IB doesn't have as much exit opps as this website made me believe
Currently trying to leave banking and basically the only exit opps that are coming my way are banking related. Been looking at industry exits and they all seems to prefer someone with Big 4 experience for FP&A and MBB Consulting for Business Development.
Sure they would say they don't mind M&A but looking through their staffs linkedin profiles you would find very few. A lot of the VC people as well seem to have started out in VC or did an MBA after banking or accounting.
Funny anecdote, FP&A and Business Dev hiring managers have been treating me with so much suspicion during the few interviews I had as to why i am leaving banking, I guess because a lot of them might have started out wanted to be one, the only guy who was sympathetic was an ex banker himself.
I thought that leaving banking would have people fighting to hire me in "lesser" roles (no disrespect, trying to prove a point) but it seems like this was something that was exaggerated on this website and in the real world no one really cares or they'll think you're an asshole who will be high and mighty around their chill office.
Finding lateral roles or PE roles hasn't been so hard but I am done with banking so those "exit" opps are meaningless to me.
This also has me thinking, what do people in Markets, ECM or DCM do when they don't want their job anymore, they are so specialized that I can't see them being taken seriously if they want to do something else without doing an MBA, I'm in M&A and people are looking at me with raised eyebrows for trying to recruit to their firm.
This also doesn't take into account all the people who were fired and are still struggling to find a gig.
When I look for jobs hiring ex big 4 CPA's and FP&A guys, my God, i literally see countless opportunities at all levels past the first 2 years. When I toggle back to jobs looking for ex bankers it turns into a ghost town again.
Overall, other than teaching me to work hard I don't think my banking experience was worth it could've done the same thing in FP&A albeit with less money because after two years of hell i'm still joining them anyway.
even worse for Associates and VPs.
OP here, I've heard the same thing, that being an associate or VP who wants to leave is tough because you are used crazy high comp compared to non banking jobs but not enough years in non banking jobs to command a similar salary if you do make the jump so you might have to look for roles with less experience or get an experience ass MBA to change careers.
Also people will even probe you more than they did me, imagine a VP in GS/MS/JPM interviewing to become an associate in Pepsico all of a sudden, like you didn' realize you wanted to switch earlier?
This is why your industry and vertical specialization is beyond important for Aso or VP, and product groups are bad bets IMO. Sector knowledge is huge when you move to corporate, not M&A expertise which most corporates do infrequently.
Can you elaborate why it would be worse for let's say a relatively new associate. Does the promotion not help a bit in terms of optics? I've been telling recruiters I'm not concerned about the pay-cut.
I think it’s partly due to the market. Managers are probably worried that you just need a job and will leave for ib when the market turns.
side note, do you think "the market" will ever return? I think its done, all the banks flooded the market with all the layoffs and I think the powershift is permanent kinda like how after 2008 housing has been harder and harder to obtain for cheap.
I can't see a 2020 type recruiting market happening again in our lifetimes
I think it will come back but not to 2020 numbers. We don’t need it to be that strong.
Lmao what do you mean “in our lifetimes”
in our lifetimes we’ve had 9/11, the 2008 crash, and Covid in just 20 years. It’s impossible to predict where things will be more than a few years out.
As has been said, I think a lot of this is market related. Generally speaking IB will set you up for anything finance / strategy (especially M&A) at another company, but of course with an associated drop in pay.
Coming from IB you're best suited to move into corporate development at another firm, which you didn't mention. If you check the Linkedin profiles of the corporate development team you will find that the vast majority used to work in banking. For standard FP&A I think it make some amount of sense Big 4 would be a better fit. Bus Dev is often almost a sales role, so again maybe not the most relevant transfer of skills as a junior banker.
Corp dev is an extremely underwhelming and depressing exit opp, and the fact that it is such a common destination just underlines the lack of alternatives for washed up former bankers.
What is so depressing about it?
Does going from PE Associate offer more exit ops? Or same ghost town?
can you please elaborate? current have a corp dev offer from big tech and a strategic finance offer from series C startup and not sure which to go with
What’s the point of grinding for IB to end up in Corp Dev when you could have partied through college and chilled at Big 4 and had the same exit? Plus if you’re going down that route it’s arguably better to have a CPA and Big 4 branding as these will open more doors throughout your career within the ‘Office of CFO’.
