Answering Australian I-Banking Questions!

Fredv2's picture
Rank: Baboon | 117

Hi all -

As i have been looking through this site, i have found their seems to be a lack on anything Australian. While that is understandable seeming as the industry is US focused, i thought i'd take the opportunity to try and develop a useful collection of tid-bits and facts by sharing some of the knowledge i have amassed regarding Australian I-banking.

Open to all questions, questions regarding Interns and Grad stuff is more my level of expertise, but im happy to have a go at anything Australian Banking related.

Just in the efforts of full disclosure, i have never worked in the banking industry, however i have acquired this odd hobby of learning lots about the industry in Australia. As such i can only be of use to a certain extent, therefore if there are any other Australia's out there that have any further knowledge of the industry or anything to add on these posts i would be much obliged if you would be able offer some of your insight.

Hope i can be of help

Cheers.

Region: 
Australia

Comments (117)

Jun 18, 2013

What is the fastest growing industry in Australia right now (if the answer is, as I expect, natural mineral resources, what besides that?) How much is the Australian government involved in the economy?

And on a completely non-banking related note, what are the trends for Australia demographically? Is it going the way of most European-heritage countries and becoming more non-European or is that trend negligible down under?

Thanks for doing this!

"Yes. Money has been a little bit tight lately, but at the end of my life, when I'm sitting on my yacht, am I gonna be thinking about how much money I have? No. I'm gonna be thinking about how many friends I have and my children and my comedy albums."

Best Response
Jul 6, 2013
SilvioBerlusconi:

What is the fastest growing industry in Australia right now (if the answer is, as I expect, natural mineral resources, what besides that?) How much is the Australian government involved in the economy?

And on a completely non-banking related note, what are the trends for Australia demographically? Is it going the way of most European-heritage countries and becoming more non-European or is that trend negligible down under?

Thanks for doing this!

To try and answer your first question, in the last give or take 3 years, there has been a huge amount of commentary on saying we are in a two speed economy, so basically we were getting incredible growth of our natural resource companies so BHP and Rio Tinto were making ridiculous amounts of money due to the demand being generated out of china for mainly Iron Ore but also Copper and some others metals - excluding aluminium and alumina - as well as natural gases such as LNG.

So basically we have had large growth in the natural resources with a languishing retain sector, so our retail sector has been really in the doldrums. My theory is 3 part, initially its because as a result of the strong resource sector; we had high interest rates for cash deposits and government bonds that wasn't felt in Europe of North America which drove the AUD historically very high versus the EUR, the GBP and the USD. Secondly wage growth was being shown in places where mining was taking place such as WA on the western side of Australia, whereas the bulk part of the Australian 'White collar' economy generates growth out of Sydney (NSW) or Melbourne (VIC). So NSW, would have been in a recession as a state even tho Australia as a whole was growing due to the mining influence. Also alot of these companies were involved in duopolies or alike and didnt have much of an internet presence big chains like David Jones, Myer, etc so they were hit from all sides such as; not much discretionary spending in Sydney and Melbourne, and the ability to spend what money you do have on cheaper products overseas due to the exchange rate and their lack of internet shopping.

In the 6-12 months the mining industry has changed a bit; firstly there is fear that there will be a larger than expected drop off in China's growth and its demand for resources,

as well as, due to the high iron ore price there has been a huge rush to expand mine capacities which means starting from about 2014-15 ish there will be a large onset of extra iron ore coming on line which will bump the supply and demand graph, to there being too much supply which will drive the prices down. And so as a result of the added supply the price of iron ore and expected resulting lower margins their share prices have been pumped, like the Majors are down anywhere from 30-50%, with Minors which either havnt started or only just started production down even more.

As the price of iron ore comes down, my guess on the industries that are growing the most would probably still be LNG, as the price of that is still high in the Asia region and there are lots of projects being built and ready to come on line in the next year to 3 or 4. So we have had huge international energy companies teaming with domestic players spending 10's of billions of dollars developing LNG plants.

Also due to all the construction, the cost of labour has increased dramatically, so mining and related constructions companies have done exceedingly well.

Also a note on our banking system, while it isnt recording double digit growth, it is still growing at 5-8% pa the four of them and are exceedingly healthy and making alot of money. They avoided pretty much all bad debts as the australian property market held firm through the GFC and as of a month or so ago they were all trading at Pre GFC high's although they have eased back slightly recently.

The governments been involved to a different extent that the US. For example they have issued little to no stimulus or anything like QE, however they did try and tax our major mining companies which was an interesting news story, it led to 1 prime minister out of a job, and because their profits have now dropped, has really added no extra tax income for the government, so basically this government wont get re elected this coming year either.

To summarise, we dont have any hugely fast growing industries, we are reasonably mature in all the major industries.

Im not exactly sure what u mean by Non-European however we have an ageing population, so we have a abnormally large amount of adults (historically) getting ready to retire in the next 5-10 years which will put a strain on taxes and infrastructure. In saying that i would guess the best growing industry in Australia may be something health care related, has seen and will see some good growth in the next 5-10.

That response was longer than i was originally planning, but i hope that kinda made sense and answered your questions.

    • 4
Jun 19, 2013

Wow very detailed answers but I appreciate it, glad I got to learn about how crucial the mining sector really is.

"Non-European" is a PC term I used for "non-white" as in aboriginals, polynesians, asians, arabs, etc. What i was asking is; is Australia, like Europe and North America, experiencing massive changes from being predominately "white" to be far more mixed.

Again, thanks for doing that.

"Yes. Money has been a little bit tight lately, but at the end of my life, when I'm sitting on my yacht, am I gonna be thinking about how much money I have? No. I'm gonna be thinking about how many friends I have and my children and my comedy albums."

Jun 19, 2013

Check this out, theres some information regarding where the population of Australia was born.

Im not sure if this answers your question, but thats the best i could find.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/2071.0main+features902012-2013

    • 1
Jun 19, 2013

I'm not planning anything like this right now, but I'm still curious about it: What non-Australian schools are targets for IBD in Australia and how hard is it to get a work visa?. I.e., how hard is it to move to down under as a fresh grad or a first/second year analyst?

Jun 19, 2013

Source on the base + stubs?

Jun 19, 2013

Just wanted to clarify; as you see if you have a look at the league tables its pretty dominated by o/s players. There is a real lack of home grown banks until you get into the more commercial activities like DCM and Syndicated Loans, where the home grown presence is much stronger.

