Make America Great Again!
At least 10% tariffs on every nation, 54% on China, 20% on the EU etc... This is what Trump's voters all wanted right? This is the way to Make American Great Again right?...What does it mean to be great again? It's going to be hilarious when all the red states finally learn what a tariff is. Some people have to touch the stove to know it's hot hahaha
There is a subset of the population that you will never convince that they were wrong or misled. The S&P could go to $4,000 and some people will say "it was inflated because of government spending! nothing to do with trump!" or "But Kamala's laugh!" or "But Hunter Biden was corrupt too!"
The last time America was great was when the S&P was at $4,000. The S&P going back to $4,000 would make American great again. Get it? lol
A lot of money was printed between then and now, need to take that into account.
even logistically, american labor is so much more expensive, the uneducated workers in oklahoma who think they'll get a manufacturing job for their desired $15/hr wage don't understand that the labor in second and third world countries is so cheap that it is willing to work for under $5/day. the tariffs don't make any sense when it's still more expensive to manufacture in the US but just more taxes paid to the US government (with declining social services and foreign influence).
i love america, god bless america, but i don't understand the thinking behind any decision of this administration.
Most entry level manufacturing jobs already pay like 25-30$ and hour. I used to work in one of these union flyover state mills for 30$ an hour and the company still struggled to find people that wont quit within 2 months. I honestly don't think a further increase in wages would attract meaningfully more people to these jobs because the vacancies are already here.
that's a really good salary tbh
i honestly don't think most americans want to work in factory jobs, they just want other americans to do factory jobs for their own presumed benefits
Goated username.
Finally we can work in unionized manufacturing jobs again, enjoy defined benefit pensions, and single-handedly provide for our wives and 5 children.
lol
It'll just be ignored to continue the Trump/Tariff bad circle jerk, but why is the concept of reciprocal tariffs so hard to comprehend for you people? In most cases the tariffs being implemented aren't even 1-to-1 with what these other countries already levy on American products. Not being a producer of anything is a long-term strategic weakness, one that only compounds over time when you refuse to take reciprocal economic actions. The supply chain disruptions from Covid clearly didn't hit hard enough to make some people recognize that drastic action needs to be taken to reassert America's economic force, especially as the world trends towards becoming multipolar. These tariffs hurt at home but they will hurt the other countries even more, and if it comes to a war of economic attrition the only one who could hope to come close to competing is China. No major economic shift comes without pain in the short-to-mid term, but I have a hard time believing the long-term implications are even a fraction as negative as many people are making it out to be. Of course the beneficiaries of the current system will have to be dragged kicking and screaming, it's only natural they will want to fight a shift like this tooth and nail.
"Tariffs Charged to the USA" column has nothing to do with tariffs. it was calculated based on trade deficit:
Completely dismantled homeboy's whole argument in two sentences. This is so clear that there's no room to refute it.
Wallstreetbets analysis shines once again!
Alright, I admit that the implication from the graphic is misleading since the calculation is based on trade deficits rather than actual tariff %s, and I’ll own the mistake for assuming its accuracy without verifying. Egg on my face for just reposting something without checking first. But let’s not pretend that dismissing 1 graphic thrown together to simply illustrate a point, which we all readily admit is much more complex, for the masses somehow invalidates the broader argument being made.
Most of these countries use some combination of higher imposed tariffs, trade barriers, or currency manipulation to disproportionately benefit their economies at the expense of US producers. It's those actions in tandem with preferential internal regulatory environments that allows them to have the competitive advantages in production that have led to 50+ years of offshoring and transition to an import-heavy, service-oriented economy. That’s neither speculation nor a condemnation of these countries for acting in their own best interest, it's reality. So even if the graphic misrepresents the numbers, the broader point of the US needing to address the trade deficits still stands. US free trade policy has allowed the problem to persist and worsen at the expense of American workers & industry while leaving other countries are free protect their own industries and cry foul whenever the US so much as proposes doing similar.
