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Bulge Bracket and Elite Boutique Tiers

Premia's picture
Rank: King Kong | 1,683

Hey everyone, feel like we haven't had a good ol' argument/friendly discussion in a while. What would you say is the current tier list of investment banks in 2016 based on overall brand strength? If you have real balls, rank them with no ties (1a, 1b).

Ranking the Bulge Bracket and Elite Boutique Banks

Before looking at any rankings, it is important to note that these are subjective and can change at any point based on the deal flow at a given bank. These can also vary by group. Below are rankings contributed by our users.

  • Tier 1a: Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley
  • Tier 1b: JP Morgan
  • Tier 2a: Citi, Bank of America/Merrill Lynch, Credit Suisse, Barclays
  • Tier 2b: Deutsche Bank
  • Tier 3: UBS, Wells Fargo, Nomura, RBC, HSBC

Elite Boutique Investment Banking Rankings

  • Tier 1a: PJT, Centerview, Evercore, Qatalyst
  • Tier 1b: Lazard, Moelis, Perella Weinberg Partners
  • Tier 2: Greenhill, Rothschild, Houlihan Lokey, Guggenheim, Macquarie, Harris Williams, Jefferies
  • Tier 3: William Blair, Lincoln International, LionTree, Stifel, Oppenheimer, Peter J. Solomon, Robert Baird, Piper Jaffray

Bulge Bracket Banks Characterized by Sorority Sisters

User @LongIslandBound shared a humorous post:

LongIslandBound:

Top:

  • GS: Catty, rich girls. Lot of coke, hard pledge process. Only mix with Apollo/KKR
  • MS: Smaller sisterhood feeding mostly from HYP. Rivals with GS and always try to outdo them in philanthropy
  • JPM: Stuck up girls who think they're top but really just spread debt comps all day

Mid:

  • BAML: Super diverse, fun sisterhood. Merged with ML girls after they got kicked off campus but everyone still thinks they're just a retail sisterhood.
  • Citi: Strong national organization but kind of weak at USA
  • Barclays: Sceney international girls who used to party hard but got in trouble with their national organization
  • CS: More international girls in trouble with nationals

Bottom:

  • Deutsche: Nice girls but got in big trouble for their off balance sheet derivatives philanthropy. Currently on probation with the SEC board
  • UBS: Considered the sisters who didn't get bids at any other BB houses. More of a wealth management sisterhood now.

Read More About Rankings on WSO

Read more about this topic on WSO.

Learn more about our users thoughts on the quality of the investment banks in the 2018 Wall Street Oasis Industry Report.

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Comments (362)

Sep 16, 2016

edit: forget it

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May 14, 2017

Deleted

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Sep 8, 2016

I'd say for tech Qatalyst is Number 1 w/o a doubt. Look at the size and breadth of deals they've been on across internet, software, semis.

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Sep 9, 2016

Would like to add that the rankings could differ rather drastically from region to region, e.g. U.S. vs Asia / Europe

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Sep 9, 2016

PJT below Guggenheim makes me question your whole list

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Sep 10, 2016

I agree with the BB list, although I would add Soc Gen above BMO. Here is m version of the EB

Note: I am a little biased towards the energy space, although if I was 100% talking about energy I would raise Jefferies and Piper Jaffray to to after HL before Moelis, and drop Qatalyst to last.

EB/MM/Boutique:
1. Lazard
2. Evercore
3. HL
4. Moelis
5. Jefferies
6. Centerview
7. PJT
8. Perella Weinberg
9. Qatalyst
10. Piper Jaffray
11. Guggenheim
12. Macquarie

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Sep 9, 2016

Lol the EB ranking is so bad in general. Another note: Guggenheim, Jefferies, Piper, Macquarie aren't even EBs... Just MM/boutiques for now

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Sep 9, 2016

This is asked every now and then but what about Energy focused IBs or those that are strong in Energy?

I would imagine Credit Suisse and Goldman Sachs have to be high on the list given the OFS deals they have been involved in this and last year. Any thoughts?

Sep 9, 2016
Sep 9, 2016

Energy I would rank as follows This is CURRENT, not Historical, banks which are not strong market leaders can go in and out of vouge in this space very quickly and there is a TON of MD poaching which happens regularly.

EDIT: below list reordered from original content due to information below

  1. Credit Suisse
  2. Citi
  3. Goldman Sachs
  4. Morgan Stanley
  5. BAML
  6. Barclays
  7. JP Morgan
  8. RBC CM
  9. Deutsche Bank
  10. BMO
  11. Soc Gen
  12. UBS
  13. Capital One
  14. Wells Fargo (A&D Only, probably should be taken off this list.)

EB/Specialist:

  1. Evercore
  2. Lazard
  3. TPH
  4. Jefferies
  5. Piper Jaffray
  6. HL
  7. Moelis

the rest do not have a noteworthy energy presence to my knowledge.

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Dec 26, 2016

.

Sep 9, 2016
realjackryan:

Energy I would rank as follows This is CURRENT, not Historical, banks which are not strong market leaders can go in and out of vouge in this space very quickly and there is a TON of MD poaching which happens regularly.

1. Morgan Stanley2. Goldman Sachs3. Credit Suisse4. Citi5. BAML6. Barclays7. JP Morgan8. RBC CM9. Deutsche Bank10. BMO11. Soc Gen12. UBS13. Capital One14. Wells Fargo (A&D Only, probably should be taken off this list.)