Jun 19, 2013

I'd like to respond to A&B's q with the fact that getting a Visa in Australia is more difficult than one for the US. There's a literal tonne of red-tape which prevents internationals from working locally.

Applying as a first year, unless you have some amazing connections, you have literally near-nil chance.

Sep 11, 2014

Really? I know a lot of people from Asias immigrated to Australia as they said the system in Australia and Canada is easier than that of US.

Jun 16, 2015

-

Jun 19, 2013

What advices would you give to a recent graduate who wants to break into IB/ER? I am a Sydney-sider though finding difficulties to get in because I stuffed up the junior years. Recruitment seems more formal and networking seems to have less emphasis.

Jul 27, 2013

.

Jun 19, 2013

Hey mate

Thanks heaps for starting this. I have been waiting ages for some Australian information.

Can you give us some background on yourself?

Are you currently working in IB? If so what was your path etc.

Jun 19, 2013

Question: Don't you think it's funny when people say, "throw another shrimp on the barbie"?

Jun 19, 2013

Question: After Macquarie gave all analysts 10K stubs, how did rep of grp fair w/ respect to preftige/img ?

"so i herd u liek mudkipz" - sum kid
"I'd watergun the **** outta that." - Kassad

Jun 19, 2013

What degree did you study and how did you go about securing internships and grad offers?

Jun 19, 2013

Great to see some Aussies on the board. I have quite a few Qs if anybody has any input:

1. What are the best sources of information to keep up to date with IB news in Australia apart from the AFR's capital section?

2. Is there any way I can easily access all the deals a certain firm has worked on?

3. Any advice as to how to answer the question "why do you want to work at our firm?" when the firm in question has been pretty much absent from the league tables this year? For example it would be fairly easy to talk about UBS and Macquarie's market share but not about some other firms.

4. How bad have layoffs been in IBD the past couple of years?

Jun 19, 2013
DotteringandSpl...:
renitent.precept:

Source on the base + stubs?

http://dealbreaker.com/2013/05/bonus-watch-13-macq....

I thought it seemed about ball park; seeming it was an alright year at Mac Cap they made a profit of 150MM - even though it wasn't anywhere the near the highs pre GFC, however wasn't a terrible year like the last few where they had some negative years in that division. However i didn't know anyone in the Analyst class this year.

What are your thoughts?

Perhaps some analysts went home with 10k stubs but I still question the source. To start, Mac Cap pays 1st year analysts >100k base in Oz which is commensurate with street, perhaps even a little lower. On top of that bonuses for the last few years have been ~20-30% of base. Not bad by any means, especially given the current environment..

Jun 19, 2013
Biotechguy:

What advices would you give to a recent graduate who wants to break into IB/ER? I am a Sydney-sider though finding difficulties to get in because I stuffed up the junior years. Recruitment seems more formal and networking seems to have less emphasis.

Hard to be detailed without exactly knowing your whole situation but ill try to give you some broad advice.

The industry in Australia is much smaller than o/s therefore there doesn't seem to be the abundance on places you can actually apply for intern and grad roles. If you are a recent grad my advice would be to have a search around the league tables in Australia that i posted in one posts above and apply for all their graduate programs.

Im not sure about less emphasis, i haven't had any experience about how networking and the formality of hiring in the US but i imagine it would be reasonably similar.

If you have trouble with getting a grad position you have a few options,

i) try to network through alumni, i don't know what university you went to but usually you will be able to find some alumni that are working in a financial sector that will be able to offer you advice and help. Also Alumni's are much more likely to help than say someone you emailed on LinkedIn,

ii) There are many ways to get into IB - you dont just need to start at an entry level position, you can come across as an experienced hire. Try getting a job at a financial firm that is similar to what you want to do in IB. so for example you could try and get a position at a big 4 or even one of the ASX 200 in a financial role.

Note - Grad positions are the best way after you have finished uni, but you can definitely do it without them. Good luck

    • 1
Jun 19, 2013
australian.fina...:

Hey mate

Thanks heaps for starting this. I have been waiting ages for some Australian information.

Can you give us some background on yourself?

Are you currently working in IB? If so what was your path etc.

Just to clarify for everyone, i haven't actually worked in banking so i cant give you any on the job experience. However i can share with you some of my knowledge regarding information i have collected on the subject. As such its always great if someone with an actual working environment of banking could offer input as well. Sorry if it came across as having actually worked in banking, that was not my intention.

Jun 19, 2013
prospie:

Question: Don't you think it's funny when people say, "throw another shrimp on the barbie"?

haha a bit yes. I mean its all well and good the people from the rest of the world are thinking of us, but i mean what the hells a shrimp and don't you guys eat prawns

Jun 16, 2015
diverse_kanga:
DotteringandSpl...:
renitent.precept:

Source on the base + stubs?

http://dealbreaker.com/2013/05/bonus-watch-13-macq....

I thought it seemed about ball park; seeming it was an alright year at Mac Cap they made a profit of 150MM - even though it wasn't anywhere the near the highs pre GFC, however wasn't a terrible year like the last few where they had some negative years in that division. However i didn't know anyone in the Analyst class this year.

What are your thoughts?

Perhaps some analysts went home with 10k stubs but I still question the source. To start, Mac Cap pays 1st year analysts >100k base in Oz which is commensurate with street, perhaps even a little lower. On top of that bonuses for the last few years have been ~20-30% of base. Not bad by any means, especially given the current environment..

mudkipz:

Question: After Macquarie gave all analysts 10k stubs, how did rep of grp fair w/ respect to preftige/img ?

see clarification from the above poster; that the salary number and bonus numbers are wrong for AU. US numbers?

Macquarie this year is 1st or 2nd on the league table for announced and completed M&A so far, therefore i believe the prestige and image will be looking pretty good within Australia. But again they are still struggling to get any real traction outside Australia, especially in EMEA and North America.

Jun 16, 2015
poker_face:

What degree did you study and how did you go about securing internships and grad offers?

Advice on internships -

Basics steps to walk through that seem to lead to the best chance of getting intern or grad jobs.

1 - If possible try to get into a Go8, because IB's have a campus presence, so it gives you a much higher visibility rate.