Obviously any attempt at shifting trade policy comes with pain. That’s what happens when you correct decades of imbalance where large incumbents exercising their influence have clearly benefitted. Every major economic transition in history - US shifting from agriculture to industry, China's rise as a global mfg hub through heavy protectionism, and even the post-WWII rebuilding of global trade - required painful short-term disruptions to achieve long-term stability within the respective countries. Tariffs and trade pressure while causing pricing pain in the short-term can force companies to re-shore parts of production, strengthen domestic industries, and reduce dependency on rising geopolitical rivals without having to resort to the old fashioned way of forcing these changes which we'd all like to avoid - war. It’s not about "instant results," it’s about long-term economic health over temporary discomfort which requires a long-term view of the problem. Unfortunately the US sucks balls at this because of our heterogenous culture & the short-term thinking inherent to our politics, as opposed to a country like China whose population is homogeneous, has a govt that gets to plan for the long-term since they don't worry about a new guy coming in to undo everything the last one did, and it executes quickly & absolute with authority (not to say that's always positive).
Unsurprisingly, most of the replies here aren’t willing or are incapable of engaging with the actual argument. It’s easier to pile on the flaw in the chart than to address whether the US should take stronger action on trade. I would ask you or anyone else then to answer any of these questions:
If no one is actually interested in having the discussion, that's fine, but then it just proves my 1st point that this is just another Drumpfizbad circle jerk and there’s just no reason to continue.
If your aim is to increase American productivity, trade deficit is what you need to reduce and therefore the correct metric to go by. If a country is importing lots of American goods there is no reason to target them even if they also have tariffs on American goods.
If anything, the supply chain disruptions unveiled the cold, hard truth that we don’t have a labor population suited for a significant reshoring/resurrection of American manufacturing. I mean, I knew this before those disruptions/COVID. If you’ve ever invested in a “higher-tech” mfg business, or one that just needed some more welders, you’ve seen this for over a decade now (if automation wasn’t an option).
Before tariffs should have even been discussed publicly, there should have been actions taken to address the relevant labor deficits (e.g., career transition/re-training programs and incentives; mandates for relevant classes/programs in public ed; increasing immigration and making the immigration process more efficient, etc.).
Not only that, we're aggressively deporting anyone and everyone who would even consider taking these jobs.
Well, aside from the policy being completely unhinged on its own, it’s also because the tariff rates he showed are entirely pulled out of thin air.
My brother in Christ, why are you still trying to defend this lunatic.
It’s truly the inmates running the asylum. Bessent on TV last night getting asked why Canada and Mexico were excluded “I don’t know” was his verbatim answer. “Well are you open to negotiating?” His response “idk, if that’s what Trump wants.” Ladies and gentlemen, may I present your treasury secretary!
I am not going to pretend to be an expert on tariffs but I know enough to say that tariffs end up being a tax and a dead weight loss to companies and consumers. The only entity that benefits is potentially the government. Countries should specialize in and focus on their strengths and trade for weaknesses. Hi tech is a strength while manufacturing is a weakness mostly due to costs to produce products.
No, this logic assumes that nothing else changes. I am blown away by how one dimenesional people on this website are.
lol this big-brained genius over here doesn’t even realize that Trump pulled these percentages out of his ass
You are - and I don't say this lightly - by far the most retarded user on this site. May god have mercy on your LPs.
Its like a close competition between this GME dude and the dick inmah ass guy. Surprised I dont see him in this thread yet.
Been saying this for years
hahahahahah
This is the reason we are so fucked. We STILL have people believing what comes out of the Trump administration's mouth, even in this forum with a pretty educated base. Guy is barely literate shilling his trump coin, pardoning fraudsters if they donate to his campaign, throwing tariffs on allies for no real reason that he can articulate, advertising TSLA on the white house lawn, declaring an "emergency" for what reason other than pushing his EO's, and these guys eat it up because the culture war told them to. We literally already dealt with this for 4-years when he had actual competent people in his administration. There's a reason they weren't invited back. Some trade agreements he is complaining about today, were negotiated DURING his term.
Trust me man the gay guy you saw at work that one time is just contributing to the economy like you and living his life, not trying to fuck you in your sleep.
