It's like anything else, majority of people dont want to work long banking hours. Big 4 accounting provides an okay living and wlb (barring busy season). I also think the personalities of accountants are a bit different than bankers.

 

I've done 4 years in B4 audit and 4 years in BB IB.

Comparing busy season hours and workload (even if you're staffed on a 6/30 YE client) in the Big 4 aren't anywhere close to an average 3 month period in banking - its apples-to-oranges. Busy season is like eating a wedding cake between 12 people and you get 2 - 3 months to do it. Live bilateral negotiations (or some other equivalent) in banking is like having to eat Derrick Henry (alive) and by yourself.

Give me a single competent IB analyst and the two of us would get a FYE audit done in 2 weeks tops. Probably earlier if there are no misstatements or control failures.

 

WLB in accounting never existed for people I knew. It makes no sense IMO to do accounting when you get paid crap, exit opportunities aren't great, MBAs and the industry as a whole also look down on the profession.

I think it also comes down to will I hire an accountant, or another banker looking to switch banks with the relevant skillset and will be able to hit the ground running from day one. 

 

If you’re going into ER and M&A I would argue that you would be a pretty competitive candidate if you had a CPA and did the CFA while working as an accountant for a few years.

 
Mr.Robot

It's like anything else, majority of people dont want to work long banking hours. Big 4 accounting provides an okay living and wlb (barring busy season). I also think the personalities of accountants are a bit different than bankers.

I can tell you for a fact, in Big 4, you can work just as much (maybe not on average, but when its bad, it is worse than banking if you can believe that) for a legit fraction of the pay.  You also can have terrible travel too and daily working conditions are usually pretty bad. That also doesn't account for clients who aren't trilled to have you around.

 

Fr? B4 accounting immediately screams 'sweatshop'. Those poor fuckers work banking hours (then again, usually less than full-blown Moelis hours) for accounting pay. There's a huge accountant shortage due to this very reason - B4 bending over backwards to entice accounting graduates.

Personalities of accountants diff from bankers, yes. Usually pretty chill and laid back people

 
Most Helpful

Before I transferred to a target everyone at my state school was jerking themselves off to accounting/the Big 4 (mainly audit & compliance, getting your CPA, and getting MBAs right out of or very shortly after undergrad - these were a big deal in their culture) because they genuinely thought this was the pinnacle of prestige, comp, and finance because these were the best companies that would come recruit at the school. Having someone who got an internal audit internship at EY Houston act like he's the shit and literally walk differently because of it is cringe to witness (maybe its more cringe that before I knew better I too wanted that role). They had no idea of the concept of IB or anything else, I'd feel sorry for them if they weren't such assholes. Target kids who got MF PE jobs out of college had smaller egos than the state school Deloitte SOx compliance intern did. It is just a very weird phenomenon to witness firsthand, a sociological wonder some might say. In my experience I've also noticed the interviewers/alumni campus reps for these roles have been more gate-keepy than those for high finance roles, just a weird vibe showing overall lack of self-awareness or awareness of the landscape overall. 

Anyways this got derailed, my point was that those are the only companies that recruit at some schools, so many Big4 people simply don't know what else is out there because this is the best option that has ever been described to them or presented to them by their university. 

It wouldn't be out of turn to say this is a failure on the part of the university faculty, but ultimately the school is going to foster the deepest relationships with the companies that are hungriest for their specific student demographic at large because placement makes the university looks good. Sure you can have Ares go recruit at 'Bama but if year after year they're not taking anyone the university isn't going to see that as a symbiotic relationship. Ultimately its a game theory thing, its like dating, companies and universities match in the most mutually beneficial way.

Universities don't look out for students, they look out for statistics

 

I believe the below pic is the phenomenon/term u r looking for? Essentially, each social class of people is stuck in their own bubble/cave. For example, those no-name state school kids thinking they're the shit for heading into HR/compliance at Big 4 probs look the same way at lower-class kids who think becoming a drug cartel manager or pimp is the pinnacle of life ("the streets) the way we look at these middle/lower-middle class suburb kids. 

DK effect

 

This might be the most accurate comment I’ve ever read on this forum.

Big 4 kids oddly cocky at my UG as well, they had no idea what IB or PE is and that it pays 3-5x more.

My guess is there are way more accounting seats, schools push these jobs, and IB and Big4 accounting recruiting don’t always overlap at schools… for example: don’t see many Ivy League auditors

As someone who went Acc -> MBA -> IB, you are learning a compliance skillset in public accounting. It’s outsourced SEC or IRS compliance work.

