3/23/15

I'm looking to get a better and more updated sense of the EB banks...looking for more info on pros/cons of each one, general trends, best groups, and recent PE/HF placements.

Interested in Evercore, Lazard, Centerview, Greenhill, Moelis

*excluding Blackstone because i dont think anyone really knows what will happen post-PJT

Comments (99)

3/23/15

Evercore --> TPG recent placement
all I know

The way Ah see it, is that it took a revolution f a bihllion people for your darn short to work out!

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3/23/15

Does anyone know what PE/HF placement was like at Lazard in the last couple of years? Seems like they've dropped off a bit from what I can see from funds' associate pages.

3/23/15

I know the TMT group placed pretty well. A friend from Lazard is at TPG special sits.

3/23/15

Search feature has this covered well.

3/23/15

Actually not really...there are no posts within the past 2 years that talk about Lazard and how they're doing. So it'd be great if I could get more recent info

3/23/15

From looking around at the fund pages and linkedin it seems that EVR, GHL, and Moelis continue doing their thing in sending kids to top funds (I've seen Carlyle, KKR, Apollo, MDP, Golden Gate, Warburg, H&F, etc.).

I think even Centerview is putting (or allowing) kids into a couple MFs.

I just don't see that many Lazard analysts especially considering that the firm probably has as more than twice as many analysts as any of the other EBs. Am I just talking out of my ass here? In undergrad I remember people were saying that Lazard placed as well as GS and MS. Is it because the firm's hardcore sweatshop culture is turning away people with other options?

3/25/15

Lazard analyst class in NYC is ~18 analysts... that is not many at all.. Moelis hired ~25 this year and Evercore ~30
The real overhype is Guggenheim, which hired 30+

3/24/15

Centerview, Moelis, Evercore, Guggenheim, Lazard, Greenhill, and Perella would be the Elite Boutiques if I were to list them. I would never rank them, just categorize them differently

Bankety Bank Banks (Places you go to bank and die): Centerview and Perella

PE Stepping Stones: Evercore and Moelis

OddBalls: Lazard, Greenhill, and Gugg

Lazard is a long-time powerhouse and is still on huge deals, but on a % basis its analyst classes don't place like EVR or MoCo, still a quality bank though

Greenhill... Out of left field. Still on the league tables and doing well despite losing a shit ton of people, not sure what is going on there or how that will affect how they recruit/place

Gugg.. Up and comer. TBD on if it will become a Centerview or a Moelis in terms of recruiting bankers and trying to keep people in the firm or encouraging recruiting and turn out almost full analyst classes to the buyside year-in-year-out.

3/24/15

http://fn.dealogic.com/fn/MARank.htm

League tables are interesting right now. Lazard is doing its usual thing of being the top EB because they aren't a boutique and have tons more staff and relationship guys than the average boutique.

Centerview is doing it's thing being on megadeals and cleaning up. Blair Effron has some sort of all-star team going on over at CV.

Greenhill looks revived essp. in the US. Dunno if they've been losing a "ton" of people but there has been some hemorrhaging for sure. I think these things are cyclical though or they're just losing people they don't want to keep.

MoCo makes an appearance around where GHL is, both US and globally. They seem to do a lot of smaller, sponsors related deals as opposed to Evercore/GHL/LAZ/CV which seems more focused on strategic deals.

Rothschild is doing very well in Europe but not so much in the US.

BX makes a rare appearance. One quick note is Taubman's fire all in telecoms? Cause that's all I see PJT doing.

Evercore is missing. Probably will make an appearance by year's end though. Just haven't announced any huge mandates yet. They also lost their consumers team so that must hurt.

PWP is missing. Probably will also make an appearance by year's end. Not M&A related but losing your restructuring heads to defection is not helping their rep.

Guggs had that huge healthcare deal earlier in the year. Def strong in that space, we'll see how they progress.