EB/Specialist:

1. Evercore2. Lazard3. TPH4. Jefferies5. Piper Jaffray6. HL7. Moelis

the rest do have a noteworthy energy presence to my knowledge.

LOL at MS as number, what a fucking joke. They have like one good MD (Mize). Definitely one of the weakest banks in energy. GS is good but too high. Agree that CS has been killing it this year.

Sep 9, 2016

No Guggenheim? They did Great Plains - Westar, among other things, and I believe the entire former BX / PJT team went there after the spin off

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Sep 9, 2016

the trend will most likely be that US banks will continue to take market share away from Euro banks. Also questionable how the "Elite Boutiques" will do given that we are genuinely post crisis.

Sep 9, 2016

Float like a butterfly, sting like the bee.

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Sep 9, 2016

Was trying to put together a list of PE placements by BB group but I don't know anything about Citi, DB or UBS groups - anyone know where these guys go?

Thanks

Sep 9, 2016

This post makes me think of greekrank

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Best Response
Sep 9, 2016

I made an amended list based on what you guys really want:
Top:
GS: Catty, rich girls. Lot of coke, hard pledge process. Only mix with Apollo/KKR
MS: Smaller sisterhood feeding mostly from HYP. Rivals with GS and always try to outdo them in philanthropy
JPM: Stuck up girls who think they're top but really just spread debt comps all day
Mid:
BAML: Super diverse, fun sisterhood. Merged with ML girls after they got kicked off campus but everyone still thinks they're just a retail sisterhood.
Citi: Strong national organization but kind of weak at USA
Barclays: Sceney international girls who used to party hard but got in trouble with their national organization
CS: More international girls in trouble with nationals
Bottom:
Deutsche: Nice girls but got in big trouble for their off balance sheet derivatives philanthropy. Currently on probation with the SEC board
UBS: Considered the sisters who didn't get bids at any other BB houses. More of a wealth management sisterhood now.

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Sep 9, 2016

This is my favorite. post. ever. dot. period. ever.

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Sep 9, 2016

I literally can't even.

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Sep 10, 2016

You deserve infinite bananas

Sep 10, 2016

Going down in the annals of WSO history. Gratz bud

Sep 10, 2016

Thank you mate, all I ever needed to know is here.

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Sep 10, 2016

As someone who is an energy banker, Lazard is no where near the top. Probably one of the last places I'd want to work if my goal was to have a career in energy. The brand name helps when recruiting outside the state, but people in energy circles know it's not relevant in the space. They may have done a few decent deals recently, but there are a number of banks consistently doing better and paying much way better. At least two banks come to mind here that have solid deal flow and pay well above NYC street.

If I were looking now, I'd preference CS, Jefferies, Evercore, Barclays, and TPH in no particular order based on a combination of deal flow, compensation, and exit opportunities.

This list is VERY different from general investment banking rankings, as Houston has a very different hierarchy. NYC is a lot more group dependent, so I feel it's not really worth ranking. For what I'm interested in, if I ever switched out of energy, I'd preference PJT, Centerview, Goldman, Evercore, MS, but there's are plenty of top notch groups across other banks in the city as well.

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Sep 10, 2016

What about Rothschild?

Sep 10, 2016

What about Greenhill? I heard they were one of the top elite boutiques?

Sep 10, 2016

They've been trending down since Greenhill stepped down in 2007. Do a few large transactions every year, but have been losing MDs left and right. Still a great place in terms of hours / pay / exits, but they definitely don't have the momentum that some other boutiques have.

PJT definitely hasn't changed much since its Blackstone days and I think they still punch above Evercore / Moelis / Lazard in terms of exits. Evercore has increased its analyst class size quite a bit, believe it's above 30 now, and not sure how that has impacted placement. Moelis and Lazard are keeping class sizes in low 20s and placement was great this past cycle. Lazard placement actually varies quite a bit depending on group. Moelis NY was arguably the top placing bank on the street for MF PE this past cycle but that can and does change since they were pretty bad the previous cycle. LA didn't do too well this past cycle and had a few analysts actually lateral to different firms.

In terms of deal experience, it definitely varies quite a bit for the boutiques. Greenhill pretty much focuses on large cap transactions so you might not close anything as an analyst but you'll get great deals on your resume if you do. Centerview and Perella are also like this. Evercore and Lazard have less of a focus on large cap and churn MM deals frequently so you'll have chances to get both deal experience from MM stuff and to get thorough corporate advisory experience. Moelis is kind of an oddball in that they do anything they can get their hands on resulting in many MM deals and sponsor deals. Also unlike other boutiques, they specialize in sell-sides from both corporates and sponsors while others do mainly buy-side stuff. Pros and cons to both the models but think Evercore and Lazard have a good balance.

Compensation wise, Evercore and Moelis are tied for total comp. Lazard is lower by a significant margin - their top bucket bonus for the first years was lower than the bottom bucket bonus for Moelis and Evercore first years.

