New guy, leaving at 5 because I don't have anything to do. MD is pissed.

Leave. Why would you want to work for someone like that? Im all about the hustle but wow that guy needs to look in the mirror and ask himself why he isn’t generating enough deal flow to keep the team busy… maybe ask him that?

coming from another angle, leaving aside whether or not you should or shouldn’t be allowed to leave and whether boomers gonna boom etc. I think your response was not thought through and you didn’t play the game right.
 

You should’ve just told him he was right and that it wouldn’t happen again etc. At the minimum you would’ve appeased him and shown you understand chain of command and that you have an ego small enough that you can deal with this stuff (even if unreasonable). You can then decide if that’s a place you want to work for but that’s separate

Disagree strongly.   Our new analysts leave at 5 during the ramp up period until they start getting staffed on deals that make them busy. No one cares.

I'm at a top group at a bb.

Forget about this joker place op.   "Not acceptable to leave before 9" wtf.  Most teams at my bb analysts leave around 7 and go wfh.

Why does the md care? Most mds are leaving by 6 anyways.....how would he even know?  Such a strange thing for an MD to be involved in or care about.  This is obviously a bucket shop chit bank.

Look to lateral asap.  Also name and shame.

Dude, you did this ALL wrong.

While at a lot of firms it is acceptable to leave early during the onboarding process, it is not acceptable at all firms. It's fine that you didn't know this (sort of) - as others have mentioned, you should have stuck around and reviewed previously created decks and models to get up to speed as to how your firm does things.

What is totally not acceptable is when your MD called you into his office and told you that you've been leaving too early, that you didn't immediately apologize but instead gave him what appeared to be a lot of attitude. You basically questioned his intelligence, which no person, let alone the person who will likely have a lot of feedback on your performance and bonus, would appreciate. You should have just said "I'm very sorry, and I definitely understand this for the future." Instead, you tried to sound like a smart ass and pushed back as the literal newest person on the team who is the biggest unknown.

If I were you, I'd try to catch him in his office in the morning or at some point during the day when it's a bit slower for him, and apologize for how things went and that you'd be sure to course correct. You want to get back on the right track with him, and showing that you're capable of taking in criticism, rather than being reactionary to it, is something that he will likely appreciate.

I’m not gonna agree or disagree, since people here make good points for each side.

One crucial thing though: did you check with the other juniors on how this was gonna be perceived ? Did all of the guys you asked said “it’s totally fine, go home and relax while you can”?

If I’m reading it right it sounds like you prorated the tasks evenly across the week, allowing you to leave early each day. I think that’s the issue. You shouldn’t leave early if you know there’s still work left to do. In other words, you should stay later and finish the tasks in 2-3 days rather than purposefully drawing them out as long as possible just so you can leave early. Just cause someone says By Friday doesn’t mean you’re not supposed to finish earlier if possible. 

Best piece of advice I got from a mentor when I used to be an uppity analyst was the industry is not going to change culture just for you. If you feel like the industry culture should change, you are not going to be the person to do it so either suck it up or leave.

I wouldn’t want to work with you because your judgment seems awful.

I don’t care about face time, but others do. And this is a historically employer-friendly market. Why not learn the drill before ditching at 5pm? My assistant stays later than that while adding way more value.

Whatever. Your MD convo is what catapulted this story into the twilight zone. Pushing back in that situation with such laughable arguments (lol fuck your progress on your self-imposed schedule) was a poor choice. he just told you face time matters. You needed to promise to do better and then either figure out how to improve your WLB there or plan a lateral move. This isn’t the 2021 labor market.

I don’t know if they’ll fire you ASAP, but first impressions are nearly impossible to shake. I doubt you have a long, happy tenure there.

I blame them for hiring you almost as much as your judgment. Why do interviews if they can’t suss out such a massive cultural incompatibility?   

Your logic isn't incorrect, but if that's going to be your attitude, you should pick a different line of work.

 "I know IB is notoriously toxic, but this is insane."