 

for example: don't see many Ivy League auditors

"Deloitte is more selective than Harvard!" yet no one from Harvard goes to Deloitte.

Jokes aside congrats on what you've achieved. I too had "Big4 dreams" when I first began to learn about finance as I thought that this was the way, especially since they had such a presence at our school both with regards to recruiting and reputation according to our faculty and alumni.

Do you feel your Big4 job was loosely endorsed or pushed by your school and peers in UG? Was that option of working in accounting a common goal amongst those at your school? Did you learn about IB later during UG/post-grad?

 

I initially majored in finance (unranked small uni) but was pressured to double major in accounting because that's "where all the jobs are."

I looked at finance students graduating and they were mostly selling annuities to elderly so I drank the accounting kook-aid. About 6 months into my public accounting stint I stumbled upon a comp thread on this forum and it changed my life. Why were people my age making 5x what I was making? Is a different financial services profession really that much better? Yes. Began pivoting my career from that moment on to go the post mba finance route. Landed at EB. Best career move I will probably ever make. Glad it all worked out.

 
Controversial

You think only big 4 kids have dunning-kruger effect but ivy league kids who is studying gender studies and are told they are perfect for banking do not have dunning-kruger effect? A non-target who studied finance and accounting is not prepared for banking but a target school kid who studied liberal arts and has never used excel is prepared for banking? 

There are Big 4 kids who have transferred to banking but it is just not popular because when people leave the big 4 they want less hours. Big 4 does have similar exit opps as banking, such as corp dev, even PE, as well as corporate controller, cfo path, or something unrelated to finance and accounting. People go to the Big 4 to get their CPA, so they can have job security and a cushion if they were to pursue a more volatile career like banking. Outside of NYC, people do not care where you went to school, but they do care what you majored in. Even high finance careers outside of NYC would rather have a Big 4 CPA than a Princeton English major. 

Target kids are even more clueless about banking than accountants. They are told they are going to an intellectual think tank. Recruiters tell them they can learn in 5 weeks what an accountant learned in 4-5 years. That is the biggest bullshit I have ever heard. People who say that do not know anything about finance, accounting, banking, excel. These are not hard, but it takes time to understand the concepts. Those who have an accounting background already know these concepts. 

One more thing, Harvard kids do not go to Deloitte because they are not qualified to go to Deloitte. Deloitte hires mostly CPA eligible grads so they can charge clients more. Harvard does not have accounting.  

 

One more thing, Harvard kids do not go to Deloitte because they are not qualified to go to Deloitte. 

You had me until this troll, nicely done.

I agree with you. I think anyone majoring in gender studies no matter what school they hail from is not someone who is prepared for much. 

-No one said "only big 4 kids have dunning-kruger ".
-No one said state-schoolers are losing jobs to ivy students who have never touched excel, I'd be shocked to find that someone who has never touched excel is getting a job.
-To say "Target kids are even more clueless about banking than accountants" is an intellectually dishonest generalization that has high potential to be false

You are the only one who has said these things frankly and it is coming off as bitter 

 

That is not a troll. To get hired in audit or tax at the Big 4, you have to have 150 credits all together and a certain amount of accounting credits that are not offered at places like Harvard or Princeton. So the Big 4 does not actively recruit from Harvard. They go to places were the students can sit for the CPA. Just look it up.

I also hate when non-targets shit on their own school and other non-target schools but worship target schools and target grads. As someone who has worked in banking and worked with plenty of incompetent target grads, that worship is not justified.  

 

No one is saying that non-target/target school kids are of better or worse quality than each other, only you are making sort of comparison. Anyone who judges someone solely on the basis of target/non-target needs help. 

Also, by your logic, wouldn't tons of Wharton kids or other top-tier schools who do have finance/accounting curriculum be at these Big 4 then? They simply are not choosing these unless it is as a backup option. I'm not exactly hearing all my UChicago friends talk about how excited they are for accounting recruiting. 

The reality is that IB is unique in that it is a competitive and high paying role that doesn't require too many skills. You don't need to be a master of finance/accounting/excel to land this job because honestly it really doesn't take more than a few weeks to gain a base level of knowledge needed to perform. Of course there is nuance learned over time but if you're smart and a good mentor you can turn someone into a weapon in a matter of weeks. The reason you are confused as to why they may be picking "gender studies ivy leaguers over state school accounting majors" (which I honestly can't say I've ever personally heard of or met someone who does major in gender studies, nor would I imagine that those people are getting a finance job) is because really banks just want the best "thinkers" and who they perceive to be the brightest based on that year's arbitrary hiring criteria. it is also likely banks are confident enough in their own training programs that they can acknowledge they don't need the best technical accounting bean-counter god for a first-year job, and that they'd rather have holistically competent and polished professionals.