Yikes lol
Quite a few corp dev groups are interesting. Can assure you Glencore corp dev is most definitely not depressing or boring
For what its worth, Glencore doesn't have your typical corporate development team. It's called business development and they come from a variety of backgrounds (i.e. sometimes an ex-physical trader becomes the one leading a deal). There was once a discussion on here about how Goldman were faced across from Glencore on the table during a deal and Glencore smoked them (Goldman went in not expecting the young Glencore traders to be the sharpest people in the room, even during an M&A deal).
Paying off warlords is def not going to be boring
VC was always weird to me as an exit opp from banking. The most successful VCs have been former operators / founders / entrepreneurs.
Because VC isn't really an exit opp for IB. Not sure where this myth came from. Most VC firms don't have a direct recruiting pipeline and instead rely on referrals/connections. The few that do, don't really target IB folks.
It kind of is though - especially growth. We hire a lot of ex bankers
Would Corporate / Commercial Banks have a leg given some banks have a venture debt arm which covers VCs?
Always found ex-MBB --> VC people to be incredibly annoying. Pretend they know an industry in-and-out and never spent a day within it. Met a fairly arrogant HBS/GSB --> MBB --> VC senior partner recently.
I've found people in VC to be pretty annoying given their savior complex. Thinking that creating yet another B2B SaaS unicorn is somehow morally more upstanding than banking or buyouts. Also, can someone tell them that not every single thought needs to be vocalized on LinkedIn or Twitter?
Adding on that it's the market. FP&A has pick of the litter right now with a wealth of experienced hires from Tier 1 jobs, that is not usually the case. And honestly big 4 accounting is closer to FP&A because it's a lot of nitty P&L/accounting type work rather than the analysis and modeling you work on - and biz dev you wouldn't touch as an IB junior. I get wanting a better WLB but these specific roles you may need to sell your interest more since it's a different skillset than banking.
You are also maybe "overqualified" in that they are suspicious you will leave in a year or two when the market comes back. Corp dev, IR, AM etc will all very happily take bankers if looking for more lifestyle type jobs.
But generally gig 4 CPA is not a job that tends to lead to a job of exits...
Big 4 has a pretty solid amount of job exits. What makes you say that they do not? Just curious
Big 4 consulting has plenty of exits. I said big 4 CPA (accounting) which OP said - the audit roles feed into other accounting jobs, FP&A, etc. It's not a mecca of highly paid exits over there
I'm also really struggling. I just want out so badly of finance but am not getting a lot of traction for strategy / strategic finance / biz ops roles. Coming from a top BB I thought I'd at least get a decent interview rate but it's roughly 10% of all my apps.
It might be the market 1-2 years ago people were easily breaking into these roles but now with a flooded market and less opportunities recruiters probably have a ton of leverage. Just have to keep eating shit and hope something sticks.
We're literally in the same boat, its not like I am saying there isn't any exit opps its just that they don't just fall into your lap the way people on this website describe. I'm sure exiting from GS TMT will get you into a top Tech PE firm or Hedge Fund but if you want out of high finance then you might just have to kick rocks or get an MBA to switch.
Like others have said people might be suspicious of you, but I do not think that is a good enough reason as to why the roles you listed have such a little hit rate in terms of interviews, I've only had 2 interviews out of probably 30+ detailed applications, I even experimented and applied for a Financial Analyst role in the NBA paying 65k and got dinged before the interview.
If you want to lateral then yes i am sure working in a top IBD team would be great but for those of us that want out, its tough
I think the market is flooded with laid off people who are recruiting full time and might have more relevant experience so it's going to be tough. Yes, it hurts when you apply to a job that makes 1/3 of what you make but still get dinged without an interview LOL. I have to work so hard just to take a massive pay-cut.
I was thinking MBA too but that's a lot of work that is hard to juggle with this job + looking for another job. Also means you'll need to stay in IB for a long time until you can go to B-school (unless you punch a massive hole in your resume) and going in with only IB experience which isn't ideal. I'm just buckling down for a potentially 6-12 month brutal recruiting process with a lot of failures.
