My Take on Deciding Between Top Summer Analyst Offers
I recently gave a piece of advice to a buddy's younger brother who was choosing between some great SA offers. I wanted to share it with all you young masters of the universe as well.
In this specific case, my friend's brother was choosing between two great EBs. One that people on this site fetish over (think EVR M&A/PJT R&R/CVP M&A), and another fantastic EB, but maybe not with the same "gold standard" allure as one of the places I mentioned. I actually urged him to go with the "lesser" firm. The primary reason being that he had some mentors there, at both a senior and junior level, who he had built long relationships with, and who would do their best to guide him through the IB minefield. He didn't have that at the slightly more prestigious firm.
I know everyone is obsessed with prestige, but at the end of the day when considering multiple offers, I think people really need to focus on which situation they will be more successful in. Sometimes having a close mentor you can speak with off-the-record for guidance can be all the difference in your analyst experience, and can be the key to being at the top of your class.
There comes a point where the differences between lots of firms are minimal, even though people on this site like to split hairs. When I went through PE recruiting I can say first hand that across the EBs pretty much every buyside opportunity is open to every strong analyst.
If you are someone with great offers in hand, then congrats, that is truly a fantastic accomplishment! The skills gained, and the doors opened to you are all stellar at lots of the top firms and top groups. Now, when picking between your offers, make sure you consider where you feel you will be most successful. This is so overlooked, and answering that question honestly should help steer you in the right direction.
+1. I've always said that the difference between some of top groups is minimal. For one, being able to land offers at top groups says a lot about the person (in most cases) so you'll be able to do well for yourself no matter where you go. Top groups aside, I also think that if the difference between two offers are marginal, whether its a 5k salary difference, a slightly more "prestigious" group etc, just go with the people you like more.
Absolutely agree with this and in fact I made a very similar choice as your brother did. I formed a very close relationship with an MD during my recruiting process at the firm I chose and he esentially acted as a mentor throughout recruiting and my summer internship as well. Through him I got an "in" through all levels at the firm, getting to network with partners earlier than my internship class and networking with the top-bucket analysts at the firm way before my internship even started. Yes the EB I choce is slightly less "prestigious" than my other offers, but I saw myself thriving way more due to my connections. This became evident even during the summer, as my connections throughout the firm allowed me to get the top-quality staffings and more modeling work throughout the summer. I imagine that during FT, the connections I forged at the senior level will go a long way for recruiting, where I can feel comfortable asking an MD or partner for a referral to a top buyside shop. Of course, my experience is anecdotal, but I think it shows how decisions can't be made by surface level factors like prestige or exit opps when the difference is not significant.
+1. Wish I could do +2. This is great advice.
Great piece of advice, thanks for sharing. Would you have given him the same advice if all factors were held constant except he was deciding between two Full Time offers instead?
Sophomore Choosing Between 2 Internship Offers (Originally Posted: 06/05/2017)
I'm currently a sophomore at a target with a 3.2 GPA. My goal is to get an Investment banking summer analyst internship my junior summer. I have two offers for the summer:
A project management intern where I will do earned value models and forecasting in Microsoft Excel (Paid) for a private company working with the Department of Sanitation.
An assistant for an investment banker at a boutique firm who specializes in maintaining relationships with clients and bringing in new deals mainly in biotech. (Unpaid) Also has brutal hours, but I'm not sure if this would be more advantageous for my junior recruiting.
Which one should I choose?
don't accept unpaid internships, i'd keep looking or accept the first
Choosing Between Internship "Offers" (Originally Posted: 01/11/2013)
Hello All, I have two “offers” for internships on the table and I would appreciate some advice. Please bear with me, as this will no doubt be too long to read:
“Firm A” is a wealth management place… “Investment Consulting.” They have close to $1B in assets that they manage among 10-15 portfolio managers, each with a portfolio analyst. My role would be, it seems, to assist the managers and more likely the assistants, but my duties as of now are pretty vague. It is a very old school “family oriented” place. They are all about bonds, blue chip stocks, and the like… Pretty tame. The woman (manager) who wants to bring me in is hotter than words can describe, and it sounds like I would be working with her at first. Hit it off with everyone there except the “boss”. The “boss” did not seem too impressed when I failed to answer his sing-song rhyme question about Quantitative Easing… I think I could learn a lot at this place, especially from the “Boss” if he warms up. I have reason to believe that I could come on full time when I am done with school. On that note, there seems to be little in the way of progression there… It would go intern>portfolio analyst>portfolio manager… in like 5 years… if I am lucky.
“Firm B” is a financial services software startup. Cooler location, cooler, younger people, really neat software, etc. They are growing rapidly and as of now have a relatively small number of clients who manage close to $50B. I am really excited by their approach and what they’ve created, and I think it would be very cool to be a part of it. It sounds like I would have a pretty generalist role to start, and I am not sure how I feel about it. They were looking for a graduate but decided they would take me even though I am a student and am starting school next week. I have zero programming experience, and it sounds like I might be thrown right into it after a little while, which is both exciting and a little daunting. I kind of feel like “Firm B” is a little more risky, but it could potentially have a better payoff.
Yea, this is starting to ramble, so I’ll try to finish up… I am most concerned with building some kind of skill set, and gaining valuable work experience that will give me options. I am completely embarrassed by my undergraduate institution and would really, really like to go to grad school after a gaining some work experience. Which of these firms do you think would set me up better, in general? From an adcom standpoint? Should I be jumping on the chance to learn some programming, rather than learn about bonds and whatnot? Or would working my way to a portfolio analyst role be more beneficial? I have until next week to decide.
I will be graduating in the Fall with a BA in Econ and have some other non-finance internships. I commute everywhere and Firm A is roughly twice as far away as Firm B, which also happens to be in the city my school is in. I will be taking 6 classes, working whichever internship I choose MWF, and usually do menial, prison-style labor on the weekends. I tend to make decisions based on logistics and convenience, but it’s a little different this time. If it seems I am leaning in one direction, I can tell you that I am not. LSO-style, elitist answers are encouraged, so long as they are moderately helpful; I sincerely appreciate any advice.