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Sep 10, 2016

Good info. As you said Moelis NY absolutely destroyed placements this most recent year but we'll have to see what this coming year is like to see if they still have staying power. Will also be interesting to see where PJT places

Sep 10, 2016

Much of this is incorrect. Moelis pays below Evercore - I believe Evercore base salary is $10k higher for first and second years, and bonus was significantly higher this year as well. Also, unless top bucket for Lazard is sub-40k - which I highly doubt - your last comment is also incorrect. How could you possibly know what the bottom bonus given across all Moelis first years was?

I don't mean to sound harsh, I just find that there is too much sharing of incorrect secondhand knowledge on this forum.

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Sep 11, 2016

Thank you! @zezima

May 14, 2017

Deleted

Sep 10, 2016

People never learn..

Stop with the ranking lists and refer to this thread: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/david-and-goli...

Sep 11, 2016

-

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Sep 11, 2016

Wow it's almost like you can rank on many different dimensions (dealflow, exits, long-term prospects, lifestyle, stability, growth) and that's why these threads always have scattershot flow and abounding dissension

Sep 16, 2016
  1. Dye-lan
  2. Dye-lan
  3. Dye-lan
  4. Dye-lan
  5. Dye-lan

Cuz I spit hot fire

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Apr 9, 2018

+1 SB. How you gonna choke a legend??!

Sep 16, 2016

Does anyone know league tables for healthcare investment banks?

Aug 31, 2017

ELITE BOUTIQUE RANKING based on EXIT OPPS
Tier1: Evercore, Moelis (westcoast offices), Lazard, PJT (eh)
Tier 2: PWP, Greenhill, Centerview Partners
Tier3: HL, Jefferies
Tier4: Piper and Baird of the world

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Apr 8, 2018

Barclays chemicals has been crushing it.

"Work ethic, work ethic" - Vince Vaughn
Apr 8, 2018

This is totally hilarious. Kudos.

I'd move CS and BarCap into 1B. Also, these rankings are very dependent on group. For example, in the energy / oil & gas space, banks like Jefferies and RBC RR are very strong for M&A (tier 1), and banks like GS and Lazard are second tier mainly doing capital markets and such.

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Apr 9, 2018

Do people in the real world care about these lists?

Apr 9, 2018

No

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Apr 10, 2018

People in the real world barely know of/know what GS does much less the rankings of EBs lol

Apr 10, 2018

Any girl worth her salt would not even give a UBS or lower ranked the time of day. Choose wisely.

Apr 10, 2018
  1. GS
  2. Lazard
  3. MS
  4. JPM
  5. UBS
  6. MER
  7. LEH
  8. Citi
  9. Credit Suisse
    10.Deutsche Bank
Apr 10, 2018
  1. First Boston
  2. Salomon Brothers
  3. Bear Sterns
  4. Smith Barney
  5. and who gives a f...

Remember, you will always be a salesman, no matter how fancy your title is.
- My ex girlfriend

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Apr 10, 2018

We all know SUN TRUST is the best bank.

Apr 10, 2018

I think Citi is a great place to be starting right now, not in terms of prestige but as far as opportunities are concerned. A lean deal team is preferred to an overweight one (JPMorgan?)

Apr 10, 2018

ignorance is bliss

Apr 10, 2018
slickmac:

I think Citi is a great place to be starting right now, not in terms of prestige but as far as opportunities are concerned. A lean deal team is preferred to an overweight one (JPMorgan?)

Ignoring the tiring nature of these recurring threads for a second, I spoke to some JPM (London) bankers during recruiting in November. I didn't research the veracity of their statements, but they did claim that their LTM revenue was the same as 2000 (or 2001, can't remember) with less than a third of the headcount.

Either way, both NYC and London bankers I spoke to mentioned being stretched hard staffing-wise. Don't know if that's still the case.

Apr 10, 2018

This is retarded. By the way, it's the groups and offices that matter. For example, doesn't do you much good if you're part of Lazard 8-man LA office does it?

Apr 10, 2018

I agree with yawster, totally depends on the group. Most banks have their all star groups and the ones you wouldn't want to touch with a ten foot pole

Apr 10, 2018

Wachovia, #1, all day every day

Apr 10, 2018
FL.Gator:

Wachovia, #1, all day every day

While they do have #1 Customer Satisfaction, WaMu has a higher rate for Savings. Therefore, WaMu is by far the best bank on the street. And their colors. Cmon!

Apr 10, 2018

Really depends on where you are what you're doing. In Europe, DB is considered more prestigious than Lehman for instance. At the end of the day, all of them pay the same amount, they all work you like slaves and they all tell you to get the fuck out after two years.

Apr 10, 2018

you guys are honestly retarded. I wish I was busy so I didn't have to read these stupid rants all day long

Apr 10, 2018

These rankings are ridiculous. Any ranking is. 6 months ago, many would've put Lehman and Citi in the top 5 with GS/MS and JPM/MER. UBS in the top 5 too? They do a lot of deals but do you want to be part of a place that is considered a total sweatshop and may spin off its IBD unit? Additionally, some groups at lower tier banks are top-notch, like CS with Sponsors/LevFin/Tech, while Tech at UBS stinks. Outside of GS/MS, which are strong pretty much across the board, each bank has its strengths and weaknesses.

Go to the place where you feel will fit you the best. Many of the banks have wildly different atmospheres and people. The deal structure for analysts and workload is also different, so quality of life can range depending on your company and your group. If you think picking UBS is better than Lehman just because some silly ranking told you it was, regardless of group or culture, you are not going to last long in banking.