2 - Pick a degree subject that you enjoy and can get good marks. Ideally pick something business related

3 - Get good grades, you want to be looking at a WAM around or exceeding 75 ish as a general rule, as that gives you the best chance. Note; it must be above 65 or a credit because some IB's; for interns and grad roles require at that as a minimum or you cant apply.

4 - Best way to get a grad position is to have had an internship the previous year. In bad years all the grad positions may even be filled with previous interns.

5 - If you don't get an internships in IB dont give you, get yourself an internship at a big4 in something similar to you want to work, or anywhere that is finance related to show the recruiters and or interviewer that you have taken steps to get some type of financial experience.

6 - And remember, whether your convinced your going to get an internship and especially if your unsure, play it safe and Network and develop relationships with people in and around the industry. If your unsure where to start, try reaching out to your university alumni. They are most likely to return your call or email and to give you advice because of the inbuilt connection you have with them.

    • 1
Jun 19, 2013
diverse_kanga:
DotteringandSpl...:
renitent.precept:

Source on the base + stubs?

http://dealbreaker.com/2013/05/bonus-watch-13-macq....

I thought it seemed about ball park; seeming it was an alright year at Mac Cap they made a profit of 150MM - even though it wasn't anywhere the near the highs pre GFC, however wasn't a terrible year like the last few where they had some negative years in that division. However i didn't know anyone in the Analyst class this year.

What are your thoughts?

Perhaps some analysts went home with 10k stubs but I still question the source. To start, Mac Cap pays 1st year analysts >100k base in Oz which is commensurate with street, perhaps even a little lower. On top of that bonuses for the last few years have been ~20-30% of base. Not bad by any means, especially given the current environment..

Id certainly be happy with that, especially considering the deal flow hasn't been anything like stellar. Thanks for the clarification on numbers!!! Appreciate you taking the time

Jun 19, 2013

When are we establishing a WSO Sydney networking event?

Jun 19, 2013

Just wanted to put a note out to aspiring monkeys in their Second Last Year; Applications for Internships at the the big Investment banks in Australia are rapidly coming to a close. If you've been thinking I-Banking is something your interested in, get yourself an internship. You have approximately ~ 1 week left to submit your applications.

Grad Connections will give you the closing times of the positions and is a really useful tool that shows you when Banks and other industries are open for Internships and Graduate positions. Check it out if your interested!

http://www.gradconnection.com.au/internships/investment-banking/

More than happy to give you my 2 cents about how your resume looks if your interested.

Good luck to all you prospective monkeys!

Jun 19, 2013

the above is referring to melbourne positions - sydney doesnt close until july

Oct 25, 2013
WildColonialBoy:

When are we establishing a WSO Sydney networking event?

Good question!!! Would need to have a chat to one of the Admins. However unsure if there would be enough interest?

    • 1
Jun 19, 2013

Would fly from QLD for this.....

Jun 16, 2015
rmb:

Great to see some Aussies on the board. I have quite a few Qs if anybody has any input:

1. What are the best sources of information to keep up to date with IB news in Australia apart from the AFR's capital section?

2. Is there any way I can easily access all the deals a certain firm has worked on?

3. Any advice as to how to answer the question "why do you want to work at our firm?" when the firm in question has been pretty much absent from the league tables this year? For example it would be fairly easy to talk about UBS and Macquarie's market share but not about some other firms.

4. How bad have layoffs been in IBD the past couple of years?

1 - The AFR is a really good one as you've already said, you could check out Bloomberg, although its mostly EMEA and North America, their will be some Australia stuff on their. And then just any other financial press you can get your hands on.

Also potentially this may be useful

http://www.eurekareport.com.au

Its an online financial news website - Some of the features require paid membership, however you can create a free account and get access to some pretty good content.

2 - Im not sure about this one, the only thing i can think of would be their websites, i know Lazard in Australia keeps a record of some of their M&A transactions on their website. Im not are about anyone else, you would just have to go searching i think.... Lazard are actually doing really well this year, 1st in announced deals year to date.

If anyone else has any suggestions about up to date M&A information and how to readily find that, it would be great!!

3 - Depending on how much information you can find on the firm, you could pick a specific sector you are interested in that they have done well in or you just know they have completed deals.

4 - Don't have any broad information about collective of IB's in Australia or any other specific ones atm, however i will see if i can find some of the other players headcount reduction numbers.

Hope that was useful, Sorry i couldn't be more specific.

    • 2
Jun 19, 2013
diverse_kanga:
DotteringandSpl...:
renitent.precept:

Source on the base + stubs?

http://dealbreaker.com/2013/05/bonus-watch-13-macq....

I thought it seemed about ball park; seeming it was an alright year at Mac Cap they made a profit of 150MM - even though it wasn't anywhere the near the highs pre GFC, however wasn't a terrible year like the last few where they had some negative years in that division. However i didn't know anyone in the Analyst class this year.

What are your thoughts?

Perhaps some analysts went home with 10k stubs but I still question the source. To start, Mac Cap pays 1st year analysts >100k base in Oz which is commensurate with street, perhaps even a little lower. On top of that bonuses for the last few years have been ~20-30% of base. Not bad by any means, especially given the current environment..

Macquarie used to be known as the millionaire's factory. It has seemed that this reputation has waned...

    • 1
Jun 19, 2013

not cert'd, bs i call

Jun 16, 2015

-

Jun 19, 2013
caribe_mexicano:

the above is referring to melbourne positions - sydney doesnt close until july

Yer sorry about that, forgot to say in Melbourne! Thanks for the clarification.

Jun 19, 2013

How would people rank the BB IBs in Australia in terms of career development and best ones to work for?
Preliminary thoughts:
1. UBS - best deal flow historically and [good?] culture. Heard some teams can be a sweat shop
2. Goldmans - solid deal flow. General high performer and [good?] culture
3. JP Morgan - good deal flow. Not sure about culture?
4. DB - average deal flow for a BB, but good overall. I've heard fairly average culture
5. Credit Suisse - good deal flow, but I've heard is a sweat shop.
6. Citi - no idea about them, but have poached some good guys from Goldmans.
7. Morgan Stanley - good culture?, but low deal flow.
8. ML - low deal flow, hired one day, fired the next?
9. Barclays - given up on Australia yet?

Discuss.

Jun 16, 2015
Milton123:

How would people rank the BB IBs in Australia in terms of career development and best ones to work for?

