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Issues at CS have been blown out of proportion by meme stock traders and online hype. They may be going through somewhat of a touchy time, but will recover. Read online- senior management was legitimately surprised by how blown up the thing got
Even if it was blown out of proportion, the damage is real even for IB professionals at CS. Many senior rainmakers have left the firm.
Could you please help me understand how it's been blown out of portion? Incoming FT analyst who is also scared as hell. The bank has a huge capital shortfall right now and they will go under if they cannot raise cap + cut costs severely. How can an investment bank cut costs? I've been mostly disregarding anything I read on WSO while paying more attention to broker research but every single analysts point to the fact that there has to be huge cost-cuts. I interned in a group where 80% of MDs left this year alone. How can a bank survive when all the dealmakers leave and those spots are filled by bankers from much sub-tier firms? Just trying to understand.
European banks have provisions that regulators can enact that essentially changes their bond into equity, diluting their shareholders significantly but creating billions in capital near-immediately. If it got that bad, regulators would enact it.
Look at that person’s post history before you engage. They’re not going to be able to speak intelligently on this because they’re literally in college and are recruiting for consulting next year.
This is the title of this guy’s last post, for reference:
”Mckinsey 2023 Summer Business Analyst Timeline Question”
LMAO college kids just backing each other
I just got called ignorant on another CS related thread by a guy who’s post history this year mostly consists of “when did you get the call?” “Did I get dinged?”
I’m Aso3…WSO is wild. I’m taking issue with this specifically because they’re giving out horrible career advice. This goes beyond the usual ranking stuff they do, this is actually harmful.
Sage advice from a kid recruiting for 2023 SA lmao
LMAO that's what WSO is, just a reddit for college kids
Only a fool would try to spread optimism. Buckle up
Don't listen to what senior management says. Even Richard Severin was sending out emails to its employees that everything is fine and the bank's balance sheet is strong until the day before Lehman went under.
High chance of a spin off of ib advisory. No shot they exit the us ib scene. Im sure juniors will be fine, its just that whether the quality of the brand will remain the same.
Most accurate take on here. The IB advisory division obviously won't split off but the quality might take a dip unless they can attract some high MD talent.
People say a lot of seniors are leaving but no one ever says which group it's from. The best group sponsors is fully intact
This.
What do you see happening to the group if it spins off? Exits remain intact?
Lmao they will lose their capabilities to win mandates if they can't offer LevFin and other BS financing
Can someone explain why everyone assumes no BS in case of spin off? Isn't a spin off most likely to happen with a capital injection so they can keep Levfin intact?
True.
That’s why EVR, Centerview, PJT, Lazard, and MoCo have trouble getting mandates bc they can’t offer levfin
/s
I don’t understand why you would stay loyal and wait until Oct 27 to “recruit.” CS and any other bank couldn’t give a shit about you, not to mention CS is going underwater, and you’re literally just an incoming SA for god’s sake. “Loyalty” should be the last thing on your mind right now. You should be recruiting as much as possible, and don’t lock out other options such as MBB in addition to recruiting at other banks, as your job will be more stable there.
Literally just saw on another post folks from CS (verified users) saying the troubles at Industrials and Tech groups are real. Can anyone saying that's not true verify that you work at CS?
Too much cognitive dissonance by current/incoming CS folks here.
They've publicly made it clear that theyll be cutting down capital markets headcount and resources. Think about a Sponsors franchise without LevFin capabilities.
So they'll lose balance sheet capabilities. This will severely hurt their ability to win mandates, which obviously means decreased fees. How could they justify maintaining headcount then? They won't be able to.
Good seniors have left in droves over the last 18 months and their replacements will have a tough time trying to outcompete boutiques on pure advisory as CSFB. This isn't a UBS -> Moelis story, where Ken Moelis takes the top talent to create a new "EB". That top talent has already left for kther banks
I just can't see a world in which there aren't huge cuts even at the junior level later down the line.
Guys, please read and listen to the above. Out of all of the misinformed stuff that college students post here, shilling CS is a new low. Your career isn’t over if you’re going there, you will be able to lateral. Please read the post histories of those saying “nah CS gonna be fine.”
delete
wouldnt let it stress you. there are a range of options and you shake out fine in all of them.