Much like you said the Big 4 looks for CPA eligible kids so they can charge more, banks and consulting firms like prestige for the same exact reason. It is stupid and it is starting to go away but an element of that still exists in the finance world. 

Again, it comes down to culture and the university's efforts to facilitate certain paths. 

Our discussion is tailored towards observed behavioral patterns that those in different environments make based on the different perceptions of career options offered in varying environments.

I apologize if I've offended any of your sensibilities as it is clear you fall into the demographic that we are discussing. 

 

This is probably the worst part of WSO - people who think they're "superior" for getting a certain type of offer / firm. Grow tf up lmao. Especially since you're a 2nd year analyst

 

Lol keep coping u IB reject. U sound like all those Econ kids at my school who weren't able to break into my business school/finance program and try to justify y "Econ is just as good as Wharton/Stern/Dyson."

 

I think a lot of it has to do with a lack of knowledge as you alluded to. When I first gained an interest in finance it was through an intro to Accounting class. I basically begged my friend to help me get an interview at B4 because I didnt know what IB / PE was and I assumed working at a HF was only for brilliant people (i.e., not me). I didnt think Accounting at B4 would have been comparable to say lawyer / doctor / engineer, but I thought it would be the best option out of the accounting / finance career path. 

This might sound crazy but no one in my family worked in finance, other than one great Aunt who worked in commercial banking underwriting <1-5M loans, which sounded largely uninteresting. I had one relative who went the accounting route and she seemed very successful, so I didnt know any better.

Luckily, I discovered finance before securing internships and quickly changed gears toward IBD. However, if it werent for one friend whose Dad was a trader who nudged us toward IBD, I would probably be salivating at the idea of having Deloitte Audit on my resume. 

 

The thing most people don't talk about in forums such as WSO that are more focused on high finance, is that most people don't stay in IB, PE, or HF long term. They are super cool, super interesting career paths, but most people that start in banking do not end up making multi millions or end up in something else. There is certainly a much higher comp ceiling in IB, PE, and HF, but that's assuming you can stick it out with the stressful work and avoid getting cut in downturns. Many accountants tend to exaggerate how stressful a busy season is or the hours they work. Look at the nature of the work, in PE for example you are working with large amounts of investor funds that could disappear if things are not handled correctly vs. accountants cramming for year end financials. Accounting and high Finance are not the same in stress levels. However, in accounting you can still make very substantial amounts of money. I know more than a few partners making over or around $1.5m and that isn't just at big4. A good amount of regional firm partners bring in around $700k working 55 hours a week or so. If you were to really break down how many people go into Finance and end up making over 500k vs how many accountants end up making over 500k id be willing to bet there are a lot more people who went down the accounting career path making that money. A lot of people on here tend to think that every person working in Finance is making $2m+ a year. I also used to think that way until I started really networking. 

It's definitely silly when people get an offer for Deloitte and act like they got into Goldman IB. Obviously as everyone on WSO knows, banking recruiting is intensely harder than accounting. However, I feel like most of the students on here just look at the first  few years salary for accounting and trash it as a career path as a whole. Finance blows accounting out of the water for the first 3-5 years, but after that, accounting salaries scale very fast. Like I mentioned earlier, people in accounting make more than your average Finance student who generally starts in banking and ends up leaving for FP&A or Corporate Dev. Most people don't stay in banking or high finance long term.

Banking is great, PE is great, HF is great, and accounting is great. You will make great money in each career and learn a lot. Each one has it's pros and cons. In accounting you generally make the trade of less stress and less hours for less total comp potential. In banking you sacrifice a lot of your personal life and job stability for a higher possible total comp. It all comes down to what you desire from life. People on here tend to knock accounting but its a great career path and shouldn't be brushed off by students because of prestige or starting comp. 

 

While that's certainly extremely new and interesting to hear, once I started to consider the perspective it started making sense. Obviously internal audit at Deloitte is 10x more prestigious than being out in the ghetto.

That being said, you say that non-targets have a Dunning-Kruger effect that keeps them stuck in the B4, so what Dunning-Kruger bubble do target school banking hopefuls have? No one in an echo-chamber knows that they are in one. What better careers than MF PE are there out there, that the banking and PE jerk-offs simply do not know of? 