TL;DR: Wonk without a clue gets lucky. Has to choose between investment consulting internship and ambiguous position at financial services software startup. Wondering which will “look better” or have a better advantage as far as developing a skill set are concerned. Excited for both offers, and hoping for some advice. Thanks to all.
Just FYI you don't actually research specific stocks or investments in investment consulting its just asset allocation, asset class research and manager research. So basically you'll just be picking the asset management companies/fund managers you want to actually manage the assets you have, which asset classes to invest in and how much. I found it to be incredibly boring.
However if you have no previous finance experience and want to pursue finance long-term, the investment consulting internship sounds like it would be better experience than working for the start up.
Agree with Karlsson on the finance aspect. Although you say it is twice as far as the software company, you will be able to leverage it as some type of financial experience. I would say it is a step up from PWM but not that big of a step.
But it all depends on what you are looking at after you graduate. I was 100% focused on finding a finance position so I would take option A hands down...Especially if you could land a full time offer. Having a full time back up option was a very nice luxury I had in school. The back up offer sucked and I didn't want it but it allowed me to turn down some other offers you will find during your senior year.
Also, remember that Option A is a networking/smoozing career. You make more money by getting larger clients and taking over smaller clients that PM's can't handle. I've seen first hand guys become very successful but the PWM roles can be very hard to start if the firm is very "eat what you kill" focused.
Sum it up: I chose something very similar to Option A in college.
Option 1 is a safer bet for putting yourself in the door in finance. At least we know for certain what you did. Would likely make it quite difficult to get a bulge bracket with either choice but the first one offers up more chances in finance.
Not sure what your long-term career aspirations are but unless the second option is going to each you something where you can go all in on a start up it makes more sense to choose a finance job.
This is a tough one.
I am far from an expert on b-school admissions, but I feel like firm B probably has a more likeable story. You might want to run that one by Betsy Massar. I think that one makes it harder to transition to a financial company though. I think you don't want to underestimate the colleague situation early in your career. It won't be as much fun hanging around a bunch of old married people.
The only thing I would say about firm A is not to choose it solely because of the manager....that lady may not be there forever. Maybe you could work at one of the investment managers at some point down the road if you hit it off with them. I couldn't handicap your odds though.
Good luck.
Wow, thanks for the replies.
Just a couple of things - The thing that deters me from Firm A is the fact that it does not at all seem to be an "eat what you kill" type of place. I feel like it is so tame. I only met with them a few times, but it seems like there is little to no analysis, and they basically just set people up based on a very simple plan: "You are 30. You should have 30% in bonds and 70% in stocks. When you are 40, you should have 40% in bonds and 60% in stocks, etc. We will basically choose one of 5 or so stocks (basically IBM as far as I could tell) for your portfolio." - - - - The best way I can describe it is "point and click". It just seems... too easy lol. And that's why I was wondering if it is a good option. I must say though, being a portfolio analyst there seems like a sweet gig.
For me it just comes down to "Which one will give me skills that make me a marketable candidate?" That's when I have second thoughts about Firm A. As others mentioned, at least people would know what I was doing though....
For the record, I have zero chance at a BB, and am not really concerned with that. Also, I am looking at something like the UVA Commerce degree, or the Duke MMS, or a MSF at one of the schools frequently mentioned on here... The MBA would come later on, if it ever does, and it would probably be an "M7 or Bust" deal. I am pretty far removed from "The Track." Getting a masters at a school that people have heard of would probably be enough for me to be happy/make it work.
Thanks again for the replies.
Based on the additional color you provided, firm B is looking better to me.
Go with firm B. It seems you might be really distracted at firm A. But that's a hard one especially when looking at job safety. Firm is better if you looking to beef up your CV.
choosing an internship amongst 8 offers (Originally Posted: 10/05/2013)
boutique PE firm boutique IB boutique ER BlackRock FMA JPM commercial banking baml commercial banking bloomberg data analyst dun bradstreet business development Capital One business analyst
Want to go into a semi-quantitative area of finance like IB or ER, but this internship I want to get the one that would set me up for the best opportunities FT
please rank them in order. thanks
Do you even have any offers? Obviously ib and er are the internships you want. The PE one would be third. You want to be in a "quantitative field", this list is not very quantitative....why are you even including comm banking and bus dev???
yes.
i know the ib and er one are the best, but both are unpaid at a boutique whereas the commercial banking ones are at legit BB's and pay well. and the bus dev one is in malibu ca so there is a locational bonus. what about blackrock fma? it was the most competitive one and its in nyc.
im not exactly sure what i want to get into yet so im just picking the "best" one.
bump
Deciding between internship offers (Originally Posted: 05/27/2014)
Hello monkeys! I know it's pretty late at this time of year but I am really struggling with the internships for the summer. I am a sophomore and want to work in the consulting and financial services industry. I am currently studying abroad in London for the spring semester, and have the opportunity to intern at a small executive search company in London. This opportunity is provided by an alum and the company does focus on the finance industry.
I also interviewed with Infosys' InStep program. They will let me know the result by Friday. The program is in India and it's quite prestigious in IT consulting. They might have future employment opportunities in their global offices. And my last internship offer is a research position at a private risk management consulting firm. The thing is I am not very good at researching and writing and the firm itself is quite small. All of the internships are paid. So any advice?
Thanks so much!
Anyone can help?
Infosys InStep because it's more relevant to what you want to do.
Infosys, but if you're not from India, do you want to and can you really spend a summer there from a logistics point of view?
Could be a great resume addition if you're willing to, OP - consulting often involves traveling and you can point to the fact that you're comfortable traveling and can succeed in new/very different locations if you do the Infosys one.