3/24/15

Also if I was choosing which shops to join as analyst I'm thinking about this (not going to include BX/PJT but it probably is included in all these catagories except dealflow):

Culture Shops (hours, respect that seniors have for you/your time, facetime, etc.):
Evercore, Greenhill, Centerview, PWP
I frankly think it's all pretty similar at these places. Evercore and GHL have reps about having the "best" culture but I can't imagine CV and PWP are that different.
MoCo: Sweatshop, long hours are all true. But I heard Ken Moelis actually takes like an interest in the analysts so that's pretty cool.
LAZ: lol

Placement to buyside(I know people at all of these shops except CV, PWP, and Laz):
Evercore, MoCo: Places as well as they always have on an absolute basis but the % has dropped off as they ballooned they analyst classes a bit in the last few years. Still great MF placement (I'm guessing MoCo might have an edge though because they amount of work they do with sponsors). Have heard of KKR, TPG, Apollo, Carlyle, BX, etc.
GHL: Analyst class size hasn't changed much. Still places into MF and top MM PE (Apollo, Carlyle, MDP, H&F, Golden Gate, Providence, TPG, GS PIA, etc.). I think I saw that Vettery report that says GHL put 93% of their analysts into the buyside last year.
CV/PWP: Rep is that they aren't going to support buyside stuff but it's still possible. CV placed into Carlyle and KKR I think.
Lazard: No fricken clue.

Dealflow:
Pretty much all these places are decent.The only is that I don't think MoCo does a lot of megadeals compared to rest if you're into that

Honestly, I can't think of any other major criteria that I would use to evaluate banks as an analyst. No idea about Gug for any of these.

Best Response
3/24/15

This is definitely helpful to know!

I think from a target campus perspective, this is the general order of which banks are more desirable for students going through the recruiting process. Some of my comments may be wrong but this is what I've noticed firsthand. Take this with a grain of salt as most college kids have no real experience with any of these banks (myself included)

First and foremost, the absolute top kids at targets go straight into megafund PE or top HF...usually your typical 3.9+ with strong work experience. The next tier of kids go to banking/MBB and this is the general preferences:

1. Blackstone - for obvious reasons
2. Evercore - I've seen a lot of the top kids who end up here...firm also had a ridiculous offer acceptance rate (think 15/16 of offered interns are returning), they're definitely doing something right
3. Lazard/Centerview - CV largely for the compensation, LAZ for its reputation on the street...the kids that go to these two are usually top-talent kids
[BIG gap]
4. Perella - very small presence on campus...most people ("I don't know if I want to do banking") don't know about them and the top kids usually end up going elsewhere. similar to Centerview without the compensation incentive
5. Greenhill/Moelis - These two are definitely lower on the list. Haven't really seen too many kids going to Greenhill now that I think about it, but kids think highly of the culture there. Moelis definitely takes more for summer interns, but return rate isn't great
6. Guggenheim - no comments

4 and 5 could even be grouped together, but PWP takes so few kids that it's hard to tell

3/24/15

I'm surprised that GHL and MoCo are so low and that there's a "big gap". Especially when they place into the buyside as well as Evercore and Lazard. I think BX/EVR/GHL were in top demand beause of their culture and buyside placement. MoCo/Laz are usually lumped together as having great buyside placement but shitty lifestyles.

CV/PWP were wildcards because of their non-buyside policy (have heard that's changing a tiny bit at both shops).

I think PWP and GHL had the least presence on campus. They're small firms with tiny analyst classes compared to the rest and only took like 1 from my target school.

3/25/15

Actually that might be it for GHL..didn't know how small it was tbh. They really don't have much campus presence...don't even remember whether they did a campus presentation. I've only heard of 1 person going there. That's probably why I don't really hear about it much, so I could be wrong putting them so low.

Same with PWP. I've only heard of 1 or 2 kids going there, but they were definitely sharp kids. Kind of have to buy into the firm culture to go there w/ limited exits...Most students here are fixated on going to PE or HF (or at least definitely not career banker), so it turns a lot of people off.

Generally, everyone here definitely thinks of Moelis as a little lower down (despite the PE placements), since they don't do too many high profile deals. Also we don't really get targeted for LA office, most go to NY office. A lot of kids end up re-recruiting coming from Moelis (maybe has something to do with culture there).