Our VC team is mostly: tech, founders /w exits, intrapreneurs and EIRs, or from other VCs
Our PE team is mostly: investment banking, commercial banking, M&A consulting
Going back to your initial post, exit opps will be fewer currently. And I don't actually know what happens to all the people that washed out of banking. Some went into their own practice (like a consultancy), some retired early /w occasional contract work, some are in corporate roles
Folks that wash out usually go to business school. It's the one get out of jail free card that most people have. If we're talking about post-MBA associates, then they're kinda screwed
Do you have clients you can go to that you've developed relationships with? Easiest way to get an FP&A role post IB is to have the CFO who you just spent the last 6 months answering random questions about the investor presentation or model to find you a role.
If you have a few that you worked closely with and are in the same city as you, just ask them for coffee, tell them you're interested in moving to FP&A and ask them for their advice on how best to make the transition. If they liked you and you're fine with a more junior role, it should be a really easy process.
I tried extremely hard to leave banking after my as2/3 year.
The only people that wanted to hire me were other banks lol (and mostly sweatshops), and corp dev roles in nyc or sf paying 150 base and 20 bonus(which is what HR girls a few years out of school make). If I found a corporate role in a cheaper area pay was even lower (140 all in).
Extremely depressing that exit ops were sweaty af groups
Now things have gotten better for me.
Could you elaborate on what's gotten better and why? Like as a VP you have more exit ops? Or just group got better
Hours have gotten better. I can control my time more.
I don't have to hold pen on models(I had to as an associate because analysts were all covid raised and just couldn't get the job done).
I don't get staffed from the staffer, only mds I work with and like(they just loop me in).
Granted this might be because m&a markets are super slow. But either im enjoying life more
How have they gotten better?
EXACTLY!
Like these people don't get I want out so I am not interested in that hot seat at Moelis or Evercore. I just want a decent job.
And again on the comp, its abysmal outside of banking, can't imagine going from ASO3 comp to $120k in the NBA or NBC Universal with bonuses included.
Exactly man. I don't care about the hot evercore, gs, perella, pjt, moelis lateral ops.
All sweaty af and if they need laterals it's because guys are leaving (and they are getting crushed).
So tired of recruiters pitching these to me
I made the switch from IB to FP&A role recently. Agree that the hiring market is far from ideal right now, firms are flooded with great resumes/candidates but the IB background is appreciated given the strong modeling/analytical skills vs Big 4 CPA candidates. It all depends on how you articulated your story on why you wanted to make the switch and I'm sure you will have a leg up in the case studies/modeling exercise. Also you will need to be able to stomach a big pay cut and acclimate yourself to a totally different working environment.
Based on your post history you had prior Big 4 exp so maybe that helped the switch?
Out of curiosity why did you decide to leave banking for FP&A. Did you go from BB to tech FP&A?
I personally dont see a lot of ex Big 4 people in my organization, most of the people worked in some sort of Corporate Finance roles before joining so I'm not sure if Big 4 would help a lot but I'm sure they are good names to have on the resume. Tbh I dont see a lot of ex bankers in my organization either except for Corporate Development function.
Similar sentiment to yours and other posters', I figured it would be harder to lateral as time goes on in IB so made the jump before it was too late. Also landed a role in an industry I'm much more interested in than my prior industry coverage in IB.
del
Banking may be specialized to a degree, but other jobs out there are only going to be more specialized, with fewer exit opps. Good opportunities outside of IB/PE are probably spread thinner than they are in IB/PE (where everyone knows what the BBs, EBs, and MFs are), so I'd suggest casting a wider net.
Right, but the supposed key advantage of IB is its optionality. HF might have fewer exit opps, but that's because most people who break into the industry want to stay there long-term. Fewer people nowadays want to do the same in IB
not retrenched but still looking around and getting some looks from Corp dev (ex bankers) and other banks.
stay the course.
Narrow your search. Find roles rolling up to a CFO or manager who was an ex-banker or look for strategic finance roles.
Totally agree with this, as well as taking time to look for businesses to buy if entrepreneurship is on the table. I would also find a mentor who does something you want to do and seek advice.