 

I'd also add a few things to this....

The reasoning for the accounting firms being the pinnacle is that students SEE THEM EVERYWHERE. Every tom, dick, or jane university gets their entire accounting program funded by the public accountants and thus there is a huge emphasis put on the faculty to steer the blind herd of accounting students to one of the Big4. I faced this when I would hire for accounting/FLDP positions at a couple of my previous employers where we would offer 1) 1.5x higher comp out of the gate, 2) Way way way better WLB, and 3) still would support all the CPA/prep material that the B4 would offer you all for a job that seasoned B4 accountants were trying to lateral over for....I had a hit rate of success <20%

B4 accountants for the most part genuinely have brain washed into thinking their field of choice is the gold standard. But those few that take the blinders off.....they have all the technical skills of a really good accountant with a personality to match....those folks are wunderkids once they move over to the corporate side.  

 

This is why I hate going back home to my mid sized town. Total losers have way too big egos because no one around them is successful to keep them in check. I much prefer living in a big city because the same people there don't have these massive egos

 

Most accountants want to work less hours not more. My friends in accounting are literally unstable during their busy period and would not sign up for that to be their whole life

Also for the people who do go accounting to IB, you typically need an MBA to do that move and that's a big barrier

Not necessarily true.  I had to work over this holiday weekend to help some controller who has a SPE they have to roll up their financials into for some regulatory deadline. 
 

I think the accountants in general have strong work ethics.

I love finance because it might actually be easier.  As an accountant I had to bank reconciliation to try to get to $0 variance (there are materiality level, sure).

Financial modeling you are predicting future cash flows.  The level of precision is not the same as closing books on historicals.  
 

Now you are talking about busy season (auditors), but most of them plan to go into industry as accountants/controllers/CFO’s.

Have compassion as well as ambition and you’ll go far in life. Check out my blog at MemoryVideo.com
 

Yeah I get all of that but it's ultimately just very uncommon to go into a major IB role straight from accounting. You have to take either a roundabout path with several moves to get to BB/EB IB, or do an MBA - someone would have to be very dedicated about breaking into IB as it's not a direct role from an accounting seat.

It's relevant work, but there are simpy too many more relevant positions for IB to recruit from - a competitive, high paying role will always have pick of the litter.

 

A few observations

I wouldn’t bash accounting.  There’s just more seats on the bus for that than say IB.

Let me give you an example, I went to the University of Hawaii, big state school with a great accounting program that supplies accounting talent mainly for the local market.  Big 4 (actually I think it’s only E&Y and Deloitte now left) is the best training and early career experience you can get in the market on a wholesale.  Sure you can go work for a small boutique private equity firm with 2 - 10 folks, but there are not many seats.  Other options are working at a commercial bank, PWM, or insurance.
 

Now, you take that environment and you dissect potential.  I would say there is and was a lot of talent amongst the students of the state school that can do analyst level IB work, and with the work ethic.  There are really smart and driven kids in these schools and they strove for the best opportunity in their market.  That was Big 4.
 

Good for me as an employer on the Mainland. I’ve hired two and had one intern.  

So someone wrote about happiness, and being better than the “drug dealers” or something.  There is truth to that but it applies in every situation in life.  I’ve written on this forum that I don’t think it is the industry you are in that makes you the happiest (and ultimately the most money over the long term - generally speaking), it is what group you are in at that company that largely determines your happiness.  So, if you are working in the top group - say upper management in a F500, development in a multidisciplinary real estate company, IB at say Wells Fargo, rocket design at SpaceX, or you’re with the hottest chick amongst your friends - you’re tip of the spear for working on the most important initiatives of that company/industry.  
 

Have some of them eventually switch from Accounting to IB?  Yes, but after getting an MBA or working in a middle or back office role in IB.  One of my friends went straight to Merrill Lynch TMT straight out of UG, but that’s an unicorn.  Actually, UH has something called the Akamai Program and they place students directly into IB, HF, etc.  The Hawaii diaspora and alums living abroad globally usually are really helpful. Like I said, a lot of talent per capita in Hawaii.
 

The Big 4 / audit mantra is wait until you are a Senior or Manager, and you have more opportunities.  Does hold back the switch until you are older and probably not willing to start at the bottom at IB.  
 

Forums such as WSO or TheVault (back in the day) opened up info to someone like me without the heavy “high” finance recruiting attention and culture amongst the student clubs.  
 