3/24/15

Having gone through the whole PE rigamarole (from what people would consider an elite boutique). I have seen that Moelis and Blackstone do best. Evercore/Greenhill/Lazard are next. All other boutiques are usually not considered elite and tend to have a tougher time getting looks. That being said, Centerview makes bank (and bankers).

3/25/15

The amount of complete shit in this thread is shocking. As someone that just went through PE recruitment and accepted a PE job, I'll add a word. I'm at GS/MS/JPM so this is all from talking with peers during recruitment - I don't have first hand experience at an EB.

BX obviously does very well.

Evercore obviously does very well.

Moelis LA smashes it. Moelis NY less so, but they still do well and have a couple MF placements each year (usually a girl or a rock star analyst that MDs call their friends for).

GHL does extremely well. Especially at the top prestigious MM funds. Less MF placement, but it certainly exists and due to their small analyst class sizes, you're actually probably better off here on a percentage basis.

Lazard I will agree is tricky. Super prestigious bank that attracts a lot of top tier talent. They have one off placements that are really good, but it's not half the feeder the Moelis LA or Evercore are for some reason. They all still can land interviews with ease though and that's what matters.

PWP is not great for buyside recruitment. I've said in previous threads that a couple of my buddies really struggled through the recruitment there and they're actually now taking a third year to improve their chances.

I do not know enough about CV to post with certainty, so I won't post anything about it. Isn't that a novel concept, refraining from speaking when you don't know what you're talking about. Huh.

3/25/15

Agree, this is typically what I saw as well.

3/25/15

Can you elaborate on which posts are shit in this thread?

3/25/15

CVP doesn't have the extensive history of other EBs so it's hard to observe trends. However, lots of folks stick within CVP and seem to want to go for their analyst -> associate track. This makes it a little more difficult to distinguish exactly what the placement is like because a lot of their competent folks don't actively hunt for the MF / HF roles .People are pushed towards a 3 year analyst program and the culture there is very much focused on staying for the long-term; seniors will traditionally frown up analysts who imply that they want to leave. That being said, they've still placed people at KKR, H&F and other MFs. Another thing about the 3 year program is that not everyone recruits for PE in their first year and some opt to wait for the second year. Also, people at CVP seem very, very sharp - lots of smart people in that firm.

Moelis LA =/= Moelis NY for sure

4/16/15

n/a

3/25/15

LA is just a different animal since the "street" in LA is so small. Its really just Moelis and HL RX. Maybe a solid BB coverage group is out there but thats basically it. So there is less competition which means MoCo kids there do better in recruiting. IMO there is no real competition for them outside san fran and NY bankers looking to jump coasts. I think I saw CV opened an LA office?

3/25/15

LAZ analyst class each year has ~46 members (let's be honest they aren't bankers, they are trying out to be bankers). I don't where all this misinformation comes from.

As for Los Angeles qn above the following teams are in Los Angeles: Moelis, MS, Laz (share a building), Greenhill (small), CS, Citi, BaML, GS, JPM, CV, HLHZ. All of them recruit fine.

3/25/15

Kobayashi:

LAZ analyst class each year has ~46 members (let's be honest they aren't bankers, they are trying out to be bankers). I don't where all this misinformation comes from.

As for Los Angeles qn above the following teams are in Los Angeles: Moelis, MS, Laz (share a building), Greenhill (small), CS, Citi, BaML, GS, JPM, CV, HLHZ. All of them recruit fine.

Googling and seeing they "have offices" does not put them on parity with Moelis LA or Houlihan LA. Please direct me to the placements out of Laz, CV, and Greenhill LA. The others are still BBs so yes you can recruit out of them, but are they going to top Moelis? No. LA is a satellite market for everyone you listed OUTSIDE Moelis and Houlihan

3/27/15

I work in one of the above offices (not Moelis or Houlihan and not BB). We have 18 bankers consisting of 3 MDs, 2 Directors, 3 VPs, 3 Associates, and 5 Analysts. We cover gaming and aerospace which makes sitting in Los Angeles very advantageous logistically (LV and Wichita are frequent for site visits). We pitch against Moelis and HLHZ quite often and have pretty high success rates in the sectors we cover, including long-term engagements that also allow for good buyside experience. Not trying to make comparisons but I think your perspective is a little off-base. Recent placement and offers from Ares, Apollo LA, BlueMountain, Sun Capital, HIG, etc. Interviews at every top firm.

