px outset #def; background-color: #f8f8f8 !important;}.ws_toolbar {z-index:100000} .ws_toolbar .ws_tb_btn {cursor:pointer;border:1px solid #555;padding:3px} .tb_highlight{background-color:yellow} .tb_hide {visibility:hidden} .ws_toolbar img {padding:2px;margin:0px}Honest question, does JP Morgan count as an investor? Or does he fall into the same realm as someone like Bezos or Musk, insanely high net worth based off smart business decisions?
I'm in a crypto group chat with some of my little brother's friends (high school and college) who are mostly millionaires or close and consider less than 10x a failure lol...so I guess them?
are they actually millionaires? how much did they start with? have they been in crypto since 2013/2014 or only recently hopped on the boat?
Since we were in college, so 2011 or so…became more serious over the years, now are considered whales or close
they're millionaires already? what the fuck am i doing with my life
Ray Dalio
Louis Winthorpe III
I'm tempted to say David Tepper just because I admire how ballsy he is. Outside of him though I think Dan Loeb is very good at being flexible and opportunistic in terms of strategy and keeping up with the times and I think its why he's outlasted many of his value/event driven peers
Dan Loeb's returns have been garbage post GFC. Third Point is like a lot of hedge funds in the market that have been around since the 90s. Loaded up and made great returns (which is what really influences those "since inception" returns). Then blew up like the rest of the market in the GFC, then have under-performed since. I've seen the numbers and... meh.
This is not to pick on Dan or his shop or people who work there, many of whom have made a lot of money for themselves, but to make the point that a lot of high profile funds haven't had that great of track records. I've seen the numbers and especially when factoring in the volatility based on the strategy they run, they ain't great by any means. Great marketers with loyal LPs? Yes. Especially given that plenty of LPs are starstruck and want to meet the billionaire and figure they have other line items (ie other funds) they need to worry about cutting/trimming.
The numbers in the off shore presentation look a lot better than "meh" to me. I think relative to King Street, Perry, Eton Park, Einhorn and even Tepper and Klarman he's certainly held up decently strong post GFC. I think beyond the performance I'm just happy to see him embracing GAARP, venture, etc. in a way that people like Einhorn and a lot of the other old school value guys are too stubborn to. All that said, I'm a long term fanboy of his so I admit to my bias.
Jim Simmons or Howard Marks
Just a thought: Elon Musk?
The man invests in the future of mankind and it has paid off pretty well I would say.
I would wait a few more years before giving him his laurels.
Bezos' ex-wife without a doubt
Really tough to pick one in the discretionary equities space. Probably Chris Hohn of TCI.
I hesitate to consider the tech/growth investors as the ‘best’ since the trade has really been being on the right side of sector exposure post-GFC more than anything. Though obviously they have produced great returns recently.
i think key test will be whether they're able to time exit from the factor correctly when market changes - will differentiate those who can actually add value thru factor timing vs lucky bozos
Now we know.
David Abrams
anyone know his recent performance?
MacKenzie Bezos... she got in ~$1/share and hopped out at $3000/share
def J. Tobin (she has unbelievable deep market instinct)
Interesting topic, probably everyone had a similar discussion with their buddies.
I have 3 names (all 3 already mentioned above) for 3 different categories.
a) Soros - in the pure trading / speculating category, to me he is the epitome of wall street "speculator investor"
b) Simons - if looking just returns, he is the best, simple. As said, the man solved the market. But I would see RenTech not as just as fund, but some kind of laboratory that can build a supercomputer, and if they did not do investing, they could do some other mind-blown thing. Thus is would categorize Simons as "mathematician"
c) Buffett - besides all obvious, if looked strictly monetarily he is the most successful - x times than both Simons and Soros who are about his age - of course, everyone had different path etc. But that is exactly why it can be argued that he is the best - he is in it to make money, what investing is all about. If Soros is "speculator", and Simons "mathematician", Buffett would be "businessman". Someone who knows American business as good as anyone, and is making money by being business owner.
Most of these names (Soros, Simons, Robertson, Coleman) are more platforms and managers than the best investors.