It's really not. Outsiders only think it is because of comments like yours, but (almost) everyone in the industry knows the deal. You get paid fairly large sums of money to perform a fairly non-technical job, at the expense of longer hours. We're not paying you, a fresh college grad, double the compensation of the average corporate worker, for your genius brain. Leaving at 5 everyday for a week straight is pretty outrageous considering there's a lot that can be learned in your first week.

Who cares if you're done with your task? Go ask your boss for another, or learn about your firms processes, so you won't waste my time teaching you later. As a junior, your boss was simply telling you that face time matters, and instead of nodding and agreeing, you decided to be disrespectful and talk back. And you're surprised he's angry? Sometimes you just have to suck it up, and go with the culture. It's why Wall Street has had a preference for athletes in the past, or ivy league kids who understand the grind. 

Anybody who disagrees with this opinion hasn't actually worked in the industry, or will soon be phased out, like yourself. No wonder you work in boat M&A. 

Did you check in with all your managers to see if it was okay / check if there's anything you can assist with before leaving?

This guy is in his first week and left at 5pm every day 😂 If I was your boss I’d fire you

The losers in this thread saying your boss is right ain’t gonna make it. Monkey see monkey do mfs 

Learn to play politics bud. This isn’t the way. You may think you don’t need too and your work product will take care of itself…you would be incorrect. 
I have 3 words for you that my father wisely imparted on me about work after I complained to him or told him what was going on:

Play The Game 

always stuck with me, and believe me, he was right 

If you truly had nothing else to do then you should have used the time studying and learning, or going to the senior team members and asking where else you could be helpful. Simply asking the analyst is a cop out. If they are working to late hours and they see some new junior walk out every day at 5 you're damn right they will be pissed off. Why isn't that guy proactively coming to help them for F's sake. Your attitude was totally wrong and you're asking to get fired.your attitude doesn't just signify, a sense of entitlement. It also signifies that you are not the proactive type of employee or team player that people want to work with. if you want to do this job, then really do this job. If you find yourself with free time, when other people are working their ass off, then you go talk to them and ask how you can help them. That's what teammates do.

I tell the interns to at least wait until 7pm or when MDs leave. Very poor decision because it shows you don’t get it. This industry is all about optics. As someone who just started, you should have coffee with a senior analyst and ask about the office expectations before you make decisions like this. Unfortunately your team assumes you know this from the internship.

It's wild to see people defending the OP here. While MD is a complete douchebag, giving him a passive aggressive response isn't the best way to go here. You basically challenged his judgement with your attitude. Why don't you start your own investment bank or simply quit if you don't agree with your MD? No one is forcing you to be there. 

Based on how you describe the situation I'm not sure you handled it perfectly. As others are mentioning, this is your first week and you haven't done your proper DD on working expectations in your firm.

Even though you disagree with the working expectations, you have every incentive in the world to maintain a good first impression with your MD. My advise would be to swallow your pride and apologize to your MD (even though you disagree) and show your commitment for doing a good job.

From your MD's perspective, he would probably expect you to read up and try to learn as much as possible from previous decks/ models etc. even though you have completed your tasks for the day - especially since this is your first week. In general, and especially as a newcomer, the attitude that "I can leave as soon as I'm done with my tasks" is viewed as very passive: There is always something you can do. 

I personally agree that face time in general is a negative concept in IB. However, it varies across firms/ cultures. You should have done your research of what to expect in advance. It's completely fair that you don't like to work in such an environment and it doesn't mean your a bad/ sloppy employee. However, it means that you're probably not a good fit for this firm and perhaps for IB in general. You should take this as a valuable lesson to do your research in advance on working expectations.

Wish you good luck!

I calmly explained to I him that I didn't have anything to do and asked if he wanted me to just waste my time if there legitimately wasn't anything I could do. 

Never ask an asshole MD this question. Blame the staffer or your analyst, but never try to be smart with an MD.    

As a fresh analyst you have to play the game at your shop whether it is toxic or not. From there you can either play the game well and try to lateral, or leave. You don’t want to trend towards being fired from your first analyst role.