Echo what previous posters have said, the InStep would definitely be a better resume builder. While the risk management consulting firm might be more relevant to your desire to work in financial consulting, as a sophomore I would imagine you would stand out a lot more come Junior year with the former.
Thank you so much for all your advice! I would go for Infosys!
Have you already taken this up OP? Infosys Consulting is prestigious allright but its nowhere as close to MBB's or even mid tier consulting firms. Speaking from close experience. But yeah, India might me a good thing to show on your resume.Diverse experiences, they say :)
and oh yeah just to address your worries, if you have any, Infy will provide you with accomodation for the full duration of your stay. And Infosys campuses are micro-cities in themselves. You wont see the scary India they mention everywhere here (it's not that bad). It's like the Google offices, with golf karts and bicycles and all. Hope this helps!
Yep I've decided to go for Infosys. Thanks for the advice!
India for sure. Did an internship with a BB in India and it paid off for FT in NYC.
Choosing between sophomore summer internship offers (Originally Posted: 03/07/2013)
Hey all, I need to decide between the two offers I have on the table for this summer. The first one is at an RIA in Chicago (financial district). It would be relevant experience to what I eventually plan to do (AM, capital markets). The second offer is at a freight and shipping company on the west coast. It is less relevant, but more of a unique experience.
What would you guys recommend I choose?
I think the RIA investment firm will give you better exposure to the financial industry and will lead to a better summer than the broker trainee program will. That being said, if you get the ER offer you should take that hands down.
If you are really interested in something then do it.
RIA sounds like something that is very common and every fresh/soph has on their resume. The shipbrokering sounds pretty cool though. In the end, you need to determine if you are interested in the shipping/freight industry.
.
Can't decide which internship offer to take (Originally Posted: 05/18/2011)
Just got two offers, one from UBS-ibd, the other from a hedge fund.
UBS-IBD -- basically only coverage banker in this branch office. As what i have heard from the intern last year, they had no deals....so it was a pretty easy summer. The program only lasts this summer.
Hedge Fund -- currently manages approximately USD780 million in assets with the majority of it invested in Asian companies. i got the offer as an equity research intern. The internship program last for 6 to 12 months, starting from this July. The firm purely trades equity and puts a lof of focus on fundamental analysis. Generally, it holds a position for at least 6 months. It is a Tech Fund and just starting it's non-tech fund.
Which offer is better, in terms of future career path and life style? I would like to have a occupation that has decent payment and good work/life balance. (I had some major health problem last year...almost died in the hospital due to Karoshi.) Please give me some advice. Thank you.
hedge fund sounds like a cool gig.
You left out the most important part..
What do you plan on doing in the future?
To nontarget: The hedge fund purely trades equity. The firm puts a lof of focus on fundamental analysis and they generally holds a position at least 6 months. They do not have any quants or traders.
To WillATX:
Honestly, I don't know yet..... I would like to have a decent job with a very good work/life balance. I could never let go my health, family and friends. I kind of want to become a sales trader ... I heard it is much better than most of the positions in the sell side. Nonetheless, I do not mind working in the buy side as well, though the performance of the fund is crucial for the possible payments.
You say that as if its a bad thing.. It does depend on what you want to do long term, but it sounds like a neat gig
lmao@ "equiry"
I am a sales trader brew, go to the hedge fund gig.
If that is what you want to do, no need for you to go and bust your ass in IBD; if you do a good job at the hedge fund they will put you on one of the floor of the sell side they deal with; as an intern first but at least it will be your way in into equity S&T (but people shout at you a lot and you have to take a LOT of shit, so dunno how good it is for you depending on your health condition). But again depends what hedge fund. If you want you can PM me the name and I'll tell you what I think of them (I am on gardening leave and doing fuck all, so plenty of time on my hands).
That said - IBD is quite nice as it gives you a nice kick up your ass and will allow you to open up to a lot of career paths. Is your health ok at the moment? If you are still recovering I doubt all nighters is a good idea, and then I would definitely go to the hedge fund gig.
Everybody is always looking for the buy side exit strategy in IB. Skip the middleman and go straight to the HF.
Help deciding between 2 internship offers..Deadline Friday! (Originally Posted: 04/24/2013)
Hi Guys,
After months of struggling things seemed to click suddenly and this week I received 2 offers and am having a tough time deciding which to go with for my summer internship (I'm a junior).
Last summer I worked at a small hedge fund and I loved that experience. Like many others on this board I'm vying to ultimately work for a hedge fund down the line in my career. Obviously, this might change over the years.
Now I'm deciding between interning at Allianz Global Investors (3rd largest asset manager) in their US Business Management & Strategy group exposed to Business Strategy, Executive Office, Sales Reporting & Analytics, Strategic Controlling, Client Experience, and Project Management. The internship is a platform for a full time offer. It doesn't rotate outside of the office but there are "lunches" which provide networking opportunities. It sounds more like a support mid/back office role to me.
On the other hand I was offered an internship at a small boutique investment bank that focuses on M&A and advisory services. The bank has about 15 bankers and focuses on small to middle market transactions within manufacturing, electronics, and consumer products.
I want to take the position that will serve as a better platform for full time recruiting. Some people say that a bigger brand and access to the Allianz network will provide better opportunities. Others say that the banking experience is more relevant and will be looked upon more favorably.
I'm confused with this dilemma. Its a good problem to have I guess. I need to decide by Friday. Any help will be much appreciated.
Thanks!
bumppp
Hi amman987,
Which one did you decide in the end, and how was your experience?
happyivey
Choosing between internship offers (Originally Posted: 03/25/2013)
I'm a sophomore at an Ivy interested in doing an IB summer analyst gig next year and have a few internship offers. I was wondering which would put me in the best position for junior recruiting
All in NYC. Culturally, definitely got the best impression from the PE firm. Also, would like to end up in the principal investing space, whether PE or HF, eventually. Would doing a summer at a boutique IB be a significant advantage over working at an MM PE firm?