Apr 10, 2018
gomes3pc:

UBS in the top 5 too? They do a lot of deals but do you want to be part of a place that is considered a total sweatshop and may spin off its IBD unit? Additionally, some groups at lower tier banks are top-notch, like CS with Sponsors/LevFin/Tech, while Tech at UBS stinks.

Do go on about UBS... Are they really known as a sweatshop? You say that their Tech group stinks... Expand upon that for me please.

Apr 10, 2018

wow, you guys take this way too seriously. No one is basing their decision of employment off of this, its just for fun. Yes, I know certain groups or locations are better within each bank, but I think you are all smart enough to judge the whole. Think of this as the NFL, sure there are better defensive units on some teams but the team as a whole can still be average (Ravens for example). Quit over thinking such an easy question.

Apr 10, 2018
  1. SunTrust
  2. Morgan Keegan
  3. BB&T
Apr 10, 2018

Its just funny, that the children giving their lists are still in college and have no idea what they are talking about. And you guys keep making fun of BB&T or Morgan Keegan, I think you idiots would be lucky to end up there... or anywhere really. You people are the people who give investment bankers the "tool" persona that holds so true across wall street. You are also the same people who will be lonely, pathetic, lifelong principals hating their life.

Apr 10, 2018
PublicEquity1:

Its just funny, that the children giving their lists are still in college and have no idea what they are talking about. And you guys keep making fun of BB&T or Morgan Keegan, I think you idiots would be lucky to end up there... or anywhere really. You people are the people who give investment bankers the "tool" persona that holds so true across wall street. You are also the same people who will be lonely, pathetic, lifelong principals hating their life.

Agreed that most of these lists are being populated by kids in college. That said, I wouldn't consider anyone lucky (even idiots) to end up at BB&T or Morgan Keegan...

Feb 27, 2019
PublicEquity1:

Its just funny, that the children giving their lists are still in college and have no idea what they are talking about. And you guys keep making fun of BB&T or Morgan Keegan, I think you idiots would be lucky to end up there... or anywhere really. You people are the people who give investment bankers the "tool" persona that holds so true across wall street. You are also the same people who will be lonely, pathetic, lifelong principals hating their life.

Agreed. But also why is anyone talking about Morgan Keegan 6 years after they were acquired?

Apr 10, 2018

Gomes3pc,

Could you elaborate a bit on how the atmosphere differs at each bank? I know that GS is very formal and DB is very relaxed (opposite ends of the spectrum) but I'd be really interested in any additional information that you have. Would do all the prospective monkeys a hell of a lot more good than these retarded rankings.

Thanks!

Apr 10, 2018

Hmmm, how do you know that GS is "very formal" and DB is "very relaxed"???

Have you actually worked for an extended period of time at either institution?

Did you spend time in at least 10 different teams and 5 different divisions in each firm?

Did you work for each firm on 5 different continents?

Because if you don't fulfil these rather simple & easy criteria, what qualifies you to say that you actually "know" anything about the atmosphere? Such a generic statement, you crack me up man!

There are too many people talking out of their asses on this site sometimes ........ but at least some of it's humorous.

:)

Apr 10, 2018
  1. GS
  2. MS
  3. JPM
  4. Lazard
  5. MER
  6. LEH
  7. Citi
  8. UBS
  9. DB
Apr 10, 2018

publicequity,

no offense to you, but I would draw more of a "tool" image of someone who was uptight like that. But your right, rankings are for college kids. I'm sure every coach who ranks football teams in the college coaches poll is a tool also.

Apr 10, 2018

Speaking of rankings, just brush up on the Vault list if you need to. The top 10 will always be fairly consistent and carry similar prestige.

Morgan Keegan is #45 on Vault, right behind Gleacher at #44 which is a great company.

Apr 10, 2018

you have got to be kidding me? You take yourself too seriously little boy. Also, do you see middle school kids who have no idea what they are talking about giving their football rankings?

Apr 10, 2018

Stop arguing. At the end of the day you're all nerds so just hug and make up.

Apr 10, 2018

The Official Ranking of Super-Baller Investment Banks and Other Baller Things:

  1. ML
  2. JPM
  3. Barclay's
  4. GS
  5. UBS
  6. Wachovia
  7. DB
  8. Gleacher
  9. MS
  10. CS

Harvard > Princeton > Yale

NYC > Chicago

BluRay > HD-DVD

Apr 10, 2018

This is just for fun. No need to take it more seriously than it deserves.

  1. GS
  2. MS
  3. JPM
  4. UBS
  5. Citi
  6. Mer
  7. Leh
  8. Lazard
  9. CS
  10. DB
Apr 10, 2018

I'll join in in the spirit of fun.

  1. GS
  2. Lazard
  3. MS
  4. Lehman
  5. JPM
  6. Citi
  7. Merrill
  8. UBS
  9. DB
  10. CS
Apr 10, 2018

Wow no love for CS. They were 5th in the US for M&A and 6th worldwide. 2nd in IPOs last year worldwide. Not much of a player in debt but for M&A and equities I'd say they end up a lot better than 9th or 10th.