It is definitely tough because outside of M&A, a lot of people do not have a good view of banking. Whether it is accurate or not, people unfortunately think that your first few years of banking, you do not learn much. I would disagree because I think although there is not much client interaction, you learn a lot of skills such as attention to detail and financial modeling. If you focus on learning what you are analyzing you can learn a lot. However, a lot of others see the banking culture in a very negative light. A lot of corporate managers/directors I know in financial strategy type roles talk about how they specifically avoid ex-bankers and ivy grads due to them not fitting the culture or having no applicable experience. A lot of the people they hire are ex Big 4 guys because they have applicable experience and fit well into the culture supposedly. People on this forum hate on big 4 a ton but they really do have a very wide variety of exit opportunities that are very good.
I think banking instills a very strong work ethic into individuals who can make it through and there are a ton of benefits to having started in banking, but for corporate exits that are not M&A related, its definitely tough to get into.
The best advice, which some others already gave, is to find an ex-banker in a director role somewhere and try to get them to hire you.
I know at the BB's its usually not too hard to move to another (non-IB) team in the bank. Obviously cuts across the firm will limit options a bit, but its way easier and cheaper for them to hire you than externally. Also, as long as your not shit at your current job, you'd have plenty of references. There's not really turning back once you do this given, word will get back to your team but if you're proactive with them about it, they probably won't care and will help you find something, especially if it puts you in a seat where it benefits them (i.e. KYC, transaction banking, commercial, IB operations etc.) its nice to know a couple people on these teams for insight so usually people are helpful. We had a guy move to KYC, and now guess who we blow up for KYC related issues, that fucking guy, good dude.
But kyc is literally the most boring role even in ops
Yeah, not sure how many people in the FO want to move to the BO, even if the hours are better. Personally, I would blow my brains out if I work in kyc or ops
Oh, I don’t disagree. It’s just an example. Different strokes for different folks. Would be like my last choice personally.
To be fair though, your view seems to be skewed towards corp FP&A roles. You mentioned you're able to get attention from PE pretty easily - that is like the #1 exit bankers and ppl on this forum are striving for so it's not entirely fair to say banking doesn't offer that many exit opps. With IB you can get PE/HF/Corpdev&strat etc. I'd wager the majority of those going into banking aren't gunning for an FP&A role after. But also be cognizant of the fact that if a banking analyst wanted an FP&A role, they could land it fairly easily. Often times the FP&A job postings cater towards the Big 4 etc because they likely don't want to waste their time trying to lure in bankers who will be taken aback by the significant drop in comp. Also Big 4 work is just more relevant to FP&A. But if you make it clear to a company you want to work for who's hiring for FP&A as a banker that you want the job and succeed in the interview, they 10000% will not turn you away as you're a far more prized and skilled asset than a Big 4hire.
welcome to a (white collar) recession.. when i was graduating post GFC, people were elated to get any job. There was a 3+ year period where the majority of graduates were underemployed. heck, we hired an analyst that had been bartending full-time for the prior 12-18 months.
I often forget how bad the job market was from 2008 to 2010. Things started to look better in 2011-2012 and then I'd argue 2013-2019 was a great time to be graduating into the job market (assuming you approach it correctly, graduated in this time and screwed around for a few years being underemployed post UG which I regret)
People have no idea. It took me personally years to recover. No one was hiring.
Can anyone that has made the move from IB to a regular corp job like FP&A, etc. describe their experience? Particularly about satisfaction with the job, career path moving forward, and handling the pay drop.
There’s a pretty big recent push in the corporate strategy/business analyst roles to move away from abstract modeling to more data driven analytics.. Some consulting groups have adjusted to this as well, trading out Excel formulas for Python, SQL & VBA, BI, Tableau, etc which is why you see consulting as listed.
Because of this they are looking for people who have this technical experience. You can still not know much coding and be a high level manager, but you need to have an MBA to pull this off and even then a lot of people take some analytics coursework during MBA, even if they don’t use it as managers. Most of your classic IB guys are directors now and made the move before this new age of tech hit finance. You’re not getting interviews simply because you have the wrong skillset. Being able to present, articulate yourself, and put together polished business materials is great, but it’s not enough to get you an analyst or associate seat.
Nobody really talks about this on this site (not sure why) and a lot of the information here is really outdated.
and this will absolutely NEVER happen in IB. most boomer MDs cannot even open powerpoint properly.
and anyone that went analyst -associate - VP and up is totally risk averse and only knows "IB way" of doing things. I've found some of the most inflexible set in their ways people are VPs that started as analysts. they cannot fathom how an organization might function without turning model comments to v65, ouputting on ppt etc.