Definitely not #3. Between #1 and #2, if you are shooting for BB IBD next year, I would take #1. While PE experience is definitely relevant (probably more than any other internship except IBD/S&T), IBD is IBD and your skills will probably be the most transferable. Plus it gives you an easy answer to the "Why IBD" question that you're bound to get at almost every single interview.
My guess is BAML Wealth Management - a lot of people use that as a ladder to BB IBD.
Anyways, will probably say boutique IBD firm, since you say you'll get to see some live deals and the deal flow is good. Not many people have that experience going into junior SA recruiting, so you'll be ahead in that respect.
HOWEVER, my guess is that you're trying to go PE right out of undergrad. I would say that it's better to do your two-year stint and get in as an associate as opposed to an analyst - both for comp and for firm reasons. If you do the MM PE, I assume you'll be trying for PE SA and full-time positions right out of undergrad, which is difficult but not unheard of if you have previous PE exp. All in all, you'll have a better chance @ full time if you go to the best branded IBD for junior SA. I know it sounds stupid, but brand name for full-time right out of undergrad means A LOT.
Thanks for the input guys. #3 is JPM/GS/MS Asset Management but I've pretty much ruled that out.
I am pretty set on doing an IBD stint unless I get Blackstone/Bain Capital/Apollo etc. or HFs of a similar nature out of undergrad and will definitely be going through the IBD SA recruiting process next year. The reasons why I'm pretty conflicted between the other two offers right now is 1. the boutique bank is pretty small and relatively unknown whereas the PE firm has some pedigree with a few partners with extremely impressive backgrounds and 2. from my various rounds of interviews with the 2, definitely preferred the people/culture at the PE firm, though I didn't get a negative impression from the boutique either.
I am pretty confident that I can answer the "Why banking" and "Why banking if you've already done PE" questions well and am really just curious about how much of a difference the two would have with regards to recruiting outside of that question.
I think it comes down to branding in this case. If you are looking at a place like Audax/Monitor Clipper then I'd go with that over a no name shop. If its a specialized boutique with clout like an Allen&Co, I'd make sure that they specialize in a group that you would want to work in (i.e. a group that your resume reader works in). Even then, it would be a toss up for me.
If that is the case the banks will likely know that the Audax/Clipper offer is more selective than a BB. Also, if you have such a PE offer, why not just sit on it. Most people on WSO would rather be there than BB IBD. B-School exits are better and you'll have an easier time lateraling to a bigger firm. (let's say FT recruiting doesn't work out...where would you rather be?)
Personally I'm more interested in the HF space, and would love to be working at an ESL/Elliott/Third Point type of activist fund. Obviously near impossible to land at one of those funds out of undergrad so I'm pursuing the more traditional IB route. However, I don't have any experience in PE and may discover that I love it in which case I'd probably recruit for PE straight out of undergrad.
Go for the MM PE, it won't hurt you. It might even help differentiate you during junior recruiting compared to everyone who worked at no-name firms. I did boutique IBD sophomore spring and MM PE sophomore summer. Ended up with offers from both GS and MS after junior recruiting. I was asked some questions about why IBD over PE but those were fairly easy to answer.
An added bonus is that you said you like the culture more and the pay is better. Also, analysts/associates might even be more likely to pull your resume for interviews if they themselves want to jump over to PE and are interested in that firm. This forum seems to really emphasize IBD > anything else but that's not necessarily true based on my experiences.
Exactly. To do that type of work, which is really long term investing that mirrors PE, why not work in PE. You don't hear a lot out of PE firms in terms of pre-MBA exits because most are not that lucky to find themselves in their ranks. Honestly, you will be able to blaze your own trails. However, make sure that the firm offers returns. I recently turned down a PE offer because they explicitly stated that they do not offer returns. One of the hardest decisions I had to make.
interested in how you landed the MM PE gig. OCR? cold-calling?
I'd say the 2 main factors here are modeling exposure and the personal networks of your prospective colleagues.
If you get to work with a senior guy who's willing to refer you to his friends at BB's or top boutiques, that can be huge.
The firm does offer returns as they usually recruit from H/W for junior SA gigs and have a few analysts.
I landed the internship with a combination of OCR/personal network, OCR in that the firm recruits at my school and my personal network allowed me to be put in consideration as a sophomore rather than junior.
Thanks for all the input guys, I'm leaning toward the PE firm right now.
option 2
boutique IBD. IB > non-IB for IB recruiting, especially at such a junior level (i.e. soph internship).
DEFINITELY #2.
This whole "IBD > anything under sun" is a load of crock ****. Don't lie to this kid... top firms do NOT just look for sophomore IBD SAs. PE will set you up very, very well for junior summer! And the LIFESTYLE is better and PAY is better.
Go for the PE. Explaining why you'd prefer IBD to PE will be easy.
I'll be getting better modeling/valuation experience at a much more respected name at the PE firm but obviously the IB gig is more directly transferable as a whole in terms of BB/elite boutique IB next year. Leaning toward the PE shop right now, thanks for all the input guys.
I don't see taking the PE internship as a "future-killer" for any career opportunities going forward. You go to an Ivy, which means you have access to huge alumni networks. You won't be the first person from your school to take this path, and if you foresee difficulty transitioning from PE --> IB come junior year, then talk to alumni and see what you can do. If your school is a target, then students with decent GPA's/interesting resumes will make it out okay.
Yeah I definitely won't have a problem getting first rounds, I've got alumni contacts at all the BBs/Elite Boutiques and a good resume/GPA. Basically comes down to the PE gig being a better valuation/modeling experience at a far more prestigious name whereas the IB internship is obviously the most relevant experience for IB SA recruiting next year.
Pretty sure I'm gonna sign at the PE shop, appreciate all the help.
Deciding on SA IBD Offers (Originally Posted: 03/01/2009)
I am currently trying to decide on IBD offers from: -Merrill M&A -UBS M&A -Barclays
I like Merrill but am very worried about BofA's condition and what it will mean for the reputation of the M&A group. UBS is littered with its own problems and I'm not sure what groups are good at Barclays. Anyone have any advice?
