I know a lot of banks have been raising salaries the past few months. Curious which banks markets/S&T got a pay bump in addition to IB. Additionally wonder if anyone has heard anything about banks that have yet to do anything
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The difference between markets/ER and IB is getting a bit ridiculous at this point.....
Its absurd also considering markets pulled all the deadweight the past year.
Would really like a raise but not holding my breath, just going to aggressively recruit for buyside earlier. Lots of people leaving over the past year for similar reasons.
Probs a good course of action
Not gonna happen unfortunately
Yeah man I am looking for answers from people who are actually in current roles at a relevant firm, not speculation lol
Yeah man I am actually in a current role at a relevant firm
ditto. not looking like it's gonna happen
This is a serious question that will come off as offensive and/or naive: has there been a material increase in workload on the S&T side like there has been in IB that your work-life balance is almost nonexistent?
I really just started super recently so I am not the best person to ask but at least at my firm from people who I have talked to the volume of work in general has gone up significantly but also this is simply a function of increased deal flow (I am on a structuring desk). I think the expectations about when you are reachable have certainly gone up. People in pure sales or trading roles I don't think the increase has been extremely material but obviously there was some. The way I think about these roles is your job is a lot more centered around market hours. No trader ever gets staffed on a bake-off for some merger on a Friday at 4pm ya know.
Hi Analyst 1, I’m currently an SA on the Structuring desk. Can I PM you as I’m considering Structuring for FT.
Last year, the answer is yes. Market makers make money when the market is volatile and there are many conflicting views. This means banks see a decent amount of two-way flows and the spreads clients cross are wider. This was the situation in 2020, where every capital markets group essentially killed it. Hours weren't longer, but the days were much more intense. 2021 it's not the case as much, volatility is a bit lower and flows are a bit more one way.
Anyways, as I'm sure you've probably seen, S&T banks across the street have given their analysts (at least) raises. Most banks started by giving IB analysts raises, until JP decided to give both IB and WM raises. Capital markets was upset, JP had to give them a wage increase as well, and then the rest of the street followed. For what it's worth, JP fucked up, and I don't think I should've been given a raise...but I'll take it.
There is a reason everyone knows the rainmaker Bankers, and no one can reference an amazing / rock star trader these days. Volcker rule killed S&T.
Mark Spehn just earned Deutsche Bank $1 Billion on one trade (Zim Shipping), and he's hardly the only trader with a huge P&L (also see Tom Malafronte in junk bonds, and Anthony Dewell in energy, etc.). If that doesn't qualify as rock star, I don't know what to say. And he is hardly the only trader who has brought in 9 figure P&L. I challenge you to name a single banker who brought in anywhere close to this in the past decade. Just look at the regulatory disclosures for highest paid employees, its mostly star traders, not bankers. And many of the best leave for hedge funds like Citadel, and Capula, or start their own for true outliers.
Investment banking may or may not be better for the average analyst (hours are much worse and less interesting, exit ops outside of finance are better, job security is probably better), but rockstar traders make much more than "rockstar" bankers, are promoted younger (Kunal Shah joined goldman rates trading, made md by 27, partner by 31), and bring in more P&L (and at most banks, its fixed income trading that brings in the most revenue, not M&A advisory, both in terms of revenue share, and especially in terms of revenue per head).
Kunal started trading back in 2004, it says something that your example happened over a decade ago.
It’s much easier to rise to the top when the industry is expanding, with new desks being created and new products to trade. That’s where the opportunity to prove yourself comes from. In my opinion, S&T has probably stopped shrinking, but it’s not growing and there’s lots of sr talent ahead of you.
LOL have you read about other kinds of S&T? Physical trading has blown the "conventional" kind of S&T that you are most likely talking about out of the water in the last few years. Read about the top phys trading shops.
LOL at thinking you don’t run into the same issues on the physical side.
lots of underpaid juniors, and people who don’t start making real money until 15 years into their career.
Fixed income S&T, Canadian bank, NYC office, bumps across all levels
Im assuming this is scotia. Is this the beginning though?
RBC?
Know what the previous and new numbers look like? At least for Analyst and Associate levels?
pain
With GS raising AN1 level to 110k (other BBs likely to follow), it would be kind of crazy if Markets roles are still at 85k lol.
gs AN1 110k for S&T????