Apr 10, 2018

word

CS deserves some more love

Apr 10, 2018

Joefish,

I agree with what you're saying, one of my mentors specifically told me that those kind of generalizations don't really hold true as it is more group and senior banker specific (as you are saying as well). Guess I just momentarily fell into the ibankingoasis trap, thanks for setting me straight.

Apr 10, 2018

Yeah I thought CS would be rated a lot higher, they have some strong groups and have managed to stay almost completely out of the news (a pretty good thing these days). Since debt is dead they should be making some big moves.

Apr 10, 2018

M&A rankings (not serious!)

  1. GS
  2. MS/DB
  3. Lazard
  4. CS
  5. JPM/Citi
  6. UBS
  7. DLJ :)
  8. Evercore
  9. Perella Weinberg
  10. Rothschild
    .
    .
    .
  11. Merrill
    .
    .
    .
  12. Lehman Bros. (soon to be deceased)
Apr 10, 2018

Look up "Wall Street League Tables" and click the Business Insider Link

http://www.businessinsider.com/wall-street-league-tables-goldman-sachs-slips-2017-9

Wicked Smaht

Apr 10, 2018

Houlihan
HSBC
BNP Paribas
RBC
Piper

I have not heard of the other two.

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Oct 13, 2018

Lol dude this is so wrong hsbc and bnp are mediocre mm banks in the us... what are you talking about...

Apr 10, 2018

Have not heard of Goldsmith Agio or Lazard? That's unusual.

Apr 10, 2018

I didn't know Lazard acquired goldsmith agio.

Apr 10, 2018

lazard
houlihan
sagent
bnp
hsbc
rbc
piper

Oct 13, 2018

same applies here... bnp and hsbc are just mediocre mm banks in the us... no prestige and ex opps

Apr 10, 2018

Top Dogs

Houlihan
Lazard
HSBC

The rest I dont know enough about to rank accurately. Piper is one piece of [email protected] company though, lately. No offense to the people who work there...

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Apr 10, 2018
schumacher:

Piper is one piece of [email protected] company though, lately. No offense to the people who work there...

Weren't you about to buy their stock a few weeks ago?

Houlihan Lokey has the best career video. I could watch it all day long.

Oct 13, 2018

HSBC is not a top mm player lol

Apr 10, 2018

Haha yes I was, then I looked deeper into the company and found alot of troubling aspects. And they absolutely tanked during Q3, putting the blame on the sub prime losses, just to hide how weak their company truely is. Thank God I didnt take a position with that company.

To give them some credit, I think the stock is way under priced, but until they can get their name out and get some consistent volume they will continue to tank. Some good news in the market (esp financial sector, obviously) will also help the stock price tremendously but who knows when thats going to happen.

And no offense, really, but if you could watch that houlihan career video all day (it's well done, but quite sickening IMO) then you reeeally need a girl/boy friend. :P

Apr 10, 2018
schumacher:

And no offense, really, but if you could watch that houlihan career video all day (it's well done, but quite sickening IMO) then you reeeally need a girl/boy friend. :P

I don't know what it is, I just get a kick out of it. You've got the rock and roll music playing along, and Jeff W.'s voice is going all over the place. "But we'll be paying you." Great line, cracks me up.

Apr 10, 2018

how does cowen fall into these rankings?

Apr 10, 2018

hlhz is easily the best

Apr 10, 2018

haha i just watched the hlhz video but was disappointed..

Apr 10, 2018

Are these responses serious or does nobody here actually know what they are talking about?

On what criteria are you ranking these firms? Essentially, each firm is different and has a distinct focus.

For boutique "pure" advisory : Greenhill and Gleacher are far and away the best "boutiques." Perella Weinberg follows close behind. Than comes sagent advisors (top heavy firm with a median age of probably 60, Evercore Partners is a great firm but has an advisory, middle market, and technology focus.

For middle market : goldsmith lazard is clearly the best followed by houlihan (which is the butt of many jokes on Wall Street as a shit firm). Piper Jaffay is decent in middle market equities, but not much else.

The IB departments of rbc, hsbc, and BNP are divisions of international banks so while they are inferior to their BB counterparts, they do have regional clout.

Not sure exactly where Cowen and T. H. Lee Partners falls. Anyone else know? Preferably not some undergrad who thinks because he reads the WSJ he is hot shit.

Apr 10, 2018

My take:

Houlihan (great restructuring group, ok-ish for the rest)
Piper jaffray
Goldsmith lazard (recently acquired by Lazard, doesn't mean that it will have the same exit opps as Lazard proper)
hsbc
bnp paribas
RBC

What's Sagent?????

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Apr 10, 2018

Sagent is a new middle market boutique formed by the heads of the M&A group at DLJ.

Evercore does not have a technology focus, although they did do some big telecom deals. They also don't have a middle market group or focus anywhere.

Apr 10, 2018

it helps those who aren't on Wall Street...i.e. 90% of those investment banks on that list, a typical person never heard about.

Apr 10, 2018

What are you talking about? Why would a typical person not on wall street give a shit about the vault rankings?

Apr 10, 2018

Man, Vault really knows how to fuck it up. They think it's easier to get a job at Lazard than at Lehman, Merrill, etc.? Give me a break.

Apr 10, 2018

The Vault rankings are based on surveys - it has nothing to do with how easy it is to get a job at a given bank.