FWIW, placement depends on your ability to perform in an interview, not where you work (with some minimum threshold kept in mind). The firms listed above all pass muster and if you can speak to your experiences and demonstrate an understanding of the technicals you'll get a good job.

3/27/15

How does recruiting from LA work? Is there a big disadvantage since the analysts aren't in NYC / close to the headhunters?

3/27/15

All of the major headhunting firms will make 1-2 trips out to Los Angeles to interview candidates.

If you want to end up in NYC you are at a disadvantage logistically but it's not that difficult. I interviewed at two NYC shops but my preference was West Coast so I ended up focusing on SF/LA offices.

3/31/15

It is very doable (first-hand experience with this). This situation highlights the importance of being very proactive with recruiters early on (i.e., actually responding to those emails that start coming in November/December) and making your interests very clear to them. For instance, I told all the recruiters I met with during my initial meetings with them that I was totally fine with being excluded from hearing about PE opportunities in other major cities because I was fully committed to moving to LA. Obviously it helps if you have something to point to, e.g. you're from there originally, family lives there, went to school there, etc. although I can't say not having this will put you at some kind of disadvantage.
It's important to make this clear as early as possible because a lot of the megafunds and larger MM funds in LA focus on local "feeder" bank candidates first (e.g HL Rx, GS, MoCo) before phone screening candidates from SF and NYC. For all you know, they have already gone through multiple rounds of interviews with local candidates before making contact with you (happened with me at a fund I received an offer from). That being said, it's important your recruiters know of your interest early on so they can get your resume in front funds' internal teams earlier in their processes.

3/27/15

Lazard's current first year analyst class consists of appr. 50 analysts across the NY, SF, LA, Chicago, Houston and LA offices. I can't speak for all groups, but can say the Rx and HC analysts consistently place very well. Not all analysts have their eyes set on traditional megafunds, which is partly due to some of the more complex types of modeling and analyses analysts regularly come across at Lazard. For instance, the entire class of first year Rx analysts has already lined up solid buyside jobs, but they are all going to highly regarded distressed debt type shops. I have heard that the M&T guys who sit in NY's TMT group also do really pretty well with recruiting.

When it comes to competing against "feeder" banks like MoCo (especially in LA), I can say from experience it is very possible. Sure some other candidates may be inherently "teed up" better to shops than others due to relationships and track records of taking analysts from certain banks, but that doesn't mean you are out of the running.

Lazard's rank and reputation varies a bit from industry to industry. For instance, it's HC group is a top-notch practice that has had a phenomenal track record the past three years. That being said, it's one of the toughest groups to work for in terms of hours and finding time to balance work with outside life and recruiting efforts.

Happy to discuss more of this via PM.

3/27/15

This is an accurate post. Keep in mind many first years flame out and opt to avoid PE recruiting altogether. I recall a member of my analyst class was obsessed with landing a job at Apollo during training until 7 months in dropped out to work at a well-known tech firm. This is/was very common.

FWIW megafund work can be very very similar to IB at 2x the pay rate (the compelling part of the offer). After 9 months into your first year the realization that you'll still be working 80-90 hours a week / weekends essentially turning internal memos / decks well into your mid-late 20s can push you in a different direction very quickly.

5/26/15

.

3/31/15

Classy. Second year analysts at our office last year made $160k all-in pre-tax. One left for a megafund and is making $300k all-in doing more/less the same work at a higher rank for higher pay - not talking about IB analyst vs. PE analyst entry-level. Nothing about my statement is factually incorrect and the overarching point is: megafund work can be more/less the same as what you were doing before just at 2x the pay rate. This isn't controversial and I'm surprised it engendered such a reaction.

3/31/15

rionexpa:

Classy. Second year analysts at our firm last year made $160k all-in pre-tax. One left for a megafund and is making $300k all-in doing more/less the same work at a higher rank for higher pay - not talking about IB analyst vs. PE analyst entry-level. This isn't controversial and I'm surprised it engendered such a reaction.