That being said, I’m sorry you are dealing with this and not all teams are like this as mentioned in other comments.

If the MD was commenting on your behavior, then you are likely not doing what is expected or what all the other analysts and associates are doing. The hours in IB are notoriously long.  Where do you think the hours are coming from?  You stay late nights at the office. You work weekends. Face time matters. If this is not for you, then GTFO ASAP.  Other industries don’t work this way, but IB does. Most groups anyways. 

As a junior anywhere - your primary job is to learn. That job isn’t done unless you are productive as the most productive analyst on the team.

And the best way to learn is by reviewing other people’s work. Saying you’re done with your work at 5 is bullshit. You’ve got tons to do. You know nothing!

I don’t think anyone care tbh if you leave at 6pm or 7pm. I have been working for last two years in EB in London and never had any issues leaving early.

Damn and I thought I was ballsy for leaving at 8 every night if there was no work. 

Your MD is a dick and super old school, but he's not entirely wrong. As others have stated, there are certain rules, and you have to play the game for now. 

Unfortunately, part of the IB job description is making MD happy. When MD is happy, he sells more deals, firm gets more money, juniors get more bonus. When MD is pissed, he can’t focus on selling deals, firms get less money, juniors get no bonus. That’s how things work, honey.

At the end of the day, both sides are somewhat justified. For the OP, yes, on one hand, if you finish your work and have nothing else to do, why not leave? The culture of facetime is eroding, people are WFH, I understand where you're coming from, especially as a Gen Z employee. Modern workplaces, tech companies, etc would embrace this and even some banks as well. I don't think it's uncommon at all for analyst/associates during their training periods to be pretty much 9-5 for the 8 weeks or so they're training until they get staffed up. With that said, banking is still banking, you're not at a tech company, and while there might be a handful of very progressive boutique shops, I would anticipate that your'e there to work like a banker. You're also an analyst and even though your "work" is done, there's plenty for you to learn from going through old materials, brushing up on your excel/PPT skills, hell, you want to do PE in the future? Switch to a banking group that isn't focused on watersports...start prepping for interviews, it's a great time to ramp up and frankly I'd be grateful for a boutique firm that doesn't throw you right into the fire. 

Your MD is likely a bit of an ass and it sounds like the firm might be a little more old school, but with that said, most investment banks aren't letting people leave at 5pm, even if there's nothing going on, especially the untenured analysts. I think you need to read the room a bit and 1. Probably just suck it up and do a little extra facetime for the first few months 2. Understand how the game is played in banking. Personally, if I were your MD, I'd probably be pissed too, it shows a lack of motivation on your end. Again, if the culture seemed super chill and the office was empty at 5pm, then I think you're safe to leave, but man, week 1, full office, you're the first one out? I don't care if you're an analyst or a Partner, if I'm new to a job, I want to show that if nothing else, I'm there to hustle and work.

So yea, if I were you, I'd go and apologize to the MD, say there was a misunderstanding and that you're committed to the firm and hope that the miscommunication isn't reflective of the excitement you have for the work and your willingness to work hard if needed. And then I'd make sure for the next 3 months that you're FILO'ing it (first in last out) regardless of what you have going on. 

At the end of the day, banking is mostly attitude and work ethic you can kind of suck at your job, but if you're grinding and trying, you'll probably be fine. Even if you're god's gift to banking, if you're a smartass analyst, you're not going to go far. Take it as a lesson learned and keep your head down.

Ya dude, you screwed up. It’s BS but you’ve got to stay past at least the frickin MD and show an interest in the space. People get fired for far less so if you’re rolling in and immediately acting like your time is more valuable than anyone else’s then don’t be surprised when they go find someone who is more a team player.