Preliminary thoughts:

1. UBS - best deal flow historically and [good?] culture. Heard some teams can be a sweat shop

2. Goldmans - solid deal flow. General high performer and [good?] culture

3. JP Morgan - good deal flow. Not sure about culture?

4. DB - average deal flow for a BB, but good overall. I've heard fairly average culture

5. Credit Suisse - good deal flow, but I've heard is a sweat shop.

6. Citi - no idea about them, but have poached some good guys from Goldmans.

7. Morgan Stanley - good culture?, but low deal flow.

8. ML - low deal flow, hired one day, fired the next?

9. Barclays - given up on Australia yet?

Discuss.

List looks realistic, just to add MS are doing pretty well this year in M&A so far And DB aren't even in the top 10 for Announced or Completed YTD. From memory i think they were a fair bit out of the top half last year too.

And yer Barclays is having a bit of trouble.

I cant give you any advice on culture. So if anyone else would like to elaborate on all this and especially take a stab at the culture.

Jun 19, 2013

Agreed - You are right about Macq. should be top 3. heard it's not the best culture though.

Jun 19, 2013
Milton123:

Agreed - You are right about Macq. should be top 3. heard it's not the best culture though.

What do you mean when you say its not the best culture. Could you elaborate?

I have no internal knowledge about their culture but my view is as an industry its never going to be fairies and rainbows because you are working so very much, and your compensation is in line with that. In saying that i understand their are some banks that get a reputation for being 'sweat shops'. But i imagine Macq are trying to create a culture that can achieve success in their local market which they have proven and then leverage that internationally to try and compete with existing firms and take market share with the goal to become a global player, which they are in the process of attempting albeit in a tough environment.

Jun 19, 2013

It looks like Deutsche is making a big DCM push. I think they used some of their balance sheet with a Qantas deal a couple months ago.

Jun 16, 2015
renitent.precept:

It looks like Deutsche is making a big DCM push. I think they used some of their balance sheet with a Qantas deal a couple months ago.

DCM is normally pretty much dominated by the Big 4 Commercial Banks In Australia.

Jun 20, 2013

I'm pretty sure it's a recent strategy. They weren't doing that well last year, though I could be wrong. There was a good write up in the AFR around the time the Qantas deal was announced, though I don't remember the author.

Jun 20, 2013

Thanks for the info on that. Ill go try and hunt down that article!

Jun 20, 2013

http://www.afr.com/p/markets/capital/qantas_bond_d...

We'll let them forget that asylum boat they 'sponsored'.

Jun 20, 2013

Haha we'll let them forget just this one time!
Cheers for the article - Cant believe DB got the first bonds issued by Qantas in Australia since 2003. Thats a pretty big score!

Jun 20, 2013

A lot of banks and advisory firms in Australia have been quite active on DCM roles. Not a bad team to enter into from a career stability and progression point of view.

Dotter - Culture is a tough one to define. I assume that one works hard everywhere of course, though there are some places that simply break good people (e.g. Caliburn). I suppose it comes down to your personality and what suits people individually. It becomes particularly hard to generalise for BB b/c the culture you work in is heavily determined by the MDs/VPs, and there will be many of them. Whereas with boutiques, it's driven by a smaller number of individuals and fed down. That said, the general consensus from what I have heard is that some IBD teams (UBS, Goldmans) tend to have a relatively stronger collegiate culture, while others (e.g. Macq) are perceived to be relatively arrogant. Obviously, not everyone in the banks reflects a generalised view.

Jun 20, 2013

Milton - Thanks for the response, as a whole what you said makes a lot of sense.
I totally concur with you regarding culture, w/o working at a specific bank, it would be extremely hard to define their culture, as the picture broadcast to the media and the details you hear from acquaintances etc isn't necessarily anything like what is actually happening internally. As you said because at the BB's it could change depending on the MD or VP.

Jun 20, 2013

Nice post. I'm an Aussie, I'm studying in the US now at a non-target - I'm a student athlete at a 'powerhouse' athletic school. I have an internship with a BB and I'm trying to break into the industry back in Sydney upon graduation. It's just super hard to network when I am so far away.

Any advice in terms of networking. Ie. Cold emailing/cold calling. Are people receptive to those who study overseas?

Jun 20, 2013

I think US experience and education will be viewed very favourably. I would just recommend that you read up on the Australian market and major Australian companies and deals first.

I personally don't think people would be that receptive to cold calling or emailing, however not sure if Linkedin is changing this? I think try get a friend to introduce you to other friends in IB.

Jun 20, 2013

Thanks for the reply. I actually spoke to my dad this morning and he's going to introduce me to a gentleman he does business with who happens to be a hedge fund manager... thanks dad for not telling me this earlier. Hopefully I can leverage some network out of that.

This will seem like an absolute rookie question, but where can I read up on deals made in Aus? I have a pretty good sense of the market, not amazing but I'm working on it.

Jun 20, 2013
Milton123:

When I was at Uni and applying for IB jobs, I personally found Aust. Fin. Review the best. If you have access to to a Bloomberg report, or Thomson's database, then download all the major Australian deals and read about them in the press.

Just to agree with Milton123 for some solidarity, The Financial Review in Australia seems to be the best! You could also try and have a read of;

http://www.eurekareport.com.au

Its an online financial news website - Some of the features require paid membership, however you can create a free account and get access to some pretty good content.

Jun 20, 2013

When I was at Uni and applying for IB jobs, I personally found Aust. Fin. Review the best. If you have access to to a Bloomberg report, or Thomson's database, then download all the major Australian deals and read about them in the press.

Jun 21, 2013
DotteringandSpl...:
SilvioBerlusconi:

What is the fastest growing industry in Australia right now (if the answer is, as I expect, natural mineral resources, what besides that?) How much is the Australian government involved in the economy?

And on a completely non-banking related note, what are the trends for Australia demographically? Is it going the way of most European-heritage countries and becoming more non-European or is that trend negligible down under?

Thanks for doing this!

To try and answer your first question, in the last give or take 3 years, there has been a huge amount of commentary on saying we are in a two speed economy, so basically we were getting incredible growth of our natural resource companies so BHP and Rio Tinto were making ridiculous amounts of money due to the demand being generated out of china for mainly Iron Ore but also Copper and some others metals - excluding aluminium and alumina - as well as natural gases such as LNG.