This is more-or-less accurate. I know that first year associates at MF's will pull 250-275k pre-tax (I know this for Apollo in particular).

3/31/15

Megafunds generally pay more than $250k. However, as associate direct promotes (2 years as an analyst vs 3) become more popular the pay gap will shrink. A first year associate in M&A can make over $250k, which is more than what many PE funds pay first year associates. In those cases, someone who goes from banking to PE may actually take a pay cut

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3/27/15

Can someone talk about the pay at these shops? For instance, Lazard ($6.9b market cap / $2.3bn revenue) , Evercore ($1.9bn market cap / $900m revenue), Moelis ($600m market cap / $500m revenue) and Greenhill ($1.1bn market cap / $275m revenue) are all public companies. Perella and Centerview are still private, Centerview in particular paying extremely well and doing great stuff in biotech (the Qatalyst of healthcare?). Obviously the public guys, while still somewhat small (except for Lazard), pay quite a bit on stock.

Would be interesting to compare rev / employee as well I guess.

3/27/15

Nobody at the analyst / junior associate level is getting paid in stock. Comp changes quite a bit once the firm goes public given investors want to see comp ratios, SG&A margins, etc. LAZ has generally underpaid Moelis but I'm not sure how Moelis comp will change with the IPO. My guess is it comes down over time, how quickly I don't know.

3/28/15

rionexpa:

Nobody at the analyst / junior associate level is getting paid in stock. Comp changes quite a bit once the firm goes public given investors want to see comp ratios, SG&A margins, etc. LAZ has generally underpaid Moelis but I'm not sure how Moelis comp will change with the IPO. My guess is it comes down over time, how quickly I don't know.

I'm at one of the public firms whose name is thrown around in this topic and I can confirm that we receive RSUs on top of the regular comp.

3/28/15

Interesting. I suppose I stand corrected. Very surprising TBH - I don't believe that is common.

3/27/15

Per rionex's comment, as a senior analyst or first year associate you've usually built up some goodwill at your firm. you may even get an analyst under you and should get first dibs on interesting projects. Many 2nd/3rd years who to PE have to go through realization that they're (again) the most junior kids at the new firm. Granted they throw some work to banks, but not all of it. Internal memos, comps, basic dumb research are all expected with little help. Plus for every target your PE firm is thinking about buying, they kick the tires on 5-10 others, and they kick pretty deep. % deal completion is similar to banking. Work is more meaningful though.

3/27/15

so according to filings Evercore employs like 1300 people (70 MDs but also a bunch of research folks), Greenhill employs 300 (75 MDs), Moelis employs 400 people (100 MDs), and Lazard (1000 employees, 140 MDs).

3/28/15

how would you rank EBs in terms of exit ops?

3/29/15

It's pretty stupid to ask for a hard ranking of the EBs when that topic has been explored in so much depth in previous posts. Seriously, if you're choosing between Evercore and Lazard and decide based on what somebody tells you in a simple ranking on WSO, that's dumb as hell.

3/31/15

This is secondhand info but apparently Lazard placement was very strong last year. For what it's worth, placements had multiple people going to megafunds including (but not limited to) Apollo, KKR, TPG and CD&R. It was a lot better than the past few years where they had limited MF placements.

I have no idea as to why they weren't doing so well before, or why they did well last year.

5/26/15

.

3/31/15

Here is what I am saying:

Year 1 Banking: $130 - 140k
Year 2 Banking: $150k - 160k

Contract expires June 30...move to MF as...

1st Year Associate: $250 - $300k

So upper bound of next year over lower bound of current year is 2x. What leads you to believe this is made up? Ares, Oaktree, etc. are paying their first year associates $250 - $300k...

5/26/15

.