BarCap all the way. UBS M&A have a lot of good people, but be wary...
Seems to be the best positioned in this market place.
I concur.
Merrill M&A will have tons of their senior bankers going to BofA. If you want M&A, the head of Barcap M&A is now head at Citi, and the group kinda desinigrated. Prob. stay away from UBS for now, because of the financial problems, however it still has a very good M&A department which will not go away solely because of the economic crisis, even if the bank's balance sheet is beaten up. I would rank:
Merrill, Barcap, UBS. But, if your looking for M&A i think it may be Merrill, UBS, Barcap.
on a side note, forgot the mention. when BarCap acquired Lehman. Lehman-ites got the royal treatment whereas original BarCap folks got shat on. BarCap cut most of its original IBD to take on the stronger Lehman IBD. BarCap cut most of Lehman FI to retain its original FI.
Friends who were 2nd yr analysts at original BarCap did not get 3rd yr analyst offers. Whereas, 2nd yr analysts at Lehman got the 3rd yr analyst offers from BarCap after acquisition.
Won't really affect your decision, but bit of insight into how BarCap dealt with its human capital in the past few months.
I would take BarCap.
The former Lehman co-head of M&A Mark Shafir went to Citi but the other Co-Head, Paul Parker, stayed and took full responsibilities as the new global head of Barcap M&A. In addition, virtually all of the heads of the Lehman industry M&A verticals joined BarCap and are heading the groups.
BarCap took Lehman's model though right? There is no M&A group but there are dedicated M&A analysts within coverage group.
Since many senior bankers have deffected, what groups are still strong within Barcap?
Not that many senior bankers left. Diamond actually did a good job of retaining talent.
Standout Groups: Natural Resources, CMG, Consumer/Retail, FIG
And yes, the M&A setup is basically verticals within coverage groups, not a single M&A execution group.
Natural resources I know is one of their good groups
hey, how do you already know your group assignment along with the offer? i thought (and i am pretty certain concerning one of those banks at least), that you choose groups only after you sign or after a sell day...
I would stay away from ML. In Europe their FIG team was legendary. Now, 12 of their FIG bankers have gone for DB. If you want to work for an empty shell, go for ML. UBS have had problems, yes. But they are still top 5 M&A overall, top 3 in Europe, and #1 in the UK. I think UBS have been burnt quite a lot in the US, and that will affect them there. Barcap is the strongest, of the 3, going forward in the US. I'd take them in your shoes.
Just my 2c.
Its interesting to see people putting Barcap in front of Merrill and UBS.
Def not Merrill.
I think this thread is over lol
.
Deciding between 4 S&T internship offers (Originally Posted: 01/29/2012)
First time posting, I wanted to see if anyone could offer a little color on the relative strengths of each internship and what program might best set me up for success if the internship leads to a full time offer. The four offers that I have right now are:
UBS S&T (Rotational - 1 wk training and three 3-week rotations on different desks across all product groups, NYC)
Citi S&T (Rotational - 1 wk training and three 3-week rotations on different desks across all product groups, NYC)
Wells Fargo S&T (placement day in March, 1 desk all summer, NYC, Charlotte, or San Fran depending on desk placement)
Morgan Stanley Institutional Equities S&T (Rotational - 1 wk training and three 3-week rotations on different equities desks, NYC)
I am more interested in trading/ non-publishing research roles, and am open to product type. Any thoughts?
Isn't the UBS trading floor in Stamford, CT?
if you're open to different products and not 100% sure you want to work in equities, citi might be your best bet. UBS seems to be goign through an enormous amount of shit right now, and I would recommend doing a rotational program so you can get a good feel for various asset classes.
that said, if you had a major preference for equities, id go MS all day.
I'd avoid UBS. They have been and will be doing cutting in S&T. So I'm with leveRAGE. Citi's rotational program if you're not sure, Morgan Stanley if you know you really like equities.
Wells. For the stories.
UBS is in a really bad shape. Wells Fargo is not as "hype" as the 2 others.
So : - Citi if you are not sure you want equities - MS if you don't mind being in equities
Can someone do an internship in Equities and then leverage that experience/offer into FT in FICC at another bank?
Re OP, I would personally choose Citi.
I'm actually going through a similar dilemma, and am seriously considering Wells simply because of their growth potential.
I want to do equities and know that their equities floor in NYC is rather small but i can see that growing and from everyone i've talked to it seems that pretty much an overwhelming majority of S&T interns get offers, which is nice that i wouldn't have to worry about FT recruiting.
in that case you hadn't talked to people who were interns this past summer.
if last summer is any indication, this summer might be a rough one as well.
//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/sa-ft-offer-rates-way-down
I'd take Citi.
Thanks for all the help so far. I actually received another offer this morning from Goldman Sachs in Chicago for a rotational program internship, but at the Chicago regional office.
That said, I am leaning towards Citi in NYC or Goldman in Chicago,
Can anyone shed some light on the differences between working in a regional office VS. NYC, and the potential upside/downside to each?
GS Chicago will be more commodities heavy I'd imagine. Which is good with the Volcker rule coming in hot.
I would take Citi
Equities is lame, go for FICC.
MS or Citi.
Damn man your just raking in the offers. You must be one stud of a candidate
FYI Citi is 2 4 week rotations, not 3. At least that's how it was last year, and that translates to the full time programme as well (2 11-month rotations).
Help deciding SA offers (Originally Posted: 03/04/2013)
Hi all, I was wondering which of the 3 summer offers I should take:
1) HSBC Global Markets in NY (probably a trading desk)
2) an alternative assets investment firm with a little over 1B AUM, that's kind of a hybrid between private equity and real asset investing.
3) a private equity firm with 3B AUM, but with a sourcing model. Also no chance for full-time offers.