1) CS implodes and HH comes calling looking to pick up junior talent (10%)
2) CS flounders for next [6] years, you can recruit out to a tier 1 with an obvious reason (~80%)
3) CS returns to glory and you become a BSD. (10%)
Your situation is unfortunate, but not bleak by any means, because you recruited and received an offer, for what was once a tier 1 shop, now it feels like a tier 2 on a slippery slope. 5-6 yrs ago, there were a bunch of junior DB guys in the same predicament. Theyre doing well now..
There will always be people in denial
Swiss government would come to the rescue just like they did with UBS.
ofc the top comment written by a college kid who is recruiting for consulting gets 7 likes on WSO
What do you mean you’re remaining loyal to the bank?
Did you recently suffer a concussion or a traumatic brain injury? I’m not trying to be rude.
I’m just trying to help you understand that remaining loyal to a corporation that you don’t own/aren’t a founder of, ESPECIALLY a Swiss Bank, might as well be an indicator of a learning disability.
Please please for the love of god start recruiting immediately. I repeat immediately. You’re a SA. You’re 18 years old, you have all the time in the world. Start recruiting. Don’t mention it to anyone at CS and be discreet.
Once you have it secured, renege on CS and don’t update your LinkedIn or tell anyone where you went until you’ve started FT a year and a half from now. Finance is a small world, and full of SDE. Then this will be a funny story to share during your buy side recruiting.
CS might be, and probably will be fine, but if their advisory business is spun off, head count will get cut.
You're about to get obliterated by undergraduates lol
Lol I’m trying to the SA a favour. Being loyal to a troubled bank is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
OP: Please PM if you have any questions. I’ll hop on a call with you if necessary.
Bump
https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/credit-suisse-scrambles-finali…
It's over CS brahs. The smart ones are leaving now.
Literally no value add
I don't think Swiss Ted Cruz is applying the WSO terminology when he says "investment banking". He doesn't mean IBD. He is referring to the broader investment bank, i.e. S&T, corporate lending, and least of all IBD. He'd no doubt be surprised to learn that the industry thinks of an investment banker as a guy who makes his money giving advice.
Of course, not trying to be polly anna either. You can't cut those other things without doing some damage to IBD too. I've said elsewhere that OP should look to make a move if it's not going to be a time-sucking uphill climb given that SA recruiting is largely done.
Also CS incoming SA here. Wanna add that SA recruiting is over pretty much. Like seriously, no BB/EB at all recruiting right now.
I am also "staying loyal" to CS, but wanna add it is at least partly becuz there isnt a better option.
Would consider MBB if I were you
It’s funny how there’s a lot of these discussions on WSO. There’s no point speculating when the strategy update is on the 27th. Financial Sponsors had very little departures and the senior team is in tact (along with LF). If they lose the CS balance sheet, they can get capital elsewhere…
A lot of bad bad advice here. Been in the industry for almost a decade, so some perspectives.
First thing first: whoever is here trolling or with an agenda (try somehow to shit on the competition), I have a message for you: you are doing a disservice to this community to advance a petty interest like having a larger pool of interns to choose from and/or have fun.
Second: if you have an offer and want to re-recruit, go ahead. You should defend your interest and hedge yourself. Honestly, with a market like this I’m sure come February there’s gonna be a lot of experienced ANL trying to move from smaller boutiques to BB banks, and I don’t see most BB banks dying to hire. CS won’t have issues with junior headcount, and if need to throw some extra $ to get juniors on the door, they’ll do that. You guys are cheap. A bigger meal allowance and $5k sweetener does the trick.
Third: you all need to chill out a bit more. October 27th is the day they announced the next steps on the strategic review. You can decide then what to do. Don’t think makes sense to take any decision before that.
Fourth: I know CS has been modestly hiring recently at senior levels to fill gaps. The bank is overall understaffed, yet still punching above its weight and many of the best people have stayed.