Apr 10, 2018
orangedays:

The Vault rankings are based on surveys - it has nothing to do with how easy it is to get a job at a given bank.

I knew some fucking Poindexter would say something like this. Selectivity is a huge factor in prestige, as are exit opps. I have no idea how those surveys were carried out, but there's OBVIOUSLY something fishy about it.

Apr 10, 2018

I like how Evercore is killing it right now but barely cracks the top 30...

Apr 10, 2018

all rankings are shit

Apr 10, 2018

I would place Lehman at least behind JPM and ML.

www.sharpeinvesting.com

Apr 10, 2018

Just wondering. What are the general thoughts on the accuracy of these rankings?

Apr 10, 2018

I agree with the "prestige" through the first ten (except JPM, which should be higher). After that it's all over the place, and I'd add that senior bankers likely have different views than junior bankers (for various reasons).

Apr 10, 2018

commercial banks do not belong in the top 10

Apr 10, 2018

i have to say i love the fact that UBS, lehman and Citi are still in the top 11 (had to move up to 11 to include UBS), even though Lehman is as of now worth nothing, citi is more than screwed, and ubs is looking to sell off their ibanking division. Also how the hell is Chase commercial bank prestigious...isn't that like working as a teller?

    • 1
Apr 10, 2018
worldtraveler123:

i have to say i love the fact that UBS, lehman and Citi are still in the top 11 (had to move up to 11 to include UBS), even though Lehman is as of now worth nothing, citi is more than screwed, and ubs is looking to sell off their ibanking division. Also how the hell is Chase commercial bank prestigious...isn't that like working as a teller?

jw, why is everyone always so down on Citi, judging by the amount and size of the deals they have done it seems to be they should be a top bank.

Apr 10, 2018

...there aren't any pure commercial banks in the top ten. And commercial banking isn't the same as retail banking.

Apr 10, 2018

oh ya and also when speaking with senior bankers at most firms prestige rankings normally do not matter, its more of the prestige of an indviual department within a firm versus an overall firm (although Goldman obviously is known as highly prestigious due to the number of amazing teams they have), i.e. some of the richest bankers within the investment banking community work at second tier banks (i.e. the highest paid banker in europe is a private equity tax specialist at Barcap)

Apr 10, 2018

Lehman shouldn't be in the top 10 in my opinion

Apr 10, 2018

boutiques arent really ranked fairly in my opinion. is there anyone who would honestly take Chase Commerical bank, banc of america or Wachovia over Perella Weinberg or Evercore?

Apr 10, 2018

CS seems pretty low there. I know they're a bit smaller than some of the guys ahead of them, but they came out pretty darn squeaky from the credit crisis and are picking up some top MDs from Lehman and Merrill as they jump ship.

Apr 10, 2018

This list is total bullshit. Also, who gives a shit about balance sheet strength? A good team is a good team, regardless of the losses on their trading desk.

Apr 10, 2018

Just to make some points about some peoples comments on here......

None of the banks listed are listed because of commercial banking except where noted (that being citibank commercial banking). As a fellow poster noted commercial banking is not retail.... you are not a teller... you are actually providing banking services for corporations. I am not completely well versed on this area but I would look into it before making comments about it.

Again as a previous poster pointed out group prestige is much more important than "brand" prestige. Lehman has had one of the top natural resources groups on the street. Other banks have a niche in some particular industry or product primarily due to the relationships that have been created by the MDs with certain corporate clients.

Lastly.. stop judging banks solely by the subprime market situations. That would be like someone judging you for the actions someone at your college did. Even worse, its specific groups of individuals at these banks that have caused problems and typically this does not involve the investment banking (M&A advisory) businesses at all. Lehman as a whole is a very good and prestigious bank.... they might be going through a rough time due to the debt markets and investments in certain real estate... Citi has done extremely well building their investment banking division and continues to do well despite some misteps by individuals at their bank causing problems

Apr 10, 2018

FYI - these rankings mean next to nothing...they are put out to up Vault's readership. Use these rankings only to get a very rough idea of which firms are well-regarded in the industry, nothing else.

Apr 10, 2018

These are prestige rankings; not quality rankings. As a parallel, any person could argue that MIT is just as good a school as is Harvard (in terms of education provided), but the prestige of Harvard is definitely greater. Just as Merrill might be just a good a bank as is Goldman (in terms of quality of product), but the prestige of Goldman is definitely higher.

I've found that people who are adamantly against rankings usually harbor some type of insecurity complex regarding their current bank (i.e., the Citi banker above me whose bank ranking dropped 5 spots this year...)

I've worked at [what some college kids would naively call] "tier 1" banks as well as a bank ranked between 3-10. The work and everything else one would experience at the junior level is about the same, but the attitude and swagger exhibited definitely are not [Goldman kids are the absolute most arrogant people you will ever meet]. People recognize the prestige differences b/w banks, and anyone who denies this is just a wee bit insecure.

I've noticed that, even in banking (not just in college) there seems to be an industry-wide insecurity complex towards GS (at least at the junior level).

I should note, however, that people above arguing that "Lehman should be ranked 5 instead of 4" or "Merrill should be at 4 instead of 6" are probably the most retarded people in the world and likely have never before stepped foot in a bank.

Apr 10, 2018

Disagree. Think someone from HSBC has more swagger than someone from Evercore?