Which of the three would give me better exit opps? I am hoping to break into either BB IBD or a large PE firm for full-time next year.
I am concerned with: 1) HSBC's negative reputation here on WSO. How does a HSBC internship rank in comparison to MM banks and prestigious boutiques for FT recruiting? 2) Firm #2 is relatively unknown outside of their niche market. But upper management is pretty accomplished. 3) With a sourcing model, would I be learning any technical skills? Would I just be cold-calling companies?
Any help would be appreciated!
3>2>1
With no chance for FT offers? No way is 3 better than 2 or 1.
You have to understand the perceived rep of various shops on this forum is... not accurate to say the least. Take HSBC, do well, get a return offer and interview early at other banks for FT if you want to move.
I would take HSBC, without a doubt
Thanks all! I was leaning toward HSBC too, since it was the only shop in NY. Since they gave me the option to choose between sales, trading, and DCM, and I was leaning toward DCM, I was wondering how that compared to a trading desk in terms of FT recruiting. Again I am worried about the negative perceived rep of DCM here on WSO, but I realize it may not be entirely accurate.
Whiskey5 and BTbanker- how early should I interview with other shops? I've heard firms start FT recruiting in late August or early Sept but OCR doesn't begin until late-Sept/early Oct at my school. Should I reach out to alums at BBs way before that? The reason I am asking is because I missed out on first rounds at most BBs this year due to lack of networking.
Yup I'd take HSBC too.
Help me decide between summer internship offers, Thanks! (Originally Posted: 03/08/2013)
I just wanted the website's opinions on some summer internship offers:
An internship doing investment management at a Fortune 500 (think The Hartford, Eaton Vance) BB risk division (ranked the top in the industry: think Goldman, JPM) Credit Ratings agency (think S&P, Moody's)
I am leaning towards the BB risk internship, but I know it is considered MO. However, it does have the best compensation and a great hire back policy once I graduate.
In terms of exit ops, learning experience, and ability to move up, what do you guys think?
Thanks
You didn't mention in your post what it is that you want to do full time.
Sorry. I mean I want to ultimately be a part of a PE or HF firm. Honestly, I'm not sure as it is what I want to do. I just want to know what would provide the best potential opportunities.
Which Internship Offer would you Choose and Why? (Originally Posted: 05/20/2014)
I am a freshman at a Non-Target (Regional Target) looking to get a summer internship. Which of the following internships would you choose and why?
-Local IB boutique (provides strategic advisory, M&A and capital raising services to middle market companies) -Local Wealth Management Group (PWM boutique?) -Local PE Investment Firm (largest PE investment firm in my state with more than $120 million in equity capital under management [Is this a lot?]) -Local PE investment firm ($31 million in committed capital [Is this a lot?]) -Local Mortgage Bank (Paid) -BB PWM Local Branch (ML) -BB PWM Local Branch (UBS)
Thank you very much in advance.
This depends greatly on your experience at each place-what will they have you doing, what is the team like and will you be paid?
Gun to my head I pick the IB boutique though. Freshman year IB internships are exceedingly rare. Both of those PE funds are fairly small, but you'll likely get a more hands on experience.
Would shy away from the PWM unless the other three will have you running coffee and doing admin work.
Assuming the experience and knowledge gained at each was the same, which one looks better on paper (i.e. on my resume)?
What are you trying to get out of this internship? Do you already have an idea in which direction you'd like to develop your career? Just judging what could look good on paper I'd be torn between local IB boutique and BB PWM. The BB name can be quite helpful but from a learning perspective IB boutique could be better but if it's a 5-person shop nobody ever heard of it will be tough to make a strong argument about it. If USD120m is the biggest PE shop in your state, I wonder what state that is... At least for my standards that is not a lot at all. A decent PE firm should have at least USD300-500m AUM. Anything below is really small cap / growth equity / almost venture capital.
SA Offer dilemma: Picking bank that extended offer first? (Originally Posted: 02/22/2010)
Hi all,
Would definitely appreciate some input on my current situation.
I currently have IBD offers from two banks. Bank A is a stronger tier 1 bank but took 3 weeks to get back to me after superday. Bank B is a 2nd tier, up and rising bank that seemed to really like me--1st round interviewers emailed me to congratulate me for getting through 1st round, was really supportive and offered to help me prepare for final round, etc., So my question is, when it comes to group placement and selection, would I better off going to Bank B since there's a higher chance that i could get staffed with a top group?
Thanks!
Is Bank B, BarCap? hah
Yup.
Which place do you like better? Which place do you think will use you more and teach you more? Make the decision based on that. This is a SA position, you are looking for experience and a possible offer. I wouldn't let the time they took to get back to you as an indicator of interest or anything.
Yeah, BarCap, which essentially adopted Lehman's practices does the best job "courting" prospective bankers to their firm. They reach out after first round, hook you up with a mentor 1st year analyst from your school to prep you for the final round, give you a mentor during the final round process, one of my favorite banks culture wise. However, I'm assuming that the dilemma comes in because Bank A is most likely MS, due to the 3 weeks wait. That is a venerable investment bank the commands respect in the industry and in exit opportunities.
Group placement, most likely you will get one of your top three choices (90% get one of the top 3) so I wouldn't worry about that.
It's a tough call, go with your gut, judge by the people you met, look at which bank is the better in the group you want to join, if you want to go to buyside after, look at big PE/HF's and see where most of their hires come from, etc..
Congrats on the offers, either way, MS or BARC, you'll be fine.
x
3 BB SA Offers for 2011 - Help me pick! (Originally Posted: 01/10/2011)
I go to a non-target but through crazy networking and the help of some connections I was able to secure 3 SA offers in NYC for 2011.
Citigroup, Barclays Capital, and Deutsche Bank....
Which is best for my resume profile? They are all IBD offers...Since it is not through official OCR recruitment, they are not going to give me enough time to leverage for GS/MS offers etc
DB
Explain reasoning plz..