Finally - I have friends that were at DB when DB was going through its restructuring. They left the bank because it was a shit show, but didn’t get fired. Stayed in touch with many of his seniors that also left to other banks and funds. Now many of these friends are at nice buyout funds. Enviable exits. I have others that were at GS/MS and didn’t get good exits. I have some that were at JPM and got fired on a silent round. Got really screwed, right before bonus. Point is: stop trying to over-engineer your career. Go where you see smart people and good exits. Neither the smart people nor the exits are gonna change over your horizon, which is 2 years (and realistically, you’ll get your exit offer within 4 months of hitting the floor). For those two things to change it takes a lot of time, I’d say 5-10 years (and likely more like 10 years).
This.
Idk who you are but you're the goat fr
They’re going to struggle to replace the talent they lost, just like DB and UBS. Boutiques and stable bulges will be the ones grabbing gettable rainmaker types. They’re in a hole that is hard to recover from.
I honestly could see a First Boston spin bank eventually being successful if it can stabilize and manage to avoid bulge bracket regulation (they may or may not be small enough) while bumping up pay closer to boutique levels. But that will take some time, and is NOT something you want to be a part of as a junior.
Why wouldn't you want to be part of it as a junior?
Likely they will spin-off the investment bank given I believe they'll gear up their focus on their core Swiss banking and WM platform. But their ib in the US is actually quite strong. Yes they've had a lot of departures, but they're still getting business done. It doesn't look so good now forsure but a lot of it is also augmented by the broader dealmaking environment which is weak af. As a junior there probably isn't too much cause for concern tbh. But if you feel compelled to recruit elsewhere, that's totally understandable - however waiting for their decision doesn't make much sense as your future will be no clearer then as it is now realistically outside of rote speculation.
As the experienced anonymous poster suggested, "defend your offer and hedge". Right now you have no real information. Real being the key. What you have is an offer. Continue to recruit as a hedge. I know it's a mental rollercoaster, but just suck it up and get another offer so you can compare.
Ignore all the ridiculous noise that comes from inexperienced college kids who like to see you dangle from the hi-wire.
Good luck!
CS as a whole is not going anywhere, you forget that it’s a large retail bank as well, where millions of people have their bank accounts. Before anything, the Swiss government would bail them out, just like they did with UBS (which the government actually made a ton of money with by the time the debt was repaid with interest). Now obviously the U.S. advisory business is a different story and they may sell it, but honestly who knows. Most acquisitions are made to grow your own company, so you’ll need to employees to continue that. I’m sure there will be back office functions and synergies realized with senior bankers that won’t be needed. However, any acquirer will need the people to come with the acquisition since IB is a services / advisory business. If you don’t have the headcount, who will do the work? I would definitely start to network and be prepared for the worst case but wouldn’t be super worried tbh
Man this is getting old
So many dumb posts here!
Yes, CS will likely not go bankrupt (that's just doomer fear mongering by the WSB crowd).
But, there are tons of red flags at the firm. Seniors leaving. Articles and quips from regulators and key personnel about spin-offs, potentially shutting down US IB etc. You can't go a month without hearing about another huge trading loss or fine CS has to pay. The stock is collapsing.
You should absolutely look for something else in case this turns against you. Do not show loyalty to CS. Do not listen to the supposed "expert" above with "10 years experience" (just lol) who downplays the issues at CS because they are "punching above their weight". Is that supposed to mean in terms of huge trading losses or fines?
Sure, if CS is the only offer you have then keep working hard and it may turn out ok. But anyone with half a brain is looking for other options right now (especially those early in their career). Many of the more senior people at CS telling you to "not worry" or "its all overblown" have tons of money already saved and/or a ton of deferred comp they are sitting on. Getting axed in a AMER IB downsizing wouldn't be that big of a deal to them. But the analyst/associate with student loans to pay.....you should be looking for other opportunities right now.
though I agree with your points, it has to be noted that virtually all ib sa 2023 recruiting is over, and OP is an incoming SA not FT.
OP has no other option but to wait and see what happens, but he/she still has endless opps to recruit FT to go where ever, and I don't think this advice is something that is highly relevant for OP as of now.
As someone who actually re-recruit again for full-time, I wonder if you would recommend ditch CS for a tier3 banks (like Nomura, Mizuho, Baird) just because of the stability and potential restructuring??? Like above said, there is not many spots for 2023 at this moment and under such a market condition.
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