Seriously. Critical thinking has completely disappeared from so much of political discourse and instead replaced by blind devotion with no care for facts, as evidenced by @PrivateTechquity 🚀GME🚀.
Someone actually believed those made up foreign tariffs 😱😱😱 MF PE HHs and pod BDs plz blacklist this guy
The sad part is that it's not just him who believed them...11 others did also lol. And this is supposed to be an "educated" crowd
Tell me you didn't know how the "tariffs charged to the U.S.A." column was actually calc'd w/o actually telling me how you didn't know.
I understand you're core argument, one based on geopolitical great power competition, and industrialization for essential national security related components, processes, supply chains, and core goods/technology. It doesn't appear that most others do, which is understandable given that we're running a post industrial service economy, and have been doing so for the past few decades.
Bringing manufacturing back is just too hard though. It's not cost competitive with the world, and I don't believe that we have 1/100th of the manufacturing talent available, nor the right policy makers in government, the right executives at manufacturing adjacent companies and industries, and frankly the deep political buy-in needed for this.
Whether people like it or not, we're stuck being a hyper exposed service economy. This is a death sentence, as Ray Dalio (yes I know, don't MS me yet) has repeatedly indicated, for any hegemon. We're know stuck between needing to keep inflating our markets, to keep this sham economy going, and to keep the dollar its its pole position. Regardless of what the economic nationalists want, they aren't intelligent enough to provide it to us.
Thanks Chinese bot - I am sure the country with the most powerful military, the leader in AI, and one of the few self-sustainable will wither into obsolesce.
Are you actually capable of critical thinking or is it really 100% parroting the talking points you get on the weekly (daily?) newsletter?
What are you blabbering about? How are you this stupid? Do you even know what the point of globalization and specialization are? Do you even fundamentally understand how keeping costs low spurs economic growth? Specialization allows for countries (the US included) to focus their efforts and resources on a limited range of goods and services so that they can establish an expertise and comparative advantage. Let's say there are two countries, Country A and Country B, both these countries need two products, Widget X and Widget Y. Let's say if Country A spends all of its resources producing Widget X, it can produce 500/day, but then they can't produce any Widget Y. Now if Country A spends all of its resources producing Widget Y, they can produce 1000/day, but can't produce any Widget X. Now because of limited resources, it's impossible for Country A to produce 500 of Widget X and 1000 of Widget Y or any combination of them that would be beyond the Production Possibilities Frontier (I'm not explaining this to you, so go Google it yourself). Now let's say Country B can produce 100 Widget X in a day or 800 Widget Y in a day. For Country A, their opportunity cost of producing 1 Widget X is 2 Widget Y. For Country B, their opportunity cost of producing 1 Widget X is 8 Widget Y. Now if these two countries trade, Country A could trade 1 Widget X for 4 Widget Y, leaving Country A better off instead of producing it domestically where producing 1 less Widget X would only yield 2 Widget Y. Now Country B would also benefit because they would receive 1 Widget X for only 4 Widget Y whereas if they produced it domestically it would cost them 8 Widget Y to product 1 Widget X. Producing everything domestically, especially the goods that we do not have a comparative advantage is incredibly expensive. In doing so, the US would be left worse off because we would need to allocate more resources producing goods that we do not have a comparative advantage in, whereas if we traded with other countries that do have a comparative advantage in that good, it would cost us less resources to obtain the same amount of that good. Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations (does this guy or book ring a bell or did you fail high school history and econ?), discusses the causes of wealth in nations. He argued that division of labor and specialization were crucial for economic prosperity.
But your logic is that because we had a once is a century event (covid) and supply chains were disrupted for a couple years, that we should abandon specialization, spurn our trading partners, and cripple economic growth (both long term and short term)? I could understand increasing domestic production and manufacturing if there was a threat of war with our allies and trading partners, but there is not even a modicum of evidence to suggest that we would go to war with any of our allies. So what fucking long term weakness are you talking about? As long as our alliances and trade agreement are strong, there is no reason nor threat of war with our allies you dipshit. We just continue trading, specializing, and everyone is better off. You're preparing for armageddon despite having no evidence of armageddon.
