Anyone else just not care about finance?
Just gone A2A and I'm finally admitting to myself that I just don't care about finance. I'm not sure I ever have, but I didn't realise that until I'd gone too far down the IB path. Then I got sucked in by the money and sense of prestige.
I can do the work, I'm not stupid, although I'm never going to be the most technical one in the team. However, I fundamentally don't care about super niche tax impacts or random WACC adjustments. I have no desire to get into a discussion with someone about the validity of our financing assumptions.
Anyone else in the same boat? Any advice on a path forward from here?
I'm currently coasting along in the associate role, lucky enough to be working with good analysts who want to take on the technical work. I feel like a bit of a fraud by I get by. I do kind of enjoy the more big picture, industry focused side of the job so I'm thinking of looking into strategy roles or or VC/growth, but really uncertain what to do.
Hope u don't mind the annoying intern question. I'm sure u had to be pretty good at finance and like it somewhat to get in, let alone make A2A? So how did that all work out? What did u major in at school?
In hindsight, how would someone know if they would fundamentally like finance?
No worries. I'd say it comes down to the fact that it's possible to be good at something without enjoying it. Plus the level of finance you actually need to know in order to get the internship, and then convert it, isn't really that hard. Memorise the WSO technicals guide and that will cover 95% of interview questions.
In terms of actually being on the job, couple of factors come in. Same point as above - the vast majority of the technical work we do is a slightly different version of the same DCF/LBO/merger model template. I can handle these easily, I don't find it interesting but I can do it. I'm also good at the rest of the job - process work, proactivity, reliability, attention to detail, all that stuff. And ultimately, you don't need to be incredible to go A2A, you just need to not be completely crap.
I studied econ at school.
The only advice I'd give in hindsight is to really think about what options are out there and not just go with the easiest path or the one that everyone else is doing. Question whether you are doing something because you truly want to, or because that's what you think you should be doing. I always say that to our interns who get return offers. It's a weird one because I don't really regret the years I spent in IB, I have genuinely learnt a lot, both on the technical side but also soft skills, ability to work long hours under pressure, that kind of thing. It's easy for me to say now that I shouldn't have gone into IB straight out of undergrad but would I really have been happier doing something else? Who knows.
That's a good perspective. Well i'm sure you can easily exit anywhere u have a liking to. Cheers
...bro, I think that's like 80-90% of IB workers, it's already a meme. Has been a meme since the 80s, even, I think.
Seriously, it's completely normal, and yes, obviously you can still make a lot of money in this line of work, even if you don't give a single shit about tax impacts etc. That's why I love the sell-side, it's just a fun place where some smooth talking and PPT skills can make you a fortune (relatively speaking, you're still a glorified wageslave).
I think finance in general is pretty boring tbh. Sure we're interested in it, but i feel like everyone is on the same page with doing the job for money to fund life outside/after work. Could be wrong but thats how I see it
agree. its for the life outside work pretty much. id say explore other roles since you dont want to get stuck in IB if you spend 2 or more years as an associate. probably best to leave after 1-2 years. look into growth equity, corporate venture which would be possibly some good experience on the investment side if you dont wanna go to a cutthroat pe environment, unless lucky and land LMM/MM pe with great culture.
Same, idgaf about finance but it’s cool and I don’t mind it. Absolutely love getting paid a shit ton in my early 20s though
Agreed Idgaf either
I only like trading and macro economics, hence going into s&t lol I would die in IB
Finance/IBD only means WACC adjustments as a junior. The reality is the numbers/math is a commodity and no one (OK some people maybe) really cares or particularly likes it.
Its high stakes game theory, sales, storytelling, being an actual trusted advisor, backroom BoD deals, etc.
As an A2A you should try to get away from the “Finance” and more into the fun convos.
At mid-to-senior levels it’s a lot more fun than 99% of other jobs out there. Everyone hates working and sometimes I feel like IBD peeps think they’re the only one.
Was looking for a comment like this, very well said.
The Excel and slides bitch work is boring af, it's just a foundation. The reality is deals aren't struck on the strength of models, comps selection, WACC adjustments and obscure accounting and tax impacts.
Shit gets fun when you actually get into the above. Discussions/negotiations are high stakes, lots of egos to be managed and massaged, crafting stories that resonate with each audience and not just regurgitating facts/numbers etc. etc. Boardroom politics alone are so entertaining.
Ya no way I stay two years. Also think it should be normalized for people to take gap years in life to take a step back and really think what’s best for them
I agree on gap year for life experience but I think the idea of “finding yourself” is a meme. Everyone I know who “followed their passion” in their 20s is broke and miserable in their 30s. IBD analyst years are brutal, but 99% of other entry level jobs are significantly worse (in terms of interestingness / learning / bitch work). If you work hard in your 20s, you’re kind of set for life. If you don’t, it’s very hard to catch up later on. I know this sounds like boomer advice but the old people always somehow end up being right in the end.
Unfortunately work is part of life. Find something your good at and can stand, and if you get good enough you’ll enjoy it (whether it’s IBD or something else, doesn’t matter).
Makes sense. Can you give examples of the people who focused on ‘finding themselves’ in their 20s — what did they do in their 20s and what do they do now?
are you 30+?
No one’s stopping you from taking a step back to just travel or do whatever it is you want to do. You just have to craft a solid story for when you want a job again.
99% of the people I’ve met in IB who act like this stuff is actually meaningful or interesting were either lying or had deluded themselves into believing it so they don’t have to face the reality they are a cog.
All we do is grease the wheels for more money to funnel to fewer and fewer companies/shareholders. At the end of the day most mergers create “value” by stretching costs and labor over fewer employees, especially in my vertical. If I get ms’d for saying that then fine, some people tell themselves differently so they can sleep at night.
I simply accept this as my role and am content knowing I get compensated more for it compared to basically anything else I could be doing at 25. When you disconnect your identity from work it frees you to enjoy the time outside of it. Work to live, not live to work.
I agree with you, but you’ve got tunnel vision. Meaningful? No. Interesting? What jobs are more interesting that also pay well? The only one I can think of is a doctor, and they are far and away the most miserable group of us all.
Theres a trend where 22-25 year olds graduate and get a job, and when are asked to do bitch work they think “this is the worst job in the world”. They then leave whatever that job was and go to another, only to find that alas at 25 you are still going to be the one doing bitch work. Often for less pay, slower career trajectory. Source? Me and my friends.
100p agree with your last comment though; applies to any job.
I agree with you completely, we’re trying to say the same thing. The society we exist within doesn’t often equate meaning to monetary gain, and when it does it can be brutal (doctors). I’m saying that people need to start realizing most jobs won’t give them the meaning they crave and they have to go outside of work to find it.
I enjoy it. Last Friday I was told to spend some time thinking about some structures on a specific deal. Did some thinking while going about my weekend. Had some ideas on Monday. All of them got nixed but took one piece of it and combined with the partner’s idea, the associate drafted it up and we sent to the other side as an opening salvo. Seems like an interesting few days to me. If that sounds miserable to you, find another job?
Following. I think more people are in this boat than you’d expect.
It's not only about finance, no one really gives a shit about their jobs if it doesn't impact others' life. That's why it's critical the way you see the job you do. As an example, you can either say that you're at GS Capital Markets and your aim is to make someone richer or you either can tell everyone (and really believe it) that your role is to "provide liquidity so economies can function" - and you may feel more satisfied doing "God's work". If you ain't concerned with a greater meaning, just understand why you're doing this job and how it fits with your values and ambitions.
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