Terrible Boutiques Megathread
What are some terrible boutiques you've heard of? Just want to stay vigilant, no harm intended.
ALSO, pls link any previous threads for specific boutiques
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Career Resources
Tobin. And. Co.
Capstone Headwaters. Shitty Denver boutique
really?
are they really that shitty?
Word on the street is that they pay is trash. But I have spoken to some people over there and they have this weird system where there are some directors that are independent that operate under the Capstone name. These "independent directors" pay their own analyst and pay is just variable on these teams.
However they are building out a core team. Like an actual banking division and this team is actually structured like a MM firm. Cannot confirm pay for this team.
Also there are worse banks in Denver.
Sick,
just reached out to an MD there. Really sets a positive mood moving forward.....
any groups in particular at Capstone that you prefer to others?
A lot of MD's operate independently so experience and comp varies if you join an industry team. Denver & Boston are where the 'core' teams sit.
The easiest way to think about it is that, to a degree, the teams outside of Denver & Boston are basically their own boutiques that also operate under the Capstone Headwaters brand. Denver and Boston offices are generalist and comparable to a smaller MM firm outside of NYC/SF (Cascadia, Harris Williams). Comp is weighted a bit more towards bonus, but all-in is comparable.
They regularly hire strong senior bankers from other shops and just hired the head of consumer & retail from Stephens.
they are NOT in the same stratosphere as HW
LOL @ comparable to HW
Found the CSHW employee
Their VPs are on average like 40+ years old...
https://capstoneheadwaters.com/team/charlotte-franson
Cowen
???
Don't get why people white knight this bank. Mediocre coverage groups except for maybe hc, but all that group does is mid market biotech ecm which is a great way to shoot yourself in the foot for exits. Also, people who I talked to who are going to Cowen tend to be really defensive and over hype their bank.
I mean ECM is their bread for HC but they do get M&A advisory mandates, however in the M&A space they do perform worse than most HC focused boutiques and other MM banks. I had heard that they were trying to build out their M&A practice similar to how Leerink has been, but I think they have been less successful so far. That being said, they are def not in the same boat as other banks mentioned here by any means.
Greenhill
Why?
.
following
Ducera
maybe not what they used to be... but still a very solid shop
I’m just waiting for my place to pop up. Pray for me monkeys
Aquaa Partners - ridiculous boutique in London
What's that about - I got messaged about a role to join as an analyst there too then quickly noped the fuck out of there after doing some research on the MD
You made my fucking day bro
C-could you please elaborate??
what about him?
^
Curious to know more if you can elaborate.
NYIC. Their PR account is gona come chasing after me now
Facts theyre weird af
RBC
DB
Decision Point Advisors
Care to elaborate?
Recommenting since notifs are back. Care to elaborate?
Wtf is that shitty name
Why do you say this?
following
Brown Gibbons Lang has a pretty bad culture
Cleveland or Chicago?
Both
BGL Cleveland is one of the worst investment banks to work for in the country
I have heard better things about chicago than cleveland but yeah it’s not great there regardless
Wso is just getting so savage with gen z 😂😂😂
That’s what we’re here for
tobin
So, could anyone elaborate on anything so there aren't just rumors spread?
Nobody gets notifications rn so they don’t ever come back to the thread
Front court NJ. Not at all investment banking as they claim, job sucked and was hardly compensated (less than what I could make waiting tables or mopping floors)
was it just cold calling?
PCE Investment Bankers
SDR ventures in Denver.
Elaborate?
I’m curious as well
for some reason it posted my elaboration above.
Lets just acknowledge that most firms in Denver are not going to be very good. This is one of the ones that strikes me as being particularly poor. They had a posted 2019 stats book and total the firm did $340m in closed deal value. This was across 14 (3 were under LOI) deals and they have 8 directors. And if I remember correctly, I heard through the grape vine that 2019 was a record year for them. These are just below average numbers overall.
I also heard they dick people over on pay. but that seems to be a common theme in Denver banks.
Would be curious if anyone can speak to anything above (2019 record year, low pay)?
I don't think these are bad #s. ~8 MD/director lvl + ~6 juniors. Avg deal size of ~$25M and ~2 closed deals per MD/director. If they charge $1M flat fee (in all likelihood, will be greater) in fees for the year, that's $14M. Pretty typical regional boutique.
Curious to hear what you mean by "dick people over". Lower compared to NYC? 100%. Lower compared to other Denver boutiques? Possible. Lower compared to prior years when 2019 was a record year? Red flag.
I would imagine lifestyle for an average Denver firm is great though...
.
AGC Partners in Boston - Total sweatshop with mandatory weekend/vacation hours
100% agree. They do have somewhat ok deal flow but culture is just pathetic and pay and bonus is below market.
Edgemont - heard they underpaid for long hours and laid off half their analysts at the start of the pandemic.
Can confirm that they are all around pretty bad.
A friend of mine works at AGC and can confirm that the above statement is inaccurate.
Multiple people I went to school with either interned or worked with them and they would all assume that the CEO made you write this comment. The mandatory hours are 100% accurate unless it changed in literally the last couple months.
Everyone knows AGC is dogshit
There is one in Chicago...if you know, you know.
Lincoln International
https://news.efinancialcareers.com/us-en/320584/junior-banker-dies-lincoln-international
I interned for LI this summer and actually had a very positive experience.
No, this bank didn't kill anyone, but they really do exemplify everything about a terrible dime store boutique.
Is this website suppose to be good for getting jobs? I think I've seen it once or twice, but never gave it an extended look.
Blackmore?
No quite.
Alpha Capital Holdings, Inc.
Instead of paying you for the internship, they have YOU pay THEM. What a joke.