Not group specific? I'd pick based on people, and which you think you have the best odds of landing in a strong group.
Difference is marginal.
Since it was through alumni, are these group specific offers are you still have to do the placement day. I like Barcap, but Citi is very good.
I still need to go through placement day...
I heard getting into M&A at DB/Citi is going to be like winning the lottery so I wouldn't count on that lol
Citi > Barcap > DB
^ Agree with the above in general, but it depends on what group. Citi M&A, Industrials, etc is gold. Barcap Energy is gold, DB...I forgot off the top of my head but they have a couple very good groups.
is there a way you can leverage them against each other to get in the best groups
Depends on the group but in NYC I'd go for Citi or DB.
To answer the above, there is no way I can leverage for best groups at this point....
DB over Barclays? really?
Citi > Barcap > DB
DB is last for sure.
I'm so confused. I've always been under the impression that it was Barcap > Citi > DB (coming from a college junior). In the end it always comes down to group right? What are the best ones at DB?
DB Sponsors or Lev Fin.
DB M&A hasn't been great but their debt underwriting has been very strong. Sponsors and Lev Fin are great groups and they were #5 overall in total IB revenues for 2010. Not sure how much Citi has recovered but BarCap doesn't strike me as having a strong presence yet in the US. I think this comes down to the people and where you think you will be most successful
Barcap was #2 in U.S. M&A for 2010 (behind GS). Not that league tables matter much, but it destroys the argument that "they don't have a strong presence in the U.S." I would personally avoid Citi as they still have the stench of the bailout all over them; add their massive bureaucracy plus continuous exodus of senior talent to the mix and you have a recipe for mediocrity, at best. Citi has slipped over the course of 2010 and nothing really signifies that they're on the rebound yet.
DB has done well recently, but I don't know enough about them to give an educated view. I just know that a few years back their analysts weren't getting very good placement (pre-crash), so I doubt that things have changed significantly over the course of just a few years. In the end, a lot of placement comes from alumni links and DB simply doesn't have that presence on the buyside.
Barcap is no Lehman, but they've certainly hit their stride and seem to be on the rise. My friends there are very busy and in general love the culture. It has a similar feel to legacy Lehman and I think probably the best choice. If you're looking at success in the US, Barcap has trumped DB and Citi. Culture is also better. My view on brand is relatively uneducated, but I'd give the top spot to Barcap. I think your choice here is going to be down to DB vs. Barcap (whichever culture you like more, but I'd push you toward Barcap). Avoid Citi like the plague.
Source?
DB > BarCap > Citi
If you look at completed deals, they're #2. If you look at announced, they're #4 overall (behind GS, MS, JPM). DB and Citi don't go higher than #7 for either category.
See p. 7: http://online.thomsonreuters.com/DealsIntelligence/Content/Files/Global…
^Please dont give misguided information. Citi was no.2 in M&A completed in 2009 and "fallen" to no. 5, right behind JP Morgan, the horror.
DB has remained stagnant at no.8 but still a strong bank.
Barcap also fell from 8-10.
This is all worldwide.
In the US. Citi fell from 4-6 and Barcap rose 4-6, DB is lagging. Citi and Barcap are no. 5 and, pending groups, pretty equal.
Dont troll just because you work at Barcap please, I know everyone wants to make their bank the best.
I said U.S. specifically. I did not mention anything about worldwide performance. A poster above me said that they didn't have a strong U.S. presence and I showed him otherwise.
If you read my post history, it'll be clear that I don't work at Barcap or any other BB for that matter.
I ended up accepting Barcap - thanks all
hope that was good choice
Good luck. Try to get into Nat Res.
Citi.
Help choosing between SA offers (Originally Posted: 03/02/2012)
Hey guys,
I have offers between Chicago Trading Company and Belvedere Trading. Would love to know what you guys think; both are for summer analyst positions.
I don't know much about Belvedere, but I have heard good things about Chicago Trading as far employee happiness goes.
Haven't hear much about belvedere either. CTC is very well known and one of the best. Is this for Chicago?
Both are for Chicago. I'm most interested in retention rates from SA to FT, so if anyone with knowledge of that could weigh in, that'd be great. Thanks.
brah i think it's clear enough. Nobody here's heard of Belvedere, but CTC is a well known firm...
Which Internship? - Deciding between 2 offers (Originally Posted: 06/03/2012)
Hey,
I am stuck in deciding between these 2 summer internship offers: Marsh and Mclennan: Risk management division Price Waterhouse coopers: Audit division
The question is, which one of them is more likely to give me some experience related to IB, finance, or does it even matter at this stage?
Thanks
PWC is always a good choice if you have GS on your mind.
.
I would've thought Risk Management. I have always been told Job Description > Company.
Choosing between two SA offers, appreciate some help (Originally Posted: 02/27/2013)
Hi guys,
I've been reading the forum for a while. I have two SA offers in hand and need to make a choice by the end of this week. Would appreciate some advice/insight into which one would be most beneficial for me.
My goal: banking full-time out of ugrad (not picky between MM, elite boutique, or BB)
Offer 1: Niche boutique M&A firm in TMT space. Good dealflow, nice people, all the MDs are from BBs. Largely a no-name shop outside of its niche market though.
Offer 2: PE at firm with pretty good name and rep. Small teams so plenty of work.
I have yet to do a banking internship and am worried if I go into FT recruiting without banking on my resume I won't be taken seriously.
Thanks for all your help!
can you get a return offer at the PE firm? you definitely want to FT recruit with an offer in hand. if both have the potential for a return offer, choose the PE firm.
Agreed. Definitely go with where you think you'll land an offer. However if your considering staying in banking and dont plan to make the jump to p/e, then go with the M&A shop. Congrats on the offers though. High quality problem.
What cities are both of these offers in? If one is in New York and the other is in Boston, that's a factor to consider as well.