But I won’t knock it.  In fact for you, you should be happy.  Less competition due to the information asymmetry.  So before you knock the way things are - thank it for helping you.  Because I bet you some Univ of Hawaii graduate would be sitting in your seat today, and not you. 

Have compassion as well as ambition and you’ll go far in life. Check out my blog at MemoryVideo.com
 
Deal Team Six

Are you living in Hawaii? Will you consider DM me next time you're hiring?

I live in SF

My UH student hiring example is me finding talent arbitrage by harvesting my home state

Ask me in a few years (goes both ways, I love introducing people to Hawaii).  I would love to move back : )

I’d be bodyboarding this weekend instead!

Have compassion as well as ambition and you’ll go far in life. Check out my blog at MemoryVideo.com
 

Plenty of Big4 Deal advisory/FDD ppl go into IB, moreso MM banks. I know this 1st year B4 deals associate recently lateraled to EB (Evr, Laz, Moe).The lateral market rn is dookie but when it picks up the switch becomes a lot more common. 

 

It’s not uncommon, a lot use the MBA to pivot and the non-M7 top 15/20 b schools have legions of ex Big 4 accountants hoping to make the move to IB. I think a part of the issue is that Big 4 offices are in most large cities irrespective of IB presence. If you’re in Pittsburgh there’s not many IB seats, but presumably there are a fair number of accountants at Big 4 and national/regional firms servicing large corporates, middle market and other sundry clients. After they have a busy season or 2 under their belt it feels like a lot of them are trying to go to internal audit or FP&A roles with clients.

 

Hi everyone, could people offer me some advice please?

Im a UK university student, and I’m trying to break into banking however I haven’t had any luck with my applications this year. I did two internships last year and have managed to secure an audit offer with the big 4.

What would you guys recommend I do? If I take it I feel as though I might get stuck there and it’ll be difficult to transfer over, or not to take it and look next cycle - however I don’t fancy being unemployed?

Any advice?

 

I think it’s more about compromise and the lifestyle that many accountants want. As someone that is studying to be an accountant with a Big 4 track, the opportunities and the transparency of what’s to be expected is a huge factor of why I want to pursue this career path. The salary and job titles are of IB and the subsequent opportunities are enticing but they are also attainable within the field of accounting.

I have had these conversations with Partners, Managing Directors, and Senior Managers and they are happy with their salaries of 250k-1 million range and the lifestyle they have and these positions are attainable within a 6-10 year span.

I know there are other factors that come into play like busy season, location, and service lines but overall, many professionals will either jump ship after two years and transfer to a mid size or smaller sized firm or they stick with the partner track.

Personally, I don’t think the amount of work is worth the hassle in IB and I would rather work in PE or start my own firm. It really just comes down to preference and level of work that you want.

 

Whatever conditions existed for the accountant to not pursue IB initially are probably still be in place later.  Pretty big personality difference between the sort of person who wants to pursue an accounting career and the sort of person who wants to go to IB.  It's always possible that someone was really more of an IB kind of person, and somehow got the wrong guidance/environment in college and wound up in accounting.  But I feel like that's a narrow set of facts.

 

Former auditor here..I spent 10 years at a BB after qualifying for my CPA. I think this career path is more common and frequent than what is alluded to here. Most of the accountants I worked with who wanted to go into banking, that's the important point, did so and were able to get BB, EB spots or at the very least equity research positions. When I was in banking, a lot of our analyst and associate classes each year had one or two CPAs who made the move. 

That said, and this is the big caveat here, you still needed to have a strong UG/graduate institution and not be anti-social and awkward. 

 

Always better to have a job than to not, especially when looking to switch careers. I would take it, especially in this job environment, by the time you qualify hopefully the market has turned and you will be better positioned. 

 

Tbh I used to think that a CPA would be a rockstar junior banker. It totally makes sense on paper.  Anyone who puts in time can get the modeling and ppt part in but half the junior bankers have limited accounting knowledge behind the modeling they are doing.

So in past 3 years have I helped two CPAs at big 4 come in as laterals 2nd year analysts.

both have been total duds totally invalidating my theory (and hiring chops / reputation ) lol

 
forward_lateral

What makes em duds? Technical ability, work ethic?

I’ve been thinking myself. 
 

maybe just bad luck.

the first one just has an overall bad work ethic. But tends to overinflate the intensity of everything he does lol which people catch on eventually.

the second one has zero initiative and in a year has literally shown zero instances of where one would think ‘oh he has a CPA.’

 

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Have compassion as well as ambition and you’ll go far in life. Check out my blog at MemoryVideo.com
 

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