I'm all about the prestige rankings when they reflect the way it is (I think USNews rankings are surprisingly good at this for example). But this one is almost as worthless as the top undergrad b-school rankings.

Apr 10, 2018

I'm not impressed with Evercore, and I doubt the general public is either. It's like comparing Carleton, which people "in the know" would argue is a better school than schools such as Notre Dame or Emory, but the prestige of ND/Emory in terms of the general public is still greater than that of Carleton.

Apr 10, 2018

In my experience people at Goldman have been less arrogant then Lehman

Apr 10, 2018

Pointless debate, but I think Citi and Deutsche guys are way high on the arrogance scale.

Apr 10, 2018

I've spoken with people at all different banks. I thought that the Citi and Deutsche guys were the most down to earth. Keep in mind, culture usually varies by group so try not to compare someone in DB M&A to someone in MS Power. Not apples to apples.

Apr 10, 2018

This Thread is meaningless, use the damn search function.

http://modernyuppie.blogspot.com/ The musings and antics of a Meathead college wrestler turned asset backed securities trader.

Apr 10, 2018

Atleast is "at least"
Competitions is "competitors"
Its is "it's"
!!! is "!"

That said,
GS - reputation, culture
MS - understated (some read as WASPY) version of GS
JPM - balance sheet, well run
C - balance sheet, international
CS / DB - European influence, international

Apr 10, 2018
ibes_answer:

Atleast is "at least"
Competitions is "competitors"
Its is "it's"
!!! is "!"

That said,
GS - reputation, culture
MS - understated (some read as WASPY) version of GS
JPM - balance sheet, well run
C - balance sheet, international
CS / DB - European influence, international

Thanks a lot ibes! Much appreciated. Could you please tell me the source from where you got your information for yourself? I'm not certainly doubting it, but going forward, I just want to which places to look at. Thanks!

Apr 10, 2018
ibes_answer:

Atleast is "at least"
Competitions is "competitors"
Its is "it's"
!!! is "!"

That said,
GS - reputation, culture
MS - understated (some read as WASPY) version of GS
JPM - balance sheet, well run
C - balance sheet, international
CS / DB - European influence, international

Thanks a lot ibes! Much appreciated. Could you please tell me the source from where you got this? I'm not certainly doubting it, but going forward, I just want to know which places to look at by myself. Thanks!

Apr 10, 2018

no one cares about coverletters. just make a template and throw in the bank's name. no one cares. really.

Apr 10, 2018

thanx for your suggestion

Apr 10, 2018

CL are less important for BB than for Boutiques. Focus on a stellar resume and you're good to go.

Apr 10, 2018

I'm currently looking into Barcap and I was wondering what you guys think sets their IBD division apart from its competitors? I was thinking of the fact that they focus on Emerging Markets but I'm not sure.

Apr 10, 2018
walkio:

I'm currently looking into Barcap and I was wondering what you guys think sets their IBD division apart from its competitors? I was thinking of the fact that they focus on Emerging Markets but I'm not sure.

write your own application essay

Apr 10, 2018

UBS - teamwork
Goldman Sachs - diversity
Morgan Stanley - mentoring
Citi - truly global bank
Credit Suisse - commitment to client service
Barcap - integrity
Bank of America - complete suite of client offerings

Apr 10, 2018
ideating:

UBS - teamwork
Goldman Sachs - diversity
Morgan Stanley - mentoring
Citi - truly global bank
Credit Suisse - commitment to client service
Barcap - integrity
Bank of America - complete suite of client offerings

That's hilarious dude.

Apr 10, 2018

OK kiddies, you really need just one cover letter. The cover letter isn't supposed to tell the bank why you'd work for them (because they don't give a shit why, they'll ask you in the interview because it's an easy question to screw up, don't take the opportunity to screw up in the cover letter), it's supposed to tell them why you'd be a good analyst. Sure, it's nice to toss in a nice line to blow the bank, but that line can be the same for any of the bulge brackets.

Really, if you have a strong resume, you're better off going with a short cover letter -- making it too long gives you too much opportunity to write something ridiculous and get you dinged. I'd start off by introducing yourself, your application to the position, and briefly summarizing your candidacy. Second paragraph, give a very brief walkthrough of your experiences and how they relate to banking/prep you to be a rockstar analyst. Generally start with the most relevant experience and work your way down. I'd say hit on 3-4 points, and relate them to what makes a good analyst (again, a good analyst is a good analyst at every BB -- hard working, works well under pressure, able to balance a full workload and manage time, analytically brilliant, etc. -- just read a job description). Finish up by thanking the reader for his/her time and the opportunity, please contact me at xxx-xxx-xxxx or [email protected] if there are any comments or questions. Best regards, name.

That's easy.

Apr 10, 2018

Focus the CL on yourself, not on the bank. Research the bank after you get an interview and spin whatever positives you find in the news when you get asked the 'why THIS BANK' question.

Apr 10, 2018

You probably will only need one cover letter because the things don't get read, but these aren't bad questions to ask as they can and likely will come up in interviews. Ones I know pretty well:

GS: Excellence / Teamwork
JPM: Track record / Balance sheet
BAML: BofA Balance sheet + Merrill Track record of success
UBS: Global

Apr 10, 2018

You're absolutely right, compared to KKR and Blackstone, GS is not overrated. :D

Apr 10, 2018

fuck you duke of duke. nice try with the name change. your a trolllllllllll

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.