Regardless, I think the general consensus that you'll find on this forum is that actual banking experience will always trump an alternate experience (even if it's at a more well-known firm). If you're trying to leverage your summer for a shot at FT recruiting with a "better" firm, it will be advantageous to demonstrate that you've had the opportunity to actually experience the kind of work that's done at an analyst level in banking.
Additionally, what do you mean when you say that the M&A TMT firm doesn't have a name outside of its niche market? You could say that most people don't know Allen & Company or USA outside of the tech sector, yet both of these firms are still extremely highly regarded in IBD.
Just to answer a few questions that I should have addressed in my original post:
PE is in PA IB is in NY
Return offers are possible at both.
The IB is known in the space primarily because all the MDs have been on the sell-side at BBs forever before creating this MM firm. Dealflow primarily in telecom. To contrast this, the PE firm has a good global brand, it's definitely not on the level of BX/KKR/Carlyle, it focuses on growth equity as opposed to traditional LBO shops.
Thanks for the input so far, really appreciate the discussion. And yes, I'm happy I have this problem after a difficult recruiting season.
What's the growth prospects of the IB shop? If it's somewhere you'd want to return to after the summer then I'd go with that. IF you definitely plan to recruit FT for a better place after summer then I'd go IB if you think you'll get modeling experience or be placed in a good group. Else would do P/E shop for brand name...(you'll probably have a better summer in NYC though)
Additionally, I've heard that working in PE your junior year will look specious to some of the more douchy bankers for full-time recruiting, in a "This kid will most likely jump ship for buy-side as soon as he gets the chance" sort of way. Not sure how true that is, but I think it's definitely something to consider. On the other hand, working in investment banking and recruiting for it again full-time shows that you did the work over the summer, and despite having slogged it out for 10 weeks, still have a continued interest in it.
Can't really comment on the growth prospect but I know they're making a big push into hiring more junior level staff, currently the firm is very top heavy with MDs making up the majority of the firm so there's definitely opportunity to take on responsibility and work with senior mgmt. I guess when it comes down to it, I'm asking how much does brand matter and does it look weird/suspicious to go from PE to IB for FT?
After taking in all of your comments, definitely take IB. IB experience, good chance of return offer, sounds like a good place to land FT if that ends up being the case.
Thanks, I'm leaning towards banking as well, just worried that spending my junior year at essentially a no-name will make FT recruiting tough, even with return offer in hand.
Knowing nothing else, go with the bank. That said, think about which one you are likely to receive a FT offer from? Many PE shops do not hire straight from UG, so take that into mind -- might want to think about how you got the internship and whether or not it is a for real chance for FT employment (only you know this).
Regardless, I'm of the opinion that banking experience trumps all when recruiting for banking.
Sounds like the PE firm is SIG - heard good things about Susquehanna Growth Equity. However, in terms of optimal placement for FT recruiting, take the boutique offer.
Choosing Internship Offer. Help please! (Originally Posted: 03/24/2013)
I'm currently a sophomore evaluating two internship offers from boutiques in NY. One is a healthcare-focused bank and the other is tech-focused. I'm leaning most heavily towards recruiting for tech groups for junior year recruiting next year, so the tech-focused bank would seem to be the logical choice. However, there are other advantages to the healthcare offer (relatively large comp differences, location, culture, etc.) that I'm currently trying to sift through.
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on a) how advantageous it would be for junior year recruiting to have had tech banking experience as a sophomore, and b) how potentially disadvantageous it would be to have had HC experience as a sophomore and to have to explain the switch when trying to break into tech groups for next year.
I definitely want to try to make things as straightforward for myself for tech recruiting as possible, and I understand that my internships right now are solely about gaining experience. However, if both opportunities would set me up relatively equally well for the future, then it would make more sense to just go with the firm whose culture I fit in with more and who's compensation was better also.
Not exactly sure what to do, but would really appreciate any thoughts. Thanks very much.
What firms? Otherwise how the hell can we evaluate
The firms are relatively similar in terms of size, deal flow, and the overall amount of exposure I would get.
PM'ed you
As a sophomore I doubt you would get pigeon-holed into a specific group as long as you're not doing capital markets or public finance. I would actually take the HC one since you've listed it had better comparables overall and plus since you're only doing an internship you will learn a lot about something you don't know much about and don't need to continue it if you don't like it.
Not sure how relevant this is to you, but I had experience working in Oil & Gas at my first internship and when recruiting for my next internship my previous industry experience had little effect on what or how employers thought of me. My next internship coming from Oil & Gas was in Financial services and Healthcare.
healthcare, which actually should have a decent amount of medtech, HCIT in the MM space..
Having the names and descriptions of the firms would be great. Given that you have the offers, it doesn't really matter, does it...?
Not particularly, I'd just prefer to keep it private for identification reasons. Will PM you.
Just kidding, don't have enough banana points to PM. Will respond if you can PM me though. Would very much appreciate it.
Bump. Would appreciate any more thoughts
Deciding between SA(NYC) offers for 3 European Banks (Originally Posted: 02/09/2014)
I go to a target in the East Coast, and I have just finished OCR. I didn't make it to some of top tier BBs, but managed to secure offer from DB, UBS and Barclays. I understand that there has been much discussion on this topic, and I did use a search function, but if anyone could share their insight, it would be really appreciated.
Which groups? What are your career goals both short-term and long-term?
It's a generalist position, and I will be considering exit options at the end of the analyst cycle(PE, VC, etc.)
Throw UBS out.
If you think you can land DB Lev Fin FT, take that. Otherwise, I'd give Barclays the edge because industry groups do their own M&A there (iirc). But if you feel like you'd fit in better at one or the other, let that be the deciding factor.
Barclays and DB are beginning to do the cuts that UBS just finished doing... Especially Barcap, not sure if their short-term future looks too strong in terms of receiving a return offer.
I would take Barclays since you want to go into PE/VC and the industry groups do their own M&A. Since it's a SA position, you can always try to lateral into another BB after summer.
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