So now that we've discussed the benefits of free trade, what the fuck is the point of the tariffs? Seriously, list the reasons. All I've heard from Trump and his idiot supporters is 1.) Bringing jobs back, 2.) Negotiation tactic to gain "something" from our allies, and 3.) Long standing trade inequities with our partners
1.) How many jobs are being created and investments made vs how much additional inflation (essentially a tax)? Billions invested into the US and trillions paid by the consumer? Sounds like a terrible trade off and the most expensive job creation act in history
2.) I'm still waiting to hear what that "something" is. No one has been able to tell me so far. What could we possible need from 60 countries? I mean for fucks sakes, we slapped tariffs on Israel, but at the same time are providing them military aid...why not just stop the fucking military aid then? It's like we take $1 from them and then give them $2.
3.) Now this one is good. Because it's really all about pride and ego. Let me ask, how much are you willing to pay to stick it to Europe and Canada? If you asked every single Trump voter, how much would they be willing to pay each and every day just to stick it to Europe and Canada? What do you think they'd say? You think the struggling farmer in Indiana is willing to pay thousands of dollars more for farm equipment, iphones, tv's, cars, clothes, shoes, alcohol, furniture coffee, literally fucking everything? The lower and middle class have been getting crushed for the last 5 years due to covid, high inflation, and high interest rates, and now they are about to get pummeled into the ground. You really think they care this fucking much about sticking it to Europe? The President's job is to look out for the best interests of the American citizens. Not to engage in some ego lead trade war at the expense of the American people. Did you forget that part you absolute fucking imbecile?
I know you wrote this with good intent but there is no point in explaining this to someone that is probably still blaming Obama for giving poor communities access to healthcare.
I see you paid attention in macro economics. But did you sleep through game theory?
Pray tell- how are we supposed to get other countries to stop tariffing us? Beg and plead? Offer to be Europe's military?
Or it's somehow ok in your little economic model just for them to tariff us?
I made an account just so that I can tell you that you're retarded.
This is some of the funniest shit I have read on this site
It's not reciprocal
it's 34% on China, but yeah, it's pretty crazy. but an opportunity to buy a big market dip if you keep the job.
On top of the 20%
They confirmed the 34% is in addition to the existing 20% on China. So 54%.
according to FT the way these tariffs were calculated was by looking at trade deficit as a percentage of total trade and using that as a proxy for what the supposed tariffs country x charged the US
some super export heavy regions like Central America who send a lot of coffee/ bananas /other ags will be hit and it’s gonna shoot up the price of these commodities which can’t even be grown in the US
The way Trump voters will defend every stupid fucking thing this guy does will be studied for decades.
I also find it amusing that you have defenders of him on WSO out of all places. If you take Trump's economic realignment and rewriting of global rules seriously (don't just think he is doing a bit of rattling), it's arguably finance and real estate (as an asset class) that loses out the most. He is waging war on trade deficits, but it's trade deficits that have meant that all the global dollars get parked in US real estate, shares, debt.
That’s the funniest (saddest) part about it.
Leading up to and immediately after election WSO Trump voters were so smug about how he would be a tailwind for our industry.
Now they’re busy trying to figure out how to spin this new narrative while we watch the supposed return of the M&A and IPO markets pushed back until next year - AT A MINIMUM.
Bravo, fellas.
Most people on WSO work tier 2 finance jobs.
The majority aren't working at a global investment bank, AM, HF or PE firm...
Everything is a nail if the only tool you hold is a hammer.
I think we need to not look at this through an economic lens but through a geopol lens. It is clear the Trump admin believes China is the greatest threat out there which is why they are willing to compromise on Russia to pull the Russians away from China (Not going to comment on whether it is working but that's the strategy).
The US knows it can't win a two front war (Europe and APAC). They are 110% focused on crippling China in anyway possible.
I think you’re being far too generous in assuming there is a master plan here. Trump likes Russia on a personal level, he admires Putin and hates China. He’s not an intelligent enough person to actually have a plan beyond that.