I find this hilarious...as I'm currently staring at a v80 model lol
buyside operations are in high demand I suspect, because of this skill set
can't really stress this enough - your exit opps in banking after analyst should be coming from the clients you interact with. I could make a few phone calls right now to clients and guarantee one of them would look into hiring me (might not give me a job on the phone but they would certainly be interested if they had an open position). Also why it's important to cover an industry and not be a standalone M&A banker past analyst / jr associate because you are then siloed.
I've heard this plenty before but i still don't know how analysts can actually make connections THAT strong in a 2-3 year stint. I'm an incoming analyst and outside of PE Associates/VP's, the only other people juniors worked with and contacted semi-regularly on a deal were the CFO's of random portco's. So that leaves your options at trying to get a job at one of the PE shops you've worked with ... or trying to get hired in corpdev at a tiny company you advised, assuming they have roles open? Is there something big I'm missing or don't know due to lack of experience?
I mean the guy clearly said after analyst/ jr associate - only after being senior associate can you really make solid connections with the client (i.e. due to multiple deals with the same client, interacting with the same level or even above in the client's org, etc.) For junior bankers you should be fine just recruiting and networking.
(1) Well… yes. FP&A is more of an accounting job than a finance job so it makes sense to prioritize accountants. Most jobs that… from a job title perspective, sound like a finance-type role are actually more of an accounting role within companies.
(2) I find it interesting that you say you are struggling with biz dev roles. Most people I know who came from IB didn’t have too difficult of a time getting those roles. Would you care to elaborate more on your situation and the types of firms you have been applying to?
I always thought IB > PE > PortCo was pretty doable
the entitledness on this thread and WSO in general has always amused me. perhaps it's more structured in the US, but for me, the exit opp thing is complete nonsense - I see maybe 10% of ex-IB profiles on LinkedIn going on to do FP&A/bus dev - and even then they make up such an inconsequential population of workers in these roles.
I just seen a role for 'business manager' for a hedge fund, they're looking for either ex-consultant or IB operations with circa 10yrs experience to support the CEO/COO, do roadshows, strategy, manage ops, trading etc. one prerequisite/expectation is that the candidate earns £200-300k currently and they offer a significant step up in comp. seems to be a mix of high level FP&A as well as corp dev, but no mention of M&A exp - I'm not sure how that would translate in to success in this niche role.
I don't think it's entitlement as much as it's ignorance. Most people, even on this forum, have this strange belief that IB is some magic wand that will open all doors in front of them. In reality, the best exit opps usually depend on your network and accomplishments. Doesn't matter whether you work at a BB or at some random fintech company
Or
Honest question - if you're seeing that Big 4 is so prized, why not go to a Big 4 firm for a year or 2 as a stepping stone. Surely they would be interested in an ex-banker's experience.
what a surprise that IB is glorified around WSO, no?
It’s not necessarily a clean IB exit for an analyst (can be for associate or VP) but what are y’all seeing portco finance directors getting paid? Typically a mid-level role, might have an analyst or associate report to them and report directly to CFO or C-suite if no CFO. In my sector that’s a low 200s all-in gig with a slice of mgmt units. Usually much more strategic/deal-focused than FP&A too.
I find this highly relatable as I'm also looking to exit within the next 1-2 years but have no idea where to even start – and it's 10x worse because I'm in s&t
Hot take here, but I think FP&A likes ex-Big 4 CPAs because they know FP&A is boring so they know Big 4 accountants will be okay with doing boring, mundane work day in and day out since they're used to it from their audit / tax days.
Source: work in FP&A, was at a MM bank before. I hate FP&A so much. Believe me when I say it's absurdly boring. Most of the work is just accounting type work, reconciling purchase orders, closing the books, etc. I'm trying to get out into a more interesting role. But I do think that maybe if I started in Big 4 I probably would enjoy it more, seems like having worked on deals in the past I miss the excitement of working on deals. Most of my team is ex-big 4 CPAs and they think the work we do is the most exciting thing ever, especially when they compare it to the work they did as auditors. It's very weird how your prior experiences can really shape your frame of mind in the work you do.