So basically we have had large growth in the natural resources with a languishing retain sector, so our retail sector has been really in the doldrums. My theory is 3 part, initially its because as a result of the strong resource sector; we had high interest rates for cash deposits and government bonds that wasn't felt in Europe of North America which drove the AUD historically very high versus the EUR, the BGP and the USD. Secondly wage growth was being shown in places where mining was taking place such as WA on the western side of Australia, whereas the bulk part of the Australian 'White collar' economy generates growth out of NSW or Melbourne in more traditional. So NSW, would have been in a recession as a state even tho Australia as a whole was growing due to the mining influence. Also alot of these companies were involved in duopolies or alike and didnt have much of an internet presence big chains like David Jones, Myer, etc so they were hit from all sides such as; not much discretionary spending in NSW and Melbourne, and the ability to spend what money you do have on cheaper products overseas due to the exchange rate and their lack of internet shopping.

In the 6-12 months the mining industry has changed a bit; firstly there is fear that there will be a larger than expected drop off in China's growth and its demand for resources

as well as, due to the high iron ore price there has been a huge rush to expand mine capacities which means starting from about 2014-15 ish there will be a large onset of extra iron ore coming on line which will bump the supply and demand graph, to there being too much supply which will drive the prices down. And so as a result of the expected lower margin and added supply the price of iron ore and expected lower margins their share prices have been pumped, like the Majors are down anywhere from 30-50%, with Minors either havnt started or only just started production down even more.

As the price of iron ore comes down , my guess on the industries that are growing the most would probably still be LNG, as the price of that is still high in the Asia region and there are lots of projects being built and ready to come on line in the next year to 3 or 4. So we have had huge international energy companies teaming with domestic players spending 10's of billions of dollars developing LNG plants.

Also due to all the construction, the cost of labour has increased dramatically, so mining and related constructions companies have done exceedingly well.

Also a note on our banking system, while it isnt recording double digit growth, it is still growing at 5-8% pa the four of them and are exceedingly healthy and making alot of money. They avoided pretty much all bad debts as the australian property market held firm through the GFC and as of a month or so ago they were all trading at Pre GFC high's although they have eased back slightly recently.

The governments been involved to a different extent that the US. For example they have issued little to no stimulus or anything like QE, however they did try and tax our major mining companies which was an interesting news story, it led to 1 prime minister out of a job, and because their profits have now dropped, has really added no extra tax income for the government, so basically this government wont get re elected this coming year either.

To summarise, we dont have any hugely fast growing industries, we are reasonably mature in all the major industries.

Im not exactly sure what u mean by Non-European however we have an ageing population, so we have a abnormally large amount of adults (historically) getting ready to retire in the next 5-10 years which will put a strain on taxes and infrastructure. In saying that i would guess the best growing industry in Australia may be something health care related, has seen and will see some good growth in the next 5-10.

That response was longer than i was originally planning, but i hope that kinda made sense and answered your questions.

Silver bannana'd, great post

Jul 27, 2013

Cheers Husky32 - Appreciate the feedback!

Jun 21, 2013

Hey nice thread. Iwould like to know what university programs are target for physical majors like BHP and Rio to get physical trading positions. How difficult is it to get in thoses programs without being an Australian citizent? Can I get citizentship easily?

Jun 21, 2013

I don't think they recruit traders straight out of university.

Jun 21, 2013
rmb:

1. What are the best sources of information to keep up to date with IB news in Australia apart from the AFR's capital section?

2. Is there any way I can easily access all the deals a certain firm has worked on?

4. How bad have layoffs been in IBD the past couple of years?

1. The AFR is really the best source
2. Try to find a Bloomberg terminal, most Unis should have one or two. Start with LEAGUE.
4. They have been brutal across the board.

Jun 21, 2013
DotteringandSpl...:
above_and_beyond:

I'm not planning anything like this right now, but I'm still curious about it: What non-Australian schools are targets for IBD in Australia and how hard is it to get a work visa?. I.e., how hard is it to move to down under as a fresh grad or a first/second year analyst?

It will comes down to a prestige factor. Not prestige in the same way regarding applying for BB in North America but more like "if you went to a school in America that wasn't well known in America then chances are recruiters in Australia will not have heard about it." So if you went to an Ivy the recruiters are more likely to have known the school and therefore that is beneficial for you.

There are very few actual Australian IB that arnt say Goldman or MS's Australian branch. We really only have Macquarie Group as a global presence and while they are constantly in the top 3 in M&A for Australia they aren't even challenging any of the BB's at the high end overseas.

Therefore i would suggest going to their Target schools of the banks that have Australian operations to be safe.

Check out the league tables at the moment for Australia for big players in Australia, and then you would be able to find the target schools of those bank back home.

http://www.afr.com/markets/capital/dealogic/

I dont think the banks target international students for example i know they don't fly over to America and recruit at an Ivy. Thus dont have any 'set' international targets.

Just a note on the banking culture in Australia, its little different to the US and the UK, - less hours, less pay. Think of it basically as a smaller and less intense version. While doing the same stuff just a little bit less hardcore.

For example this year i believe 1st year Analysts at Macquarie had a base around ~ 70k AUD and ended up with across the board 10k stubs.

Skilled visa's - The best way to get one would be to move internally to Australia through an existing bank, for example move from BB in the US to the BB's Australian division. That way your employer could potentially help facilitate this procedure. However Iv never actually been involved in a visa process, so you would have to do some extra reading.

See link below if your interested in reading about it further re; getting a visa in general in Australia, -not specific to banking-

http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-mig...

Thanks for you insights!
Very interesting to read some stuff about Australian IB. I'm definitely following this thread.
SB'd as well!

Jul 26, 2013

Thanks above_and_beyond. Appreciate the feedback!

Jun 21, 2013

Hey all -

I had some interest in an Australian Networking event, as such i have created a thread;

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/wso-catchup-...

If any Australia's (or you happen to be in Australia coming up) and are interested, just write something down saying your keen and then we can see what state etc would be logistically the best!

Looking forward to it.

Cheers

Jun 21, 2013

Hi all, great thread. Any ideas how to get in to S&T in Sydney? Specifically for commods or equity derivs? What are the top banks/hf/prop shops and what are the best heathunters there? Thanks!

Jun 21, 2013
elfty:

Hi all, great thread. Any ideas how to get in to S&T in Sydney? Specifically for commods or equity derivs? What are the top banks/hf/prop shops and what are the best heathunters there? Thanks!