Apr 10, 2018
Will Hunting:

fuck you duke of duke. nice try with the name change. your a trolllllllllll

Nice try with YOUR name change, Matt Damon. Fuck you, the pinnacle of the last 3 years your life was a TV show.

Apr 10, 2018

dude to be honest there are about 30-40 places I would be indifferent about working at and could list them at will

and now someone needs to close this topic

Apr 10, 2018

"I like to butt f*ck fine ladies. Will I chokehold a bitch? Well, maybe."

  • Kenny Powers
Apr 10, 2018
ThaVanBurenBoyz:

"I like to butt f*ck fine ladies. Will I chokehold a bitch? Well, maybe."

  • Kenny Powers

Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth.

-Kenny Powers

fdba Emory Blaine and BBA or otherwise trying to find the perfect pseudonym.

Apr 10, 2018
ekudfoekud:

I have a needledick.

lmao

Apr 10, 2018
turtles:
ekudfoekud:

I have a monster sized cock.

can i put the tip in my mouth and swish my tongue around?

Wtf you're a fucking disgusting homo, and you prob can't even fit that shit in your mouth in the first place.

Apr 10, 2018

How, specifically, is Piper Jaffray overrated?

Apr 10, 2018
turtles:

How, specifically, is Piper Jaffray overrated?

This is why:

LLcoolJ:

trolling aside i also think Piper Jaffray is a good MM

When in actuality the whole firm is a complete jooooke (and a funny one at that).

Apr 10, 2018

trolling aside i also think Piper Jaffray is a good MM

Apr 10, 2018

The trolls have eaten.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

Apr 10, 2018

all the troll stuff on PJ has to stop

Apr 10, 2018

BarCap

Apr 10, 2018

BARCAP

FARTMAN

Apr 10, 2018

these type of threads need to be deleted sooner

Apr 10, 2018

seriously, get a job before you start blasting well-established firms like Piper... you wouldn't even get an offer at a strong MM bank like Piper Jaffray

Apr 10, 2018

agreed, the trolling has to stop on this firm

Apr 10, 2018
  1. GS
  2. JPM
  3. BAC/Mer
  4. Citi

duh

Apr 10, 2018

What is your basis for ranking these banks in this order? The past? The future? Just a few months ago, many ranked Lehman Bro #2.

Apr 10, 2018

haha, I love the "duh". I hope some insecure Morgan Stanley kids jump all over you.

Apr 10, 2018

I like all the combined names. That's the last time I refer ti Citi as anything but Citigan Stanley, even if the merger doesn't happen.

Apr 10, 2018

Who ranked Lehman #2? retards, that's who [kingbling, where are you?!]. that's why those guys no longer have a job!

Apr 10, 2018
b2:

Who ranked Lehman #2? retards, that's who [kingbling, where are you?!]. that's why those guys no longer have a job!

Didn't you once say that Merrill would be the top #1/#2 bank on the street? Look how that turned out...

Apr 10, 2018

My rank is based on my opinion of each banks ability to survive plus my personal prestige premium.

As it stands, MS cannot survive without deposits (assuming that nobody in their right mind will make an equity investment). What's so prestigious about barely surviving? - I believe that MS will either be taken over by Citi or go under. So, best case scenario: MS gets Citi's prestige rating and moves to the bottom of my list.

On the other hand, I believe GS will continue to receive capital from investors or will eventually purchase a commercial bank. Essentially, it will survive on its own. - And given its already prestigious image, I believe it will benefit by picking up talent from Bear/Lehman/Merrill/MS layoffs.

JPM is by far the biggest beneficiary IMO (a close 2nd). It has picked up intellectual property/deposits/employees at pennies on the dollar. It is now a very stable and safe place to be employed. Plus, their IB/Trading operations will increase in value because of these acquisitions. - BTW JPM already has one of the best S&T programs on the street.

And I ranked BAC above Citi simply because I believe BAC's financial situation is better than Citi's. One may argue that MS > MER - But I believe this is outweighed by Citi's earlier problems.

So,

1 - GS - 9+10 = 19

2 - JPM - 10+8.5 = 18.5

3 - BAC - 9+7 = 16

4 - Citi - 7+8.5 = 15.5

The first digit being ability to survive... the second digit being my personal prestige premium.

Apr 10, 2018

equal last.

The question is like "rank these turds in the order of most deliciousness"

Apr 10, 2018

b2 you are retarded, and chill the fuck out. just because i have more important things to do then argue with you about prestige rankings, doesnt mean ive disappeared.

no one on this forum actually believes you work in the industry

you make about 100 posts on day on WSO and all of them are useless

regardless of which,
1. you were indeed clamoring weeks and months prior that MER would be the top 1-3 bank. they will no longer exist very soon.
2. second, i dont work at lehman or Barclays. and just so you know, every lehman intern in IBD that got offers received an offer to work at barclays... no one is out of a job there
3. you can rank barclays however you want. no one cares what you think. personally, ive never ranked lehman in the top of your useless list anyways

all you've proven is how much of a retarded douche you are

Apr 10, 2018

hahahahahahhahahahhahahha, pwnD! gg,nore!

Apr 10, 2018
Apr 10, 2018