Finance (IB, PE, HF, etc) is a team sport. Let’s use baseball for example. You’re a pitcher that just called up to the next level. You show up, unpack your stuff in your locker, go play catch tor a minute and then say “alright y’all I’m out, see you tomorrow” while you’ve got the rest of the pitchers either throwing bullpens, playing long toss, icing up/getting treatment, in the weight room, etc. You’ve got to fall in and at least go hit the weights for a bit man. If you don’t then your ass is getting cut before you get into a game.

You also aren’t just pissing off the MDs, you’re probably making your peers mad too. Just because you asked if you could help and they said no doesn’t mean they’re not holding it against you. You’ve got to learn about the business and grab dinner with the team, assuming y’all order in. Get to know your other analysts, they’ll be bitching for most of it but that’s fine because you’ll learn who you should look out for and will understand the office dynamics better. And by the way you can do that and peace out at 8pm after the seniors are out and no one will care.

OP - as others have mentioned, you're just asking for it by leaving at 5pm everyday, especially as the new guy. Doesn't matter if you're done with your work or not. Understandably that may not make sense a lot of people but this is how it works in the industry. It's your choice whether or not you want to deal with that or leave the industry, no one is forcing you one way or another. I understand it's not for everyone.

Not everyone is built for that corporate facetime office politics bullshit. You did the right thing, but you're in the wrong environment for all that. Personally, I think more like OP, and I found out pretty fast that I'm unemployable in firms like that because that type of bullshit just eats away at my soul. If I'm efficient and finish my work early, I'm not going to want to sit at my desk and jerk off all night because it looks good in the office. I rather workout, work on a side hustle, get laid, sleep, sleep, idk maybe sleep. People like OP are going to have trouble in banking. Thankfully, there's like a million ways to make money. You'll find your way.

Idc what line of work you are in, you cannot talk back to an MD in your first week. You will not survive any corporate environment with that level of arrogance.

I feel like every time I go on this forum, there is a new low in terms of interns...

Your attitude is problematic in this line of work. You should change attitude or industry.

I agree with you that it is completely retarded for you to sit around for hours doing nothing just to keep the appearance up, but I'm afraid that is how banking works. First of all, it's an industry where you are expected to be available until at least midnight. Secondly, it does not sit well with people that are working past midnight when the new guy leaves at 5 pm. 

Be in the office until at least 11 pm, at least during your first few months. If you leave before midnight, make sure you ask everyone that you're working with if there is anything you can do to help. There will be downtime, so use it wisely and try to learn during that time. Play around with the model, go through previous decks to learn what happened on the project before you joined, read news, read up on the industry etc. Once you have spent all your time in the office for a few months / your first year, you can start slipping away if there is nothing to do but you need to handle it in a better way. 

Rather than saying you are done for the day and you're heading home, you make up an excuse if it's very early. If you're leaving at 5pm, you say that you have a delivery at 6 pm and will switch to home office. Of course, you will be available from home office the entire night and your colleagues just need to call you or shoot a message if they need anything from you. Make sure that you are also online on teams until midnight or so, even if you're not working. If you're done a bit later (after 8-9 pm), there is no need to make up an excuse, you can just say you're switching to home office and stay online. 

To be honest, you messed up badly by mouthing against the MD. You are not wrong, but it's a question of attitude. Banking is extremely hierarchical and going against your seniors in that fashion is never a good idea. If I were you, I would push a few really hard nights to make sure people view you as a hard worker. Make sure to take on a lot of work so that you have to push a few nights until 4-6 am. Make sure this is seen by sending out the product right before you leave etc. Make sure that your work is high quality so that the assoc / VP on your team likes you. 

After building up the rep with the team in the fashion mentioned above (should just take 1-2 weeks), set up coffee chats with some of your VPs. If everything feels good, ask them for advice on how to handle the situation with the MD. Information in banking is shared much more widely than you know and people see more than you think. If you do a really good job, the information will reach the MD. I would also highly recommend that you (after asking your VPs for advice) in some type of way apologize / solve things directly with the MD. Otherwise, the two of you will always have a very awkward relationship and that will create a lot of issues for you.

Unfortunately, it sounds like your MD is an old school retard but sometimes you have to go along to get along and just play the game.