Just before i give you a list / some information, any chance you say whether you looking to come in as an advanced hire, or looking for interns / grad positions etc

Jun 22, 2013
TaTa:

Hey nice thread. Iwould like to know what university programs are target for physical majors like BHP and Rio to get physical trading positions. How difficult is it to get in thoses programs without being an Australian citizent? Can I get citizentship easily?

So without going into a big debate about prestige in relation to universities etc, the rule of thumb seems to be that Go8 universities helps your employment chances, which is basically Australia's equivalent of the Ivy league in America. What that Go8 basically is; it was developed in 1999 so that the leading group of universities (that did lots of research etc) could collectively seek to forward and further a certain set of characteristics that they've deemed to believe will help improve things surrounding Australian. If you want to have a further read of what they do, and they universities involved check out the link below.

http://www.go8.edu.au

Because the major resources companies i.e BHP, RIO, and Fortescue can probably be considered a major as well, because they all have such a large presence in Western Australia and while i don't have any data on hand that suggests this, i am under the impression that they would take a lot of graduate hires from universities in Western Australia.

Check out a list of all the major universities in Western Australia in Alphabetical order, there isn't that many.

http://www.mhscareers.com/ListofWAUniversities.html

Of those, the 'University of Western Australia' is part of the Go8.

In saying that i have very little knowledge regarding physical trading other than a base understanding of what you do and a bit about Glencore, and thus not sure the amount of positions and the volume in Australia or whether they do any at all. I would need clarification from someone on that.?

That being said, BHP and RIO do not do any graduate programs specifically for Physical trading in Australia, they just have one graduate program in Australia that rotates you through areas and divisions.

However if you are interested on specific information regarding Physical trading, i would highly suggest contacting them and talking about positions, and the ability to be a lateral or move internally.

Contacts;

BHP - http://www.bhpbilliton.com/home/contact/Pages/defa...

Rio - http://www.riotinto.com/aboutus/careers-8409.aspx

Fortescue - http://www.fmgl.com.au/people_and_careers/Contact_...

Now getting employment in regards to visa's i had someone else ask me this earlier and i wasn't 100% sure, however i have done some research and hopefully this is a bit of a better description for you and above_and_beyond's question.

above_and_beyond:

I'm not planning anything like this right now, but I'm still curious about it: What non-Australian schools are targets for IBD in Australia and how hard is it to get a work visa?. I.e., how hard is it to move to down under as a fresh grad or a first/second year analyst?

Employment visa's - My understanding is this, depending on what you want to do, and how long you want to stay here there are a number of different visa's available. For full time work and as a skilled worker the best bet seems to be the 457 visa.

Firstly - This gives your the right to work in Australia for up to 4 years.

Second - Without me going on about this too much detail about what it requires the biggest seems to be that you are required to have an organisation i.e someone offer you a job has to 'Sponsor' you.

You can get more info and learn how to apply in the link below about the requirements etc

http://www.immi.gov.au/skills/skillselect/index/vi...

Note; there are other visa's that let you into Australia that may be much more applicable to you, so check out

http://www.immi.gov.au

and navigate that website to learn more about it all the different types.

I hope that gave you some insight into Visa's and and sorry i couldn't give you much info about physical trading, however the best bet is to get in touch with the companies you are interested in and have a chat about how they would think is best to get into that career.

Jun 22, 2013

I've spoken to some recruiters about trading positions at BHP and Rio Tinto and they indicated that they don't recruit for that role out of university. I think they look to make lateral hires with experienced traders.
Having said that, these guys mainly look for engineers and the recruiters didn't seem to know much of the firms needs outside of the operational requirements (digging big holes).

Jun 22, 2013

For physical trading your best bet would be noble group, trafigura, glencore. I know they have trading floors in Singapore but not sure about aus.

Jun 22, 2013
DotteringandSpl...:
elfty:

Hi all, great thread. Any ideas how to get in to S&T in Sydney? Specifically for commods or equity derivs? What are the top banks/hf/prop shops and what are the best heathunters there? Thanks!

Just before i give you a list / some information, any chance you say whether you looking to come in as an advanced hire, or looking for interns / grad positions etc

Coming in as advance hire. Thanks.

Jun 22, 2013

G'day fellow Aussies

I'm working in IB and born and bred in Australia, so if any of you have specific questions, feel free to fire away!

Cheers

Oct 18, 2013

Hey, I am a Australia Citizen (born and raised in Sydney till about the 11th grade) and am studying at NYU. I am studying Econ and Business here and am wondering how the system in Australia works in terms of IBD? I am hoping to come back to Australia for an IB full time gig. Thanks!

Oct 18, 2013

What do you mean by the system?

The bulge brackets run internships from late November to late January/early February for penultimate (2nd last year) students and then they may be offered a grad position soon after they finish.

I am pretty sure grad programs start in February each year.

Not sure how the timing will work with your school. Also not sure what your work experience is, but I think it would be quite difficult to get a full-time gig straight away unless you had prior IBD experience at a firm of similar reputation.

Jun 23, 2013

@motionfx

I was wondering if you knew how difficult the technical Qs in interviews stages are for IB internships? I've looked at IB interview guides such as Vault and WSO and all the questions seem really basic so i'm not sure if I should be doing some more hardcore preparation?

Jun 23, 2013

Hi rmb

It really does depend on firm you interview with. But having said that, being overly prepared is better than the opposite.

The Vault and WSO guides from memory should be very helpful and generally reflect the type of questions you would be asked.

So things like knowing how to explain concisely how to do a DCF, transaction/trading multiples etc. are important.

What I would advise you to do speaking from experience is to find out about the types of industries your bank usually services. Say an investment bank that you are interviewing for does a lot of resources transactions, make sure you understand the nuances of how a DCF would work for a resources transaction. For example, in a typical DCF you would have a terminal value at the end valued using the perpetuity method. Does this apply to a mine with a finite mine life? Nope! Once the mine is depleted, there is nothing left, other than remediation costs etc.

So my point is to "know your audience", and think about what you're likely to be asked rather than give "cookie cutter" responses that every other interviewee would be giving.

Welcome more questions.

Jun 23, 2013
elfty:
DotteringandSpl...:
elfty:

Hi all, great thread. Any ideas how to get in to S&T in Sydney? Specifically for commods or equity derivs? What are the top banks/hf/prop shops and what are the best heathunters there? Thanks!