I guess he likes Russia because it is a white country, while China is not.
his administration doesn't think that much. why are we alienating allies like taiwan, japan, south korea, phillippines, etc with tarriffs when we need them against china? the defunding of usaid and other agencies has significiantly reduced our foreign influence, we sent 3 people to myanmar while china sent more than a 100 rescuers. japan and south korea are working with china to address america's tariffs.
they only want tiktok so they can push republican propaganda on that as well, and it's the only major media platform that isn't plagued with republican propaganda.
not to mension, how is russia not a greater threat? they've been pushing all these culture and misinformation wars online in all western countries, manipulating election results. and let's be honest, russia benefits most from an unstable america, it doesn't care which political party is causing the instability.
russia will also never side with US over China. how many ukraine peace plans has russia even accepted that trump administration proposed?
Just thinking back to the countless times over the last 10 years on this website I was shouted down for my consistent Trump criticism. Now look at you. You absolute clowns.
50 years of deeply engrained "Republicans Good at Economy" cognitive dissonance and the “smartest young minds on Wall Street” couldn’t see through it.
It’s honestly comical how pro-Trump this site is / was.
Always crying about wokeness and DEI while supporting a guy who is too stupid to run a lemonade stand, let alone, the country.
This is what happens your due diligence process is focused on the wrong things. There are lots of people on this site who resent diversity initiatives to the point where the are willing to ignore the negative attributes of the lead clown. The dude has taken six companies into bankruptcy. I could say the same thing for the people who vote based on religion. The religious people this site were willing to ignore all of the terrible ethical attributes of the lead clown. If you vote for a clown, you might get a clown show.
the DEI and wokeness complaints make even less sense when one realizes only around 30% of US population is white men (including lgbt white men)
like i'm not supporting required promotion mandates being half women, and i accept that DEI execution is flawed often, but having DEI only networking events is not that serious
Muh trickling down
It is exhausting being consistently correct, but I suppose someone has to do it.
Exactly, if you were to post this around 2016 you would be downvoted to oblivion. The majority of WSO couldn't get enough of Trump from 2016 - 2021ish.
Suddenly there is this massive swing in opinion but no one actually takes ownership of their prior opinions.
When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.
What the hell exactly would we manufacture in the US that would be better at a similar pricepoint when other countries could make it for cheaper? Trump clearly shows that he lacks fundamental understanding of the market and how trade works (especially for the US as a consumerist country). Him dropping all of these tariffs just screws over the average American even harder with the promise of "bringing jobs back to America". Why would any half-decent company spend billions on building a plant here over the course of a few years when they could just pass that extra tariff cost onto the consumer? How does this do anything to curb inflation? Consumers will just hold onto their money even more and drive the economy into a recession. Can't wait to hear the idiotic Trump supporters justify these tariffs
What an economic moron Mr. Dornald Drumpfalumpkim must be. I can draw a supply and demand curve and block off the triangle lost to tariff dead weight and am therefore infinitely smarter.
NO ONE tariffs us, why would we so heartlessly tariff them?? The beauty of our harmonious global economy is that we get lower prices on items by moving manufacturing to cheaper areas- our thrifty working class stays on their toes by competing with people who don't have electricity, shit on their dirt roads, and live in multi family, multi generational homes. This is the beautiful dream of Adam Smith, and anyone who doesn't like it is communist SCUM.
Fuck the small manufacturing towns- those are full of backwards redneck trump voters whom I despise. I am ashamed that they are my own blood. We need more people like these H1B folks- such a beautiful culture, I can't wait until the US looks more like their home nations.
Trump clearly doesn't understand that our 401Ks have gotten so juicy by margin growth driven by selling out our working class. I'd gladly gut Nashua, NH and let the whole town spiral into meth so I can get my underwear cheaper and make a killing on my HanesBrands stock. Anyone who disagrees should go back to their hippie commune to read Marx and GET OUT OF THE WAY OF CAPITALISM.
It is truly hilarious how quickly MAGA has devolved into Maoism. Perhaps an inevitable outcome of the cult of personality that has developed over the past few years + education polarization + migration of total dumbfucks (like this guy) to the right.