Also how is cash equities all programmed? If an Iran tanker carrying oil gets blown up, how will the program know to buy energy stocks? Is that condition programmed in ?
So any updates from anyone? There has to be conversations about this going on no?
The base pay disparity existed long ago in associates and above level. Now it just spreads down to analysts.
Don't think banks will match pay in the short term.
I think JPM confirmed bump for analysts. Wonder if other banks fill follow suit
they better or im going to jpm lol
Lol I'd imagine they would eventually. I feel like IBD just gets way more attention overall so it's harder to find this stuff out for GMD or S&T
.
did the BB raise (MS, GS, JP, Citi, ...) affect the S&T analyst too?
I'm at JP and no, we haven't heard anything.
Bump if anyone has heard anything with offers going out
Bofa Just raised Pay for markets & research to 100k, matching bankers
GS about to come in and big dick em
Do these analyst pumps insinuate pumps at higher levels like associate level? They wouldnt have analysts making nearly as much as the associates right?
my offer for SA says 85k
Did they bump other levels or just Analyst?
Wells only raised IB junior pay. S&T interns got their return offers today at 85k.
Still potential for that to change though, no?
Heard management is looking into it
Does anyone know analyst 1 salary in S&T in London? And what will be the new amount after the increase (BofA for example)?
65k GS/JP/MS for markets AN1
edit: MS: 70k for all FO. GS 70k for IBD
Base?
I was told 55k last year
How is GS 70k for IBD? All my IBD friends said 65
.
Prop trading is still very alive at these banks. Plus we have to be on the ball the entire time we're in the office - can't afford to have any downtime like bankers usually do
Which products do you see it alive in ?
That actually makes sense.
Goldman Sachs also now confirmed to bump salaries across FO to 110k. That makes JPM,BOFA and GS so far to have increase S&T comp. Any news on the others, any of the euro's moving?
Finally a good comment about S&T. So happy. :)
Hopefully other banks follow suit. I’d have to re-negotiate my offer lol
Could we expect other banks that raised IBD salary to follow suit?
What is bonus for GS S&T?
110k + ?
bump?
How much bonus will GS AN1/AN2 get with their 110k base?
Soc gen is increasing to 100k for s&t
110k for AN1?? thats a big jump from 85k
any announcement in non-gs ib divisions internally yet? st, er, wm, am? when it will go into effect etc
JPM Markets Analysts will not see any realization of the 100k salary raise til next year.
Was this explicitly said, or they havent talked about it yet?
citi s&t?
Nothing yet but I'd imagine it's coming. Pleasantly surprised to hear the news about other banks bumping comps. I think it is a good sign for anyone pursuing a career in S&T.
awesome. do you think citi will go all out and raise to 110k or maybe 115k? theyre killing it lately....
Hey Barclays, where you at...don't make us jump to Citi, or worse, CS....
Why the hate on citi?
Solid place, just not my type
BARCLAYS WYA
The others will most likely wait until closer to the end of the year (when promotions get announced) or after bonuses are announced, S&T does not pay/promote its analysts at mid-year like IB does. I think analysts and associates get a bump in base but it will come out of bonus especially once trading revenues return to more normal levels.
Personally, would rather higher base lower bonus (assuming net same) - allows me to budget more, easier for taxes, 401k etc
Meaning, I'd rather 100+20 than 85+35 (but yes, I'd rather 85+50 than 100+20)
With the rates bonuses get taxed, 85+50 might be the same as 100+20 haha
.
If I'm a college sophomore, why would I ever do S&T if you're getting less bonus, and less base, and shrinking industry?
They'll need to raise S&T base to match IB base just to get decent applications and talent. STEM majors going to BigTech take away a lot more from S&T than from IB with the Finance and Econ majors
Because they get near-the-same total comp working 75% or fewer of the hours as people in IB. Despite having technical skills, there may also be many students who are not good enough to pass FAANG-type interviews at tech companies. IB's offer finance jobs where technical competencies can be utilized. Seems like a win-win.
Don't kid yourself -- the whole finance industry is "shrinking", stagnating at best.
Yeah, but not when 1/2 the banks are also giving more $ to for S&T also...