Just before i give you a list / some information, any chance you say whether you looking to come in as an advanced hire, or looking for interns / grad positions etc

Coming in as advance hire. Thanks.

motionfx, would you mind taking a stab at the above - Am a bit out of my depth on S&T questions

Jun 25, 2013

I've been working in M&A, so I'm not well versed with the S&T area.

Jun 26, 2013
elfty:

Hi all, great thread. Any ideas how to get in to S&T in Sydney? Specifically for commods or equity derivs? What are the top banks/hf/prop shops and what are the best heathunters there? Thanks!

Sorry i cant really give you much of an idea about S&T elfty. My best advice would be to check out the BB that have offices in Australia and get in contact with them. Also Macquarie, but basically just get in touch with any of the big overseas banks that have operations in Australia, you can just go on their Australian website and check if they have any S&T divisions in Australia. Also i believe the Big 4 banks in Australia have a reasonable presence in S&T. (ANZ, CBA, Westpac and NAB).

Jun 26, 2013
motionfx:

G'day fellow Aussies

I'm working in IB and born and bred in Australia, so if any of you have specific questions, feel free to fire away!

Cheers

Hey mate,

In your opinion, which are the better BB IBD teams to work for in Australia?

Jul 27, 2013

.

Jun 27, 2013
DotteringandSplutting..:
elfty:

Hi all, great thread. Any ideas how to get in to S&T in Sydney? Specifically for commods or equity derivs? What are the top banks/hf/prop shops and what are the best heathunters there? Thanks!

Sorry i cant really give you much of an idea about S&T elfty. My best advice would be to check out the BB that have offices in Australia and get in contact with them. Also Macquarie, but basically just get in touch with any of the big overseas banks that have operations in Australia, you can just go on their Australian website and check if they have any S&T divisions in Australia. Also i believe the Big 4 banks in Australia have a reasonable presence in S&T. (ANZ, CBA, Westpac and NAB).

okay, thanks !!

Jun 27, 2013
renitent.precept:

For those prospective Australian monkeys, Macquarie have just invited first round applicants for interviews in their Melbourne Summer Analyst internship.

Make sure you do your homework everyone. Macq is good for resources and infrastructure.

Happy intern hunting!

Jul 5, 2013

Hi guys, is anyone on here keen on talking about current M&A events in Australia? Need somebody to prep with as interviews are going to start on July 29. I've been reading WSJ MoneyBeat and AFR Capital but it seems that there is not much happening. Feel free to PM me if you are keen!

On a side note, has anybody been to the IB "Cocktail Events" that have been held recently? I went to the CS one and there are about 3 more or so that are on in the next couple of weeks.

Jul 6, 2013

Depending on what your looking to do, we could discuss recent M&A on this thread so more than two people can participate and jump in with their thoughts.

Jul 5, 2013

rmb, you are correct in that there isn't much happening. However for the sake of interviews, you should talk about what might or could happen. Think about industries that is ripe for consolidation. Think about the relevant companies. I'm interested to hear your views.

Jul 8, 2013

I'd say there is sufficient stuff to talk about, even if it's not the highs of '06 '07. Enough deals have happened recently to talk about.
Echo?
Billabong?
Fortesque?
Brambles?
iSelect?

Jul 6, 2013

This thread certainly isn't very useful. Lots of misinformation. The Macq salary at the start is... way off?

Jun 16, 2015

-

Jul 8, 2013
DotteringandSplutting..:
John-KP:

This thread certainly isn't very useful. Lots of misinformation. The Macq salary at the start is... way off?

I accidentally posted what seems to be the US salary, and after i was informed of that fact, i confirmed a couple of posts below that i got the salary number wrong, i just cant edit that post.

Is there any other parts that you feel are incorrect that should be changed - This threads goal was to be helpful to Australians so i really appreciate specific feedback!

I think this yr 1st yr mac bonus was c.35k (could be wrong though). But 70-80k is actually about right for 1st yr pay. what mac quote in an offer includes payroll tax, cost of blackberry / [laptop], so you have to be careful about that.

Jul 15, 2013

Any insight on institutional banking at a big 4 retail bank? How different is this to IB and can you lateral into IB from there? Hours/pay?

Jul 19, 2013
DotteringandSplutting..:

For example this year i believe 1st year Analysts at Macquarie had a base around ~ 70k AUD and ended up with across the board 10k stubs.

Not sure where you got this data from. Australia is one of the best places in the world to begin a career in IB. The base salaries for first years range from ~$95k to ~$120k. I'm not going to bother listing the specific numbers for each bank as it's quite meaningless to total take home pay after bonuses are factored in.

This is way higher than UK or the USA, and work is nowhere as hardcore as NY or London. The culture is generally quite good, and many teams will try and get out before 5 on a friday (again, this is very office and team specific).

However, the high pay is offset to some degree by higher taxes and probably one of the highest standards of living in the developed world. Anyone who has visited Australia will agree. The falling AUD doesn't help either.

Jul 19, 2013

What are the exit ops available and how do you take advantage of them? To my understanding it is much less common for analysts here to move to buy side/business schools after a two year stint.

Jul 19, 2013
eviloctal:

What are the exit ops available and how do you take advantage of them? To my understanding it is much less common for analysts here to move to buy side/business schools after a two year stint.

Network. There are exit ops everywhere, as long as you know where to look. There are many funds (small and large) and even asset management firms that people lateral into. Others go to work within corporate finance, BD teams etc. within other companies (BHP, Rio Tinto, Wesfarmers, Shell, Woodside etc.)

In fact, the number of people that lateral out after their first 1-3 years has caused some banks to face a shortage of Associates coming through their ranks at the moment.

There appears to be the idea that one must lateral to the buy-side... there are plenty other career opportunities than simply going to work for a fund. As for business school, that is much less common here. Also, the analyst stint is usually 3 years in Australia.

Jun 16, 2015

-

Jul 21, 2013
DotteringandSplutting..:
MS54:
DotteringandSplutting..:

For example this year i believe 1st year Analysts at Macquarie had a base around ~ 70k AUD and ended up with across the board 10k stubs.

Not sure where you got this data from. Australia is one of the best places in the world to begin a career in IB. The base salaries for first years range from ~$95k to ~$120k. I'm not going to bother listing the specific numbers for each bank as it's quite meaningless to total take home pay after bonuses are factored in.