3/31/15

I laid out my math...I assume $80 base + $70-$80 bonus for 2nd year for a $150k - $160k range (this is where our firm came in last year...understanding base salaries have been raised the mix of salary and base will change). Taking the upper bound for MF pay at $300k (for a specific firm in this case) over the lower bound of 2nd year pay and you get to a max pay increase of 2x. I'd conjecture most kids look at their expected ranges and cling to the upper bound so I don't think this is a wild way to frame it. Obviously if you wanted to be more "precise" you'd look at the average and conclude in my example $275 / $155 would be more appropriate. But the point of my original statement was to say: the work can be more/less the same for greater higher pay.

Also, I'm not sure why you're extrapolating out the relationship into future years? What information have I presented that is "made up" as you claim?

5/26/15

.

3/31/15

My original statement was: "FWIW megafund work can be very very similar to IB at 2x the pay rate (the compelling part of the offer). After 9 months into your first year the realization that you'll still be working 80-90 hours a week / weekends...." Given the above math in the context of this statement the point is that despite making up to 2x as much (using the math provided and assuming MF - which again was assumed in the original statement) you will still be working similar hours and doing similar work. How is this made up? Like I said before, this isn't some controversial statement.

5/26/15

bliat

--
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."

5/26/15

Evercore / Perella / Greenhill

BX / Lazard / Centerview / Qatalyst / Moelis

5/26/15
5/26/15

Who cares

They're all basically the same from an analysts perspective

Seriously, rank is stupid

5/26/15

Agreed. Do y'all really think that working at Greenhill vs. Lazard is going to make a difference? All of these banks get deals. You will get experience. It is what you make of it, no matter where you go. Do well and you'll have exit ops. Suck and you won't.

5/26/15

Drexel Burnham Lambert

5/26/15
JohnnyCage:

Drexel Burnham Lambert

Guys, please rank these firms, or split them into tiers, thanks.

5/26/15
vddr:
JohnnyCage:

Drexel Burnham Lambert

Guys, please rank these firms, or split them into tiers, thanks.

Dude, you are an obvious shill for the OP, so stop it. You are wasting out time man.

5/26/15

just wondering, all the BB's are always ranked.

--
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."

5/26/15

I have to say... there may not be a difference in terms of pay or future opps in finance straight out of banking... but I REALLY do believe that Lazard has a substantial advantage over the other boutiques in terms of getting into business school. Good business schools respect the name Lazard - it's been around for a while and they've been making people work 120 hours a week since like the 1800's and shit... if you got through an analyst program there you can pull your weight and even people outside the industry (like admissions people) seem to know that.

i never worked at lazard or any other elite boutique, but I have looked at a shit-ton of resume books from harvard, stanford, wharton, INSEAD, LSE, etc... and lazard shows up a lot amongst the people at these schools where as you don't run into the others as much (Blackstone, but not as much the bankers as the PE guys - who obviously got to harvard etc. with regularity)

5/26/15

Good business schools barely give a damn where you worked (MBB might be the lone exception). They care what you did, what your essays say, and how you carry yourself.

And even if they did, Evercore is stronger than Lazard.

5/26/15
Cartwright:

Good business schools barely give a damn where you worked (MBB might be the lone exception). They care what you did, what your essays say, and how you carry yourself.

And even if they did, Evercore is stronger than Lazard.

I'd agree with a lot of this. Certainly the bit about essays being more important and all that... perhaps people at Lazard generally write good essays (could be traced back to the specific undergrad schools they choose from and all that).

I can't agree with you on the Evercore thing. If I asked a bunch of businessman in high positions throughout the country (not in banking/finance), I bet only 60-70% would know Evercore... 99.9% Lazard.

5/26/15

What are these places being ranked on? This is why ranking threads suck.

Pay? Private equity exit opportunities? Business school exit opportunities? Corporate development exit opportunities? Hedge fund exit opportunities? The overall experience? Work/life balance? Culture?

Each person has their own mix of preferences from the above. Hell, they might care how the office looks too.