That's fucked. I even think paying interns minimum wage is fucked.
no way this is true... source?
can confirm this is true. know a few people who paid to be a part of their "training program" in their freshman or sophomore year and got a legit IB internship for their junior year. not the worst thing in the world for people who are having trouble finding boutiques to pad their resume for upcoming recruiting, and they do have some kind of course or curriculum in place for the interns, but I don't know what it's like being a full time analyst for them and I do think they take advantage of IB hopefuls (especially ones from mainland china who will have an extremely hard time breaking into IB given how few sponsored spots are available)
Holy shit that bank is horrendous. Half of their "deals" are from the 90s!
DA Davidson is terrible. 1st year analysts with $80k all-in comp, associates getting screwed with ~$30k bonuses... & they expect 80-110 hour weeks out of everybody lol. Nightmarish old-school management with no bulge bracket experience that thinks everyone is overpaid.. they scream at juniors for leaving during/after their analyst stint w/ bonus clawback threats.
Interesting ... I don't work at Davidson, but I have heard very opposite things from a friend that does. Can confirm that their Bonus were shit this year, but covid did the fucking there. Have heard the hours are bad.
What you heard about culture could be true - but very group dependent. Having said that, bonus sucks and hours are pretty bad across the board. Bonus has sucked pretty much every year. Some top-ranked Associates were paid $30k bonuses last year at the peak of a bull market. D.A. Davidson runs pretty lean. At the end of the day.. if you don’t get paid and work shit hours, it’s tough to have high morale and good culture. Even if the folks around you are decent otherwise.
BNP Paribas lol
What's bad about BNP? I've heard many people say it was the best of all the French banks, with work life balance being pretty good for being in banking, in addition to getting good compensation + lots of vacation days and interesting work.
It has an extremely bad culture + even if the is the best French bank, it's still bad lmao
Not an investment bank but rather a "PE" firm, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention Blackmore Partners
I've met people who work there. The horror stories seem to be true.
There is an old thread on hear about them that is an absolute banger
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/blackmore-partners-chicago-knowledge-about-them
H.C. Wainwright?
mixed bag. lot of small time ecm and very aggressively positive equity research. not the worst place but I think there are better. no shade.
These folks actually don't pay their interns lol. Not sure how that's legal.
Dresner Partners in Chicago
Any insight? I had some long discussions with them which ended up amounting to getting ghosted but didn't see any red flags in my multiple discussions.
Pretty surprised my firm hasn't come up here yet lmao
FT?
Goldman Sachs - Salt Lake City
Must be pretty terrible if it doesn't even exist anymore
Goldman Sucks In Every City
BDA Partners
Hahaha pray tell is there a story here
also interested
They most often don't build sophisticated models in-house, and their main operation is in Asia. From my understanding, the US office works as a sourcing office with near to zero actual banking exposure. They pay significantly less compare to the street, and hours are terrible.
Loving the anonymous replies here....
Stratton Oakmont seems to be a pretty sketchy place heard bad things
fr, someone should make a movie about the shit that goes on there
FT Partners - culture still as toxic as ever ive heard
Agree. Interviewed there and seemed like a prison with a nice view.
You just described 90% of corporate america
Ducera Partners
BMO Capital Markets
Lazard NYC. Have known two analysts who were so burned out and disillusioned by their experience that they left finance altogether.
That’s every bank.
Berkery, Noyes & Co - heard this place is horrible to work for. MDs (if you can call them that) take any possible crap deal with min fees as low as $500K. No real analyst roles (associates apparently do the modeling) and everyone is significantly underpaid (associates below ~$100K salary).
Heard similar things from an analyst that left last year, juniors are severely overworked and underpaid
Really, Greenhill, FT Partners, Ducera, Lazard NYC are all terrible boutiques?
This has officially turned into what boutique rejected you for a summer internship.
I think it's mainly just a culture-based thread...but yes i do agree it's straying away from what it was intended to be.
found the FTP rat. Curious to know how many would actually throw such a niche bank like FTP and Ducera in with more well-known banks like Greenhill and Lazard
Try again. Looks like we found the kid who interned at Lazard NYC and has a complex about it.
I'm just waiting for the Blackmore unpaid interns to come on here and defend them like in that previous thread.
I love Blackmore Partners. I will sacrifice my life for Blackmore Partners.
Pierce & Pierce
Wtf is that shit
Come on bro, culture yourself
Disagree. Hear everybody there can get reservations to Dorsia and have sick business cards.
Sidwell Investment Group
Saw a new associate get yelled at by an MD, "All you've done is hit singles, and I need a goddamn home run!" Analyst later got fired. I think the guy was from law, he couldn't crack it as an ibanker.
Always thought it was funny how in the show they call themselves "investment bankers" yet also say they work at a "hedge fund" but operationally, SIG acts more like a PE shop.
Damn, that exactly what I was thinking when I watched that season
Heard they hire people that are frauds - no background check whatsoever. 100% stay away from this firm
Multi National United
Severallllll boutiques in Canada are basically boiler rooms where they hire people to cold call small businesses and try to get them to sell.
Harvey and Co pretends to be a M&A shop when in reality all you do is cold call companies asking if they wana be sold and make 35k a year.
how are the hours?
Good call. All of these buy side brokers are complete trash.
Oh god - had to do that for my first internship in a small M&A boutique (Europe). Was awful but managed to leverage it up for something better.
Odyssey Capital in HK
Momentum cyber
Tell more? Have seen lots of kids w internships here
Why do you say that? Lots of Berkeley kids intern there
They don't promote anyone or provide junior bankers with a meaningful deal experience to exit to buy-side. Your option quickly becomes limited to cybersecurity corp dev at best.
Exactly this. Spend most of the time putting together worthless marketing materials than doing actual deals.
Agentis Capital in Canada. Culture.
They do have a strong team. Worked with them once.
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