Most sell side traders and salespeople are finance and econ majors who like markets and enjoy the environment that a trading floor offers. They may be able to do some basic programming but that is not what is going to determine if they can succeed or not on the floor. You are totally right that banks are not getting the STEM kids like they used to but that is more of a function of lack of innovation due to the regulatory environment than comp. Banks are not innovative like they were pre-crisis and they generally lag in terms of technology. If you are a talented STEM kid you are going to have a ton of places to use your skills in a more interesting way than a bank, that was not necessarily the case pre-crisis. You are also right that the business is not growing but the industry as a whole is not exactly in "growth" mode.
In S&T you don't hire analysts because they can do analyst work, you hire them because you think they can become a revenue generator within a couple of years and that is how you get paid in S&T. In banking most of the analysts leave after 2 years and even fewer of them actually stick it out until director or MD when you actually have a revenue number next to your name. The banking analyst should get paid more, its more hours and what is done by the banking analyst is actually valuable to the transaction process vs an S&T analyst who is doing the grunt work and being paid to learn.
If you are trying to optimize for income early in your career you should be a banker/PE but if you want to make a nice living, get some autonomy early in your career (most associates have their own trading books/client lists and only have to do a bit of grunt work from time to time) and actually have a life then S&T might be a better fit for you. The people that stick around in S&T are not the type of people who would even consider banking no matter how much more it pays at the junior level. Not saying one is better than the other but they attract very different personality types.
Agree with all of the above but will note that at my US BB (GS/MS) most new hires and interns are from a STEM background. These are kids with the best grades from Ivys/Oxbridge, but just prefer to have a social overlay to technical work which in S&T you get like nowhere else.
agreed that most of S&T juniors are paid to learn instead of making material contributions
Well, apparently GS and now Morgan Stanley disagree with you, because they just raised also...
Yeah MS and GS have now raised All salaries for Research/Trading/Banking to 110k, JPM and BOFA have raised to 100k. Barclays/Citi/CS/UBS/DB still quiet for raises
Well, then I know where I'd be switching after a year....
Yup, have already started putting out feelers. If they don't match salaries at least, im gone.
MS is 115k for AN1
What’s As1/2/3 gonna look like?
Any news on whether Associates and VPs in S&T/Global Markets have received bumps in their base as well? If so, what are the new levels?
No word, have to assume associates did, otherwise they'd be making the same base
am i seeing this right? MS now paying AN1 traders 115k while IBD gets 110k?
Would be based, but no that was a typo. I messaged the author of the article and he confirmed its 110k, was misreported
brump any new updates?
really interested to see where the European banks stand... Talent will go to the American banks if they don't follow...
interested... ***looking at you*** barclays and DB
bump
Tailwind for anyone going into S&T, really awesome news that these raises are happening.
Not saying it's a perfect role by any means, but you know a lot of WSO IBers were hoping banks wouldn't implement raises for junior talent in markets so they could jerk off over how S&T is dying and validate to themselves that they made the right decision. Fact is banks are putting their money where their mouth is and that says a lot about how these places see S&T as a business; I tend to err on the side of viewing that as validation instead of taking to heart what seniors in college who can only cope with working by 100+ hours by putting down other professions have to say about S&T.
I’m in IB and would like to switch to s&t, so I love seeing this.
While I agree there is a ton of S&T hate on this form, calling this a tailwind for the business is a bit premature. What you have so far is a couple of banks announcing increased junior pay that will most likely not be effective until 2022, not a wide spread pay increase across the street. I do think all the other banks will follow suit, and will raise junior level S&T salaries to the levels that they are paying junior bankers but I don't think that means all that much until you start seeing bonuses for S&T at the junior levels.
In terms of the bigger picture you really won't know much until banks start announcing compensation per person in various lines of business. If the total comp pool is relatively unchanged and there is not increased hiring then I have a hard time calling this a tailwind for the business and more of just a standardizing of junior salaries across various functions at the firm. Call me a skeptic but I am in wait and see mode.
Completely fair assessment.
I'm operating under the assumption that this will cascade across all BBs across the street and that it will lift total comp at the junior levels (with less of an effect the higher you go up the chain). Wait and see is definitely the best mentality here. However I will say it's much better than if IB got these raises and S&T didn't (which was the fear for a hot second there).