If you compound all of the above stuff, I think my preferences would be as follows:

  1. Blackstone (top prestige, high involvement in large transactions, staffing on restructuring and real estate deals and access to world-class PE professionals)
  2. Lazard (strong history, great league table presence for smaller firm, M&A/Restructuring but you have to focus on an industry, like the people but hours suck)
  3. Perella (very prestigious, incredible people to work with, staffing on all kinds of things and probably the best HBS/Wharton/Stanford placement of the lot)
    4a. Greenhill (not too many deals, but exposure to all industries and M&A/restructuring mix)
    4b. Centerview (little consumer products/retail heavy focus, but great work environment)
    4c. Evercore (tremendous in M&A/restructuring and established presence)
  4. Moelis (up and coming, doing well but utterly terrible work hours and too much sell-side M&A in the mix)
  5. Qatalyst (too up and coming)

Seriously, though, people should try to reserve ranking threads for after they have offers and when they can articulate all of the things they want to consider as they make their decision.

5/26/15

Tell your mother that Lloyd and I say the same.

5/26/15

beef in LA much?...relax boys, both of you have large cocks.

5/26/15

What is the point of this thread? Are you considering offers?

5/26/15

As someone who superday'd at almost all of those places (and works at one of these firms), I would say that there is definitely a consensus view on the "prestige" of those places. However, I think you guys are also considering work environment/hours, which I don't think really affect prestige.

From a pure "prestige" (which I understand is subjective) point of view

Tier
1: BX, Lazard (about equal in restructuring, but the top M&A groups at Lazard > BX M&A)
2. GHL, EVR (both these firms have great cultures and analysts don't get killed, so its not uncommon to see people go to these places over BX/Laz), Moelis LA (west coast lifestyle, lower cost of living, awesome MDs)
3. Qatalyst (if you're set on tech, this and MoLA are probably in tier 1 for you), Moelis NY, PWP

And I honestly know nothing about Centerview

Feel free to disagree and flame, but talking to a bunch of people at all these firms, these are the firms they each compared themselves to.

5/26/15

Moelis LA is seriously "west coast lifestyle"?

5/26/15

As in...driving, decent sized apartments, yes. For people who are from Cali/the South, this is a huge selling factor.

5/26/15

ok, i thought you meant more relaxed hours

4/13/15

Yeah Rionex is right but maybe a more fair way would be to compare with a 3rd year analyst pay raise in mind.

and then to add to that A-to-As partially catch up. It just takes them an extra year. For people who don't like to wait MF is a great option to get more money asap.

From a quality of work / life balance perspective though, I would honestly say that senior analysts / junior associates at BBs (and definitely EBs and MMs) actually have a better lifestyle since they're more experienced and efficient and are more tenured in the organization vs. 1) obviously more junior analysts who're there to crank (remember - if you go to a MF you're like an analyst again), 2) MBA associates who crank because they don't know what they're doing.

Analysts who stay to become associates are like the "darlings" of banks and always get prioritized over new people. In a career where loyalty is hard to come by, it is actually handsomely rewarded with better projects and work-life balance.

5/26/15

There's no strict GPA cutoff, yet everyone I know who works at an EB all have 3.6+ GPA with the majority having 3.9+. Unless you go to a target it's very difficult to break into an EB without a very strong GPA.

Robert Clayton Dean: What is happening?
Brill: I blew up the building.
Robert Clayton Dean: Why?
Brill: Because you made a phone call.

5/26/15

There are always exceptions to the GPA rule.

Disclaimer for the Kids: Any forward-looking statements are solely for informational purposes and cannot be taken as investment advice. Consult your moms before deciding where to invest.

5/26/15

Always exceptions to GPA rule as captainkoolaid pointed out. For example, a 3.0 from a semi-target that did an SA at BB IBD or even top MM IBD will get AT LEAST a phone call

5/26/15

Thanks so much for the input.

At a target with OCR, do you guys think it's better to keep a 3.5 on or off the resume? Considering they only give out like 20 or so first rounds. Keep in mind I'd say I have fairly strong internship experience

5/26/15

leaving out your GPA off the resume will result in an auto-ding. without it, the perception is

5/26/15

leaving out your GPA off the resume will result in an auto-ding. without it, the perception is

5/26/15

How about online applications for these EBs? By FT recruiting next year I'll have a BB S&T SA and MM IBD internship on my resume, 3.9 GPA from top public, but non-target school. Would I get a first round?