For example, do you really think that Soros is a better investor than Druckenmiller? No shot.
Really just seems like some abstract gatekeeping of the word "investor". All the people you named run or ran money and came up with their own investment theses and individual ideas. A trader/speculator/gambler or whatever you want to call them is still just a synonym to investor in my books.
Further I would say that building a fund and framework, and imparting that framework on others so that they can continue is not a mark against these investors, but another notch on their belt. Its not like now that these guys are less actively involved the strategies have changed completely, but instead you can see that they have developed winning cultures, and platforms that can continue to invest successfully.
Your point is valid, but I think nuance matters here. You are incorporating a lot of skills into best investor or best trader and a lot are about managerial and business attributes. It's kind of naive to think the same people are the best at all. What tends to happen is that there is some aspect of the business that they are excellent at and then are smart and good enough at others. But you need to be truly excellent at something. Jack of all trades doesn't really work.
Bill Hwang: $200 mil to $20B in 8 years is no joke
And 20B to 0 in 8 days or so?
Seems like a joke to me lol
Mark Minervini
Mackenzie Bezos... greatest value investor of all time
true but marrying bezos def more of a high flyer growth investment imo
It is actually astounding to me how many people here comment Mackenzie Bezos in a more or less derogatory manner. She literally left DE Shaw with Jeff and was one of two employees from day 1 and was an intregral part of building arguably the greatest company in the world today.
Put some respect on her name because Amazon as is today likely does not exist without her contributions and shes probably a more capable investor than a large majority of users on here. Clowns on here act like she just sat on her ass for that shit when in reality shes probably a cold blooded killer at what she does.
Wow never knew she was one of the first employees working for david shaw, knew she was smart but have way more respect for her now.
Yea so people were saying she's a PE investor. LBOed Jeff, managed cash flows, post-acquisition transform, neat exit. 100% IRR
Deleted
Legally: Thomas Jefferson with the Louisiana purchase. He gave Napoleon the American Shaft.
A toss-up between Druckenmiller and PTJ.
But best quant investor is Simons
Ya I am late. Don't think he is the GOAT, but surprised no one mentioned Icahn.
Ackman vs Ichan CNBC showdown.
Probably one of the best things of all time to get aired on CNBC.
Ackman vs Ichan CNBC showdown.
Probably one of the best things of all time to get aired on CNBC.
How do you judge an investor’s quality?
Average net returns over a long horizon (10+ years)
In my humble opinion; Bill Ackman.
He may not have the cleanest success rate out of a majority of names mentioned below but Ackman is a living legend.
He’s failed and failed again and each time he’s gotten back up. He got royally, I mean totally screwed in his Herbalife short and didn’t let it break him.
His short in march of 2020 will go down in History. 2.6B overnight...
Bill Ackman is a legend, and although debatable I think he’s the GOAT.
In my humble opinion; Bill Ackman.
He may not have the cleanest success rate out of a majority of names mentioned below but Ackman is a living legend.
He’s failed and failed again and each time he’s gotten back up. He got royally, I mean totally screwed in his Herbalife short and didn’t let it break him.
His short in march of 2020 will go down in History. 2.6B overnight...
Bill Ackman is a legend, and although debatable I think he’s the GOAT.
so basically he's notable for an extremely volatile portfolio?
Pretty sure SolidCommission1 is Bill Ackman.
In my humble opinion; Bill Ackman.
He may not have the cleanest success rate out of a majority of names mentioned below but Ackman is a living legend.
He’s failed and failed again and each time he’s gotten back up. He got royally, I mean totally screwed in his Herbalife short and didn’t let it break him.
His short in march of 2020 will go down in History. 2.6B overnight...
Bill Ackman is a legend, and although debatable I think he’s the GOAT.
The Mendelson family. What they did with HEICO is just extraordinary.