A nation is its land and its people. If we do not protect both, we have nothing. Enjoy the hollowed out economic zone you're creating.
.
Dude you can spend more on redistribution retraining its basic economics to redistribute a market outcome you disagree with than to distort the market itself the deadweight loss is orders of magnitude lower are you literally retarded
Add some punctuation and try again.
I actually admire this sentiment, you love your fellow hillbilly so much you're willing to subsidise their existence rather than encourage meaningful competition.
Very progressive of you sir.
"meaningful competition"- right, labor is cheaper in China and India because their people are just harder working and more clever than our people. Not because they need less money to fund their subsistence-level quality of life. If you aren't willing to live in a home made of scrap metal, Pardeep deserves your job!
Yes- I unashamedly care more about my people with whom I share common ancestry and culture than I do about anyone else.
I kinda like how everyone is freaking out. Sometimes you gotta shake up things to have a chance of getting out of local maxima.
Sorry to everyone losing their carry or blowing up. Maybe life just wants to show you better things.
Really? You think this is about carry and the stock market? Most people in this country live pay check to pay check barely scraping by. The cost of literally everything they need is about to increase drastically and you "like how everyone is freaking out." You're one of the lucky ones with high disposable income, where the increase is prices won't really affect you. That's not a luxury most of the country has you selfish imbecile. With that mentality, America would actually be better if you didn't exist. I'm not saying this to be mean, but you actually wish hardship on your fellow Americans...why?
In 4 years they'll just start stealing and redistributing existing wealth again.
Yes, runaway printing is bad. Tariffs were what made America great before the globalist hollowed out her once beautiful industry.
May be voting for a guy who took six companies into bankruptcy was not a good idea. No one would hire you if your resume said, "filed for bankruptcy six times." but here we are.
Luckily a nation state can just print money to avoid bankruptcy, and street protests and vandalism won't become an issue, given all violent criminals have recently been deported.
Hopefully this works out. I think people forget how big of a deficit the government is in and markets may have been spoiled with huge growth from debt over the past 10-15 years- frankly taxes need to increase and spending needs to decrease otherwise the deficit will continue to balloon and bankrupt the country.
In my mind, you really have to either increase the regular taxes or add tariffs to raise more money and at least tariffs have the benefit of promoting more domestic activity. There are many benefits of producing more items locally that people forget about vs. the mainstream economist viewpoint of min/max imports and exports.
Also using the stock market as an indicator of a healthy economy can be very misleading and is shortsided as well as thinking about the immideate impact on consumer goods prices without thinking about long-term effects.
Thank you for a slightly nuanced opinion to this that seemingly none of my peers share
Of course, Mr. Cokehead
Very little of what you wrote in paragraphs two and three makes much financial sense. Tariffs on industries in which we have decided to outsource will not work due to labor costs. We have a service based economy specialized in high tech products that we export and we import from countries that have cost advantage in labor other industries. It does not make economic sense for manufacturing to come back to the US
The stock market is a terrific indicator of the future health of the economy. If the stock market tanks, the economy will tank
Some industrial production will come back if it was on the edge in the first place. Just becuase we have shifted to a more service based economy doesn't mean that it is not a good idea to produce some more stuff domestically (some pros of domestic manufacturing are more resiliant supply chain, more diversified economy, pride in domestic production, trade knowledge). Also, just becuase we can move production to the other side of the world to save a little bit of money does not mean its a good thing with no downsides. If the product is still cheaper, then it'll still be imported but will get a bit more expensive.
The stock market is a guess on future corporate profits, just because corporate profits go up, it doesn't mean the economy is getting stronger. The stock market was roaring in 2000 with the dot-com boom but an economy made up of those internet startups would have failed. Also the stock market was doing well leading into 2008 as corporate profits were good, but it was all driven by toxic debt that came crashing down.
What do you think should be done instead of tariffs?
I really hope you're right but I see one large hole in your argument. These tariffs aren't necessarily going to make people move production to the US. I import items from China and even with the tariffs, my COGS are way cheaper than anything I can find here. Except now I have a great reason to charge my customers more... Just doesn't make sense to me.