5/26/15

wilder01:

How about online applications for these EBs? By FT recruiting next year I'll have a BB S&T SA and MM IBD internship on my resume, 3.9 GPA from top public, but non-target school. Would I get a first round?

Network, network, network.

Robert Clayton Dean: What is happening?
Brill: I blew up the building.
Robert Clayton Dean: Why?
Brill: Because you made a phone call.

5/26/15

What school do u go to?

5/26/15

Univ. of South Carolina-Moore School of Business. Finance and Econ. Major Minor in Spanish

5/26/15

1. Remove personal (specific) info from this website. With just a little bit of research, I already know who you are. You initially had your name as your username, I'm glad you changed that.
2. I personally know 4 individuals who made into bulge brackets - 2 of them through their summer internships at boutiques, 1 from her internship at a F500, and the last one from an internship in Big 4 Audit. They all had good GPA's, but came from non-targets. So yes, it is possible to get into a BB from WF WBR.
3. Just because you have networked doesn't mean its a lead. You have to be able to leverage that relationship into and interview and ultimately (hopefully) a FT gig.
4. There are several threads discussing boutique vs. BB benefits - use the search bar.

Good Luck :)

5/26/15

@"Creamofthecrop" IMO from my time networking/recruiting the standards for hiring at Elite Boutiques is on a similar plain to the standards at Bulge Brackets.

With your experience, however, it seems like with a little bit of networking you should be able to get a solid number of interviews at "non-elite" boutique and middle market banks where there are alumni from your school. Many of these banks despite being "non-elite" will still be an excellent place to start a career and put you ahead of many of your peers (except of course for those at more prestigious banks).

Also, it sounds like you have gotten into the networking groove pretty well, DO NOT STOP. If you are recruiting for full time it could take 5 good connections to land an offer or it could take 75. A few analysts at good boutiques and one higher up aint shit! That was harsh, and honestly it is a good start, but why limit yourself? Keep networking until you have a job, and then once you get one, network some more.

Also, if VC is your main goal, "less competitive" firms might actually offer better options. Sure, it might be necessary to work in tech banking at GS or MS to land at Sequoia, but most VC firms are not the same. There are a ton of "non-elite" boutique banks serving the growth tech company. You mentioned that recruiting can be sporadic. For the BB and EB banks of the world recruiting is not at all sporadic. For the smaller firms recruiting is very sporadic. Luckily, if you want to go to VC and you got to a boutique bank that serves the lower middle market and strictly sells venture backed portfolio companies, steps in for Series C funding, etc. you will be working with a ton of VC firms and after a year or two might just get offered a job. If not at least you will have a wealth of knowledge on how the sell off of venture backed companies works.

I'm not much further in the game than you, but went through a lot of this recently. Sounds like you're doing a lot of stuff right. Learn as much as you can and keep pushing.

5/26/15

If your interest is VC, maybe it makes sense to start at whatever VC you can get into right now. As humblepie stated, it's all about networking, knowledge, and experience.

I have a tender spot in my heart for cripples, bastards, and broken things

5/26/15

you dont want anything to do with them, you could get a job with them without ever having gone to high school .

5/26/15
manafinancial:

you dont want anything to do with them, you could get a job with them without ever having gone to high school .

lol, what? all their analysts in new york went to either wharton, harvard, or nyu.

Definitely not an "elite" boutique though.

5/26/15

But the analyst profiles are Wharton, Harvard, NYU for the NY office?

5/26/15

Some of their analysts have pretty shitty backgrounds.

5/26/15

Hm like what for instance?

5/26/15

One of them has a degree in design... although my mom does, too, and went to the Street. Of course she got an MBA from a top school.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

5/26/15

All the less qualified analysts seem to be from their indian office in Sikkim. Which of course raises the question of, why the fuck do they have an office in sikkim?

5/26/15

uh..they are definitely NOT on the " elite boutique" ladder compared to Evercore, centerview, etc, if you somehow define that as a category

5/26/15
eric1025:

uh..they are definitely NOT on the " elite boutique" ladder compared to Evercore, centerview, etc, if you somehow define that as a category

He's trolling. You should see the other threads he's started.

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