I will caveat though that FP&A teams vary widely. It seems like PE Portcos like ex bankers in FP&A just based on linkedin profiles. I'm in FP&A at a large public company. Although most of our strategic finance team that does topline forecasting are ex-bankers as is our CFO, which are more interesting roles than what I do. There's different types of FP&A which can either be very interesting or boring. The more boring ones are focused on expense management / budgeting and more interesting focused on revenue / sales forecasting.
My advice is to just be very, very careful in the type of FP&A role that you accept. Avoid anything that mostly focuses on headcount / expense management.
had similar experience as OP. i left banking and am now in an FP&A role and it turns out no one outside of IB/PE/HF gives a fuck about investment banking, if they even know what it is.
all that bullshit about exit opps was just bullshit
How has your experience been in the role? Did you leave after 1 year and what is the comp range?
I had the same experience, I left IB after being sick of the culture. Turned out everyone in FP&A avoided me like the plague, even though I had a lot of experience previously.I took a weird exit though, I joined the public sector, analyzing and approving large infrastructure investments. Pay is low 6 figures, similar to FP&A, but my vacation (6 weeks) and my work timings (8am-4pm) is awesome. I don't think I'll ever look back.
Why didn’t you want to do HF/PE?
Username checks out
I had a serious health scare and wanted to prioritize time and life. LMM PE opportunities could have been possible, HF not so much. But the stress never stops in those roles, even though timings ease up a bit.
Moved to a MCOL city to save more and have a peaceful life with a much better standard of living. I don't earn as much as I did, but I'm spending the best years of my life happy and free
when I was an analyst and realized that traditional finance exit opps didn't excite me, I spent all of my free time reading up on one specific subsector that I was interested in and networked really hard with ex-bankers/finance people who were in strategy/bizdev teams that I wanted to work for. eventually there were openings and they'd remember me, and eventually I landed an offer because they could tell i was super into their space and I spoke the language better than other interviewees despite not having any relevant work experience (wasn't in a group related to the industry and was also competing against consultants who did work in that space). now I'm headed to the GSB for my MBA in the fall but plan on staying in that industry even after I get out. I think it's insanely hard to land an offer from just sending out cold applications, or even reaching out to a hiring manager when you see the listing is up (still worth doing though) - you have a much better shot if you can make those connections ahead of time. it sucks right now but if you're not going insane, don't give up!
How did you maintain connections with people you networked with beyond the initial outreach?
i'd say its identical to what you would've done networking with bankers when you were in undergrad if not easier (because they don't get that much outreach bc there isn't a formal recruiting pipeline for these roles). I tried not to bother them too much, just sent a note if there was a big deal announced that they were a part of or something in the industry super relevant to them that we talked about in our conversation
If you're in the healthcare space, could you please PM me? I have a few questions if you happen to be in that space.
If you aren't, nonetheless - very impressed by your success. Congrats on GSB!
not in healthcare unfortunately, closer to media - and thanks!
I'm just in the first week of my internship (Corporate Banking at a BB)( so am very clueless about everything) and the training was done by two MDs in this field.People kept asking these MDs about exit opportunities and their advice had a few takeaways:
1) People have less incentives to stay with a single firm nowadays, so people switch firms often => more competition for exit ops
2) Network is very important. The MDs very saying they nearly lost their jobs at least 3 times in the last 20 years and what saved them was the network. Also what got them a business and or a new promotion or job was their network. Also the experienced people they hired (above analyst 1) have always been part of their network, simply because they knew who these ppl were and knew wether they liked them.
3)Industry and Technical Expertise
All in all these points seem to align with other people’s comments in this thread.
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Qui deserunt velit dolorem culpa corporis assumenda non. Illum harum ut facere quibusdam magni. In ut aspernatur magnam. Illum natus soluta rerum velit aliquam iure quisquam. Aut reiciendis et adipisci.
Ut nobis atque aut. Rerum omnis repellendus nulla culpa. Est hic adipisci vel ad. Et sint consequatur at nihil.
Ut et quibusdam ratione consequatur fugiat. Harum sequi quasi autem fugit ratione. Suscipit explicabo quis consequatur. Corrupti est est dolorum et impedit eum sunt quia. Ut sint facere omnis dolor.