A lot of production won't move back, will still be cheaper to import with the tariffs. Just on the edge cases you will see some production move back.
Tariffs on goods like the ones you import will bring in money for the federal government, most of the costs will eventually be passed on to the consumer, which sucks, but that is just how taxes are. I don't think a lot of people understand that tariffs are just a round-a-bout way to increase taxes. Instead of paying more income taxes and having less money to buy cheap goods, now you'll have about the same money after taxes but the goods will be slightly more expensive.
In my opinion, neither case is the end of the world like the news is making it seem, but there are interesting secondary effects on how the government decides to collect taxes (whether it be directly through individual income taxes, corporate, sales tax, or tariffs) that should be thought of. All taxes are not bad, you need some to pay for a government.
It’s suffocatingly shameful to me how Trump shills talk about MAGA while completely neglecting the costs of production and living standards in the US vs non-western countries. Let me make this brazenly clear to you, NOT A SINGLE MANUFACTURING JOB, NOT EVEN YOUR GODDAMN CHIP MAKING that Biden has been salivating for, will ever be competitive in the U.S. vs ROW. Let’s not even talk about costs of production which is embarrassingly visible. Why do you think TSMC has to import 1K engineers from Taiwan to work @ the AZ fab? Fun fact Intel fab is literally next door in AZ and they could have poached (which is what the govt wanted). Did you know that TSMC fab staff has to go back to work in the event of earthquakes, which, mind you, are quite frequent in Taiwan, because their peasant lives are worthless comparing to the billions of dollars of equiment in the fabs and they need to check and make sure they remain functional in the event of natural disasters? Try commanding Intel engineers the same thing in AZ? The U.S. exported slavery in favor of lower costs goods, I don’t know how insidiously retarded you have to be to import slavery back to US soil instead of cozy office job in Sunnyvale CA churning out production codes for AWS/Azure/GCP.
It's actually very impressive the way Trump made half his own party and almost all independents turn on him. It took Biden 4 years to do what he just did in 3 months.
Everyone questioning why DT is doing this when it makes 0 economic sense.
To me this seems pretty simple, if he raises another $500bn then that’s another $500bn in tax cuts for high earners, corporations and capital gains. Last time he cut corporate taxes from 35-21%. You can expect something similar again.
While many on WSO might enjoy rubbing one out to the thought of tax cuts ideologically, these kinds of tax cuts have virtually 0 positive impact on the real economy, only on people’s portfolios. Anyone disputing this is either
a) economically illiterate or b) wealthy and intellectually dishonest.
This is only going to fuck over AverageJoe on the street even more by giving raising consumer prices through the “reciprocal” (not really reciprocal) tariffs. How short-sighted is Trump to not see how 2024 election was won by high inflation two years earlier - even when inflation was back to relative normal by election day (also despite the incredible jobs growth of Biden). Even an inflation recovery won’t save Republicans.
We have seen how easily a populist ‘saviour’ can win in America, even if they’re a complete clown. If DT fucks over Average Joe on the street too much then Dems can put whoever they like on the ballot and they’ll win if they focus on prices and run essentially a class-centric campaign.
And I bet you it’ll be someone that makes Bernie Sanders look like a moderate.
Luckily, Trump only has about 18 more months for his antics. After that, he'll be facing a Democrat controlled House and Senate. It's incredibly sad that the Republicans were able to control the Executive branch, House, and Senate and all they could do was fuck it up and just give it back 2 years later. What a joke
They are merely vessels for their voters, who are at least 1 of the following 3 things: stupid, senile, or hateful.
Have you ever heard of tit for tat? Escalation with the ultimate goal of descalation.
Trump's tariffs are so extreme and stupid, even Republican senators are proposing a bi-partisan bill to undue his tariffs and limit the President's tariff power. If anything good comes out of these tariffs, it's that the US realizes that the executive branch has too much power and needs to be reigned in, so if the American idiots want to elect another idiot for president, the damage will be limited
This moron has offered to reduce the tariffs on China if China approves the sale of Tiktok...what the actual fuck...why the fuck is the President of the United States negotiating the sale of a privately held social media company that a bunch of teenagers dance on...Trump supports are absolute morons
I don't know why people don't understand the reasoning for tariffs. It's very simple, actually.