Scott Schleifer. Got to hear him speak on a webinar last spring and he explained in very understandable terms his investing strategy and perspective. Guy is doing something right since Tiger Global cleans house. He's obsessed with compound interest and talked about making 20% any way possible. It's not rocket science but the guy came across as a total beast.
how do you come across as a beast? damn I wish I was in that webinar.
was that webinar recorded / accessible anywhere? would be interested in listening
couldn't find it online. OP what was the name?
Laborum eveniet et deleniti facilis laboriosam unde id. Doloremque suscipit vel cupiditate accusamus. Voluptatem ipsum corporis hic ratione. Ab quo qui qui voluptate deleniti.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Molestias omnis non in nemo animi. Enim ipsam ipsa possimus incidunt culpa quae molestiae. Quis et aliquid et neque corporis architecto quisquam. Possimus quos nihil explicabo sequi fugiat porro.
Reiciendis voluptas maiores eaque est voluptatem fugit consequatur. Ut velit nisi molestiae laborum est repellat. Soluta quis omnis fugit eveniet illo quod eaque nam. Aliquam aut cumque ipsum ea aperiam laboriosam dolores.
Accusantium sed dolorem modi eum. Ipsa sed rerum possimus iusto. Consequuntur sunt veniam veritatis aut hic voluptatum. Inventore fugit amet quod iusto et quibusdam natus.
Autem quis aut fugiat voluptas. Corrupti voluptatem aliquid officia iusto vel. Vitae omnis et aut consequatur quo. Nobis incidunt autem in recusandae numquam et.
Quos officiis consequuntur aliquid sed a ex. Et quod ex ut est. Minima velit aut est possimus.
Temporibus voluptas totam et excepturi quasi et. Facilis ipsum rerum voluptatem tempora voluptates aut. Fuga nisi hic cupiditate reprehenderit. Repellendus alias non qui ab quisquam consequuntur.
Quaerat est soluta unde dolor pariatur et. Est expedita ut vero dolorem rerum. Voluptatem earum animi aliquam minus. Deserunt illum iste distinctio. Sint rem quo voluptatem aliquam blanditiis. Cumque unde accusamus est aspernatur ullam eum. Deleniti aut excepturi ut iure quia consectetur.
Non odio vero odit sint corporis. Unde eaque dolores et quis. Itaque rerum molestiae sed quas ullam voluptas nobis.
Officiis doloremque voluptatem quaerat dolorem aliquam temporibus. Ut et voluptas odit recusandae. Aliquam at sit ipsa. Et veniam qui nemo aut qui dignissimos doloribus. Commodi consequuntur eos consequatur veritatis.
Qui est officiis quos sed et architecto delectus quia. Est quisquam est est. Velit ab et aut quasi voluptatibus provident sit dolor. At earum enim enim.
Quo deserunt ut sit aut qui repellat numquam maiores. Et assumenda dicta omnis beatae voluptatem. Ut incidunt qui rem. Est at at qui maxime repellendus. Debitis suscipit totam et esse placeat veniam.
Ut aliquid voluptatem id. Quae exercitationem molestiae nulla voluptas qui culpa beatae. Illum ad dolorem eum porro sapiente sunt delectus quasi.
Et quo fuga magni ducimus dolor modi totam. Vel aliquid facere quas et est. Ea ipsa deserunt nihil. Ullam quibusdam veniam enim consequatur alias voluptatem. Ipsa unde ab rerum aut esse.
Reiciendis earum et minima laboriosam vel ipsum. Omnis eligendi exercitationem soluta quia amet modi. Non temporibus in voluptatem dolorem dolorum. Quidem veritatis exercitationem deleniti sunt et sunt velit.
Id dolores ea eaque eum. Iste aut aliquam exercitationem cupiditate vel laboriosam architecto aliquam. Provident ut facere voluptatem voluptatibus voluptas debitis deserunt.
Suscipit perspiciatis aut omnis quidem tempora. Qui ducimus hic enim repellat ut facere voluptas et. Esse vero soluta excepturi accusamus ea. Atque non maxime aspernatur labore voluptates. Deserunt a consequatur ea quia qui tempora numquam. Non alias rerum ipsam est rerum ipsa neque adipisci. Saepe iusto quasi quas ut quod et.