This is way higher than UK or the USA, and work is nowhere as hardcore as NY or London. The culture is generally quite good, and many teams will try and get out before 5 on a friday (again, this is very office and team specific).

However, the high pay is offset to some degree by higher taxes and probably one of the highest standards of living in the developed world. Anyone who has visited Australia will agree. The falling AUD doesn't help either.

hey,

Your right the number i wrote is completely wrong, i think from memory it was from an article talking about the Mac numbers in the US; unfortunately i just cant edit that post for some reason!

However although your base is higher in Australia the bonus is going to be a much lower percentage of your base in AUS than the US, so your not going to walk out as a 1st year with your base plus 80-120% in bonus which can happens in the US.

Other than the high salary at the moment in OZ historically, Could you clarify what you mean by one of the best places to start a career?

I heard Credit Suisse were predicting AUD:USD to be 70:100 by about June 14' so that would hugely change the salary picture comparing it globally.

Total take home pay vs hours spent in the office (and intensity of work). You get paid less and worked harder in NY and London (generally), especially when the AUD was near 1.10 USD. That is starting to change, but its still a good place to begin.

Also, I think the days of bonuses being multiples of base salaries are long gone, or if they do happen, are more of the exception than the norm (I could be wrong). I can't comment on bonuses in Australia as I do not have much knowledge of numbers but they are definitely not multiples (not for analysts anyway). I'm not sure about the USA / Europe.

And for the purposes of discussion, lets just factor the currency issue out of the picture. Nobody can predict Macro changes with any degree of usable certainty. If they could, they would be profiting off the predictions, not releasing them to market. Even at 0.8, Australia probably pips USA / Europe, but yes that will change as it drops below that.

Jun 16, 2015

-

Jul 27, 2013

If you're able to be home by 6pm as a junior, the deal flow might be looking a bit too thin for comfort!

Jul 27, 2013

The hours and culture in Australia is a bit different from what you hear and read about IB in the US.

Aug 18, 2013

Great discussion. Any thoughts about which banks are growing most quickly/well-positioned in Australia? To comment on an above post- I'd say Macquarie is a BB in Australia (but not overseas), if you continue to define BB's as the banks with best deal flow. Disclaimer: I'm not interning at Mac Cap haha

Aug 23, 2013
notthehospitalER:

Great discussion. Any thoughts about which banks are growing most quickly/well-positioned in Australia? To comment on an above post- I'd say Macquarie is a BB in Australia (but not overseas), if you continue to define BB's as the banks with best deal flow. Disclaimer: I'm not interning at Mac Cap haha

My view / thoughts on growth for banks in Australia is really specific on a certain activity versus the bank being positioned as a whole for growth.

To clarify that; for example this year Lazard has been performing extremely well in the league tables for M&A in instances beating out some of the usual big established names.
Also DB and Citi have been performing well and getting involved in some nice offerings so far YTD in DCM. DB really scored a really nice underwriting in April this year when they got high profile work underwriting for Qantas. So i feel they are the most likely well positioned for growth and being able to challenge some of the Big 4 banks moving forward in the DCM space.

However just to note i am unsure if this is a recent change or historically DB and Citi have both been strong in DCM.

@notthehospitalER what are your thoughts on this going forward?

Aug 21, 2013

Hours will depend on how many 'relationship managers' in the group ie VP or above. If there are more senior guys than chances are each will have a few files running at the same time so the juniors will be staffed on them, hours are also a function of how 'live' or active the deal is. Sometimes you could be completely jammed up but all of a sudden it tones down. I work in a smaller shop so i would like to think there's less face time and more getting the work done.

Sep 12, 2013
Sep 13, 2013

Not banking related but I heard nomura axed most of the equities business (research analysts) in July

Sep 13, 2013

True, they consolidated the equities and fixed income businesses. Good news for bankers is they have maintained/intensified their efforts to beef up banking.

Nov 7, 2013

I just saw this! I'm in a similar situation to Hollow_Monks (though I'm at an Ivy League) - definitely applying for US graduate roles, but would love to consider moving back to Australia (or Singapore!) at some point (going a few years without seeing siblings isn't something I want to do for the rest of my life). Does anyone have any tips about networking in Australia despite being overseas?

I went to a pretty good high school in Melbourne, but most students go on to do medicine or law, so I don't know how strong the network would be...

Nov 11, 2013

@encore I would contact HR directly... if they see you went to a target overseas they make take more notice and potentially you could interview over skype?

@ssf whereabouts are you from? My Chinese friend did last couple of years of HS here and then went to Go8 school. He didn't have PR so all he could do was apply at small boutiques that didn't care about PR. You will not get past HR screening stage at BB firms without PR.

I think UK and US are even more competitive than down under... and heaps of the guys that get into IB down under are commlaw from go8, stellar marks, strong ECs as well as relevant work experience.

Nov 11, 2013

Not impossible to get transferred, but you'll have to put in a little time at the bank first obviously. More likely to get transferred to HK than the others, I believe.

I can say with confidence (having tried it myself) that you won't be considered for US IB if you're an international student with visa issues if applying from outside the US. Might be a different story if you're studying in the US and are a top candidate.

Nov 11, 2013

Thanks a lot, rmb. Given that I'm in my penultimate year, would it be worth contacting banks now to get an idea of whether they'll consider my resume for internships (very unlikely, but worth a shot?) or even if I can speak to someone in the bank when I'm visiting family in Australia?

Nov 11, 2013

Hey, I can speak to this a little because I'm going into IB in Australia this summer and I've spent a large part of my degree (including all of 2013) in the US.

I have been on a student exchange in the US for all of 2013 and returned home during the US summer for internship recruiting this past summer. I was fortunate enough to get the offers I wanted and will be starting in IB in australia in less than a month.

Banks will consider you as long as you won't have visa issues (you seem like you won't) in my opinion. However, the bigger issue is timing- I am leaving my US exchange almost a month early to do my internship, and they let me because I'm not a full-time student here and am only on exchange. Your US fall semester will clash with the internship start dates in Australia and unless your school will allow you to leave 4-6 weeks before the end of the fall semester and start the following spring semester a few weeks late (I imagine this will be impossible as a full-time student at the university) then you won't be eligible for Australian internships because the dates simply won't work.

Nov 11, 2013
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Nov 12, 2013
Oct 24, 2015