Other countries charge us more than we charge them, either through a direct tariff or through taxes and regulations that unfairly target our industries.
These tariffs are a negotiating tactic for other countries to drop their unfair practices and level the playing field. A byproduct of this may be that some manufacturing moves back to America, which is not a bad thing since that will bring back high-quality jobs for middle-class Americans, diversify our economy, and possibly boost innovation in manufacturing/hard tech which has lagged behind our service industries. Do you really want an economy where almost all available career paths are service-based?
The ‘reciprocal’ tariffs are based on trade deficit, not existing tariffs on US goods.
Oh shit you're right, no countries tariff us at all!
Are you denying that other countries favor their own industries at our expense?
Like I said, I think the high tariffs are a negotiating tactic. It doesn't matter that they were accurately calculated. What matters is if they push countries to drop taxes/regulations that make our industries less competitive.
How about you try understanding how Trump even calculated these percentages first
How many retards are on this site? Can you all come out and do a head count?
Tell me where I'm wrong then.
Have you taken a class in international economics yet?
Yes, and what's your point?
The whole Adam Smith Wealth of Nations theory only applies if we have a balanced, level playing field where all countries play by the same rules. But that's not what we have right now. We have an asymmetric system where other countries can sell into our country tax and regulation free, but we can't do the same in their markets. The whole point of tariffs is to level this playing field.
How do spend so much time on this website to have 10k bananas? And you still don’t even grasp basic economic concepts?
That was from back in the COVID days.
I grasp economic concepts by understanding how things play out in the real world, not by blindly following what was taught in my high school AP Economics class.
Arent they trying to losw down the economy on purpose with these tariffs? There are a lot of government bonds maturing soon, right? So maybe its not as stupid as it looks right now... as they want to secure new financing and issue low interest bonds. Is there someone who can educate me on this?
GOP suddenly caring more about federal government interest costs than corporate profits and their own portfolio values?
So should we torpedo the economy every time govt bonds are due? I guess it'll be pretty easy to know when to short the market then
If you undergrad asshats stopped roleplaying bankers in your free time maybe you'd get a clue this is all BS and will be walked back within a month
Then what's even the point? Everyone's 401k's were too high, so we needed a culling? Either way Trump looks stupid. Tariffs are a dumb idea to begin with and now if he implements tariffs and then immediately removes them a month later after riling the markets, he looks even dumber.
“Dipshit” at the end was so tough bet you feel like the man
Are the tariffs just dumb when we do them? or are they also dumb when they are done to us?
Explain how we can possibly get them to take their tariffs off of us. It seems like we have a few options:
1) stop giving them military protection
2) tit for tat tariff strategy
3) offer to suck their dicks
Trump is trying 1 and 2, you seem to only want #3 because it doesn't go against your freshman year econ class
Inb4 drivel about "we don't know how he calculated the reciprocal tariffs!!". If they tariff us AT ALL we can hit them back however much we please until they remove their trade impediments.
Another fun part of the policy impact is the fact that American defence exports are going to start dropping off pretty quickly, starting with Europe naturally but then could see similar trend for quite a few other countries that don't want their defence sector's overpriced products that now seem to carry pretty important geopolitical risk as seen with the F-35 recently. That's less manufacturing jobs in the US. And European competition looks likely to be strong there, France was already the world's second largest arms exporter before all of the recent EU defence revival talk.
To clarify cause I imagine someone is going to point it out, the defence sector is certainly not pure manufacturing, there's a lot of other jobs in there, starting with engineering, tech etc... However, many of its products still require an assembly line that does employ low to middle skill workers. And that's without accounting for the massive number of manufacturing jobs that exist to provide the intermediary materials and goods used in the finished products.
Incorrect. Military exports are almost entirely subsidized by US tax payers. It basically amounts to the US giving foreign countries money to turn around and buy our shit that we then call an export.
Basically nothing will change due to this.
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