Could someone confirm if internal announcements have been made yet?
I'm in one of the firms that raised pay but haven't heard anything
where you at Citigroup Global Markets?
No news at barclays....
i wonder if the european banks and citi will stay put at 85k
It appears a few of the French banks have committed to raises!
https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/todayuknews.com/finance/bnp-paribas-joi…
Nothing at barx yet, unfortunately...
Where tf my money at?!
Anyone have any news for UK offices for S&T (trading specifically) in banks? Doesn't seem like salary raises have transferred over from US yet??
Rumours that CS has now also raised for markets and research, anyone confirm? Barclays next?
First the nice jackets and now the pay raises. I'm honestly thinking of leaving Citi
did CS actually raise? Have not seen confirmation of this still
Just signed an ft offer letter/contract at one of the BBs that didnt/hasnt announced S&T raises (European BBs/Citi), the offer is still at the old levels (USD85k/GBP50k). Just wondering if yall think there’s a chance that they might still give us a raise before we start in 2022? Or is the contract definitely final?
curious as well, highly doubt that they'll stay at 85k, especially Citi with the new CEO, I expect them to bump to 100k, which is on par with what they did for their bankers.
Signed an FT offer with one of the BBs that has raised and I still got the old salary on the letter. I asked about it and they basically said "we'll let you know".
If other BBs raise as well, when do yall think they would do it?
there are no other BBs left to raise other than Citi
Has DB/barclays announced raises?
did i miss or did citi already raised markets pay?
Nothing yet
huh! that's weird. Given how the management appears as people focused and all that. must be awkward to be the only BB still at 85k or maybe they'll later come in BSD at 110-120k?
anyone hear anything lately?
I'm at Barclays, haven't heard anything. Hey HR, people aren't happy about it...
Any news recently?
Non-BB
Got an offer for A1 - old salary levels. :(
Nomura SA 100k
Is it under snt or ibd?
This is snt or global markets for SA lol
If Nomura switched, Barclays, DB have to get a move on...yikes...
What's the new associate pay bands for banks that raised bases?
Similar to ibd? (175 200 225?)
i’m still looking for new assoc/vp bases too
Do any of the banks still prop trade ? What are the highest paying desks ?
Wrong forum - can't really prop trade other than treasuries and agency MBS, maybe one other I'm forgetting about...
Distressed debt desk is coveted amongst the SA's to rotate with. If CLO and other Structured Credit sit in S&T, those are pretty good seats and the big firms. HY and LevLoans are popular in the HF/CLO world, IG and HY are big on the asset manager side (Pimco, blackrock)
Each product is different, have to do what you find interesting, understand, and will be good at. HY is different than FX, but if you're the head of either one you'll be clearing 1mm per year easy.
At the end of the day, if you're the best trader or head of the desk in anything you'll make more than a mediocre VP trading the 'best' product.
Yes, those that have S&T but don't have deposits in the US (are not under volcker rule). Jefferies and Nomura do prop, but have also heard GS ignores the volcker rule lol
With Truist raising their base, does this mean Citi is the last to raise for S&T??
Barclays hasnt raised either
What did Truist bump to?
Why would Citi raise? They have a racial audit to do; stop being so selfish!
In all seriousness, they sent an internal email about it. To reverse the pay gap, they decided new An1 S&T would be $100k for women and $79k for men.
nah bro u trippin
did nomura raise
Yes, my SA offer for SnT is 100k base.
Are you US? In HK they doing ~83k base. Kinda angry to hear y'all r getting 100 haha
No
Who the fuck would join Citi/Barclays when you could make 20% at a better name brand and bank in Ms/Jp/Gs. GG with the talent war lol. Even more important for S&T than IB considering we aren't ppt monkeys
Hello everybody,
Does the increase also affect the banks in the UK?
Any update on associate increases?
Should be 20-25k increase across the bord
Is s&t doing much hiring right now?
Big question for all the london markets analysts:
What is expected % base bonus for An 1 (not stub, full year)?
bump. Heard some news that there are some banks raising pay.
It’s a 25k bump across the board from the previous standards
Any news on citi base raises
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